Vandenhurks: English missionaries to England! Funded by US churches!

[Iamhispurity]

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Germany already Protestant? It's not even like these folks can pull the "saving the ebil Catholics" card there like they do when doing mission work in places that are already predominantly Christian.

Na, it is about 30% Protestant, 30% Catholic, 30% non-religious and 10% other.

[HereticHick]

Well, Mitt Romney did his LDS mission in France, after all.; : )

I wish someone would sponsor me on a mission trip to Capri. 

"America's Laziest Missionaries" sounds like a great new reality series.

[blessalessi]

"America's Laziest Missionaries" has made me smile all afternoon.

We should have a competition ti find America's Most Lazy Missionary for the next Free Jinger rapture party week.

In the interests of equal opportunities I'm sure we can find enough UK and Ireland Lazybones to create our own league tablee

We could even have a debate over whether reverse missions are a form of cultural appropriation!

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Well, Mitt Romney did his LDS mission in France, after all.; : )

I wish someone would sponsor me on a mission trip to Capri. 

"America's Laziest Missionaries" sounds like a great new reality series.

or a new post count lol

[Cleopatra7]

I think a lot of fundie missionaries must think that you have to be their brand of fundie or else you aren't a "real Christian," which would explain why they're sending missionaries to places that are already largely Christian, whether Zambia, England, or Atlanta. While one could say that England is "post-Christian," it's not like the English have no idea who Jesus is and are hearing about him for the first time from American missionaries or that England is devoid of churches. But even if the English were packing in churches they way they used to, these missionaries would still be going, because I'm sure they think Anglicanism is "doing Christianity wrong," much like how those other missionaries probably think Christians in Atlanta are also wrong. The thing about fundie missionaries in Atlanta is hilarious to me, because I'm from Atlanta, and practically every street corner has a church of some kind on it. Atlanta may lack many things, but Jesus isn't one of them.

[nastyhobbitses]

 

 

And I'm 62 and same applies to 1950s and 60s. Almost all state schools started the day with a religious assembly, and Religious Instruction(RI) or Religious Education (RE) was a compulsory subject in  all state  school, and in those days the religion was Christianity. The teaching of religion is still mandatory in state schools, although nowadays it is not christocentric, but usually taught as comparative religion.

I think this is a good thing to teach. I remember that learning about Islam in middle school social studies (just a year after 9/11 happened) did a lot to help demystify the religion for me and made me realize that the terrorists did not represent the whole of Islam, and that while it has its flaws like any other religion, Islam is actually very interesting and preaches a lot of good things. Teaching kids about religions other than the ones they practice gives them an open mind and the ability to think critically about what they and others believe (and realize that while it's OK to dislike aspects of a religion, it's silly to hate someone just because they pray to a different god or pray to your god differently from how you do it).

[blessalessi]

The situation varies greatly. It is hard to do comparative religious education well and many schools rely on volunteers in the community to fill gaps in assembly and the curriculum. People like the Vandenhurks exploit this by going in and teaching Christianity as fact, not as their personal belief system.  In one of the prayer letters they describe persuading a primary school to put 600+ invitations to vacation bible school in the boxes of stuff each child was taking home at the end.of term.

I feel strongly about this because I was a child from a non-religious family who was evangelised through Sunday School and then pressured to "witness" to my family.  It was a horrible thing, as a young child to bear the burden of believing my family were heading for hell.  As a young teen I always felt pressure to be extra good, even when my friends from church families went through normal teenage stages of questioning, becaise I felt I needed to please both my church family and my own, because hellfire was the outcome otherwise.

 I eventually left Christianity behind in a great deal of distress, burned out by Vandenhurk's style of evangelism which aims to use children to "reverse" the decline in Christianity.  It places burdens on young people that we are too young to understand and it leaves scars that last for generations instead of bearing the fruit about which they wax lyrical.

[sawasdee]

The situation varies greatly. It is hard to do comparative religious education well and many schools rely on volunteers in the community to fill gaps in assembly and the curriculum. People like the Vandenhurks exploit this by going in and teaching Christianity as fact, not as their personal belief system.  In oje of the prayer letters they describe persuading a primary school to put 600+ invitations to vacation bible school in the boxes of stuff each child was taking home at the end.of term.

