University Yoga Class Cancelled Because Cultural Appropriation

[Maggie Mae]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/23/university-yoga-class-canceled-because-of-oppression-cultural-genocide/

Wanted to get FJ's thoughts on this. 

[Firiel]

Honestly, I don't know.  I never know where to draw the line between cultural appropriation (bad) and cultural exchange (good).  And I feel like I'm not a great person to draw that line, being the whitest white person ever.  I'd love to hear what other FJers have to say about the topic in general.

[VelociRapture]

This is tricky. I can understand where people are coming from when they say it is - it originated in a very specific place at a specific time and has a specific spiritual significance. And from what I've tried to read on the topic, true Yoga goes far beyond the asanas (poses) that define our idea of Yoga.

But it's also an excellent form of self-care as well. Not only can (western) Yoga help with flexibility, but the breathing methods can really help with anxiety - something I battle on a daily basis.

I think the biggest issue here is the fact that there are people making tons of money off of something that never belonged to them - it belongs to living, breathing people in India and the religion many of them practice. And I know that the Indian Government has spoken out about the topic in the past, so I'm inclined to lean towards their side.

I think the compromise broached in the article - call it stretching and don't use the pose names - could have been a good medium, especially because this was a class designed for students with disabilities. I also think a good compromise in general could be that people start learning about the religious aspects of Yoga, without needing to actually practice the religion; kind of a way to show some respect for the culture and religion the practice is taken from? At the very least, give credit where credit is due and allow people the right to own their history and culture.

But (like @Firiel); hi by the way!) I'm also not Hindu or Indian, so I don't think I really have a right to say either way.

[Georgiana]

First of all, I think the only thing that can be "owned" is something physical.  Words, practices, religions, activities, skills, knowledge, etc. have been exchanged by humanity for the entire existence of the species.  Exchange of the abstract and learning are things that make us human.  We are literally hard wired in our brains to watch and learn new things when they are demonstrated to us by others.  You can't turn this off.  It's one of the deepest and most key functions of the human brain.  It's natural and normal to adopt beneficial habits, skills, words, etc. that you see used around you.  It's a key element in bonding and communication.

Secondly, the whole idea of "cultural appropriation" is not universal.  It's sort of a Western thing AND something that has been created very recently.  TRY to explain "cultural appropriation" in the PRC and attach a negative connotation to it.  IF you manage to get your point across (very difficult), you'll get laughed at and told that this is normal.  I did ask what they thought about Westerners adopting Chinese stuff.  The response: "GREAT!" (It indicates the significance of China; it is a sign of respect for Chinese ways; It makes us feel good because we also like Western things so it is like we are equal friends)

Some people are vegetarian for religious reasons.  That does not mean that EVERYONE who is vegetarian is appropriating their religious practices.  They don't "own" vegetarianism.  Similarly, SOME people in India (not all) practice yoga for religious reasons.  Others do not.  Some people in India practice yoga strictly for health reasons.   Neither party "owns" yoga.  Yoga (like vegetarianism) is a part of their religion, but not exclusive to it. By the way, India has many cultures.  Do you think these different cultures borrow from each other?  You BET they do!

Here's an interesting counter argument:  Many native-born Chinese EXTREMELY DISLIKE American Born Chinese.  The reason they give is that ABC's (as they call them) try to dominate the narrative of what it "means" to be Chinese, disregarding native born Chinese opinion.  I have seen native born Chinese tell off ABCs for telling ME off for being "too Chinese" in China.  I mean yelling.  I mean strangers chewing these people out because they were American born and tried to tell me what aspects of Chinese culture were "OK", and the China-born Chinese feel that American born people don't get to decide that.  Many native born Chinese (and Indians and many other countries) are extremely willing to share their cultures and become at best confused and at worst upset when people try to block others from doing it.  And if, for example, Indians born and raised in India are extremely pro sharing a certain aspect of their culture, is it fair for Western Born people of Indian decent to block that?  Or is that just another example of the West trying to control the narrative, telling non-Western countries what to think, and prioritizing THEIR values (and boundaries) over the boundaries of non-Western peoples?

[HearMeRoar]

I have a close friend from India, and she is also Hindu. She doesn't mind Americans using parts of her native culture, but it does drive her crazy when credit is not given where it is due. We are both very into natural health, and most of her frustration revolves around that area. She hates reading articles that are describing something "new and wonderful", that has been practiced in India for thousands of years already!

