Which Duggar Will Escape First?

[withaj]

I don't know what's going to happen, though I suspect that many of the kids, when grown, will shift to the fundie lite spectrum as a function of necessity.

I do hope that any of the kids (and note that I am NOT speculating here) who might grow up to identify as LGBT in a less restrictive environment find the courage and support to 'leave' in whatever sense might work for them. I don't care if we never find out that 'that's why so-and-so left' -- but it's my fervent hope that no one in that kind of environment, be they Duggar or Maxwell or anyone else we discuss here, feels they have to stay put and live with shame about who they know they are.

[nastyhobbitses]

Well, having read the article that said the film crew found Jenni to be feisty & rebelled about everything she was asked to do; she's what, 10? I don't think she'll last another 8 years.

An Instagram commenter who knew people who worked on 19KaC mentioned that Jenni was feisty and rebellious. Go Jenni!

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Some of them are bound to leave ATI. The families are instructed to have as many children as possible because they expect to lose some kids. 

That said, I agree that they aren't going to "escape" so much as drift away. Their parents and other family members might not even realize it. It'll probably be gradual and understated. Maybe akin to people like me -- my family is very Catholic (though not fundie level), and I'm not. I'm not even 100% certain that I believe in "a higher power." But, I still go to church with my family when they go and I'm around. I still receive the Eucharist. I still pray before meals when the family does. I fuel religious discussions among family members with the bible. I still put out my nativity set every year (well this year I won't, I'll put out my parent's set instead since I'll be home for most of December). I celebrate Christmas and Easter. I sometimes volunteer at different churches (though not for religious reasons -- like a few years ago I worked on a community garden for a local church). 

But my life is very non-religious. When I'm by myself, none of the doctrine that was shoved at me growing up applies to my life beyond the basics (like not killing, not stealing, basic human decenscy, etc). I help people and animals in need because it's something I want to do, rather than something I "need" to do because of religious beliefs."

 

Anyways, back to the topic: I imagine that the Duggar kids will be very much the same way. They'll move away but keep up pretenses. We might not even notice it beyond decisions like girls wearing pants or maybe one of the families sending their kids to a Christian school. Maybe some of the girls will get real careers, and maybe a couple of the kids will manage to get a degree from an accredited school; but I think those would be the most obvious signs of their "moving away."

An Instagram commenter who knew people who worked on 19KaC mentioned that Jenni was feisty and rebellious. Go Jenni!

But so was Hannie, Joy, Jinger, and reportedly (via Michelle) Jana. The girls are allowed to be those things until a certain age, then they're required to train to be proper fundie girls. 

[ksgranola1]

I think that's going to be hard w/Jenni, given the constant face of discontent she exhibits. All I hope for any of them is that they get to go to public school. Think of all the books we read in school that taught us about life. Greek mythology. Earnest Hemingway. Shakespeare. Can you just see them reading Romeo & Juliette? The trouble is, the younger ones don't even know what they are missing out on in Public School. I suppose McKenzie is already at the SOTDRT.

[AmazonGrace]

 

I have known a couple of self-confessed sex addicts, and even at their worst they didn't go around attacking/molesting strangers.  Josh's "history of other molestations," dates to his teen years.  I could see him being verbally obnoxious and paying women unwanted compliments, but lots of taxi drivers in my past did that.  (Maybe they don't any more--I haven't been young and attractive for a while, so I figure the reason taxi drivers no longer come on to me is that I remind them of their moms.)

You may be right that many women wouldn't  get in a taxi he was driving, but I bet others wouldn't notice or care who was driving so long as he stopped when hailed.  Anyway my point is he could find work; he is not "unemployable."  If not driving a taxi then driving a delivery truck, or gardening, or towing or at a call center-- there are jobs he could get.

 

 

Well OK let's say he can find work. Some people employ sex offenders, so it's not inconceivable. 

But Danica is saying that far removed from his teen years, he had problems with understanding how consent works, as recently as this spring. 

[Othello]

But Danica is saying that far removed from his teen years, he had problems with understanding how consent works, as recently as this spring. 

