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Growing Up Quiverful Kristina Miner - MERGED


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Not sure if you read my entire post or not, but I wasn't saying I agree with the Pearls. I was simply sharing what they wrote about obedience. I think it's disgusting and they belong in prison. 

Sorry, I guess I was reacting to their ideas themselves, but I never thought anyone here agreed with the Pearls. I AM thankful my parents didn't go to the extremes that the Pearls seem to have done, If they maintain good relationships with ALL their children, I'd consider it a miracle.......or worry about their grandchildren that'd be the results of "well my parents did this and it worked so I'll do the same with my kids". Thanks for clarifying.

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Sorry, I guess I was reacting to their ideas themselves, but I never thought anyone here agreed with the Pearls. I AM thankful my parents didn't go to the extremes that the Pearls seem to have done, If they maintain good relationships with ALL their children, I'd consider it a miracle.......or worry about their grandchildren that'd be the results of "well my parents did this and it worked so I'll do the same with my kids". Thanks for clarifying.

I thought the Pearls were just old fashioned it's okay to spank sometimes folks. After seeing that video, he doesn't seem like an old timesy disciplinarian, type, but a psycho. His wife too.

 

Even if you're okay with spanking I don't see how you'd be okay with that. The point of discipline (any discipline from spanking to time out) is NOT to make your child loose all will and live in fear, but to teach them about how to be a good person. 

I don't get how anyone can defend the Pearls. They aren't you're typical old fashioned family. They're just controlling. 

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For anyone who wants another great read / deep dive into the crazy from someone who has now left but is also incredibly scarred, there is a blog Hearesy in the Heartland by a woman named Jeri. It will take longer than 30 min. But worth the read. She goes into her days at Gothard HQ too.

Jeri is a rock star too. I love how she articulates things. 

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I started reading her blog after someone mentioned her on here.  I highly recommend her blog

Good Grief, I  just spent the last hour down the Rabbit hole reading on Hearesay to the Heartland.  No idea where the time went.  Clearly going to have to set some time aside to read the rest.  Fascinating stuff.  

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I am currently reading a book by a Christian author.. one about letting go of control. Anyways, there is a chapter in which she is talking about how to properly control children (please don't take that in any kind of wrong way, I am super duper paraphrasing. What else is in the book is not the point). She ends up talking about how she wanted her children to be saints out in public.. you know the no tantrums ever, yes ma'am, never running around church children.

 

So a lot of people recommend a book to her. "It touted not only a heavy hand of control but also a tool of correct that would literally who the rambunctious rowdies into shape." She then goes on to state that she only read a few chapters before she realized how awful it was. She tells a story about going out with a friend and then her daughter started to not be agreeable. It was something like she wanted to sit by her siblings instead of by the author who was pretty much a stranger to her. The mother tells her daughter to do what she says or "you'll get 'the rod'" Then proceeded a few minutes later when her daughter wasn't perfect to whip it out and hit the daughters legs until there were welts on it. The author later asked the mother how her legs were and the mother completely shrugged it off as if it was nothing.

Reading that I was like "THATS MICHAEL PEARL! IT HAS TO BE." 

The author then went on to say that the children of the parents who followed this book had issues later on. 

 

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For anyone who wants another great read / deep dive into the crazy from someone who has now left but is also incredibly scarred, there is a blog Hearesy in the Heartland by a woman named Jeri. It will take longer than 30 min. But worth the read. She goes into her days at Gothard HQ too.

Thank you for this. I have bookmarked it and hope to find some time on the weekend to delve deeper into this blog and learn a bit more. 

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For anyone who wants another great read / deep dive into the crazy from someone who has now left but is also incredibly scarred, there is a blog Hearesy in the Heartland by a woman named Jeri. It will take longer than 30 min. But worth the read. She goes into her days at Gothard HQ too.

