Which Duggar Will Escape First?

[Finduilas]

I feel like more and more the question should be changed from 'Which duggar will escape first?' to 'Will a duggar ever escape?'.

Though I could see one of the older boys pulling a Zach Bates. 

[AmazonGrace]

Anyone might start having some doubts if there are serious health related and financial problems connected with their eventual constant stream of pregnancies.. Everybody can't handle dozens of children and it might cause at least a pang or two to wonder if God really wants you/your wife getting pregnant again at the risk of leaving the thirteen already existing children motherless and if you can even feed them all on both Mondays AND Tuesdays.

 

Josh already mentally checked out a long time ago I think but it's hard for him to leave the fold now that he's pretty much unemployable.

[ksgranola1]

Michelle will eventually start having grave health issues. When you are pregnant, your immune system is compromised & hers has been suppressed most of the last 25 years. But you know they will keep that under wraps until radaronline gets wind of it. And Jana will stay until Josie is 18. I wonder if it crossed Jana's mind when Michelle was sick w/Josie, if she was going to have to bring up the rest of the brood. And no one would ask her; it would just be assumed.

[sj3339sta]

Josh has already left.  I do believe he is a Christian, but he bore the majority of the fundy crap growing up.  There were a lot of expectations to carry on the family brand.  He had NO outlet for sexual tension as he watched his parents make out and couldn't even beat off in the shower or under blankets in his bed.  And let's face it, watching porn isn't the best idea on the planet, but it is a hell of a lot more "normal" than feeling up your sisters.  My guess is he has been watching for a LONG time.  Cheating on Anna was a natural progression.  My hope for him is that he gets some REAL help, learns appropriate boundaries regarding sexual activity, and he and Anna can go about their business, both satisfied, happy, and not teaching their kids the same shit their parents taught them.

I also think JD is slowly on his way out, and has been for a while.  Jana does not have a form of income, which makes it harder for her.  If she can find some way to get out on her own, I think she will.  It is going to be MUCH harder for the women to leave.  My money is on one of them finding a guy who is not daddy approved and bolting that way.  They are brainwashed that they NEED  a man.  That God desires them to have the headship of a human man.  Daddy for now, then husband.  Hell, I think even grandma falls under JB's headship.

[nokidsmom]

Josh already mentally checked out a long time ago I think but it's hard for him to leave the fold now that he's pretty much unemployable.

Agreed and the irony is that Josh's "rebellious" actions have basically trapped him.   He's not employable save by either his dad or some family leghumper who wants to give him a chance.   But either way, he's tethered to the family now.  JB is not going to let go of him, I suspect there's more on Josh than we know and furthermore I suspect JB suspects that there's more than he knows.  I don't think he can trust even now that there won't be other surprises lurking out there regarding his son, thereby damaging the family brand further.   And we know how important the family brand is to JB. 

[WhyNotJulie]

Being kept in the dark about your own life and staying married to someone that doesn't want to be married to you is a sentence. If he stays and marks time he holds Anna back from moving on and possibly finding someone who loves her. I hope he decides to leave and Anna gets adequate financial support.  

I agree with this, but in Anna's specific circumstances I think she may be better off staying with Josh.

She probably can't move home to stay with her family - It doesn't sound like the Kellers, save for maybe her brother, would be too happy about her divorcing her headship. I'm not sure they'd accept her back with open arms, and if they did take her in, it would likely be under a significant amount of disdain. Plus, the kids are Duggars too. They have copious numbers of aunts and uncles and cousins who, honestly, they deserve to have a relationship with, regardless of how much of a fuck their father is.

She's not going to get re-married to another fundie man - She's damaged goods within the fundie community, she's not going to find another fundie man to marry her and take care of her kids (who, by the way, wouldn't be HIS kids). There are enough unmarried, virginal fundie women out there that Anna, baggage and all, is not going to be swept off her feet by some young Gothard fella.

She won't marry outside the faith - I think the chances of her leaving the fundie south and marrying someone outside of the cult are basically zero. She grew up in this, it's her whole life, I really do think that she believes the fundie viewpoints to her core (a la Jill),  and she's probably convinced that at some level, Josh's infidelity was her own fault. She believes that she and Josh are joined as "one" in God's eyes, they have four children together... I just don't see her leaving.

She won't do it on her own - She was raised to be a helpmeet, she is completely uneducated, she is all but unemployable, and she's got FOUR young children to feed. By Duggar numbers, four kids is nothing - but by everyone else's standards, and even for women with jobs who were taught to be self-reliant and independent, that's a lot of kids to raise as a single mother with no income and no support system.

