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formergothardite

Satan(like Gothard) likes pretty teen girls

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Meh
formergothardite

Discovering Grace is a website set up by Gothard supporters to try and make him look like he isn't a creepy sexual predator. They aren't doing a great job at that. I haven't read around it too much because my blood pressure can only take so much Gothard worship, but someone left a comment asking why Gothard focused on surrounding himself with teen girls. The moderator(who I'm pretty sure in the infamous Alfred) said that Gothard had a special calling to encourage young girls to be "mighty in spirit". When asked why he didn't do this for all teen girls, just the very pretty ones who were Gothard's "type", the moderator gave this reply:

See, the devil sure spends extra time on the pretty ones, because he gets so much more mileage out of time invested in them than in the unattractive ones. The movie stars, the athletes . . . the just “gorgeous” ones. People instinctively like them and follow them. Argue all you want about what should be . . . can you tell me I am wrong? So . . . why in the world would Bill not spend more time on them as well, for the same reasons?

And why did Gothard single out these pretty teens and tell them exactly how to dress? Not because he is a creepy pervert but because:

gave focused advice to “Sammy” on how to dress, carry herself, speak, all with the purpose so she could make a great impression on others, especially her future husband and his family and friends. Ordered her women’s magazines toward that end. Fictional . . . but . . . apparently considered quite normal, OK, given the overwhelming popularity of the novel. Do you really think that is bad

Well, wouldn't it make more sense for him to get a woman to do this? Wouldn't a woman have better idea on how to do this instead of an elderly man? 

When questioned even more about this, the moderator sticks with defending Gothard surrounding himself with pretty teen girls because God has destined them for greatness and they need Gothard to help defend them from Satan. The ugly ones like me, didn't. We weren't destined for much, apparently. 

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2015/11/22/shepherd-of-the-hills/#comment-555

I didn't even really read their articles, the comments are the best part. 

 

Edited by OnceUponATime
adding tags

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Rachel333

Lol, I was going to ask if Alfred is involved somehow.

I know a few members of his family and they always seemed as normal as a fundie can be, and then I saw what an ass of himself he's been making online. It makes me feel bad for his kids.

How can someone defend a predator, especially when, like Gil Bates or Alfred, they have teen daughters themselves? It's really sickening.

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hoipolloi

While watching the play [Shepherd of the Hills at Branson, MO] recently we were interested to observe the scene represented above and could not help think of the controversy swirling around Bill Gothard.  The comparisons are interesting.  “Dad” in the story is an older man dedicated to counseling others, especially focused on improving the lot of a young lady, “Sammy”.  Sammy is preparing for marriage and is unsure of many things, having lost her mother.  With her father’s blessing “Dad” gives her many hours of heart to heart counsel on things spiritual and practical, including teaching her how to speak with better grammar, dress, carry herself as a fine lady.  In the depicted scene he is helping her through a critical moment, clasping her hand in both of his as he looks into her eyes and speaks to her heart.

The depicted event seemed signicant because it so mirrored some of the situations that Bill has come under fire for.  See, this is exactly what Bill is doing and thinking as he at times has held the hands of the young ladies he has poured his life into.  He is counseling them with their parents’ permission and sees himself as “Dad” to them, a sentiment many have echoed back as well.  He counsels them on spiritual and practical matters, sometimes even on improving their appearance and deportment.  All of this to see them confident and successful in their future lives and marriages.

Similar scenes are seen in other classics like “Anne of Green Gables”.  Perhaps it hales back to a long forgotten day, but it is a day that Bill lives in, a man to many hopelessly “old fashioned”.

Should Bill have been more sensitive to the sensibilities of some of his counselees that felt uncomfortable with this type of attention and behavior?  Yes, he should have.  But what he did was done with pure motives, much like the “Shepherd of the Hills”.  And many young ladies have testified to the blessing he has been to them.  May this little example serve to provide another frame of reference to understand Bill and his 50 year ministry of counseling.

Re: Bolded. OMFG. I can't. Just CAN'T. These people are TOTAL ASS-WIPES.

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2015/11/22/shepherd-of-the-hills/#comment-555

I didn't even really read their articles, the comments are the best part. 

 

You're right. They're gold, like this one:

I have read SHEPHERD OF THE HILLS and do not recall the main character playing footsie with Sammy. Nor shaming others and sending them home for even talking to her.

 

Edited by hoipolloi
Attempted clarity

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FloraKitty35

"Mighty in Spirit" nice euphemism for Gothard's hard on. :brainbleach:   

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doggie

I swear if gothard shit on bread you would see his followers telling how great the taste and the crunchiness is perfect. 

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Gimme a Free RV

I would argue that the "unattractive" ones (and really, how dare Gothard make that distinction!) are more susceptible to being Satan's targets because they might feel no sense of self-worth--especially in Goatherd-land--that they would throw themselves into compromising situations just to feel a sense of acceptance and worth. In Gothard's slimy economy, throw the uglies to Satan.  God only wants to use the pretty girls.