I just fell down the rabbit hole on this blog and wow

She is incredibly well written and goes really in depth on what the beliefs her family held were and how they harmed her. She has a six part series on her relationship with music and it made me cry at one point. 

I have barely made a dent in her posts after several hours of non stop reading last night but it is a really good, worth it, read. 

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Michael Pearl may think he looks the part in a suit but he's the monster in the suit. 

I found his book online too and cried reading parts of it as I didn't know who he was years back as I was reading about the Duggars when they where 14 kids and counting. I found a parenting site now only open to members and Michelle was telling others to get rulers to smack the little kids with. Funny how when they get the series those comments vanished and that group circled the wagons and we were all liars. 

I'm glad kristina escaped and one salvation was that her parents wanted her to have a higher education. Sadly that will never happen for the Duggar adult children the now but I dream one day one by one they quietly drift away a from Gothardite teachings and give the bird to their parents. 

I wish someone would've screencapped this post Michelle made on the parenting forum. I've heard it referenced here several times, and that TLC wiped it clean when the show aired.

Did someone say Kristiana has a blog? I can't find it when I search her name.

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I just fell down the rabbit hole on this blog and wow

She is incredibly well written and goes really in depth on what the beliefs her family held were and how they harmed her. She has a six part series on her relationship with music and it made me cry at one point. 

I have barely made a dent in her posts after several hours of non stop reading last night but it is a really good, worth it, read. 

I agree, she is very well written.

It would be great if Chris Shelton would be able to interview Jeri since she worked at HQ and give another perspective.

I wish someone would've screencapped this post Michelle made on the parenting forum. I've heard it referenced here several times, and that TLC wiped it clean when the show aired.

Did someone say Kristiana has a blog? I can't find it when I search her name.

I wish it was screencapped. Is it in the wayback machine? I am not familiar how to search that.

I don't think anyone said Kristiana has a blog, we are talking about Jeri's blog "Hersey in the Heartland" heresyintheheartland.blogspot.com

 

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I agree, she is very well written.

It would be great if Chris Shelton would be able to interview Jeri since she worked at HQ and give another perspective.

I wish it was screencapped. Is it in the wayback machine? I am not familiar how to search that.

I don't think anyone said Kristiana has a blog, we are talking about Jeri's blog "Hersey in the Heartland" heresyintheheartland.blogspot.com

 

I may be crazy, but I thought there was a screen cap floating around a few years ago? I could be wrong but I think I remember seeing it posted/copied somewhere. 

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Thanks @quiversR4hunting I misread. I think I've browsed this blog before - time to fall back down that rabbit hole.

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The Pearls require instant obedience. (I heard a Dalek say that once.) So if a child hesitates, he gets the rod. He'd better do it with a smile, too. I think some people got hold of the book and used it without thinking. The answer to their prayers. So we got murdered children, and how many more who are suffering with the plumbing line and psychological torture. I can't imagine lying there wondering when the next blow will fall.

Maybe Josh picked up that if you're angry, then you're entitled to sex, and translated that into rough sex.

Pearl looks like the monster he is.

My parents didn't have access to this book (thank the gods), but the instant obedience thing is very familiar. Also the punishments for failing that plus a litany of real and imagined crimes.... I even remember being woken up at night by my mother spanking me. No idea what I could have done to set that off... and in the morning, it was treated like nothing ever happened. Crying or making any sound would just make the beatings and the inevitable bruising worse. Complaining about the pain resulted in another session. Before hearing about the Pearls, I thought - and hoped - the kind of 'discipline' I received as a child was rare. I can't believe that these people basically wrote a book about how to torture children, and demonstrate their technique to crowds, record it on video and are still free and in society. Meanwhile, people are locked up for doing things such as prostitution and small time drugs that while illegal, IMO, at least, are much less damaging to society and people.

