Who will watch the special?

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I am glad to hear that Jill is criticizing Josh- maybe this means she is starting to wake up to the fact that she is just being used by JB to shill the old party line.  

[Jana814]

1 hour ago, Swamptribe said:

They probably are 'featuring' Anna in the specials because they're afraid no one will tune in otherwise.

I think people really want to hear from Anna.  

[LadyCrow1313]

11 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I think people really want to hear from Anna.  

I know I do, & it'd be nice if it was honest. I have a feeling, though, that even w/all the crap this woman's been through that what she says will be heavily censored. It'd be amazing if she could come on here & let it all out, uncensored & 100% real. I don't think many of us would think less of her for doing so.

[Four is Enough]

I won't watch, but am anxiously awaiting Buzzard's recap. B deserves booze for this!

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

And THAT is where most of my schadenfreude over the Ashley Madison news came from. Sure, there's the fundie hypocrisy and all that jazz, but what really made me cackle was imagining how Jill and Jessa felt, because those two smug twits went on national tv to defend their brother and reprimand everyone who thought that a teen molesting his sisters was a big deal. And then they took part in that special on child molestation, and Miss Constant Vacant Smile Jill looked seriously pissed at having to be there, sure that she already new all she needed to know. I hope she really did "cry a lot of tears" when she heard about AM.

I don't condone what they did, however I also don't blame them for the things they believe(d). They were brainwashed to blame themselves and other women for these crimes, and they were likely highly pressured (if not outright forced) by their parents (who still have a LOT of control over every aspect of their lives) to do the interviews and say what they said. Also, both girls had been married for under a year when the first scandal broke, it's not like they'd been out of the house and away from harmful influences enough to even begin to receive the professional help necessary to reverse their brainwashing. 

I blame JB and Michelle 100%, I am glad (in a way) that they were made to eat their words about Josh, but I just can't bring myself to take pleasure in all the pain and embarrassment the girls have gone though on his account. 

40 minutes ago, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

I am glad to hear that Jill is criticizing Josh- maybe this means she is starting to wake up to the fact that she is just being used by JB to shill the old party line.  

I doubt that she'll jump from criticizing Josh for lying to and deceiving the family to JB using her. I mean, she may realize that (or may even already know it), but I doubt it'll be directly related to Josh. I think, if she does end up questioning the family's beliefs, it'll end with her blaming the people who influenced her parents, rather than blaming her parents. 

[Fundie Bunny]

Just to clarify, i have seen the clip, and jilly muffin wasn't blatantly critizing Josh. They threw him under the bus, but not in a blatant way. Again it is not about what josh did, is about how they didn't know the whole story

[Screamapillar]

21 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

I don't condone what they did, however I also don't blame them for the things they believe(d). They were brainwashed to blame themselves and other women for these crimes, and they were likely highly pressured (if not outright forced) by their parents (who still have a LOT of control over every aspect of their lives) to do the interviews and say what they said. Also, both girls had been married for under a year when the first scandal broke, it's not like they'd been out of the house and away from harmful influences enough to even begin to receive the professional help necessary to reverse their brainwashing.

I blame JB and Michelle 100%, I am glad (in a way) that they were made to eat their words about Josh, but I just can't bring myself to take pleasure in all the pain and embarrassment the girls have gone though on his account.

Ever since the first specials, my pet name for Jill has been "Mouthpiece" because of all the kids she's always been the one in the talking heads saying exactly what Mommy and Daddy want to hear. In the Megyn Kelly Interview, Jill came across as being 100% confident that her parents did the right thing with Josh. Because, in her brainwashed mind, how could they not have? It's a hard lesson for her to learn, but maybe she will someday begin to think twice about taking her parents' word as gospel and faithfully repeating what they say. Come on Jill, think for yourself!

[SassyPants]

6 minutes ago, Screamapillar said:

Ever since the first specials, my pet name for Jill has been "Mouthpiece" because of all the kids she's always been the one in the talking heads saying exactly what Mommy and Daddy want to hear. In the Megyn Kelly Interview, Jill came across as being 100% confident that her parents did the right thing with Josh. Because, in her brainwashed mind, how could they not have? It's a hard lesson for her to learn, but maybe she will someday begin to think twice about taking her parents' word as gospel and faithfully repeating what they say. Come on Jill, think for yourself!

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, Jill mentioned she'd be utilizing those same safeguards in her home with regards to Choo-Choo.

Wonder if she'll rethink and revise that plan?

