Tampa Bay: Breast Feeding Post Goes Viral

[roddma]

This opinion may not be popular, but I feel there's double standard here. IIt reminds me of how certain Fundies' are oh so cautious about their modesty before being pregnant, then start wearing tighter clothes after the baby bump. Why is it ok after pregnancy to wear skin tight clothes and pop out a boob in public, but yet you 'slut- shaming' as a non-pregnant women? It also says she's anti-vax.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/zephyrhills-mom-goes-viral-after-posting-breastfeeding-photo-on-facebook/2256503

[Jeebusismycopilot]

This opinion may not be popular, but I feel there's double standard here. IIt reminds me of how certain Fundies' are oh so cautious about their modesty before being pregnant, then start wearing tighter clothes after the baby bump. Why is it ok after pregnancy to wear skin tight clothes and pop out a boob in public, but yet you 'slut- shaming' as a non-pregnant women? It also says she's anti-vax.
 

I don't see where this woman has slut shamed anyone. I also don't really know what her being anti vaxx has to do with breastfeeding in public. She's also not a fundie from what I can tell in that article anyway, so I am not sure how this is a double standard. 

I do think one reason some of the Fundie girls have been more modest before pregnancy and less so afterwards, is the fact that they no longer live under their parents roof. They are living with their husbands and exploring boundaries

and learning more about how others live. Alyssa Bates seems to be a good example of this. From what I understand, her parents have no problem with her less modest dress now that she is married etc but when she is home visiting,  she abides by the rule in their home.  

These girls have never had freedom from their parents before. They haven't had the opportunity to try to push the boundaries and adopt a new way of dress that is comfortable and fun and they are learning as they grow.  They really are still just girls.  

 

 

[Shadoewolf]

I got into a debate on this on Yahoo when it first appeared. The general concensus  was sure, go ahead and nurse in public but be discreet.  There are plenty of ways to do it and plenty of cute nursing tops that don't require a full boob to be hanging out everywhere. This woman knew exactly what she was doing (some even suggested that it was done purposely in the hope the restaurant would ask her to leave or move to a different location so then she could sue)  and she was just waiting for someone to react. Sadly, action like this does more to hurt the cause than help it.

[foreign fundie]

I can think of a few reasons. Maybe showing off a baby belly is emphasizing how Godly you are to have these kids. Maybe you feel pregnant/ nursing women are not sexy so can't defraud a man. I know that though super modest normally, I had no problem getting my boobs out in public, because for me they were more like udders at that point and I could not imagine a guy desiring my boobs when a baby was sucking them. Also I found giving birth with you lying around naked and all those people seeing your private parts, kind of moves your boundries. 

Edited to say I would not show more flesh than I had to in order to nurse. But babies have a habit of letting go at unexpected moments so you can't always help people seeing more than you/they like.

[JillyO]

I'm honestly not even sure what you want to talk about now. If breastfeeding without a cover in public is okay? Double standards in fundie modesty when pregnant vs. not pregnant? Slut-shaming? Anti-vaxxers?

[Fundie Bunny]

I see nothing wrong with it. But i am from a country where everyone can be topless in the beach and somehow people are respectful and don't stare, so i probably don't know shit.

[sawasdee]

I see nothing wrong with it. But i am from a country where everyone can be topless in the beach and somehow people are respectful and don't stare, so i probably don't know shit.

Suddenly saw that an upvote might look as though I was agreeing that you don't know shit In fact was agreeing that topless is no big deal on most of Europe's beaches!

[polecat]

I don't see the slut-shaming here. 

When you breastfeed, you just sort of get used to having them hanging out all the time.  I got to where I could really quickly and easily whip it out and latch my kids on before people could even blink.  She's showing more than I would when I nursed, but  people have different comfort levels.  I'd wear a loose-fitting top with a tank underneath it because nursing tops never fit right (I'm extremely busty with an h cup when NOT nursing). But hey, whatever gets the baby fed. 

(I even checked out her FB page and still couldn't find any slut-shaming. Do you have a link to whatever you're referencing?)