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and the audience laughed. :my_sad:

Kinda disgusted that so many people voluntarily stayed in the room with that scene playing out. The laughter was one of the worst parts of that video, and it was chilling how so many of their comments dehumanized children. I cannot imagine ever hitting someone like Pearl was beating that doll. It made me cringe just thinking of how little empathy the Pears and their audience members must have for other people, I don't understand how enforcing immediate compliance and 'perfect' behavior - mostly for appearance sake or sake of the parent's ease - could be worth the physical and psychological damage inflicted on children who are on the receiving end of that.

 

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<snip>

I wish it was screencapped. Is it in the wayback machine? I am not familiar how to search that.

<snip>

So, I just tried to look on the way back machine after looking up what site it was, and unfortunately, I don't think there's anyway the way back machine could have screen capped it because the community required you to make an account to view the forums at all. 

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I studied psychology in college with an emphasis on child development and I still just can't get over the Pearls video and keep thinking about the extensive psychological damage their methods inflict. If a child fears their parents, they don't have a "secure base" from which they are able to explore the world and know they can return to, especially in times of distress. Without that kids are less likely to be able to form a sense of security and meaningful and happy relationships.

I know everyone here knows this, but these people are absolute monsters.

This also reminds me of the Little Albert experiment. For those that don't know, in the 1920s two experimenters wanted to see if they could condition a fearful response to a neurtal stimulus/something the kids wouldn't be afraid of in an infant (Think Pavlov's dog type of conditioning). They presented the baby with a furry object (a rat, I believed) and made a bang on something to create a loud noise. Of course, the baby would get scared and cry. This fear ended up extending extending to all furry objects. The experimenters didn't bother to see if they could desensitize Albert or do any follow-up, psychologists just assume he suffered life-long psychological damage. Same sort of concept as blanket training, condition the child to be fearful. I wonder if the Pearls heard about this.

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My parents didn't have access to this book (thank the gods), but the instant obedience thing is very familiar. Also the punishments for failing that plus a litany of real and imagined crimes.... I even remember being woken up at night by my mother spanking me. No idea what I could have done to set that off... and in the morning, it was treated like nothing ever happened. Crying or making any sound would just make the beatings and the inevitable bruising worse. Complaining about the pain resulted in another session. Before hearing about the Pearls, I thought - and hoped - the kind of 'discipline' I received as a child was rare. I can't believe that these people basically wrote a book about how to torture children, and demonstrate their technique to crowds, record it on video and are still free and in society. Meanwhile, people are locked up for doing things such as prostitution and small time drugs that while illegal, IMO, at least, are much less damaging to society and people.

I am so sorry you had to endure all you did as a child. That is just so wrong on so many levels. I still remember we had a neighbor who used to beat his children with his belt and we would hear them screaming at all times of the day and night. He actually drove me to school and every morning he seemed "right as rain" as if nothing had ever happened. It would make my skin crawl and at times almost make me ill thinking of what my friends were going through and no one was helping.

I am sorry you have been through this. It should never be like that as a child. Never.

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I'm going to move this thread out to QoS because I think it is interesting for people at large and not just Duggar watchers.

 

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Thank you for posting this. I found the guy a bit annoying really, but what a poised, beautiful and bright woman Kristina is.
I am also sorry to hear about other personal abusive situations by some here growing up. My mother was abusive, would lash out and hit us and overall my parents were pretty strict, but it has nothing to do with religion, "just" control mixed with depression and other borderline disorders. Sometimes I wonder if this experience is what brought me here.

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I was aware of the Pearl's training books from reading about them here on FJ years ago but never have seen Michael in action. Wow, if anyone ever thought they just championed a bit of spanking that video should dispel any doubt that what they promote is indeed child abuse. I manage a library Friends group and I've been tossing all the various Pearl books, including Debi's wifely submission tomes into the trash. We don't get many anymore but about 4-5 years ago we got a lot of that sort of thing donated. I didn't realize how sick it all was and now I'm really glad I made that decision to never re-sell one or pass it on but to trash it.

