ex Muslim Converts Storm Catholic Churches

[desertvixen]

@feministxtian I'm aware of their football skills (although I went to one of the magnet high schools, so football wasn't as big a deal for us).

However, a little time with the Google explains why I thought it had closed.  My SIL is a graduate, and I don't know if she realized that they MOVED into what looks like swanky digs over on Hualapai, when she was telling me it was closed.  My parents gave some thought to sending me there in the 90s, but we don't have that much money.

I left over general dissatisfaction on several issues, including the sex abuse one, but I have to confess that my turning point was when I was told that if I paid for an annulment, they would make up a BS reason that our pre-cana wasn't good enough.  (The military archdiocese requires payment, although I understand not all dioceses do so.)

I miss Vegas. 

[feministxtian]

Yeah...my HS did that too...moved from the old, decrepit building into the shiny, new, multi-million dollar building.

We're going to be changing churches when we move...since we're moving from right around Blue Diamond and Durango to Cheyenne and Decatur...Too damn far to drive. There have been a few fundies that have visited our church, they usually don't come back. Something about the contemporary music and the ashtrays around . It's also gay-friendly. The "new" church is the one that planted our current church...so same sort of thing.

[desertvixen]

I'm familiar with that area - my dad lives up on Craig and Decatur (I remember both of those roads being much, much smaller).

Good luck with the move!

[CyborgKin]

Well this is a refreshing twist!

[feministxtian]

58 minutes ago, desertvixen said:

I'm familiar with that area - my dad lives up on Craig and Decatur (I remember both of those roads being much, much smaller).

Good luck with the move!

I know exactly where that is! Small world

[CrackerbackJocks]

16 hours ago, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

I would think that in Vegas they would be able to find people participating in much more grievous activities than a Catholic Church service. 

I know, right?  That just floors me.  

[Curious]

12 hours ago, doggie said:

If God only made a manual that people could follow.

I see what you did there

[Cleopatra7]

18 hours ago, princessmahina said:

I'll never understand why so many other Christians hate Catholicism so much. 

It goes back to the Reformation belief that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, worships Mary, and generally corrupted "pure Christianity." This is why the Duggars and their ilk look down on Catholicism. In the 19th and early 20th century, there were also racial concerns about Catholicism, since it was believed that an influx of Catholics, especially the Irish and Italians, was weakening America's "racial stock" as well as a belief that Catholics were inherently unable to be good citizens because they belonged to a group with such authoritarian ideas (Google Syllabus of Errors and you'll see what I mean). In a way, Catholics were back then what Muslims are today.

[BackseatMom]

16 hours ago, doggie said:

nothing worse then the newly converted. so full of god and shit sometimes. They are so full of the holly ghost hey have no room for reason or real compassion.

This is a little hateful. Coverts span the gamut like everyone else.

On a separate note, things like bad homosexual policies and no birth control are not why fundies hate catholics. If anything, that should bring them closer together.

[PregnantPornStar]

19 hours ago, princessmahina said:

I'll never understand why so many other Christians hate Catholicism so much. 

I don't know that many modern Christians even know why. They may have random reasons, but I don't think there has been a whole lot of thought going into it. 

When I say this, I don't even mean to be insulting, just an observation. I was raised in a Catholic family (not fundie at all), but I am an atheist now. Religion is a topic I like to avoid in military communities, but when it does get brought up to the point of me sharing I am an atheist, people are often shocked, even horrified. They will ask me why and the discussion often goes back to how I was raised. When that happens, without fail, it is like a light bulb lights up and they have this wonderful "Aha" moment and say "That's why!! You just need to go to a non-Catholic Church!!! Come with me!!!"

 

 

[Iamhispurity]

I guess it angers them that the Catholic Church proclaims THEY are the one true church. Can´t have more than one, right?

[samurai_sarah]

1 hour ago, Cleopatra7 said:

It goes back to the Reformation belief that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, worships Mary, and generally corrupted "pure Christianity." This is why the Duggars and their ilk look down on Catholicism. In the 19th and early 20th century, there were also racial concerns about Catholicism, since it was believed that an influx of Catholics, especially the Irish and Italians, was weakening America's "racial stock" as well as a belief that Catholics were inherently unable to be good citizens because they belonged to a group with such authoritarian ideas (Google Syllabus of Errors and you'll see what I mean). In a way, Catholics were back then what Muslims are today.