I feel strongly about this because I was a child from a non-religious family who was evangelised through Sunday School and then pressured to "witness" to my family.  It was a horrible thing, as a young child to bear the burden of believing my family were heading for hell.

I left Christianity behind in a great deal of distress, burned out by Vandenhurk's style of evangelism which aims to use children to "reverse" the decline in Christianity.  It places burdens on young people that we are too young to understand and it leaves scars that last for generations instead.

What scares me there is I can see some parents using this as free childcare in the school holidays.

[samurai_sarah]

I have heard of American missionaries to Germany, too. It would be plausible for them to proselytise in the eastern part of Germany, which has the biggest atheist majority in the world (if I am correct), but instead they tend to go to the southern part - which is the utmost pious one. I don´t get fundie logic.

The South is the most Catholic part of Germany, doncha know?  Wrong kind of Christian and all that.

 

ETA: I'm slow. Sorry, didn't see all the other responses.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

To aspiring FJ missionaries to Italy: if you're going to spread atheism or agnosticism or more general anti-fundamentalism you are welcome, I would house and feed you (I don't live near Capri, so you should make do with Venice,  the Alps and the Garda Lake). If you want to spread your specific brand of craziness though,  be warned that we have plenty of homegrown nutbags no need to mix with foreign strains, thanx. Also the average Catholic regards other Christian denominations as heretics, so no nice feelings to spare.

[blessalessi]

What scares me there is I can see some parents using this as free childcare in the school holidays.

They do, and who wouldn't? Most unchurched parents have no idea what goes on!  If someone offers a week of free activities, at the same time the local council swimming pool announces free swimming for school children all holidays,  and the state-funded youth service announces vacation taster sessions in various crafts, how is the busy and often poverty-stricken parent to know the difference? These days all of them produce glossy posters, showing smiley faces and confirming that staff have completed criminal background checks and basic childcare training... and the churches will likely be known for their presence at school assemblies, so they appear to be sane and normal until the kids hear the altar call.

I know many churches in my area that blatantly use bible club to preach the gospel.  They finish the week with a call to be saved, and then they announce winners of prizes that can be collected if the kids bring their parents to church on Sunday.

[sawasdee]

They do, and who wouldn't? Most unchurched parents have no idea what goes on!  If someone offers a week of free activities, at the same time the local council swimming pool announces free swimming for school children all holidays,  and the state-funded youth service announces vacation taster sessions in various crafts, how is the busy and often poverty-stricken parent to know the difference? These days all of them produce glossy posters, showing smiley faces and confirming that staff have completed criminal background checks and basic childcare training... and the churches will likely be known for their presence at school assemblies, so they appear to be sane and normal until the kids hear the altar call.

I know many churches in my area that blatantly use bible club to prach the gospel.  They finish the week with a call to be saved, and then they announce winners of prizes that can be collected if the kids bring their parents to church on Sunday.

So a cross between self interest and capitalism is how they find recruits? What great faith they have in their message I hate that they are using the children as an entryway to the families;it is exploitative to say the least.

[constantgardener]

Now had a chance to look at their website. WTF. For starters they claim Peterborough for the East Midlands when most people round here would say we are in East Anglia. Then they drivel on about how there is little visible poverty in England. OK, it's not the Third World, but they certainly haven't looked very closely at Peterborough if they think that. There are some real social problems in this area, of both urban and rural poverty. Peterborough has a lot of recent immigration, both Asian and Eastern European which has caused issues with overcrowded, poor housing etc. Their church that they attend is in Orton Malborne, which is not exactly the most salubrious area. It was built as part of Peterborough new town in the 60s and has the architecture to match. Going to watch this one closely!

 

[Gossamer1]

I have heard of American missionaries to Germany, too. It would be plausible for them to proselytise in the eastern part of Germany, which has the biggest atheist majority in the world (if I am correct), but instead they tend to go to the southern part - which is the utmost pious one. I don´t get fundie logic.