I think that's the most important point. I find it difficult to condemn him completely for his actions as a younger kid—as wrong as it was for him individually, it's almost a natural byproduct of the education he was given. Kids are going to get curious, and if absolutely everything is left to them to figure out, they are going to experiment however they can; sexual function is a fundamental part of the human psyche and leaving a kid in the dark through puberty won't end well. Having been in a somewhat similar situation myself as a preteen with an older sibling, I don't believe it was her depravity, but rather a direct result of my parents' mishandling of the subject. It's wrong, yes, and he bears blame, but I don't think it entirely appropriate to give him personally a scarlet letter because of that situation.

What's most concerning to me is that this has persisted well into adulthood, and the situation with the woman this spring. Is this also a result of his education? There's definitely an element of causality there, but at this point in his life he's had time to get his shit together and the responsibility rests almost entirely on his shoulders. Therefore I'd be a little disturbed if he were to release into the world outside the Duggar universe without getting actual non-fundie treatment beforehand. I hope he changes, but I think it unlikely.

 

[twinmama]

I will go with a male Duggar. They just have so much more opportunity (job outside the home, even as an unmarried Duggar) and emotionally and mentally they are built up and supported more than the ladies. They are told they'll be supporting themselves one day, the girls are told they will be supported someday.

Past a male Duggar, I have no idea. JD perhaps? They all seem so similar and generic Duggar male that I have no idea who would be most likely. The fact that JD isn't married and doesn't appear to be in a hurry or even looking makes me think he's quietly not following their "marry, have kids, be an adult" lifestyle. Much like a long time ago gay men were "confirmed bachelors" I think Duggar men who don't want a million children might just choose to not marry. Not saying JD is gay, but that if he doesn't want tons of kids, maybe he will just quietly choose not to marry as his way of avoiding that.

Same with Jana. For her, my speculation is that she won't vocally go against their lifestyle, but if she doesn't want a ton of kids, maybe she'll just not marry. But totally my unfounded speculation!!

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

I want Jana to escape the most but it would be shocking if she did. Yes, she isn't married yet but her best friends consist of PrIscilla Waller, Michael Bates, and Tabitha Paine. She has also participated in JTTH as a counselor. I think she's too deep into fundamentalism to ever leave and she'll most likely marry a man working at HQ....but damn wouldn't it be something if Jana was the Duggar to escape? The Tell-All would be amazing! 

Josh won't leave his family's lifestyle because it would be more convenient for him to stay on his parent's good side. Jim Bob is going to support Josh and Anna for awhile. The noble thing for Josh to do is to divorce Anna, split custody of the kids, and let her find a man who will respect and genuinely love her. Sadly, he isn't a noble man. J&A will stay married for the near future but be miserable as hell. Josh will most likely fuck around in some way again. 

 JD and Joesph will be more like Zach Bates and find a pants wearing Christian woman to marry. I have no clue about the middle boys.  Honestly, the only Duggar I see leaving in an explosive way is Jenni. It's going to take awhile since she's only 8 or 9 but she's already looks irritated by her family. If Jenni leaves, she will probably not be super close to her parents. This wouldn't be a problem because Jenni doesn't seem attached to Michelle or Jim bob....she's actually rather icy towards them(or stoic as MeChelle says). As long as Jenni stays close to Jill, I think she would prefer not to live a fundie lifestyle with a bajillion people in the house. 

 

Many of the kids will drift(some more than others) but I only one or two will actually "escape". 

[Lewy]

Honestly, the only Duggar I see leaving in a explosive way is Jenni. It's going to take awhile since she's only 8 or 9 but she's already looks irritated by her family. If Jenni leaves, she will probably not be super close to her parents. This wouldn't be a problem because Jenni doesn't seem attached to Michelle or Jim bob....she's actually rather icy towards them(or stoic as MeChelle says). As long as Jenni stays close to Jill, I think she would prefer not to live a fundie lifestyle with a bajillion people in the house. 

Jill may have her flaws and she may be one of the most Koolaid drunk of all the kids, but I can't see her disowning Jenni if she runs. Jill is annoying but I don't think she's THAT awful that she's stop talking to Jenni. 

[Mothership]

I agree with most posters that Josh has in his own way already left.   He either will come back tamed and forgiven and as smug as ever--which isn't going to sell well even with the leghumpers because even the LHer's are not going to buy into it 100% or he's going to walk away with or with out Anna.  If we want the tell all with all the dirty details (including some crap on how TLC manipulated the kids as well) then Josh is one of the best options.

