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Which Duggar Will Escape First?


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As much as I'd like to see her escape, I highly doubt that will happen.  I know it's been mentioned before, but her best (non-family) friends are Michaela Keilen and Priscilla Waller.  I see her married to a guy from HQ before I see her truly escaping. 

Part of me is surprised that she's not with a guy from HQ, but I also know the reason why.  JB does not want his kids (especially daughters) moving far away from the TTH (I do wonder how he reacted to Jilly Muffin moving overseas).  

If I were a fundie man and Ben and Brandon both approached me as potential suitors for my daughters, I would definitely pick Brandon over Ben.  I would not have given Ben the green light to propose to Jessa until he had a job that was not social media preacher/reality TV star.

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There was a girl I taught at Christian school who regularly gave impassioned testimonies at chapel, carried around a copy of I Kissed Dating Goodbye for an entire school year, never went anywhere with

Oh, I want a tell all so badly, no matter how much tabloids might dig up. I want first-person accounts of conversations, of consequences to broken rules, of how they discussed Josh's behavior, of how

I don't expect any of them to "escape" in a dramatic way. I think some of the younger ones will gradually start to drift away from the family melodrama and quietly adopt some more mainstream lifestyle

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DuggarsTheEndIsNear

Part of me is surprised that she's not with a guy from HQ, but I also know the reason why.  JB does not want his kids (especially daughters) moving far away from the TTH (I do wonder how he reacted to Jilly Muffin moving overseas).  

If I were a fundie man and Ben and Brandon both approached me as potential suitors for my daughters, I would definitely pick Brandon over Ben.  I would not have given Ben the green light to propose to Jessa until he had a job that was not social media preacher/reality TV star.

Actually, I doubt that is true. I very much think JB would hop on ANY opportunity to get in good with the fundie royalty types. Derick and Ben were kept close because they had to be indoctrinated. Derick apparently did well enough with his indoctrination that he gave up a real career to be a pretend missionary, which JB was more than happy to finance. I'm not entirely sure where Ben sits in his indoctrination. 

If a guy from HQ offered to court his daughter, I bet he would be all over that. No need to indoctrinate him, the work has already been done (also, remember that the indoctrination says that you must still turn to your parents for guidance after marriage, so it's not a control issue). Plus, that's a social standing that his family has been denied in that church. He speaks at the conferences and he's famous, sure, but he's not actually IBLP royalty. 

I imagine the reason it hasn't happened is because of Josh's transgressions. He had to settle for less than perfect for his two married daughters because of what Josh did. Not only because Josh ruined the family name, but because his daughters were sexually pure. Remember, the rumors existed outside their circle for about a decade. The knowledge existed within their circle since Josh was sent off to the "reformation camp."

Now, one bright side (as far as marrying of Jana is concerned) is that Jana has been proven to be "pure" still to anyone who knows the list of victims (since he only question was whether the oldest victim was Jill or Jana and Jill admitted she was the one). That MAY open doors she may have otherwise had closed to her. Or not, depending on how they view families where these incidents happen. 

The bad news is that, now that the reports have been released and confirmed, I imagine that Joy and Jinger would have a harder time getting married off. They may be forgiven by potential suitors for their age at the time. But maybe not, based on their religious teachings. 

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EmCatlyn

My brother is single (much older than Jana but never been married nor does he have any kids) but I jokingly said to him one day- "Hey Jana Duggar is still on the market" (He thinks the Duggars are crazy) He looked at me and said- "yeah she's good looking but she would have to leave that crazy religion and family!" He didn't say it but she would also have to convert to Catholicism because he isn't going IFB. I think he would like a stay at home wife with a couple kids.

No chance that Jana will ever convert to the EEEVIL Catholicism.  :)   But you could send her some tracts to see what happens.  :my_biggrin:

Part of me is surprised that she's not with a guy from HQ, but I also know the reason why.  JB does not want his kids (especially daughters) moving far away from the TTH (I do wonder how he reacted to Jilly Muffin moving overseas).  

I am not sure that it is JB who is not eager for HQ suitors.  It may well be the other way around.  The HQ crowd may not trust anyone from JB's family, not just because they may know about Josh but because JB is so clearly driven by his own need for self-aggrandizement.  Also, a prospective husband with a reasonable desire for privacy might not want to think of himself as part of that dog and pony show.

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EmCatlyn

<snip>

Now, one bright side (as far as marrying of Jana is concerned) is that Jana has been proven to be "pure" still to anyone who knows the list of victims (since he only question was whether the oldest victim was Jill or Jana and Jill admitted she was the one). That MAY open doors she may have otherwise had closed to her. Or not, depending on how they view families where these incidents happen. 