[HearMeRoar]

Being an anti-vaxer, does not automatically make you a fundie. I have plenty of crunchy, non-vaxing friends, that are most definitely not fundie. They all have different levels of modesty when nursing.  They run the gamut from always using a nursing cover, to just popping a boob out there! I can understand the point that you are trying to get across, but honestly, this article has very little, if anything, to do with it.

[formergothardite]

I don't really understand what we are supposed to be discussing here? 

[PennySycamore]

I do think moms should breastfeed in whatever manner they are comfortable.  If they need to cover up, then cover up.  If they are comfortable with uncovering their whole breast, then that's great.  Some breastfeeding advocates postulate that breastfeeding won't become the cultural norm until more mothers nurse openly, without trying so hard to cover it up.  I tend to agree. There is absolutely nothing shameful about breastfeeding.

I have to add this great video from Sparrowfolk:

 

[formergothardite]

Roddma, could you explain what double standard you are meaning in your first post? 

[blessalessi]

22 hours ago, roddma said:

This opinion may not be popular, but I feel there's double standard here. IIt reminds me of how certain Fundies' are oh so cautious about their modesty before being pregnant, then start wearing tighter clothes after the baby bump. Why is it ok after pregnancy to wear skin tight clothes and pop out a boob in public, but yet you 'slut- shaming' as a non-pregnant women? It also says she's anti-vax.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/zephyrhills-mom-goes-viral-after-posting-breastfeeding-photo-on-facebook/2256503

Fundies typically wear modest clothing and put blankets over babies heads while feeding in public. No double standards involved.

This mom is a Facebook Official "Crunchie Mama" not a fundie. Getting tits out is handy for breastfeeding.  No double standard there.

Declaring oneself an antivaxxer may be dumb, but unless she is secretly taking her kid for his jabs whilst saying oherwise on FB, no double standards there either.

I have no idea who is slut-shaming?

[Gimme a Free RV]

I'm 100% for breastfeeding any time, any where.  If that's the source of your child's nutrition, the child shouldn't have to be penalized and wait until a secret sanctuary can be found for privacy.  I even breastfed my kiddos in church (they were babies at the time, let me be clear) but I covered up sufficiently.  People who cared knew what was going on but there was nothing to see.  It's not like I cleared my throat, popped out my boob, and warned everyone that it was time for my baby to suckle.

[Jingerbread]

When a woman goes out in public dressed provocatively and wearing very little, we're supposed to praise her for being empowered and making the body something to be proud of, even if her intention is to turn people on and get attention.

When a woman nurses openly in public, we're supposed to tell her she needs to cover that shameful boob up and decry her selfish desire for attention or her obvious desire to get kicked out so she would make a fuss, even if her intention is just to feed her child.

[2xx1xy1JD]

roddma - what are you having trouble understanding here?

It's okay to breastfeed in public, because that is how babies eat.  They eat often, you can't always predict when they will get hungry, and a good part of a breastfeeding mom's life consists of, well, breastfeeding.  As soon as you start to restrict or stigmatize this in any way, and make it more awkward or inconvenient, you hurt moms and babies.  We know that isolation makes post-partum depression worse.  We know that babies get weaned earlier when we make breastfeeding more difficult.

I have this weird and radical idea that the health and comfort of the mom and baby are more important than the hang-ups of anyone staring at them.

As for tight clothing - well, many women really don't want to wear maternity clothes after the baby is born, but pre-pregnancy clothes are often snug.  Boobs grow, and shirts get a bit tight over the chest.

[Jingerbread]

6 hours ago, 2xx1xy1JD said:

roddma - what are you having trouble understanding here?

It's okay to breastfeed in public, because that is how babies eat.  They eat often, you can't always predict when they will get hungry, and a good part of a breastfeeding mom's life consists of, well, breastfeeding.  As soon as you start to restrict or stigmatize this in any way, and make it more awkward or inconvenient, you hurt moms and babies.  We know that isolation makes post-partum depression worse.  We know that babies get weaned earlier when we make breastfeeding more difficult.

I have this weird and radical idea that the health and comfort of the mom and baby are more important than the hang-ups of anyone staring at them.