Jessa is the next best bet for the tell all revolt.  She may just decide to jump ship (and that includes leaving Bin behind as well) and tell us everything.  She's conniving and in this case it might work in her favor.

Not going to happen with Jill.  The Dillards at best will become somewhat fundie lite, but they're never going to give it up (which may be a hold on Joy and Jenni as they may stay in line with Jill).

Please, please leave Jana and Jinger.  They really seem to be almost Stockholm Syndrome at this point.  There only hope would be for someone to grab them and undo the brainwashing. I don't see revolt in their eyes I see hopelessness.

It's wide open with all the others.  JD has slowly gone away, but I'm not sure he'd ever rat out the family--he just wants to be free of the crap.

Hanna might be the first girl to slip away.  She's been so close to Jackson that at some point, she's got to question how come he gets opportunities as a teen that are denied her.  If she goes the other lost girls will likely follow.

I think the Howlers will slip away like JD.

The brand as we know it will not fully last into the next generation.  At best it will be a diluted fundie version from the Dillards. 

Of course, like everyone, this is all speculation and wishful thinking on my part!

 

[EmCatlyn]

Well OK let's say he can find work. Some people employ sex offenders, so it's not inconceivable. 

But Danica is saying that far removed from his teen years, he had problems with understanding how consent works, as recently as this spring. 

That is a different issue.  

What will happen down the road is anybody's guess.  I doubt very much that he will be able to turn himself into a good fundie husband who prays away the sin and so forth.  So sooner or later he may act out in some way. And if he acts out badly enough, he may get into deep trouble.  But maybe he won't.

As for Danica's accusations, I take them with a grain of salt.  Her story is believable, but that doesn't mean it is true. I don't think we can possibly know.  

Josh may be a lot worse than we can imagine; he may be guilty of all kinds of vices and sins.  Or he may not be the monster of depravity some of us see him as.  

 

[Furbabies]

Ohhhhh what article is this?

I saw it on one of Duggar snark Instagrams... famyfriday, freejinger ( no relation), duggar_duggarsky.

whoops, sorry, old info.  Thought I was nearer the end of the thread.  See Emcat's post.

[AmazonGrace]

That is a different issue.  

What will happen down the road is anybody's guess.  I doubt very much that he will be able to turn himself into a good fundie husband who prays away the sin and so forth.  So sooner or later he may act out in some way. And if he acts out badly enough, he may get into deep trouble.  But maybe he won't.

As for Danica's accusations, I take them with a grain of salt.  Her story is believable, but that doesn't mean it is true. I don't think we can possibly know.  

Josh may be a lot worse than we can imagine; he may be guilty of all kinds of vices and sins.  Or he may not be the monster of depravity some of us see him as.  

 

Only two people know for sure, those who were there. But if she made it up completely I am very surprised that we haven't heard any lawyerly denials until now.

[drivingmishcrazy]

I want Joy, Jinger, JD, Jer and Jed to be the ones. I doubt any but the last two will.

I have a fantasy of the youngest four girls leaving together and doing a Growing Up Duggar book like the oldest four, but it being like a tell-all or at least a boom documenting the weird shit that went on that they remember. Still a stretch but a little more plausible.

Really though, I'm waiting for Josie to hit puberty and watch shit hit the fan. I see it in her to be wild and break free, and I think if she bolts, it'll be delicious. I could see dyed hair, facial piercings, and clubbing before she's even close to 21. Kid's spoiled, but she's also kind of sassy and probably about as feral as her brothers.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I want Joy, Jinger, JD, Jer and Jed to be the ones. I doubt any but the last two will.

I have a fantasy of the youngest four girls leaving together and doing a Growing Up Duggar book like the oldest four, but it being like a tell-all or at least a boom documenting the weird shit that went on that they remember. Still a stretch but a little more plausible.

Really though, I'm waiting for Josie to hit puberty and watch shit hit the fan. I see it in her to be wild and break free, and I think if she bolts, it'll be delicious. I could see dyed hair, facial piercings, and clubbing before she's even close to 21. Kid's spoiled, but she's also kind of sassy and probably about as feral as her brothers.