Just to add a little (or a lot) to that:

The trouble started in England, mainly. Continental Europe kinda, sorta settled its religious differences in 1648 with the Peace of Westphalia. "Cuius regio, eius religio" was what they settled on. Latin for "whose realm, his religion" i.e.: if your local ruler was Protestant, you were Protestant. If he was Catholic, you were Catholic. Not much in the way of religious freedom, and one of the reasons why groups of people left for what was to become the US.

But on the whole, it kind of, sort of worked. Mostly kind of, because religious conflicts continued flaring up. But what worked in continental Europe had no chance of ever working in Britain. Mainly, because Catholicism was the religion of insurrection, rebellion and terrorism.

It started before Guy Fawkes tried to blow up parliament. In Ireland, you had Catholic Irish pitched against Protestant British settlers from the 1500s (mainly) onwards. No side is blameless. They all committed horrible atrocities against each other. The salient point is that the -then- English crown was Protestant and constantly fighting Spanish (read: Catholic) attempts to conquer and regain England for Catholicism. And obviously, for gain.

Ireland, being a strategically good base to enter England, was a constant threat. Especially, since the Spanish had papal backing and the native Irish were Catholic. During the 17th century, they repeatedly backed Catholic pretenders to the crown of England.

In Scotland, things were even messier. I could try to explain what went on, but that's more than anyone wants to read on an internet message board. Suffice to say that Catholics were instrumental in rebellions against the crown. One of the major conflicts of the late 17th to mid 18th century was trying to reinstate a Catholic pretender to the throne, after England had created laws to prevent a Catholic from inheriting the crown.

The distrust of Catholics didn't remain in England, Scotland and Ireland. It travelled to "the colonies". Catholics were considered the mindless followers of Rome, who put the Pope above their king/queen and any other authority. And they clearly could not be trusted.

At the same time, the Vatican did use its hold to further its own interests. What many people forget these days is that the Vatican used to be a big political power-player with its own state. Add religious authority to that, and you've got a potent mix. The Vatican had its own armies, but it could also call upon believers everywhere to defend its interests. 

Protestants of all flavours and varieties were a lesser threat to the English crown. Well, if we disregard Cromwell, but then he was fighting against a Catholic king and...yeah, it's messy.

Today, it doesn't seem very apparent why some Protestant denominations dislike Catholics so much. Religious differences are one reason. Political history is another. The history often falls by the wayside though, and we only feel the effects. Like the distrust for President Kennedy, because he was a Catholic.

Apologies for the novel. This is all very incomplete and rambling. And did I mention "messy"?

[LadyCrow1313]

This is some scary shite. Given the shootings that have been going on as of late, I could just see it escalate, too. And I hope to the Gods that that never happens.

[Gimme a Free RV]

18 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I don't want anyone picking on anyone and I abhor bigotry of all sorts, but I wish someone would get more creative with what random-ass group to hate. Like, I want to see a group of people yelling about how God hates people who don't use headphones on public transportation. Or people who mess up store displays and leave hanging clothes just strewn on the ground near the clothing racks are Satanic.

You know, the "hate" groups that focus on one sin forget that overeating and wanting something that you aren't supposed to have are also sins that God hates. (**joshdugger**cough**)  How about lying (that little white lie that won't hurt anyone) or stealing (PostIt notes, pens, rolls of toilet paper)?  I know that every single one of us is guilty of something listed as a sin in the Bible.  If we weren't, it wouldn't have to be mentioned.

Since deciding to get a divorce, I double-check myself before I inwardly judge someone else's "sinful" life, because I know there are those who judge me for my decision to legally end my marriage.  It's like the saying we've all probably heard:  "When you point a finger at someone, three fingers are pointing back at you."

[Alicja]

the Catholic Church has done some terrible, terrible things. I remember my mom telling me the Catholic Church was even against using condoms in the midst of the HIV/AIDS crisis.

that doesn't mean all Catholics are evil people, however. Our church needs reforming, and lots of it, however.

[desertvixen]

10 hours ago, PregnantPornStar said:

When I say this, I don't even mean to be insulting, just an observation. I was raised in a Catholic family (not fundie at all), but I am an atheist now. Religion is a topic I like to avoid in military communities, but when it does get brought up to the point of me sharing I am an atheist, people are often shocked, even horrified. They will ask me why and the discussion often goes back to how I was raised. When that happens, without fail, it is like a light bulb lights up and they have this wonderful "Aha" moment and say "That's why!! You just need to go to a non-Catholic Church!!! Come with me!!!"

 

 

You are BY FAR not the only one who has had this experience (or the "Catholics aren't REALLY quite Christian" experience) in the military. 