[Mama Mia]

I think Georgiana is absolutely correct.

I find it mind boggling that the fact that a nation and their cultural practices were oppressed and suppressed and devalued by the west is used as a rationale ( from the article ) for suppressing the spread of those cultural practices. How does that make any sense?

 

I also find it really insulting to the majority of the worlds population that there is this extremely narrow definition of what is considered " normal" and mainstream and already part of the accepted culture and absolutely anything outside of that very narrow view of society has to either be  tossed out ( if you're a xenophobic racist ) or treated as fragile and in need of extra paternalistic, condescending protection and isolation ( if you're a liberal college student ). 

 

 

[Black Aliss]

Thing is, yoga as it was practiced in India centuries ago is a very different thing. Modern yoga has its origins in the fakirs, impoverished people from the lowest caste who performed acts of contortion for money, and has virtually nothing to do with an ancient and arcane spiritual practice. You probably wouldn't find yoga studios in India except maybe places that cater to rich American New Age-er types.

So, if you're practicing yoga as a form of exercise, or "mindful stretching", no it's not cultural appropriation. But if you're doing yoga as a so-called "ancient spiritual practice", fine-tuning your mudras, yeah, it is cultural appropriation in the sense that you are attributing your made-up spiritual practice to some exotic "others". That said, I have heard tell of students at liberal arts campuses in the US chastising others for wearing printed fabrics and claiming cultural appropriation, because those designs come from other cultures.

[2manyKidzzz]

This young woman was volunteering to teach this class to people with disabilities. As I understood it. So they are depriving some disabled persons of something they clearly liked. So, what is the point of that. She was not pretending to be Hindu....and maybe if she had converted too Hinduism it would be okay? I think yoga is good for people and I don't know what these people were doing. Maybe she can teach it somewhere else. 

[louisa05]

There is some concern within the Hindu community in the U.S. about cultural appropriation when it comes to yoga: 

http://www.hafsite.org/media/pr/takeyogaback

[7thchild]

I like my yoga, it makes me feel better and I intend no disrespect to its originators. If anyone tries to take it back, then I get all of the things they like that are of Irish or German heritage. Everyone send me your Bailey's and your Beck's.

I confess that I don't get why everything is offending someone, whatever happened to,"imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

[Peas n carrots]

Thing is, yoga as it was practiced in India centuries ago is a very different thing. Modern yoga has its origins in the fakirs, impoverished people from the lowest caste who performed acts of contortion for money, and has virtually nothing to do with an ancient and arcane spiritual practice. You probably wouldn't find yoga studios in India except maybe places that cater to rich American New Age-er types.

So, if you're practicing yoga as a form of exercise, or "mindful stretching", no it's not cultural appropriation. But if you're doing yoga as a so-called "ancient spiritual practice", fine-tuning your mudras, yeah, it is cultural appropriation in the sense that you are attributing your made-up spiritual practice to some exotic "others". That said, I have heard tell of students at liberal arts campuses in the US chastising others for wearing printed fabrics and claiming cultural appropriation, because those designs come from other cultures.

Some liberal college types are as bad as fundies. Really some people just want to feel superior to others. Self righteous douchecanoes!

[Coldwinterskies]

This obsessive need to police other people's words and behavior that some social justice warriors seem to have is ridiculous. If you are worried about lower caste people in India, then do something concrete to help them like raising money for medical care or volunteering in an orphanage there or something. Throwing a tantrum over a bunch of white people in Canada doing yoga is not constructive and not helping anyone. The only purpose it serves is to give the person trying to police others a smug sense of superiority for being less racist than thou. 