The bad news is that, now that the reports have been released and confirmed, I imagine that [redacted] and [redacted] would have a harder time getting married off. They may be forgiven by potential suitors for their age at the time. But maybe not, based on their religious teachings. 

We are not supposed to speculate or name possible unnamed victims, so I will only say that it might occur to possible suitors that just because someone says s/he was not molested doesn't necessarily mean that s/he was not.  Further, as to the two youngest victims (whose names we are not supposed to mention either) the interesting thing is that to be able to guess those names one would have to be reading the police report.  How many fundies can do that?   Nike!!

To put it in other words, the whole family of girls may be somewhat "tainted" by the rumors that Josh molested "some of his sisters" even if the general public believes that A was not molested but B,C, D, and F were while G, H, etc. were not molested because they weren't born yet.  Whatever the "taint" may be (and I bet it is perceived differently in different families) the whole family may be affected.  Bottom line is that it is known in their circles that something sexually improper happened in that family. 

Since some molestation is (according to Jill) not that uncommon in their circles (and certainly some of the accounts at Recovering Grace and No Longer Quivering would seem to support this assertion), maybe the Gothardites will look the other way and still be willing to marry the Duggar girls.  On the other hand, part of the "success" of this cult is that they manage to keep just under the radar of authorities that might notice that they abuse and fail to education their children.  Not all the Gothardites might want the fame that the Duggars have.     (Just thinking out loud here.)

 

Edited by EmCatlyn
(It is "on the other hand" not "other hands"
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justoneoftwo

We are not supposed to speculate or name possible unnamed victims, so I will only say that it might occur to possible suitors that just because someone says s/he was not molested doesn't necessarily mean that s/he was not.  Further, as to the two youngest victims (whose names we are not supposed to mention either) the interesting thing is that to be able to guess those names one would have to be reading the police report.  How many fundies can do that?   Nike!!

To put it in other words, the whole family of girls may be somewhat "tainted" by the rumors that Josh molested "some of his sisters" even if the general public believes that A was not molested but B,C, D, and F were while G, H, etc. were not molested because they weren't born yet.  Whatever the "taint" may be (and I bet it is perceived differently in different families) the whole family may be affected.  Bottom line is that it is known in their circles that something sexually improper happened in that family. 

Since some molestation is (according to Jill) not that uncommon in their circles (and certainly some of the accounts at Recovering Grace and No Longer Quivering would seem to support this assertion), maybe the Gothardites will look the other way and still be willing to marry the Duggar girls.  On the other hands, part of the "success" of this cult is that they manage to keep just under the radar of authorities that might notice that they abuse and fail to education their children.  Not all the Gothardites might want the fame that the Duggars have.     (Just thinking out loud here.)

 

While it is not that uncommon in many of the No Longer Quivering stories it is clear the girls are still tainted.  It is one of the reasons families don't want it to get out.  As horrible as it is I believe that your right and the girls (at least the ones who are known to be victims) will have problems finding a husband.  I believe this is why only the married girls spoke out.  

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nokidsmom

I am not sure that it is JB who is not eager for HQ suitors.  It may well be the other way around.  The HQ crowd may not trust anyone from JB's family, not just because they may know about Josh but because JB is so clearly driven by his own need for self-aggrandizement.  Also, a prospective husband with a reasonable desire for privacy might not want to think of himself as part of that dog and pony show.

I never thought that JB would object to an HQ suitor, in fact it would be a feather in his cap.  But I have noted that for all the involvement the Duggar family has with the HQ crowd, no courtships have materialized.  I long suspected that many families don't approve of the famewhoring and JB clearly is his own man in terms of that he's not a follower and out for himself..  Even before Joshgate, I have gotten a feeling that fundie families, including even the Bates, are avoiding the family as far as prospective in laws.  Yes, the exception were the Kellers who frankly weren't bright now to figure out what their daughter (or other daughters for that matter) were marrying into.   For prospective sons in law, there's the whole issue of headship and authority and it's very clear that JB will expect to remain in charge. Note that Ben and Derrick are not from fundie families but fairly mainstream, albeit conservation Christian ones, so may have had the perspective (and questions) that other Gorhardite familes have of the family.

 

 

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ksgranola1

The Bates' are on top of their game as far as their show goes & hanging out w/the Duggars on screen might put a damper on that. But the kids seem to be enjoying each other's company w/o the heavy shadow of sex'l misconduct hanging over their heads.