OK.  This makes me angry enough to want to step on Got-hard's toes with steel boots so that they would all break, disenabling him to play footsie with beautifully anointed Mighty in Spirit.

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Wine time!
lemonhead

See, the devil sure spends extra time on the pretty ones, because he gets so much more mileage out of time invested in them than in the unattractive ones.

And it doesn't seem odd that Bill also spent extra time on the pretty ones? Seems like Bill and Satan were working towards the same purpose, no?

 

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Meh
formergothardite

I count myself lucky that I was one of those unattractive ones that  Satan Gothard didn't have much use for. 

I find it interesting in reading the comments on both RG and Discovering Grace that apparently the BoD kind of shoved Gothard out after they did their "investigation" They said that they didn't find anything, but I'm betting that for starters, they didn't have to go looking too hard because most of them already knew all this stuff, and when they did look they must have found some stuff that made them view Gothard as a liability. I'm beginning to change my mind about the BoD, I don't think they worship at the feet of Gothard, I think they worship at the feet of the IBLP money and their goal at this moment is to protect that and prevent any victims from getting any of it. It seems like Gothard resigned and was expecting to be taken back, but they don't really want him right now. Of course, it seems like he still has plenty of access to IBLP/ATI family info, so they most likely haven't shut him out completely, they are just limiting his power so they can protect the evil empire and the money that is left. 

 

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Cleopatra7

Lol, I was going to ask if Alfred is involved somehow.

I know a few members of his family and they always seemed as normal as a fundie can be, and then I saw what an ass of himself he's been making online. It makes me feel bad for his kids.

How can someone defend a predator, especially when, like Gil Bates or Alfred, they have teen daughters themselves? It's really sickening.

They probably think that the rumors about Gothard being a predator are false, and that if anything untoward happened, it was the girl's fault for being a "temptress." Given how the Duggars' covered up Josh's molestation, it's obvious that it's more important for the abuser to be reinstated as a "godly man" in the community than support the victims.

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Jasmar

Lol, I was going to ask if Alfred is involved somehow.

I know a few members of his family and they always seemed as normal as a fundie can be, and then I saw what an ass of himself he's been making online. It makes me feel bad for his kids.

How can someone defend a predator, especially when, like Gil Bates or Alfred, they have teen daughters themselves? It's really sickening.

You know Alfred? Wow. All of his haranguing at Recovering Grace, combined with this latest travesty, make me worry for his kids. No one is that naive, after having actively read the reams of evidence against Gothard.

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Anonymousguest

Reading his argument comparing Moses' parents recognizing he was an exceptional child to Gothard and pretty girls made me feel physically ill. That is some seriously twisted scriptural logic. I dont understand how otherwise normal people can fall for Gothard's scripture twisting. Any normal person would read that and realize something is seriously amiss.  But Gothard had some word hold on people. 

My first experience with ati/gothard came from a woman in church who wanted to help me have a vbac. She gave me the pamphlets on vbac/child birth.  When she gave then to me she said something like, it's devinly inspired,  he's not a Dr and never even been married,  so where else could he get this information comes directly from the Lord. 

People who follow him really seem to think he has a direct line with God,  and no amount of discussion can make them see differently. It's so bizarre to me that the people I know who are into ATI seem to be intelligent,  and even discerning,  I just don't understand why they can't see through Gothard. 

I see that with this guy "moderator" Alfred? The very fact that Gothard chose these attractive young women means that God intended great things for them, so convinced he is that Gothard is a prophet. 

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foreign fundie

I call BS of the Anne of  Green Gables comparisson. Their authority is always scripture, not English literature. Show me one place in scripture where a spiritual father surrounds himself with pretty teenage girls in order to help or counsel them. The Bible does mention that elderly believing woman have a role to mentor young, married woman in their roles in the family. But nowhere does it encourage men to do that. Timothy (a apprentice of st.Paul) was told to admonish 'elder men like fathers, younger men as brothers, elder woman as mothers and younger woman as sisters, with absolute purity'.  He was never told to single them out of the church community and  the warning ' with absolute purity' was a good reminder for Timothy that his authorithy was strictly theological and that he had to consider these women as sisters, that is, equals and worthy of protection. The only men in scripture that surrounded themselves with young women where kings who had a hareem. And that is precisely what Gothard is after.  

Personally I do not need scripture in cases like these. Because God has endowed humanity with something called common sense, and if you even need to see what the Bible says about this (let alone Anne of Green Gables) you are a pretty hopeless case. An old, single, powerful and rich person, can have no valid reason in the universe to surround himself with a flock of vulnerable pretty virgin girls. 

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Four is Enough

Surely the powers that be, the ones who made up this website, know of the existence of Recovering Grace. Why on EARTH would they name their site "Discovering Grace"? They can so easily be misheard for each other!  An RG reader might quickly realize that he was on the wrong site if he read DG; but what would someone who wanted to read DG do if he discovered RG instead? The horror of reading blasphemy!