[Cleopatra7]

I think it largely depends on the power dynamics between the two groups in question. The PRC is really pushing the export of Chinese culture abroad as a form of soft power to compliment their hard power (i.e., military) and their economic prowess. China is currently in a position where cultural exchange with the West can be more or less equal. This is a change from how it was about 150 years ago, when Chinese culture was largely considered degenerate and heathen by Westerners, and given as evidence for why that country was so backward. If one looks at Native American culture, it's much different, since they are basically a defeated people, militarily and culturally, physically isolated from mainstream society and mired in dysfunction. Many whites, especially those espousing New Age positions, have gotten rich co-opting Native American culture, especially the spirituality of the Lakota tribe, much to the ire of natives themselves. Some native leaders like George Tinker believe that Native American religious rituals should be off-limits to outsiders, both as a matter of self-care for native communities and as a matter of cultural integrity. This is an old article, but the issues remain the same:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/357236/NEW-AGE-USE-OF-INDIAN-RITUALS-DRAWS-FIRE.html?pg=all

 

[Seven Severn]

Like others, I don't know where cultural appropriation begins or ends, but what about turning this on its head? If Indians (or any other non-Western culture) dress in Western-style clothing is that cultural appropriation? Jeans and shorts and t-shirts are native to Western culture. Should those of us in the West start chastising non-Westerners for appropriating our style of dress? Why can't they stick to their own style of dress, goddamnit? No Converse high-tops for people who don't speak American English like Jesus spoke!!!!!1!!!1!11!!!eleventy!!1!!!1!! If I eat a burrito without giving ample thought to the culture that gave birth to the burrito am I being disrespectful? I'm just eating a fucking burrito! And it just goes on and on and on. Most societies have learned and borrowed from each other and with travel and the internet that has accelerated. The world is gradually becoming more homogeneous. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Some things are lost but other things are gained. What's the balance? When do we dig in our heels? I dunno. Cabernet anyone?

[Coldwinterskies]

Many whites, especially those espousing New Age positions, have gotten rich co-opting Native American culture, especially the spirituality of the Lakota tribe, much to the ire of natives themselves. Some native leaders like George Tinker believe that Native American religious rituals should be off-limits to outsiders, both as a matter of self-care for native communities and as a matter of cultural integrity.

Where did the white people learn those things in the first place though? Presumably from native people who didn't mind sharing what they knew.  If people within a culture want to choose not to share certain things with outsiders then they certainly should have the right to keep their traditions to themselves, but if the knowledge is already out there then the horse is out of the barn. 
Trying to decide who has "earned" the right to use certain knowledge that is within the public domain seems to imply that there is some universal objective truth about this issue, as if it were some revelation from a religion.

 

[defraudingjezebel]

I don't think its fair to say that this is PC gone wild or crazy liberal college students gone wild. That's dismissing the whole group of people who do have an issue with their culture being commodified and consumed by people who don't understand the context of it, and don't respect it and contort it to suit the way they want to see this other group of people. I don't know if wholesale canceling the class is the best way to go, but we sure as hell need to be critical of the things we appropriate from other cultures and the power dynamic surrounding it. 

[Cleopatra7]

Like others, I don't know where cultural appropriation begins or ends, but what about turning this on its head? If Indians (or any other non-Western culture) dress in Western-style clothing is that cultural appropriation? Jeans and shorts and t-shirts are native to Western culture. Should those of us in the West start chastising non-Westerners for appropriating our style of dress? Why can't they stick to their own style of dress, goddamnit? No Converse high-tops for people who don't speak American English like Jesus spoke!!!!!1!!!1!11!!!eleventy!!1!!!1!! If I eat a burrito without giving ample thought to the culture that gave birth to the burrito am I being disrespectful? I'm just eating a fucking burrito! And it just goes on and on and on. Most societies have learned and borrowed from each other and with travel and the internet that has accelerated. The world is gradually becoming more homogeneous. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Some things are lost but other things are gained. What's the balance? When do we dig in our heels? I dunno. Cabernet anyone?

As I said in my previous post, the power dynamics make it a bit different when we speak of Indians dressing in Western clothes. For starters, Western style clothing has displaced whatever the native clothing used to in many cultures, even in those climates where native clothing might be more logical (here I'm thinking of parts of sub-Saharan Africa and other tropical zones). The Western style business suit has become the de facto uniform of a world leader, whether you're Obama or Xi Jinping. If Mr. Xi showed up to meet a Western leader dressed in the clothes of a traditional nineteenth century Chinese scholar scholar, people would talk, and not in a good way. This could be why women in North Korea tend wear traditional Korean dress, as a sign that they are not affected by the pressure to wear Western style clothes. Of course, North Korea being North Korea, there probably aren't too many options with regard to clothing styles. 