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The Bates kids don't think their parents would veto a courtship, they're on record as saying that eventually they'll be a courtship between at least one of them and the Duggars.

The parents like Joy and approve of her (they did not have to wish her a happy birthday, and praise publicly on the internet, especially in view of the Duggar's bad publicity - they've never done it for another Duggar, not doing it would not have been noticed).

Edited by imokit
riffels
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On 12/5/2015, 8:49:23, imokit said:

The Bates kids don't think their parents would veto a courtship, they're on record as saying that eventually they'll be a courtship between at least one of them and the Duggars.

The parents like Joy and approve of her (they did not have to wish her a happy birthday, and praise publicly on the internet, especially in view of the Duggar's bad publicity - they've never done it for another Duggar, not doing it would not have been noticed).

Yeah. That suggests to me that while Kelly and Gil might view Boob and J'Chelle as 'frenemies', they genuinely like Joy.

However, my hope is that Joy and Carlin run away together to a real accredited college somewhere after the latter turns 18 next year. Make a gofundme if you need to ladies, I have $100 sitting here with your names written on it! 

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xlurker

A couple days late to the working on a holiday party, but I work every holiday--yes every single holiday, except Christmas. My kids come home at Christmas and I want to spend it with them.  I don't work retail, or in an emergency type thing.  Just one of those places that is open every day of the year.  No time and a half.  I hate it, but it's a paycheck and I have electric to pay. :(

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colors_outside15

My gut instinct is that the Joshley situation will make it harder for the older girls to leave. The whole "buddy system" probably helped in terms of safety in the house. Until the older girls know that all the little girls are completely safe, especially their respective buddies, I can't see all of them leaving home. Jill and Jessa being gone means more responsibility for Jana, Jinger, and Joy. I think once Josh has whatever break that seems bound to happen to an adult forced into a bible and labor camp, and is in another state for good or has to be institutionalized or whatever - everything in general will feel much more free.

I had buddies, and the hardest thing I've ever done is escape, and I regret it about half the time and don't regret it about half the time. I cry about it every single night. But, I did do absolutely everything in my power to make sure my buddies were safe first - especially one of them. (The one who slept in my bed every night until he/she was six). My priority was not myself, and the timing was as strategized as was possible for me at the time.

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Mercer

I should add that although as I said, I don't expect any of the Duggar children to dramatically "escape," I do think some changes to Duggardom as a whole are going to have to happen... probably sooner rather than later.

Regardless of their theology, the bottom line is that Jim Bob can't go on endlessly supporting the households being formed by his adult children where nobody works and babies come quickly and regularly. Eventually there's going to be a tipping point where there's no more money left, especially with the TLC revenue train no longer chugging along. 

The Duggars are pretty much going to have to start funneling some of their children in a direction that will lead to becoming gainfully employed. It's simply not possible for one income stream to permanently support all these different nuclear families, especially as more and more kids grow up and marry, and I think Jim Bob has at least enough financial savvy to start having some concerns about it by now.

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I agree that Boob probably wants nothing more than to marry off a daughter to fundie royalty.....I bet her is seething that Gil Bates has 'married off' a daughter to a congressman's son as well as two more to the sons of ATI royalty, while he's married a daughter off to an unemployed teenager. Derick on paper wasn't a bad "catch". After all, he is a college educated guy with a recognised degree from an accredited school and before he quit Walmart to convert "dirty catholic heathens", he had a stable job with benefits and the beginning of career that could have provided decently for a wife and child where they live and had potential to advance within a big company. But.........ATI royalty he is not. And I think Boob would LOVE to have married a daughter off to the son of ATI royalty or a congressman because the Duggars have always seemed like social climbers who loved the show because it sort of 'made' them fundie royalty because of their fame. 

(Edit: I hate saying "marry off" like they are cattle, but that is basically how this culture views girls so.....)

Edited by Lewy
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I think that people are not too keen on marrying into the Duggar family right now but I personally think that the boys will have a harder time finding partners than the girls. As men are supposed to be leaders and providers and Josh has proven himself to be a mess I think many parents will fear the rest are the same. While the girls might be "tainted" I think that they still have a better chance as the family of the guy might feel that a good man will be a good influence on them and that their "problems" can be overcome that way. A bad man on the other hand would destroy a good girl instead. I really hope that if Jinger and Joy want to get married that they will find a good man and that they do not feel they have to accept anyone who asks them because of what was done to them. 

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Sweet Fellowship

Due to the scandals, I really don't think any of the older girls will be leaving. They seem even more entrenched now. There may be hope for the younger girls. I think if someone will leave, it'll be one of the boys.

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