It's much easier to preach to the choir. 

[blessalessi]

Now had a chance to look at their website. WTF. For starters they claim Peterborough for the East Midlands when most people round here would say we are in East Anglia. Then they drivel on about how there is little visible poverty in England. OK, it's not the Third World, but they certainly haven't looked very closely at Peterborough if they think that. There are some real social problems in this area, of both urban and rural poverty. Peterborough has a lot of recent immigration, both Asian and Eastern European which has caused issues with overcrowded, poor housing etc. Their church that they attend is in Orton Malborne, which is not exactly the most salubrious area. It was built as part of Peterborough new town in the 60s and has the architecture to match. Going to watch this one closely!

 

Yeah, I admit, I checked that on a map because I had not heard of THAT Peterborough. One one webpage, they describe it as Peterborough, Cambridge (not Cambridgeshire).  Since Natalie grew up 45 mins away, it isn't a great recommendation of her own education.  And yet as the godly wife, she will be teaching the women and children.

 

I kind of really want to see them get a cameo role in one of the Channel 4 My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding shows.  

I actually hate exploitative documentary shows but a My Big Fat Gypsy Bible School  (in association with America's Laziest Missionaries) series would persuade me to switch on the telly box for sure! 

[sawasdee]

 

 

I kind of really want to see them get a cameo role in one of the Channel 4 My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding shows.  

I actually hate exploitative documentary shows but a My Big Fat Gypsy Bible School  (in association with America's Laziest Missionaries) series would persuade me to switch on the telly box for sure! 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!11!!ELEVENTY11!!11!!!TIMES PLEASE!

[nastyhobbitses]

The situation varies greatly. It is hard to do comparative religious education well and many schools rely on volunteers in the community to fill gaps in assembly and the curriculum. People like the Vandenhurks exploit this by going in and teaching Christianity as fact, not as their personal belief system.  In one of the prayer letters they describe persuading a primary school to put 600+ invitations to vacation bible school in the boxes of stuff each child was taking home at the end.of term.

I feel strongly about this because I was a child from a non-religious family who was evangelised through Sunday School and then pressured to "witness" to my family.  It was a horrible thing, as a young child to bear the burden of believing my family were heading for hell.  As a young teen I always felt pressure to be extra good, even when my friends from church families went through normal teenage stages of questioning, becaise I felt I needed to please both my church family and my own, because hellfire was the outcome otherwise.

 I eventually left Christianity behind in a great deal of distress, burned out by Vandenhurk's style of evangelism which aims to use children to "reverse" the decline in Christianity.  It places burdens on young people that we are too young to understand and it leaves scars that last for generations instead of bearing the fruit about which they wax lyrical.

That is incredibly creepy and exploitative. It reminds me a bit of what happened to a friend of mine; today he tells it as a funny story, but it's really creepy in retrospect. He was at a fair with his friends one day when he was around 10 years old, when a man invited him into a tent and started asking him a lot of weird questions about death and heaven and stuff like that. He thought it was really weird. Then the man asked if he would like to go to heaven. My friend says yeah sure, and the man started pressuring him to come to his church. My friend backed out with an "uh...I have to go now". Today he laughs about it and says that that's how he accidentally and completely unintentionally became a fundamentalist Christian (he's agnostic), but the fact that a grown man would try to pressure a child he's never met before into converting to a religion is scary and at least 3 kinds of immoral.

[unforgiving]

I'm British and had mandatory RE in school (I'm 30 so it wasn't that long ago!). The parents of one of the kids in my school were Buddhist, and the Mum came to do meditation with us one lesson. We all thought it was really cool and loved it, and I still remember that lesson to this day. I wonder what kind of uproar would be caused by such an activity happening in a school on the bible belt? My parents (being the laid back, non-zealous British people that they are) really didn't give much of a crap about it. I can't imagine that being the case in certain parts of America.

[blessalessi]

That is creepy and I'm glad the boy got out fast!