Where did the white people learn those things in the first place though? Presumably from native people who didn't mind sharing what they knew.  If people within a culture want to choose not to share certain things with outsiders then they certainly should have the right to keep their traditions to themselves, but if the knowledge is already out there then the horse is out of the barn. 
Trying to decide who has "earned" the right to use certain knowledge that is within the public domain seems to imply that there is some universal objective truth about this issue, as if it were some revelation from a religion.

 

Many of the "plastic shamans" who have taught bastardized versions of Native American religion were simply opportunists on the make in the great American tradition of hucksterism and making stuff up. Authentic Native American religion was technically outlawed until the American Indian Religious Freedom Act was passed in 1978:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Religious_Freedom_Act

This is a good resource about "plastic shamans" and the importance of Native American communities having control over their culture.

http://www.newagefraud.org/index.html

This is a good statement:

http://www.newagefraud.org/olh3.html

Unlike the Abrahamic religions, Native American religions were never meant to be universal, but were particular to a specific group of people living in a specific location. If Native Americans say that they want to keep their religious rituals to themselves, I think we should respect their decision.

[J'Lurker]

So surprised to see that this is actually international news. I thought it was popping up in my facebook news feed because it's my alma mater (go gee gees?). University applications are due in the next six weeks in Ontario, so I get the impression early application numbers haven't been as high as they'd like and they're gunning for some publicity. 

[Jeebusismycopilot]

I saw it on my facebook feed as well and went to the facebook page for the University's Centre for Student's with Disabilities (the ones who shut down the classes) They originally make a statement that says:(bolding my emphasis)

 

Notice to all CSD users (un message en francais suivra):

As a responsible students union we have to ensure that we are always reevaluating the programming of all of our centres to ensure that they are representative of the service-users and the student community at large, to whom we are accountable and responsible.

The yoga program put on by the Centre for Students with Disabilities (CSD) has been operating for a couple of years and has never been reviewed. That is why a decision was made by CSD staff to temporarily suspend the program, while putting on other activities to meet students’ needs, to make sure that what is done not only best represents the mandate of the centre but also represents the students who use the centre. It is this review process, which is important to ensure that the SFUO evolves as students needs evolve, that will best allow us to meet these diverse and ever-changing needs of the student body at the University of Ottawa.

The SFUO executive, as well as Centre for Students with Disabilities staff believe that it is important to look at the good and positive work that has been done and see how it can always be improved. That is why we have taken this semester to do this review with a mind to reintroducing new programming in the winter semester.

We would like to stress again, the fact that the classes were not cancelled. They were put on hold to allow the service centre to do proper consultation amongst themselves, with service centre users, and other interested students, and this is needed to provide better programming.

Once again, we are excited to reintroduce a program in the second semester that is beneficial for the CSD service-users now and in the future.

 They began to receive a lot of backlash for this decision and then started to comment on this post stating their reason for ending the class:

no one attended the classes so that's why we ended them, its not that hard to understand people, the fact that disabled people are getting harrassed over this is ridiculous

 Now, here's the thing. If they paused the classes in order to re-evaluate, that's one thing. But NOW they are stating it is simply from lack of attendance. If that was the case initially, then why not state that? From all reports the class had "up to" 60 people (and I know that doesn't mean it had 60) but it means there were people there and there was interest. So their new position of "no one attended" simply doesn't make sense. If no one was attending, then there would be no need to cancel it, as it basically came to a natural end. 

 

As for cultural appropriation, we have had many meetings and workshops about dealing with cultural sensitivities. I am  a  grade one teacher and we are working on ways to share our culture and heritage in ways that are positive and educational without being hurtful. We have to walk a fine line because some parents may take offence. What is usually the case however, is the child and family of culture x is happy to share with the class and the "uptight pinot swilling soccer mom" (I can't think of a better term - it's what we use at work-  shows you how often it comes up!) is the one screaming "think of the children! what about cultural appropriation!We are making a mockery of x!1!1!ELEVENTY!!!"  We live in Canada. It is a cultural mosaic. Heck, we live in Toronto. It's a hive of multiculturalism and our classrooms, businesses, churches/temples, community centres etc are all examples of the wonderful cultural mix in this region. 