As for tight clothing - well, many women really don't want to wear maternity clothes after the baby is born, but pre-pregnancy clothes are often snug.  Boobs grow, and shirts get a bit tight over the chest.

All of this.  I'd like to add that a lot of tops postpartum moms can wear are stretchy to both accommodate fluctuating breast sizes as well as to make nursing easier.  Standard woven shirts don't allow these things.

And don't anyone dare say nursing can be accommodated by going to a bathroom.  Fuck everyone who thinks it's in any way reasonable to tell a mother to feed a child next to someone taking a shit.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Here's the basic problem with saying, "well, you can always cover up more/go someplace else, etc.":

That's for the mom to decide, period.  Some people like a quiet corner.  Some people have the art of discreet breastfeeding mastered.  And....some don't.

Even though I was usually quite discreet so that most people didn't realize what I was doing, it was less stressful when I knew that I didn't HAVE to be discreet.  Trying to be overly discreet with a newborn was a disaster, because I wasn't able to ensure a really good latch.  Bad latch = intense pain from bleeding nipples + pissed off baby who isn't feeding properly.  When I had baby #3, and Girl 2 was under 2 and Girl 1 was 4, going to the mall meant that I was going to be breastfeeding in the food court.  When you are supervising 2 other children, you need to be able to move a bit.  Perfectly discreet breastfeeding was not possible.  What was I supposed to do?  The baby never figured out how to take a bottle.  I wasn't about to haul a toddler and preschooler into the washroom or a dressing room with me.  After all, they wanted lunch too.  I obviously couldn't leave them alone.  Besides, running across a mall with a crying baby and 2 other small children is not feasible.

New moms generally don't spend the day thinking, "how can I make a statement and flash people?"  They are often feeding the baby around the clock, never sleeping more than 2 or 3 hours in a row.  They are recovering from the whole childbirth.  They are trying to figure out how to adjust to life with a new baby.  They are busy.  The logistics of getting out of the house are complicated enough without adding in anything that will make it harder for the baby to eat.

 

[roddma]

On 12/11/2015 at 8:25 PM, Jingerbread said:

When a woman goes out in public dressed provocatively and wearing very little, we're supposed to praise her for being empowered and making the body something to be proud of, even if her intention is to turn people on and get attention.

When a woman nurses openly in public, we're supposed to tell her she needs to cover that shameful boob up and decry her selfish desire for attention or her obvious desire to get kicked out so she would make a fuss, even if her intention is just to feed her child.

I feel quite the opposite, and it's the similar to black-and white thinking of Fundies and  how they would view it. Your body isnt valuable unless you pop out a kid. Maybe if boobs weren't vowed as dirty in the first place women wouldnt be shamed regardless of parental status. They should feel confident wearing bikinis or breast feeding. Then, some women can't breastfeed and others adopt kids.Where do they fit?  I know babies eat at strange times, but if it were me, I would try to work around their eating so I wouldn't  have to take them out so frequently as babies, or leave them home with dad /aunt/uncle/grandparent 

I dont recall this being an issue when I was growing up or even as a young adult. the times I was around babies whether at church or other public place, the parents took them out when they cried or another room.

[AlysonRR]

I know I was capable of lifting my shirt a bit and quieting a crying baby (at least one who was hungry or in need of comfort) quicker than I could grab a crying baby and run to a "private" room.

I had one child who nursed every 1.5-2hr and was completely unable to have formula (long story, but he bled intestinally when exposed to even so-called hypoallergenic formulas - my diet was quite controlled). I wouldn't have gone anywhere if I had tried to "work around" his schedule, and he couldn't be left with any other food - there was just me.

And by the time my second child came along, my first was in all sorts of activities (playgroups, music lessons, co-ops, field trips, etc.). I felt it was important to live our lives together as much as possible. Staying home because I was breastfeeding one or more children (they tandem nursed) would have meant staying home for more than 4 years. No thanks.

The health benefits of breastfeeding, and the general shift in cultural acceptance, have led to a dramatic increase in women choosing to nurse their babies - around 75% of new mothers start out by breastfeeding.