[abseedee]

On 12/8/2015 at 3:27 PM, nst said:

Hell yes - while I do laundry etc  - except for the one on the 20th - I will be in Maui - I don't know if they have TLC  

the snarking will be amazing 

We have TLC in Hawaii but, if you're staying in a hotel  they may not carry this station.

I won't watch but may lurk here and read the recaps.

[JenniferJuniper]

3 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

OMG! Just saw Jill criticize Josh for allowing them to defend him when he was hiding stuff. On Good Morning America just now. Sorry if this is a repeat.

Seriously, Jilly Muffin?

Jill and Jessa were dismissive of Josh fondling them and  their 8 and 5 year old sisters on national TV, but they're pissed at Josh for allowing them to be dismissive of his behavior by not phoning them up to tell them, "Oh, by the way, just between us, I've been banging babes behind Anna's back so you might not want to publicly support me".

I know critical thinking skills are not a Duggar trait, but that's messed up.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

17 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Seriously, Jilly Muffin?

Jill and Jessa were dismissive of Josh fondling them and  their 8 and 5 year old sisters on national TV, but they're pissed at Josh for allowing them to be dismissive of his behavior by not phoning them up to tell them, "Oh, by the way, just between us, I've been banging babes behind Anna's back so you might not want to publicly support me".

I know critical thinking skills are not a Duggar trait, but that's messed up.

Actually, considering their faith's insistent on admitting to everything you've ever even thought of, I'm not surprised that Jill would be upset about a secret, especially one that proves the "rehabilitation" that he went though after "she and her sisters led him astray," and especially considering that he had a "righteous outlet for his lust" (which they were all but guaranteed would keep him on the "right track"), wasn't actually effective, which brings to question whether the attacks were the fault of the victims (which she's always been taught) or the fault of Josh (which would go against what thy were taught). Based on their brainwashing, I can see how Josh cheating on someone like Anna was seen as more distressing than Josh milesting her and her sisters before he was married.

[SilverBeach]

3 hours ago, Hermen-uetics said:

GMA seemed like it was going to be an interview with Anna, but it was only a summary and not an interview - promising candid interviews with Anna on the specials.

There were a few clips I hadn't seen before  and quick visual scenes of talking heads with Jinger, Jana, and one of the boys.   I think the specials are going to be a snooze fest, with each of the 3 specials containing a few clips of Anna so TLC can keep exploiting her for ratings.   

They said they reached out to Josh for the piece and did not hear back.  No wonder he is in "rehab".

 

 

It's not Josh's fake rehab preventing him from responding, it is his childlike refusal to accept responsibility for his actions. Why speak for yourself when mommy, daddy, sister victims, and wifey will speak for you? Why put yourself in the hot seat when they are willing to sit there for you?

Still not watching the specials, was not expecting that segment on GMA this morning.

 

[IreneIssh]

21 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

It's not Josh's fake rehab preventing him from responding, it is his childlike refusal to accept responsibility for his actions. Why speak for yourself when mommy, daddy, sister victims, and wifey will speak for you? Why put yourself in the hot seat when they are willing to sit there for you?

Absolutely! It absolutely astounds me that no one is calling them out on the fact that a 27-year-old man has yet to speak for HIMSELF about what he did. Josh has been completely out of the public eye since May. Instead all of his family members have to speak about what he did? It's so ridiculous! 

[OldFadedStar]

29 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

Actually, considering their faith's insistent on admitting to everything you've ever even thought of, I'm not surprised that Jill would be upset about a secret, especially one that proves the "rehabilitation" that he went though after "she and her sisters led him astray," and especially considering that he had a "righteous outlet for his lust" (which they were all but guaranteed would keep him on the "right track"), wasn't actually effective, which brings to question whether the attacks were the fault of the victims (which she's always been taught) or the fault of Josh (which would go against what thy were taught). Based on their brainwashing, I can see how Josh cheating on someone like Anna was seen as more distressing than Josh milesting her and her sisters before he was married.

I agree with this completely. 

 

I also think they are more angry at the Ashley Madison scandal than they would be about the molestation. In part because of what you mentioned above and then also how long they've known about it. The molestations happened 10-13(?) years ago... they've had time to forgive Josh for that. Regardless of how wrong we may feel that is, in their heads they have forgiven Josh for the molestations it sounds like. They just found out about the Ashley Madison thing. And the AM thing can show that Josh actually is a pervert rather than just maybe a curious teenage boy. It shows repeated patterns. Patterns that now the girls may be thinking about. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I'm not going to watch the specials, but I did DVR Good Morning America, and I watched it just now. GMA sure used a lot of positive descriptions of the Duggars and their "brand". Maybe not quite , but very supportive. Too bad. 