[sawasdee]

@samurai_sarah - Good synopsis (though Charles I was not a Catholic - he was however married to one!). You're right, the distrust of Catholics did endure longer in the UK than in Europe - but today, with the outlier exceptions of Glasgow, and to a lesser extent Liverpool, in mainland UK what religion you are is an irrelevance. In Northern Ireland, however...........anything but an irrelevance.

[Grimalkin]

On December 10, 2015 at 2:46 PM, sawasdee said:

Maybe because their history goes back further than Protestant offshoots, and they have a direct trace to the early history of the church?

Every branch thinks they practice the way the early Christians did.

 

On December 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, nastyhobbitses said:

Do they have nothing better to do than to go harass Catholics? Why can't these knuckleheads channel their new faith into something constructive and useful, like cleaning up a park or volunteering at a soup kitchen?

       It's probably the Catholics manning those soup kitchens and shelters..

[herpderp]

So I've always been curious - how do these rabidly anti-Catholic folks feel about the Orthodox Church? Or do they just forget it exists? 

[Coconut Flan]

Many of them don't know it exists or even if they know it's there they have no idea what it is.

I'm Eastern Orthodox and it confuses or scares the local proselytizers when they find out.  They run if I offer to pray for them. 

[tropaka]

They get confused about Eastern Rites Catholics too (Ukrainian in my husband's case)....think many orthodox practices yet they're technically under Rome.

[Mama Mia]

I know quite a few people who were raised Catholic, lost their way in life as teens/ young adults ( severely lost, like full on addict and criminal lifestyle - not Duggar " oh we sinned because we kissed " lost) -- and became born -again evangelicals . Several of them also went extremely anti- Catholic - which obviously caused a great deal of conflict with their families. Especially the ones who were actual devout, involved Catholics instead of just Christmas Eve cultural Catholics.  They became so intense about EVERYTHING. None of them reached the fundie levels we see here. But one guy in particular had so much fervor that I could see him doing this. Talking to him right after he became a  born - again zealot  was like talking to someone who  was  drugged. Very, very strange. And he would rail  against his mom , who was a very devout Catholic. 

[EmainMacha]

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 2:31 AM, sawasdee said:

@samurai_sarah - Good synopsis (though Charles I was not a Catholic - he was however married to one!). You're right, the distrust of Catholics did endure longer in the UK than in Europe - but today, with the outlier exceptions of Glasgow, and to a lesser extent Liverpool, in mainland UK what religion you are is an irrelevance. In Northern Ireland, however...........anything but an irrelevance.

Oh yes. Even now in Northern Ireland over 90% of people live in housing estates were their denomination is in the majority i.e. Catholics in mainly Catholic estates and likewise for Protestants. I was one of the few who did not- only Catholic family in our part of the estate. It was 'lovingly' explained to me from about the age of 5 by a couple of neighbours why I wasn't a Christian. To this day people who insist on referring to Christian as exclusively Protestant really annoy me. (I should add most of my neighbours were live and let live - or 'dead on' as we say in Northern Ireland)

[Grimalkin]

1 hour ago, EmainMacha said:

Oh yes. Even now in Northern Ireland over 90% of people live in housing estates were their denomination is in the majority i.e. Catholics in mainly Catholic estates and likewise for Protestants. I was one of the few who did not- only Catholic family in our part of the estate. It was 'lovingly' explained to me from about the age of 5 by a couple of neighbours why I wasn't a Christian. To this day people who insist on referring to Christian as exclusively Protestant really annoy me. (I should add most of my neighbours were live and let live - or 'dead on' as we say in Northern Ireland)

.           My husband was born in England but both his parents are Irish. I remember attending a wedding with him early in our marriage where he suddenly leaned over and asked me if we were In a Protestant church and he whisperd Protestant like it was a bad word. He is not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but it struck me how deeply ingrained that separation is.

[EmainMacha]

10 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

.           My husband was born in England but both his parents are Irish. I remember attending a wedding with him early in our marriage where he suddenly leaned over and asked me if we were In a Protestant church and he whisperd Protestant like it was a bad word. He is not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but it struck me how deeply ingrained that separation is.

When I was 6 I fell out with my friend who had just made her First Holy Communion because she told me I was a Protestant because I hadn't made mine yet. I told on her to her mum who had to explain that wasn't the case as I was very upset. So yes, ingrained from early on. If you'd told 6 yr old  (or even 16 yr old ) me that I'd  be married to a Protestant- background,  non-Irish  guy now I wouldn't have believed you.