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Meh
formergothardite

They did that on purpose because they really, truly think that their defense of Gothard's behavior is so good that people who read both pages will be convinced that DG is correct. That is how delusional and out of touch these people are. Reminds me of Jim Bob and MIchelle. 

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Gimme a Free RV

Reading his argument comparing Moses' parents recognizing he was an exceptional child to Gothard and pretty girls made me feel physically ill. That is some seriously twisted scriptural logic. I dont understand how otherwise normal people can fall for Gothard's scripture twisting. Any normal person would read that and realize something is seriously amiss.  But Gothard had some word hold on people. 

 

People who follow him really seem to think he has a direct line with God,  and no amount of discussion can make them see differently. It's so bizarre to me that the people I know who are into ATI seem to be intelligent,  and even discerning,  I just don't understand why they can't see through Gothard. 

 

This is what really makes my blood boil about Gothard.  I have a dear friend and her husband who attended one of the "Institutes" decades ago and they bought into his logic, hook, line, and sinker.  The reason this bothers me is because this isn't a fundie couple and they are, otherwise, extremely intelligent and they know scripture well.  I think the draw for them was the legalistic part of it.  Some people demand cut and dried, black and white, do or die, type of logic.  Scripture isn't always laid out that way.  The believer has to rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit in their own lives to show them what the Bible is saying to them, individually.  I believe you become a sheeple when you blindly follow someone else's teaching without testing it against what the Bible REALLY says.  Gothard's scripture twisting is notorius and he WILL answer for it someday.  (My opinion and belief as a Christian.)

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quiversR4hunting

<snip> An old, single, powerful and rich person, can have no valid reason in the universe to surround himself with a flock of vulnerable pretty virgin girls. 

<cough> Hugh Hefner <cough>

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Gimme a Free RV

@quiversR4hunting 

Exactly.

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Mischievous
LadyCrow1313

One picture that I saw on the Staddon family website a few years ago always sticks in my mind. Esther (their only daughter) was kneeling on the floor in front of Gothard & some other schlub, & she'd been receiving a "blessing" from them. Now, as much as I don't like to talk negatively about someone (unless the situation is obvious & it's called for), the picture has always creeped me out. Plus, learning more about Gothard's shenanigans from other FJ'ers makes it even creepier.

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AmazonGrace

 

My first experience with ati/gothard came from a woman in church who wanted to help me have a vbac. She gave me the pamphlets on vbac/child birth.  When she gave then to me she said something like, it's devinly inspired,  he's not a Dr and never even been married,  so where else could he get this information comes directly from the Lord. 

 

Where else he could get this information...? Um... googling some pro vbac site? Read a book? Ask somebody who claims they know about this sort of thing? Make up some shit?

 

Wow talk about fallacious thinking. As if any number of fools aren't able to spout any amount of bullshit without any divine entity telling them what to say. (And if God tells people what to say, how do we know that Satan doesn't? What if it's the other guy who

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foreign fundie

 

My first experience with ati/gothard came from a woman in church who wanted to help me have a vbac. She gave me the pamphlets on vbac/child birth.  When she gave then to me she said something like, it's devinly inspired,  he's not a Dr and never even been married,  so where else could he get this information comes directly from the Lord. 

What interests me is why this woman wanted to be involved in your vbac decision period. I can imagine fundies wanting to convince people of their theology. But this seems a personal decision and a theologically neutral one.

It reminds me of when I just had my first baby and an American fundie friend gave me this book about how vaccinations were dangerous and all a big pharma conspiricy and can make your child autistic. Why would she want to convince me if that? We were not close friends and it felt kind of pushy especially when she followed up on it. Why this concern with other people's private lives? Is there no distinction in fundieism between essential Christian theology and ethics and day to day life?

 

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Meh
formergothardite

 

Where else he could get this information...? Um... googling some pro vbac site? Read a book? Ask somebody who claims they know about this sort of thing? Make up some shit?

 

Wow talk about fallacious thinking. As if any number of fools aren't able to spout any amount of bullshit without any divine entity telling them what to say. (And if God tells people what to say, how do we know that Satan doesn't? What if it's the other guy who

I really wish I had managed to get hold of all my parents' IBLP "medical" books before they tossed them. Gothard had a whole book about pregnancy and birth and he also had the answers to any sort of problems with them. 

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salex

OK, I just read the explanation in the first post and it sounded like his answer was satire!  I'm amazed people can read this and accept it as a "real" reason. 

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doggie

gothard and the devil both want young girls for the same reason for corruption and fun.

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quiversR4hunting

Who is Alfred?

I am by no means and expert on Alfred; just what I have learned here. Alfred is (it seems) the #1 Bill Gothard leg humper. He defends Bill to the end and back.

I believe this is a book review by "The Alfred" to give you an idea of him: http://www.corduan.com/book_review.html **

He has been banned (IIRC) from recovering grace and some think (or know- not sure which) he is behind discovering grace website.

A former ATI person probably has better intel than myself.

** note I checked and this website link has been saved to the wayback machine. <applause> to whomever placed it there.

Edited by quiversR4hunting
added ** note

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