I really think that the best of many bad options here is just to suck it up and stay with Josh, and I think she'll likely come to the same conclusion. Hopefully, Josh will have stopped drinking the fundie kool-aid by this point and they'll be put in a good position to move forward together in a more measured, rational way.

Sorry if that's an unpopular opinion.

[Four is Enough]

I'm with the "Josh has already left" crowd. I'm shocked that not a single snippet of information has surfaced about him. I don't think he's dead in a ditch or anything, but I do think he might be holed up somewhere hiding.. from both the public AND his parents/cult. The only question is what's he doing for money? Maybe Anna's in on it and sending him money, and just waiting for the time she and the M kids can join him.

I think John David has eased himself out quietly, too. Jana's pretty much done the same thing. While she's still there and raising kids, she has NOT gotten a headship of her own and started turning out a passel of chillen. You can't tell me that nobody has ever asked for her. I'll never believe it. I think she's just turned them all down because she doesn't want to perpetuate this mess of a lifestyle.

I agree that more of the younger ones will probably at least go fundy lite.

[nellautumngirl]

I always imagine Jenni and Jordyn leaving together, like Cynthia and Lydia Jeub. What is keeping them in this family? Nobody pays any attention to them, and it will be much worse when they are teenagers, they are going to have to listen to Michelle whine about babies all day and serve them on a daily basis. Of course there's no telling where Jessa and Jill will be at this point, but I can't see Jill refusing to see the child she raised, even if she is officially shunned.

[Catey]

I would agree in most ways that Josh has left. I think the thing that binds him to his family still is $$$$. If he has millions of self made dollars he would be outta there. Why stick around to hear all the shit FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, loyalty? Love? not in his case I don't believe.

 

BUT a ruined man limping away in disgrace is NOT what I envision when I imagine the great escape.

 

I know everyone thinks that Jana is a lifer,but she has that don't push me to far cause I'm close to the edge look in here eyes. (Don't blame her at all)

So I could see her just completely shocking everyone and finding some semi-innocent way out and never looking back.

I also think that Justin has a decent  chance to flee in a few more years.

Who am I kidding, After the great Josh debacle the amount of guilt thrown around in that family will keep everyone exactly where His Headshit wants them, under his thumb. Maybe as the TLC gravy train dries up and he has to actually support that many teenagers at one time he will suddenly get a little freer on the reins

 

Who am I kidding, the only one that I can say stands an honest chance is Bubba.... Run Bubba Run.

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

Agreed and the irony is that Josh's "rebellious" actions have basically trapped him.   He's not employable save by either his dad or some family leghumper who wants to give him a chance.   But either way, he's tethered to the family now.  JB is not going to let go of him, I suspect there's more on Josh than we know and furthermore I suspect JB suspects that there's more than he knows.  I don't think he can trust even now that there won't be other surprises lurking out there regarding his son, thereby damaging the family brand further.   And we know how important the family brand is to JB. 

 

Yeah it's a kind of fundie Hotel California I think... you can check out but you can never leave, not without some semblance of an income. If you want to eat...

 

Maybe they have some funds secreted away from the 19k fame but it can't last forever with a gazillion kids.

 

 

[mango_fandango]

By "pulling a Zach Bates", do we mean marry someone who isn't ATI? 

And thinking about it, I kind of agree about Josh. He probably thought that as the first-born- and as the first son- he was The Chosen One and that he could get away with murder cos he's such a Jeebus-lover, but since Joshgate things have gone tits up. 

[nokidsmom]

 

Yeah it's a kind of fundie Hotel California I think... you can check out but you can never leave, not without some semblance of an income. If you want to eat...

 

Maybe they have some funds secreted away from the 19k fame but it can't last forever with a gazillion kids.

The Hotel California reference is appropriate.

And any money squirrelled away won't last forever considering how many people are reliant at this point, kids, grandkids, sons in laws who quit real jobs or won't get one.

[doggie]

I doubt ANY of them will. Not until JB is old and feeble.

only when the money runs out and poverty sets in I think.

[Marissap]

I think it's a toss-up between Jana and Jinger. They still hang out with Amy and they go shopping on Thanksgiving night!!

I know this is not the point of this thread but I am sad for jinger. She does not look well. I hope she's ok. 