Thanks to the poster who recommended Heresy in the Heartland. I needed a new blog to fall into and she sounds like a good one but God, I miss some of the crazies of the past. So few any more...I really need a bathroom baby or in a shoe fix...

ETA: Ha! I just realized I'm a Bathroom Baby and didn't know it when I typed that. I read those crazies in real time.

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One of the things that I guess I continue to not be able to wrap my head around is this need to train children by hitting them. I mean, I know Jill has said she intends to do things like her parents, and that what her brother did was normal and that she's a brainwashed idiot....but she is just so sweet with her little siblings, naturally, it's hard to see her hitting little choo choo on purpose. Spanking as a disciplinary action is one thing. This Pearl training business is truly on a different level. 

I just read The Girl at The End of The World by Elizabeth Esther. Her fundie cult was called the Assembly and went for 33 yrs till early 2000s. Nothing particularly new to any of us. They were into the training thing. Her parents did it to her. What got to me was her description of her first child's first bday party. The little girl reached for a bowl of candy. Instead of just moving it..the grandma moves it closer and says it's a good opportunity to teach her not to do something. So then they're in the bathroom and she's sitting there thinking "i'm supposed  to hit my baby now" Was one of her lightbulb moments. She did hit the kids more but then escaped etc. 

Is it known what kind of childhood the Pearls had? 

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I just read The Girl at The End of The World by Elizabeth Esther. Her fundie cult was called the Assembly and went for 33 yrs till early 2000s. Nothing particularly new to any of us. They were into the training thing. Her parents did it to her. What got to me was her description of her first child's first bday party. The little girl reached for a bowl of candy. Instead of just moving it..the grandma moves it closer and says it's a good opportunity to teach her not to do something. So then they're in the bathroom and she's sitting there thinking "i'm supposed  to hit my baby now" Was one of her lightbulb moments. 

There are indeed different levels here. I wrote somewhere on fj that at one point I tried a handslap on my toddler when she was going for electrical outlets (which she was fascinated with) and found out it made her confused and sad (why would mummy hurt her) but she did not associate the pain with the action so it did not work. So I regretted it and stopped. However, I was concerned for her safety. I did not try to train her. The grandmother in this story was another level. There were candies and it was seen as an opportunity to teach a baby restraint. The candies posed no danger. This was about the parents' wishes, not about a kid's need for protection.

The Pearls take it to the next level. They propose putting candies within children's reach with the express purpose to beat the crap out of them when they go for it. That is not misguided protection or training. That is sadistic.

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I haven't watched the video yet, but I am looking forward to it! 

The other day, I found a website with the entire book, To Train Up A Child. I'm barely through the first section and it's chilling. The Pearls belong in prison for life. I'm not sure if I will ever finish the book, because it's so disturbing. [emoji14]b_confused:

I think it affects me even more, since I take care of babies for a living. I was imagining the two sweet girls I care for as I read it, and it made me feel physically ill. I would never, even in their worst days of teething, fussing, etc., even consider abusing them. Ugh. I just can't imagine how someone could justify hitting an infant.*

*children, too, but it's particularly fucked up to hit a BABY! 

A few months ago I made the horrible mistake to read the entire book online. I am serious, I had nightmares for days.

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knowing the endless skepticism of FJ'ers, and the utter shut down of believing that one kids AMA on reddit like a month ago, I am surprised I didn't see this comment yet:

FAKE SO FAKE, NEED PROOF, INTERNET TROLL, ANY ONE FROM THIS FORUM COULD REPRODUCE THESE ANSWERS, JUST WANTS ATTENTION, FAAKEEEKEKEKEKE

Because she is petty well known in the ATI student survivor circles. 

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New here, What a brave lady, speaking up about the evils of these cults. I'm studying Psychology just now and the abuse of these so called  religious people  is sick. How to Train a Child should be banned and the people  who follow it locked up.

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