Side note; I agree that Anna looks great with straight hair, but at least her curls weren't the tight, wet look of old. Such a tiny improvement. Sigh.

[JenniferJuniper]

45 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

Actually, considering their faith's insistent on admitting to everything you've ever even thought of, I'm not surprised that Jill would be upset about a secret, especially one that proves the "rehabilitation" that he went though after "she and her sisters led him astray," and especially considering that he had a "righteous outlet for his lust" (which they were all but guaranteed would keep him on the "right track"), wasn't actually effective, which brings to question whether the attacks were the fault of the victims (which she's always been taught) or the fault of Josh (which would go against what thy were taught). Based on their brainwashing, I can see how Josh cheating on someone like Anna was seen as more distressing than Josh milesting her and her sisters before he was married.

Oh, they all definitively think the cheating is worse, even if Anna is partly or mostly to blame.

Point is, did she really expect Josh to tell them not to support him because he had more secrets?

That's just burning stupidity.  

[Jana814]

All I want is to hear from Anna. I wish she would be honest.  Not sure if she will be. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, Jana814 said:

All I want is to hear from Anna. I wish she would be honest.  Not sure if she will be. 

The only way she can be is if her true feelings match the party line, and they may.

It takes real courage to be honest when to do so will hurt the people you love (and regardless of how she feels about Josh or his family I don't think there is a question that she loves her kids and may well see keeping things in house as protecting them*.)  It is also very hard to be honest about things which you find humiliating and while I don't know her it's a fair bet that Smuggar's behavior and the subsequent publicity fall into that category.  

But being honest when there would be fall out takes more than courage - it takes financial security to know your kids will be okay if the monsters cut you off and it takes autonomy and a really solid sense of self to be a truth screamer in spite of the possibility of it costing you the love of everyone but your kids.  

Fundy's espouse a lot of things regarding the importance of family, but their unconditional love comes with more conditions than a rental agreement.  If she has the security to know she will still be loved and valued by her parents regardless of her true feelings I would be very surprised.

 

 

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

I don't condone what they did, however I also don't blame them for the things they believe(d). They were brainwashed to blame themselves and other women for these crimes, and they were likely highly pressured (if not outright forced) by their parents (who still have a LOT of control over every aspect of their lives) to do the interviews and say what they said. Also, both girls had been married for under a year when the first scandal broke, it's not like they'd been out of the house and away from harmful influences enough to even begin to receive the professional help necessary to reverse their brainwashing. 

I blame JB and Michelle 100%, I am glad (in a way) that they were made to eat their words about Josh, but I just can't bring myself to take pleasure in all the pain and embarrassment the girls have gone though on his account. 

I doubt that she'll jump from criticizing Josh for lying to and deceiving the family to JB using her. I mean, she may realize that (or may even already know it), but I doubt it'll be directly related to Josh. I think, if she does end up questioning the family's beliefs, it'll end with her blaming the people who influenced her parents, rather than blaming her parents. 

I don't disagree with any of your points, really(except I'm generally skeptical of the concept of brainwashing), but when it comes down to it, I can only judge people based on what they say and how they act. People believe all sorts of things, and the sincerity of those beliefs isn't enough for me to give a pass when those beliefs are not only wrong but damaging to others. If they day ever comes where the publicly renounce their current beliefs, then I'll be all about supporting them. But until then, and as long as they continue to spout their disgusting faith for profit, I'm going to delight in public humiliation when that humiliation is the direct result of their actions.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

31 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Oh, they all definitively think the cheating is worse, even if Anna is partly or mostly to blame.

Point is, did she really expect Josh to tell them not to support him because he had more secrets?

That's just burning stupidity.  

I don't think that's what she's saying. I think she means that she's upset that he didn't confess to even thinking about cheating on Anna. If you're raised to confess everything that you're thinking or feeling, and you're raised to confess every wrong doing, no matter how small, how can you even have the ability to comprehend the idea of successfully keeping secrets, especially ones of that magnitude, from your family (and church)? She's upset about being made to look like a fool because Josh's failure to confess made her comfortable with saying all his transgressions were behind him and that he was a changed man. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, lascuba said:

People believe all sorts of things, and the sincerity of those beliefs isn't enough for me to give a pass when those beliefs are not only wrong but damaging to others. If they day ever comes where the publicly renounce their current beliefs, then I'll be all about supporting them. But until then, and as long as they continue to spout their disgusting faith for profit, I'm going to delight in public humiliation when that humiliation is the direct result of their actions.