I've never really understood this whole "Josie will be our savior" mentality. The child is featured more than others, and sure she's the baby, but I'm 97% certain that she's also going to receive the most brainwashing from Michelle. Michelle is attached to her as the trophy child. She's the miracle child. She has to be perfect. You can't have an imperfect miracle child. It doesn't matter how old Michelle and JB are, they'll focus all their energy on making sure she's their golden child and the one who shows the world "how great God is." The only way I don't see this happening is if both her parents die and the other Duggar kids use that as an opportunity to flee the cult, or her parents suddenly latch on to a different religion that has completely different views on what it means to be perfect. 

[nastyhobbitses]

I've never really understood this whole "Josie will be our savior" mentality. The child is featured more than others, and sure she's the baby, but I'm 97% certain that she's also going to receive the most brainwashing from Michelle. Michelle is attached to her as the trophy child. She's the miracle child. She has to be perfect. You can't have an imperfect miracle child. It doesn't matter how old Michelle and JB are, they'll focus all their energy on making sure she's their golden child and the one who shows the world "how great God is." The only way I don't see this happening is if both her parents die and the other Duggar kids use that as an opportunity to flee the cult, or her parents suddenly latch on to a different religion that has completely different views on what it means to be perfect. 

My reasoning for betting on Josie as the one to break free if Jessa doesn't do it is that she's likely learned to be extremely manipulative. Josie knows that she's the Golden Child. She knows that she gets a lot more leeway than her siblings ever got. She's likely figured out by now that she can get her way if she plays her cards right. I'm sure that by the time she's old enough to become a brood mare, she'll have manipulated JB and Michelle into giving her a lot more freedom. And they'll probably grant it to her because they just won't care anymore. They already pretty much don't.

[EmCatlyn]

Only two people know for sure, those who were there. But if she made it up completely I am very surprised that we haven't heard any lawyerly denials until now.

We may not be hearing lawyerly denials because negotiation is taking place and the Duggar lawyers have advised silence.  I am no lawyer, but it seems that in order to deny that he battered/abused her, Josh would have to admit he was with her (or prove that he wasn't).  Since they haven't denied that he was with her, I tend to believe that he was. But they may be arguing that Danica has first to prove that they had contact, then to convince a judge or jury that she did not agree to the kind of rough sex Josh engaged in.  

If this is the argument, and if there is any doubt/confusion about the dates when she was with Josh and/or any witnesses that could put him elsewhere around the time (to throw general doubt on the story), Danica may be willing to settle for less than if she had a stronger case.  And it may be that so long as Josh's lawyers can point out that he has not admitted to being with Danica and that she is going to have trouble proving it because she is unclear about the dates or whatever, then not denying the accusation of brutality is a way of not admitting that he was with her at all.

Silence, in other words, could be strategic, not a sign of guilt.

I am just guessing here. It is entirely possible that he did what Danica alleges. It is also possible that he all he did was within what he and Danica have agreed on, but it was unpleasant in some way and this got blown up in her imagination when she found out who he was.  Or it could be she is making it all up.   Or it could be she has confused him with someone else. Or ...

We can't know.  So I am not going to rush to the conclusion that Josh is a danger to all women and children with whom he comes in contact.  

[SassyPants]

If JB was/is willing to employ Ben, when he has 10 sons, 7 between the ages of 19 and 12yo who are unemployed, and  living at home,  and probably 3 of those who are finished with any sort of formal education (the twins will be 17 on 12/30 or 31 and are likely done with the SOTDRT), I am sure that he can find something for Josh to do.

[AmazonGrace]

 

We can't know.  So I am not going to rush to the conclusion that Josh is a danger to all women and children with whom he comes in contact.  

I'm sure Josh is not a danger to all women and children with whom he comes in contact.  But if I was going to employ him, the ideal situation would be that he's not a danger to ANY of the women and children he comes in contact with.

Sorry Josh, I just don't think any of this is a merit in the job market. Why would I employ a man with no particular skills and a shifty reputation if I could employ someone with more skills and less question marks on his/her morals?

[Suz8710]

I know we don't know much about the middle boys but there's something about Jason especially in the last few years that make me want to put $ down on him escaping. He doesn't strike me as super religious and from some of the guys he's pictured with on IG, they seem more worldly, wear trendier current clothes for guys, and also reading some of their comments. I don't think he's super close to many in the family (except Josiah & twins, but that could simply be a result of their ages in the family), but that's just my observations, maybe some of you disagree.