The bible club thing is so much more insidious.  The churches are full of friendly people who really do love kids and put on great activities.  I doubt my Sunday School teachers ever thought for a minute how exploitative it could be or what it might feel like for a child caught between two families. For all the teen talk was about how you cannot be yoked to unbelievers, and how we could never be happy as adults if we married a non- Christian, I don't think anyone ever considered the unhappiness and stress that was placed on children who grew up simultaneously yoked to a non-believing family, and a church family that preached about sin and eternal separation for the unsaved.

[Anny Nym]

The South is the most Catholic part of Germany, doncha know?  Wrong kind of Christian and all that.

 

ETA: I'm slow. Sorry, didn't see all the other responses.

When you tell fundie missionaries ^tm  about Perchtenläufe, will that make them come even more faster because they think we are ebil  satanists or make them stay the heck away because they think we are ebil satanists...? Questions over questions with this people ! 

 

I really love the "Learn about England" part. Fundie grifters: That´s just the kind  of people I want to learn about England from .  Like learning all about elegant make-up from Jill Rodrigues.

[FoxyMoxie]

That is creepy and I'm glad the boy got out fast!

The bible club thing is so much more insidious.  The churches are full of friendly people who really do love kids and put on great activities.  I doubt my Sunday School teachers ever thought for a minute how exploitative it could be or what it might feel like for a child caught between two families. For all the teen talk was about how you cannot be yoked to unbelievers, and how we could never be happy as adults if we married a non- Christian, I don't think anyone ever considered the unhappiness and stress that was placed on children who grew up simultaneously yoked to a non-believing family, and a church family that preached about sin and eternal separation for the unsaved.

I used to be a helper/leader in such a holiday Bible club. It really was with the best of intentions - I thought it was a great thing for the kids (admittedly in quite a wealthy and churchy area of Sussex so maybe not the worst ever exploitation). Now I would find it uncomfortable, although I do think churches can do holiday clubs without the Jesus hard sell and I do think it can be a good way for churches to serve the community - I mean more like a creche type thing with optional Jesus.

[blessalessi]

Yeah, I went on to be a "home grown" youth leader, though I was in a different church then and although there was gospel teaching, there were no explicit calls to say the sinners prayer.

I don't have objections to churches serving the community but, in evangelical settings, the gospel preaching is usually inextricably linked because the believers who are leading the group genuinely believe that the most important thing is a person's salvation.  I can't think of a single example from my church background where anything was done without discussion about sharing testimonies or having "good conversations".  In that context, children can't be safe, imo, because the gospel message is taught as a deliberately devisive thing. 

As an additional pressure, we were always taught that children should obey parents, so it was always acceptable to miss church if your parents wanted you at a family event. But even that didn't feel like permission to totally enjoy our time with the family, because we were encouraged always to be a good witness.

[accountingstar]

John Shrader went to the wrong country. He could have had all of the comforts of home in England without having his sending church ship him everything. He could have had a fake British accent like Madonna. Instead of wearing traditional tribal clothing, he could wear soccer jerseys or tweed. He children wouldn't be exposed to Malaria. Becoming a missionary in Europe seems like the way to go.

Maybe when Jim Bob can no longer afford to support all of his children, they can become missionaries to Europe or Australia or New Zealand.

I love the idea of a documentary called America's Laziest Missionaries. There would be too many for a one hour show.

[salex]

A few years ago I found an American family with four kids who were sent to Sweden as missionaries, paid for by a church in the US. I tried to find them now to see how they are doing and how many they have converted, but their blog is gone.

I'm not a huge fan of proselytising and I don't know why they pick a country that has been Christian for 1000 years and where it was illegal to not be a member of the CoS until 150 years ago. Why?

 

Because clearly any Christians in Sweden are the wrong kind of Christian!  

[Clementine]

Because clearly any Christians in Sweden are the wrong kind of Christian!  

Yes, the churches even do same-sex marriages so we clearly need to be lectured on hating teh gayz, distrusting teh government, female submission, breeding like rabbits and wearing frumpers. Any American fundie coming here would be as exotic as if an alien landed.