Yes.  Several hundred years ago I read an interview and for the life of me I can't remember who it was with, but I remember this one line:

Quote

"My childhood may have sucked, but it's over."

To be clear I'm not minimizing the effects of a damaging childhood.  I have been very close to people who suffered life long affects from childhood abuse, one of them a circumstance similar in many ways to the what Josh did to his sisters.  So I'm not implying that the moment one turns 18 the slate is wiped clean, abusers absolved of responsibility, and it's all on them now.

But I do believe that once you are an adult and make an decision to bring children into this world it is that adults responsibility to not repeat the cycle of abuse.  Therapy, self-awareness, however you gotta do it but you protect your children from the lifestyle that harmed you.  I get hardwiring and brainwashing to an extent, I truly do, but the buck has to stop somewhere and for me it stops with whomever allows it to continue to harm others.

I am so grateful that i didn't experience this personally, but loving someone so close to me who was the victim of sexual abuse by an older sibling that was brushed off as not serious because apparently unless there is actual penile penetration one isn't allowed to feel violated, afraid, and have it fuck up your relationships with men in a big way...

Anyway, having someone I loved suffer this even once removed I was infuriated by the Megan Kelly interview (I am not going to look up her stupid spelling).  I try to be compassionate and understand that Jill and Jessa are coming from a much different place than I can imagine...but I was angry that if even one kid who is currently being abused took what they said to heart and felt it was no big deal.  Or one kid who was trying to get up the courage to tell someone and get help decided not to because even victims thing it's nothing to get worked up about so what's the point?   

Your right to spout harmful messages ends the second it can be heard by someone it can harm.

I feel compassion for people like Teri Maxwell, Jill, Jessa, Anna...and everyone who was raised to believe their input and autonomy doesn't matter and they need to sacrifice themselves for their "greater good."  Fine - if that's how they want to live but they have no right to sacrifice the lives of their children at that alter.  None.  

I loved my parents (who have passed) and I love my siblings more than I can express...but if any had presented a threat to my kids ...done.  From the second I became a mother he trumped everyone and everything else and nothing mattered more than protecting him, and later my other kids.  My job was to keep them happy, healthy, and safe and to get them to adulthood intact with the tools they need to live happy and productive lives.  

This is their job, too.  Teri failed miserably and I don't believe she can ever repay the debt she owes her children for the neglect.  But Jill, Jessa, and Anna can still make choices to give their kids the security and protection they deserve.

 

[pumpkie0]

so now they are angry and feel dupped why because their new shows may not get the ratings?  Because people were still saying they didn't want to see them?  I don't believe this for a minute he will be welcomed back in they are only changing their tunes to save these specials

[Pandora Spocks]

I probably will watch, if I am home. Don't care much about the show itself, but I really enjoy the group snark that occurs. Buzzard, I hereby bequeathe you a virtual bottle of the spirits of your choice that your mad recap skills may be fortified. 

[OodOnTheLoo]

On December 9, 2015 at 7:27 AM, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

I am glad to hear that Jill is criticizing Josh- maybe this means she is starting to wake up to the fact that she is just being used by JB to shill the old party line.  

But surely this IS the new party line.  No way the girls had honest talking heads.  You can be sure TLC and JimBoob signed off on how to make the girls seem more sympathetic than on the FoX interview.

even Amy wasn't allowed to criticize Josh for molestation but both her and pickle king have publically shamed him.  For me it's more evidence that cheating is worse than molestation I these communities.

 

 

[lascuba]

26 minutes ago, OodOnTheLoo said:

But surely this IS the new party line.  No way the girls had honest talking heads.  You can be sure TLC and JimBoob signed off on how to make the girls seem more sympathetic than on the FoX interview.

even Amy wasn't allowed to criticize Josh for molestation but both her and pickle king have publically shamed him.  For me it's more evidence that cheating is worse than molestation I these communities.

 

 

Exactly. They're never going to admit that they're wrong to defend child molestation, to imply that all boys will molest their sisters if proper "safeguards" aren't in place. They're angry because they insisted in the Fox interview that Josh was a changed man, and, because in their twisted worldview child molestation is a sexual sin no worse than porn or marital infidelity, they realized they were proven wrong.

They need to be angriest at themselves over that Fox interview. Defending their brother who presumably stopped molesting his sisters when he was still a teen  was not what made them look as bad as they did. But they lack the awareness for that. Far easier to blame the obvious bad guy.

Edited: I don't mean to imply that his actions as a teen weren't awful, but that--if it truly stopped when he was a teen and if the "therapy" he received actually helped--Jill and Jessa wanting to defend him publicly doesn't sound unreasonable to me.