I am Christian yet I went to a Jewish school from junior kindergarten through grade 5. I was given dreidels and we made our own menorahs. I used to go to my friend's house for Seder. I still to this day light my Menorah and say the prayers and I am getting giddy and hungry just thinking about latkes (my friend's mum makes the NUMMIEST latkes and I am so excited she is bringing them over next weekend!!) 

Vancouver BC has a large population of Chinese and Scottish decedents.  Because Chinese New Year and Robbie Burns Day are  usually celebrated around the same time, they have Gung Haggis Fat Choy. A unique mishmash of both cultures celebrated together. Is that cultural appropriation? I think instead it is a fun celebration of human spirit and really good food (yes, even haggis. I love me some haggis!...don't judge :P)  

Is it ok for everyone to dress in green, wear "Kiss me I'm Irish" buttons and drink themselves into a stupor on St. Paddy's day? (I am keen on any holiday that gives me an excuse to drink Bailey's for breakfast. I'm looking at you too, Christmas!) And if that's ok, then what about getting legless on tequila for Cinco de Mayo?  

Musicians and artists have been borrowing from cultures for centuries. Is that wrong? 

 

We are all influenced by our experiences - whether through travel, education, or family traditions. 

 

 

[Clementine]

We're constantly told by politicians and media that multiculturalism is what we should adapt to and aim for. I don't see why screaming "cultural appropriation" is helpful in a multicultural society. Does this mean that only people of a certain faith/ethnic origin is allowed to do certain things and that it's off limit to everybody else? I just don't see how that would help with integration, it's just causing more conflicts and division.

Who complained about the yoga class? Was it a practicing hindu or a pasty white student who felt that he or she made the good deed of the year by making a fuss because somebody else, from a different religion or culture, might feel offended? It's usually the latter. 

I feel sorry for the people with disabilities who won't be able to go to their yoga class.

[Jeebusismycopilot]

 

Who complained about the yoga class? Was it a practicing hindu or a pasty white student who felt that he or she made the good deed of the year by making a fuss because somebody else, from a different religion or culture, might feel offended? It's usually the latter. 

I feel sorry for the people with disabilities who won't be able to go to their yoga class.

It's the latter I'm afraid. As it is in my school. The ones who get their panties in a bunch are usually the pinot swillers who sit around and find ways to be incensed and offended on behalf of others (who never asked them in the first place!)

[nastyhobbitses]

Now, I agree that it's shitty when people act like yoga is some kind of new awesome thing when it's been around for thousands of years, or when people make up spiritual mumbo-jumbo to go along with the poses that has nothing to do with Hinduism. I also don't like the "namaste, bitches" merchandise I've seen on Pinterest and other sites. That's disrespectful. And yoga did sort of get started in the West by being this "OMG SCANDALOUS EXOTIC" thing very much rooted in orientalism. But the way I see it, the practice of yoga by Westerners who don't act like total tools about it is sort of like non-Christians who celebrate a secular version of Christmas (in fact, in some countries, Christmas has become almost like a Valentine's Day focused on romance). If a non-Christian walked into a church on Christmas Eve and started putting "bitches" after liturgical phrases, acting like they themselves invented Christmas, making up borderline nonsensical religious backstories for Christmas traditions (I'm looking at you Kirk Cameron), and charged people thousands of dollars to attend their version of Christmas while denouncing the Christians as backward, weird, or deviant, that person would deserve a slap upside the head. But if you find meaning in a tradition and treat it and its originators respectfully, I think that's OK.

[sawasdee]

@Jeebusismycopilot

I am going to introduce Gung Haggis Fat Choy to my part of Thailand, which has a large Thai-Chinese community, and a lot of expat Scots - they get haggis flown in for Burns Night, but this could be epic! Is wearing tartan mandatory?

[Iamhispurity]

@Jeebusismycopilot

I am going to introduce Gung Haggis Fat Choy to my part of Thailand, which has a large Thai-Chinese community, and a lot of expat Scots - they get haggis flown in for Burns Night, but this could be epic! Is wearing tartan mandatory?

Is it in the southern part? Cause I lived in there for sometime and I was told that the biggest thai-chinese communities are there.

[sawasdee]

Is it in the southern part? Cause I lived in there for sometime and I was told that the biggest thai-chinese communities are there.

I'll pm you.