I know I was uncomfortable when I first saw my aunt breastfeeding her baby - it was the early 70s and I was 9 and hadn't seen any grown woman's breast before, so the flash as the baby latched on shocked me a bit. I got used to it. 

My children, on the other hand, saw dozens of women breastfeed during their pre-teen years. They weren't fazed a bit. When they were younger, they would sometimes point out babies nursing, whether human or animal, because they had been taught that breastfeeding was a natural and beneficial way to feed babies.

So I think a person's general comfort level with seeing breastfeeding in public goes to their background and cultural experience.

And I think people who are uncomfortable with it will either learn to be comfortable or will be increasingly disappointed, since there are more and more women choosing to do it!

[AlysonRR]

I appear to have a bit more to say, LOL.

Specifically regarding the article about Ashley Kaidel in Tampa, I appreciate her motives in silently standing her ground in the face of obvious disapproval. Some women don't have as much confidence or conviction, and would have been discouraged or embarrassed. Maybe the publicity around Ms Kaidel's actions will help others realize that, as she said, there are four cardinal points and critical spectators are free to look in a different direction if they're bothered.

I usually pulled my top up from the bottom, so I rarely had as much breast exposed as Ms Kaidel does in that photo, but I would have if it was how my child(ren) fed most effectively. That's what breasts are for, after all - feeding babies :-)     

[Jingerbread]

1 hour ago, roddma said:

I feel quite the opposite, and it's the similar to black-and white thinking of Fundies and  how they would view it. Your body isnt valuable unless you pop out a kid. Maybe if boobs weren't vowed as dirty in the first place women wouldnt be shamed regardless of parental status. They should feel confident wearing bikinis or breast feeding. Then, some women can't breastfeed and others adopt kids.Where do they fit?  I know babies eat at strange times, but if it were me, I would try to work around their eating so I wouldn't  have to take them out so frequently as babies, or leave them home with dad /aunt/uncle/grandparent 

I dont recall this being an issue when I was growing up or even as a young adult. the times I was around babies whether at church or other public place, the parents took them out when they cried or another room.

I don't think you've ever raised a kid.  You can't, literally can't, work around a baby's eating.  Their needs aren't predictable beyond the fact that they have needs.  Your baby can be hungry every three hours like clockwork for a week, then have a day where they're hungry after 15 minutes, then four hours, then half an hour, an hour, another 15.  You can't know, and this is a fact of parenting a baby.  Trying to force babies onto schedules a laá Babywise is dangerous.

What if there isn't someone who can take the baby while you go out?  And you miss a problem with that suggestion.  If the boob that feeds isn't there, what is that dad/aunt/uncle/grantparent to do?  Not all babis take to bottles, and if you're a breastfeeding mom and get too engorged because there's no baby to nurse, it gets extremely painful and ducts can clog and get infected.

Basically the cost of preventing others from maybe seeing a breast is the mother risking pain and infection.  How selfish.

Did you every think about where parents took babies when they cried?  Churches might have nurseries.  In public, parents with hungry babies can go sit in the car or in a toilet stall, or go home like they shouldn't be in public in the first place.  It may be out of sight, out of mind for you, but for parents, it's a shame game.  They better get their kid out of the sight of people like you, or risk some shaming.

[roddma]

1 hour ago, Jingerbread said:

I don't think you've ever raised a kid.  You can't, literally can't, work around a baby's eating.  Their needs aren't predictable beyond the fact that they have needs.  Your baby can be hungry every three hours like clockwork for a week, then have a day where they're hungry after 15 minutes, then four hours, then half an hour, an hour, another 15.  You can't know, and this is a fact of parenting a baby.  Trying to force babies onto schedules a laá Babywise is dangerous.

What if there isn't someone who can take the baby while you go out?  And you miss a problem with that suggestion.  If the boob that feeds isn't there, what is that dad/aunt/uncle/grantparent to do?  Not all babis take to bottles, and if you're a breastfeeding mom and get too engorged because there's no baby to nurse, it gets extremely painful and ducts can clog and get infected.