[louisa05]

There was a girl I taught at Christian school who regularly gave impassioned testimonies at chapel, carried around a copy of I Kissed Dating Goodbye for an entire school year, never went anywhere without carrying a Bible, won the "Eagle Award" for her class four years straight (we sarcastic rebels among the staff referred to that as the "Best Christian Award"), prayed fervently for the "conversion" of her already Christian classmates (they weren't as Christian as her after all), spent her summers on various mission trips, and opted out of college to join a church program where she basically lived at church for years (Assembly of God's "Master's Commission"--google it with the word "cult" for stories). 

She found me on Facebook several years ago. She was about to marry the man she had been living with for three years. The wedding was on a beach and presided over by a friend not a clergy person. They now have two children. They do not attend church. She lists herself on there as "spiritual but not religious". She posts liberal political stuff constantly. She works at Whole Foods where she ran a pre-Thanksgiving wine tasting event earlier this week. 

Shortly after she found me via social media, she told me that she was so hard core about the religious stuff then because she was, in a way, trying to prove to herself that it worked and she really believed it. 

The point of this story: 

The ones who leave are sometimes the ones who appeared to be the most brainwashed. 

[ari_belle]

I'm one of the few who don't think anyone's gonna leave. I think Boob and J'Chelle have a much tighter hold on everyone now since the scandals. Josh may keep fucking up, but he'll always go back to the fundie life, for fear of hell and fear of having no one left to support him (he now has very little ability to get a job, after all). They all lost their gravy train and they don't want any more salacious stuff coming out, because they're desperately trying to get back on TV.

Also, we don't know what goes on inside their kids' heads. We can speculate all we want, we can say that they seem like they want out, but no one knows. We see the shit on TV, which is filtered, and make lots of assumptions. Their cult teaches them to suppress their emotions so much that they are probably not even in touch with how they're really feeling. To me, it's always seemed that lots of FJites underestimate the severity, complexity, and longevity of ATI brainwashing.

[lascuba]

I can't believe I feel a little bad for Josh. On the one hand, he's done just about every dick move in the book, and leaving his under-educated, unemployed wife and four small children would be just the dick move cherry on top of the dick move sundae. But on the other, leaving her might be what's best for them both. And it sounds terrible/cynical, but probably best for the children as well.

I can go either way on whether Josh would leave the fold, but I wouldn't consider it a dick move at all for him to leave Anna as long as he continues to financially support her* as well as staying involved with this children. It would suck for her, sure, but no one is morally obligated to stay married in order to avoid hurt feelings. 

*And I mean alimony for life. You believe/d that women shouldn't be educated or financially independent and married and had four kids with an uneducated woman who has next to zero financial prospects? You need to pay for that for the rest of your life. That's what you get for being a patriarchal tool. 

[nausicaa]

I can go either way on whether Josh would leave the fold, but I wouldn't consider it a dick move at all for him to leave Anna as long as he continues to financially support her* as well as staying involved with this children. It would suck for her, sure, but no one is morally obligated to stay married in order to avoid hurt feelings. 

*And I mean alimony for life. You believe/d that women shouldn't be educated or financially independent and married and had four kids with an uneducated woman who has next to zero financial prospects? You need to pay for that for the rest of your life. That's what you get for being a patriarchal tool. 

Yes, as someone said on another thread, it would be a gift to Anna in a way, allowing her to find someone who really loves her.

And completely agree on the alimony for life in this case. I also think both fathers should help support her and their grandchildren as well. You're gonna talk the talk about women not going to college, using birth control, or working outside the home? We're too fragile and need a man's protection? Then when things get tough, you better step it up gents. 

[SledCat]

The Duggars like to give the illusion of independence. For example, their kids get their drivers license at a young age. Yet, it really is a gilded cage. I would bet currently, if one of the kids asked to go to public high school, or community college, they would be shut down at lightning speed.

I still believe one of their kids will make a real change to the dynamic of the household. Once one kid successfully breaks a rule, that may make the path potentially easier for other children. My money is on one of the "forgotten children" in the middle of the pack.

 

[KelseyAnn]

I honestly think Jessa. 

I mean, she might be smug and arrogant but she isn't stupid. I'm almost positive she married Ben just to get away from the homestead. 

I'm sure she had this elaborate plan she's concocted, and after she's amassed a small fortune of her own, she's gonna grab Jinger and (if she's in a good mood, Ben) and take off somewhere sunny and warm where she can do whatever she wants. 