[Shadoewolf]

I see Josh sort of in comparison to Ray Rice.  In the sense that a lot of teams in the NFL said Rice was a good player and he could be an asset to their team BUT they wouldn't pick him up because they would not/could not deal with the constant publicity that comes with him. Tebow is the same, nobody wants to deal with the media circus.

So should Josh ever manage to learn some sort of employable skill, a lot of people are going to turn him down because they won't want to deal with all his baggage. First all his hate filled crap with FRC, molesting his sisters and Ashley Madison....nobody is going to want to admit they'd hire such a despicable person, let alone have their business bombarded by the media.
But I think its the opposite in Anna's case, Josh's epic screw-ups mean 100's of people would hire her, just to give her a chance at a normal life and a means of supporting her kids on her own. And I think a lot of business owners WOULD attempt to give her as much privacy as possible.  If only she would leave!

[EmCatlyn]

I'm sure Josh is not a danger to all women and children with whom he comes in contact.  But if I was going to employ him, the ideal situation would be that he's not a danger to ANY of the women and children he comes in contact with.

Sorry Josh, I just don't think any of this is a merit in the job market. Why would I employ a man with no particular skills and a shifty reputation if I could employ someone with more skills and less question marks on his/her morals?

Well, it would depend on who was doing the employing and what the job was. You and I might not hire him, but I bet there are people, not necessarily humpers, who would not see his history as a problem.

Yes, his chances of employment are greatly diminished, but for gardening, construction, hauling, etc, showing up sober and putting in a day's work is more important than "morals."  Some employers might even prefer him over other applicants because he is "legal" and speaks English.

Anyway, I don't see that he could only work for his father, though that might be the best deal for him.

 

[Drala]

Something that may have kept the Duggar kids in line up until very recently has been the need to keep up a squeaky clean public image due to the show, w high has been the source considerable income.  Joshgate deep-sixed the TLC cash cow, but it hasn't really set in just yet that the game has changed.  Doesn't help that Jill and Jessa are Counting On.

Still, as time passes and it dawns on the adult kids that they no longer need to play a compliant, obedient role to keep themselves and their siblings fed and clothed, there's likely to be greater drift into doing their own thing, especially when no one is watching.  Some of the kids seem pretty good at flying under the radar.  The best thing that happened to the younger ones is losing the TLC contract.

[GapLover]

I tried to start my own thread by couldn't figure out how on the new forum.

 

I also wanted to post from my main account, ElderPrice, but couldn't remember my password. Anyway, I'm a huge luker but I've only posted about how I worked in retail for several years and how the family would come in all the time and be disruptive. Anyway, me and my fiancé were out Black Friday shopping and saw Jana. Wasn't a big deal, people were walking by her and saying her name and such. I didn't think anything of it until
I looked at who she was with. She was with a group of people 7-8, Nearly all seemed to be grown men. I didn't recognize any of them. I think she had probably 2 younger boys with her, but I wasn't looking too closely. I walked right by her and didn't think it would be newsworthy to tell you guys until I looked at the group she was with and then my fiancé refused to go back and by and look with me. Lol. Anyway, she looked adorable. It was around 8:30 on thanksgiving night, at the pinnacle mall. She was wearing a calf length skirt with flats, red sweater and a scarf. She's seriously beautiful in person, very petite too. Ive never see any of they guys before (like I said, huge luker here). Wondering if Jana has her own group of friends...

[Valerie3kids]

Well, it would depend on who was doing the employing and what the job was. You and I might not hire him, but I bet there are people, not necessarily humpers, who would not see his history as a problem.

Yes, his chances of employment are greatly diminished, but for gardening, construction, hauling, etc, showing up sober and putting in a day's work is more important than "morals."  Some employers might even prefer him over other applicants because he is "legal" and speaks English.

Anyway, I don't see that he could only work for his father, though that might be the best deal for him.

 

I think Josh's best chance/choice will be to work for JB. He will not be expected to do much or put in many hours. Many employers who may normally hire him will take a step back due to the media circus and the fact he does not know that woman are equals in the work force. They can not take the chance that something inappropriate will fall out of his smarmy face.

I don't think he can go the Uber route as they require an extensive background check and I do not think he could pass it. Plus, where is he going to Uber in the small town they live in? Everyone who requests an Uber driver gets their picture and name which that alone would put off many many single female riders.