Basically the cost of preventing others from maybe seeing a breast is the mother risking pain and infection.  How selfish.

Did you every think about where parents took babies when they cried?  Churches might have nurseries.  In public, parents with hungry babies can go sit in the car or in a toilet stall, or go home like they shouldn't be in public in the first place.  It may be out of sight, out of mind for you, but for parents, it's a shame game.  They better get their kid out of the sight of people like you, or risk some shaming.

For goodness sake most babies arent with mom 24/7. Furthermore, womanhood needs to be separate from motherhood.  There seems to be  breastfeeding obsession. but i guess since i never popped a kid out my opinion is invalid as with those who cant breastfeed or adopted.. 

[Jeebusismycopilot]

3 hours ago, roddma said:

 Then, some women can't breastfeed and others adopt kids.Where do they fit?  I know babies eat at strange times, but if it were me, I would try to work around their eating so I wouldn't  have to take them out so frequently as babies, or leave them home with dad /aunt/uncle/grandparent 

I dont recall this being an issue when I was growing up or even as a young adult. the times I was around babies whether at church or other public place, the parents took them out when they cried or another room.

So wait, you are saying people shouldn't breast feed because not all babies are breast fed? What point are you trying to make here? Not every child will take a bottle. I am pretty sure that people who can't breast feed and adoptive parents aren't offended by those who do breast feed their children. And I am also pretty certain they don't see it as someone "flaunting" their motherhood.  Feeding a baby? SHOCKING! THE HORROR! 

Good luck trying to work around their schedule. That simply doesn't work. Especially with newborns. Eventually kids might settle into some kind of schedule- but that usually includes feeding at regular intervals. Are you saying parents of breastfed children shouldn't be allowed to go out to eat with their entire family? Can't be feeding a baby in a restaurant, that's preposterous!  Sorry ladies, no more family outtings for you! No lunch meetups with friends and forget about popping by the workplace to show off your new bundle of joy! You can't be out in public with that child. What if they get hungry?! 

As for leaving the child with someone else, who? What if you don't have someone else. Does that mean having to pay a babysitter to watch that child so you can do the grocery shopping? Where is that money going to come from? And what if that child gets hungry while the mother is out? What to do then? 

 

Yes, if a baby starts really crying in church or in a public space and they can't be soothed, then a parent will generally take them out to soothe them elsewhere - but a little restlessness never harmed anyone. 

 

You still haven't answered what any of this has to do with slut shaming, anti vaxxers or some fundie girls who relax their modest dress rules.  

[polecat]

14 minutes ago, roddma said:

For goodness sake most babies arent with mom 24/7. Furthermore, womanhood needs to be separate from motherhood.  There seems to be  breastfeeding obsession. but i guess since i never popped a kid out my opinion is invalid as with those who cant breastfeed or adopted.. 

There IS a breastfeeding obsession -- those little buggers can't get enough of it. It's funny -- my babies would start getting antsy and ready for milk (even when not hungry) any time they saw me fiddle in ANY way with my top. And heaven forbid one of them see me dressing -- if my top was off, it was belly-up-to-the-milk-bar time no matter what their tummies or my to-do list said. But me? No. The only way I was obsessed was just trying to make sure they were fed. Boys eat a LOT even as newborns (and it gets worse with time).

Motherhood is all-consuming those first months. It just is.

You're welcome to your opinion about how you plan to breastfeed -- by not going out as much and leaving your child with someone else when you need to go out -- but that's all it is: an opinion about how you plan to breastfeed. The rest of us will continue doing whatever works for us. As for adoptive mothers and mothers who can't or choose not to breastfeed, they should also feel free to continue doing whatever works for them. Because motherhood isn't a competition. It's hard enough as it is without other women (mothers or not) tearing down your choices. 

I'd also like to refer back to this comment of yours: 

Quote

Maybe if boobs weren't vowed as dirty in the first place women wouldnt be shamed regardless of parental status. They should feel confident wearing bikinis or breast feeding. 

2

You're absolutely right. So let's stop shaming breastfeeding women for being "obsessed."