 

[Natalie22]

There was a girl I taught at Christian school who regularly gave impassioned testimonies at chapel, carried around a copy of I Kissed Dating Goodbye for an entire school year, never went anywhere without carrying a Bible, won the "Eagle Award" for her class four years straight (we sarcastic rebels among the staff referred to that as the "Best Christian Award"), prayed fervently for the "conversion" of her already Christian classmates (they weren't as Christian as her after all), spent her summers on various mission trips, and opted out of college to join a church program where she basically lived at church for years (Assembly of God's "Master's Commission"--google it with the word "cult" for stories). 

She found me on Facebook several years ago. She was about to marry the man she had been living with for three years. The wedding was on a beach and presided over by a friend not a clergy person. They now have two children. They do not attend church. She lists herself on there as "spiritual but not religious". She posts liberal political stuff constantly. She works at Whole Foods where she ran a pre-Thanksgiving wine tasting event earlier this week. 

Shortly after she found me via social media, she told me that she was so hard core about the religious stuff then because she was, in a way, trying to prove to herself that it worked and she really believed it. 

The point of this story: 

The ones who leave are sometimes the ones who appeared to be the most brainwashed. 

This is why I think it would be wrong to completely write off someone like Jessa.  I think people like her (and myself to some extent) are looking for the 'right' thing.  When you find that, then I assume she believes you should follow the rules to a t if that is what you truly believe is the truth.  If things start to unravel, then it becomes easier for someone who is so devote to change their beliefs who has that kind of personality.

[AmazonGrace]

I can go either way on whether Josh would leave the fold, but I wouldn't consider it a dick move at all for him to leave Anna as long as he continues to financially support her* as well as staying involved with this children. It would suck for her, sure, but no one is morally obligated to stay married in order to avoid hurt feelings. 

I think that ship has sailed anyway...After screwing a porn star there's just no way to have a marriage without hurt feelings anymore. Whether he stays or goes it will always be there.

[Valerie3kids]

I agree to an extent that JD has left, but all his toys and money still from Daddy. His constable job does not pay. So where is he getting a paycheck from? Is there something I missed? I doubt he will do anything to mess up the fact he has private planes at his disposal to fly about at whim. What kid at that age has that? He may not drink the kool aid but he knows how to walk the line.

I think JB has far more of a hold than any of us on the outside can realize. I fear he has a horrible temper when crossed so no one crosses him. They have all learned that is a subject better left untested. I feel he is the type who constantly "gloats" over how much he has done for the family and how far he has brought the family. As if no one else in the household has any worth or does anything. I think that is a huge problem with Jana. He has beaten this stuff into her head for so long that it is all she knows and she also believes it. It isn't like she has a good support system in her mother telling her she can be someone?! Her mother is an addle brained moron, most likely self medicated fool who can't get herself out of the rain.

Josh is out but I feel a lot of his problems are also the same as his father. They will never ever admit to it. But, JB is smarmy to nth degree. No adult male talks like he does in front of his daughters or treats his wife life whore and believes that it is ok. That is not Christian. It is smarmy and perverted. No Bible how you read and twist it will say it is otherwise.

I am not sure if any of them stand a chance at leaving. Unfortunately, they have all made the mistake of being dependent on JB for their money. Money talks. I am sure this is something they are not allowed to ever forget. Where they money is coming from. Mr. Smarmy, JB. If the money hole dries up, then we may see more drifting. But, until then those two idiots who have procreated way too many times are in charge. What a waste. Who knows what some of those children could have been if they have been allowed to dream and become producing adults (not baby producing). They may have actually ended up with children they could have been very proud of for their accomplishments not how many children they have created or how many Bible verses they could memorize and post on Twitter.  

 

[Percy]

I thought John a David had a towing and odd jobs business.

I also thought I read somewhere that Jana is not seen much on the show as she has questioned her upbringing and has refused JB's plans to marry her off.  I can't remember where I read that though.

[19 cats and counting]

With half their kids 18+ now, I thought a few would have flown the coop by now.  My hopes were Jinger, Josiah, and Joy based on their personalities, or in Joy's case being the odd girl out.  

My hope is lost on Jinger, as she seems way too brainwashed for hopes of escaping.  Josiah had a year of Gothard boot camp to break him.  Jury's still out on Joy, but something tells me she may pull an Alyssa Bates and marry young just to get the hell out of Dodge.  She and Jana are the only two Duggar sisters that seem to have friends outside of the family (Jana being the only non sister/SIL bridesmaid in Priscilla Waller and Michaela Keilen's weddings, and Joy being a known BFF of Carlin Bates).  

Other hopes.  I can see Jackson and Johannah running away together.