Bates Family Part 5

[AngelGirl8811]

I'm a redhead so being pale comes as part of the territory. It's always slightly worrying when you see those health things that say "People with red hair, pale skin, multiple moles and who've been sunburnt in the past have an increased risk of skin cancer" cos oh fuck do I tick those categories. Of course, it only says "increased risk" and apparently some skin cancers aren't that malignant/deadly, but it's a bit worrying nonetheless. 

-Snip-

From one redhead to another, is there a way for us to avoid being sunburnt? I mean sunblock doesn't do it for me somedays! 

[feministxtian]

I was raised by a narcissist, and had trouble believing my own memories...until I really got to talk to friends and family after my mother died. It was wonderful to discover that I wasn't making things up, that I was accurately remembering things.

I feel sorry for the Duggar kids, living in that toxic atmosphere.

[Kelsey]

While Kelly and Gil Bates have the same cultic beliefs as the Duggars, they are also more successful as parents. Their children seem to be fairly well educated and able to function in the outside world. Two of the grown kids have careers of their own (Zach and Erin) and Michael and Alyssa seem to be quite happy in their roles as wives, Michael and Alyssa both worked prior to marriage, one as a nanny, the other in a flower shop. The Bates kids don't seem to have been as isolated as the Duggars.

The Duggar kids have no real-world skills. If it wasn't for JBoob bankrolling them, they'd be destitute.

The Bates seem to have a bunch of kids because they enjoy their kids, they seem to be more hands-on parents.

Just some observations...I know the Bates are potentially even more batshit crazy and entrenched in ATI.

 

 

Alyssa worked post marriage cleaning office buildings as well.

I think the huge difference is that the Bates family comes across like actual people, on the show and on social media. The Duggars seem like drones.

[SassyPants]

The bit about not allowing adults to get educated, work and live life according to their own choices is what makes the Duggars so odd and dysfunctional.

JB has imprisoned his children; handcuffed them so that they have no chance of living independent lives away from him.

What kind of normal family refuses to allow their adult offspring to work?????? WTH

EFF JB.

Those 19 were/are prisoners.

[socalrules]

I think Gil and Kelly have raised their kids with a better ability to function in society. Yes, their belief system is repugnant but they have still raised their kids in such a way that they can still be out in the world. Jim Bob and Michelle don't trust their parenting enough to allow their kids to do much of anything outside of their presence. No one other than Joseph has been allowed to go to college, no one can have an outside job, no one can have an outside interest that isn't Duggar related. Gil and Kelly have to know that by allowing their kids to go to college, have jobs, have individual interests, that they are taking the chance that their kids will use the opportunity to walk away from the belief system. Yet, they allow their children a chance to fly. Jim Bob and Michelle make sure their kids can't make it out the front door. And I will just say it. The Bates kids come off as more curious and intelligent. They seem more in touch with their feelings as well. I am still waiting for a Duggar kid to say something intelligent or that sounds like critical thinking was required. They are just robots. 

 

[feministxtian]

I don't know if its because the Bates parents are college grads or came to ATI after having a few kids or what, but they seem to actually have an almost more balanced view of their belief system. I really don't hear the kids parroting the "ATI party line" much at all. All the married kids seem to have married for love. and none of them really seem to have the almost rabid baby fever that the Duggar spawn have. Zach and Whitney just celebrated Bradley's first birthday with seemingly no announcement on the horizon, Erin and Alyssa seem to be happy with the one they have...Michael hasn't announced yet, we shall see with her. All three seemed to have competent medical care during their pregnancies, they all delivered in hospitals with OBs. Contrast that to the Duggars. The M kids were not birthed with OBs, Jill and Jessa had disasterous deliveries, one had a C-section, the other one almost bled out.

Seems that maybe the Bates kids are a little bit more firmly grounded in the real world.

[sisterwives]

I don't know if its because the Bates parents are college grads or came to ATI after having a few kids or what, but they seem to actually have an almost more balanced view of their belief system. I really don't hear the kids parroting the "ATI party line" much at all. All the married kids seem to have married for love. and none of them really seem to have the almost rabid baby fever that the Duggar spawn have. Zach and Whitney just celebrated Bradley's first birthday with seemingly no announcement on the horizon, Erin and Alyssa seem to be happy with the one they have...Michael hasn't announced yet, we shall see with her. All three seemed to have competent medical care during their pregnancies, they all delivered in hospitals with OBs. Contrast that to the Duggars. The M kids were not birthed with OBs, Jill and Jessa had disasterous deliveries, one had a C-section, the other one almost bled out.

Seems that maybe the Bates kids are a little bit more firmly grounded in the real world.

I actually do wonder what the different between the families is in regards to this. I do think that college education plays a part and probably when the parents met. Gil and Kelly were a little older and had already been "out in the world" a bit, both in uni. Jim Bob and Michelle were really young, out of high school, and Jim Bob seems to get off on the high of knowing that a geek like him got and reformed the hot, immodest cheerleader.  

So I know why Kelly and Gil would be more willing to let the kids go to college, though. They went and even if Kelly went "just" to get her MRS degree, she still got something out of it and seems to really enjoy teaching the children, even stuff like sciences (thinking back on Carlin learning what seemed to be high school level chem). Jim Bob and Michelle's "teaching" is rooted in preparing the kids to do manual labor and homekeeping.

[16strong]

I think he looks a lot like Paul Ryan too.

I don't know, Bradley is pretty flipping cute.  Right now he wins the prize as cutest for me.

I don't know about that. Allie Jane is pretty damn cute, too.

[Kittikatz]

Man, I could have written this! I'm pale enough that even high end foundations don't come in a pale enough shade... And both my parents were born in Brazil (I'm first generation American). Though the shape of my features marks me as the genetic offspring of my parents, I'm weirdly pale given the rest of my family's golden glow. 

I've heard "but you don't LOOK Brazilian" hundreds of times. Hundreds, I tell you. 

similar situation here - appearance does not match much of ethnicity.... and I stand out so much when I'm with my family that most people dont think we are related.. My mother used to sew matching outfits for us so people would know that I was with her because my dead white skin that burns in a heart beat topped with red hair, (courtesy of my Norwegian Grandpa) looked nothing like anyone else in our community. Sometimes people - usually those who share some similar background - notice that my features and body type don't quite match up with the pigmentation, but for the most part, I am taken for Northern European, and people won't believe me when I tell them otherwise. My mother is currently suffering from an autoimmune disease that has caused her to loose all the melanin in her skin. Now people are assuming the same Northern European heritage of her and someone in a store actually asked us if we were mother and daughter... First time that's happened in my life! 

[withaj]

Hi fellow palies! I didn't think Chad looked pale in that picture at all 

I'm not quite redhead-level pale, but close. And I'm not quite a redhead, but close. I have brown eyes, though, and apparently that means that even though my skin is really light, I'm less susceptible to skin cancer? Or something. Some weird genetic thing that I can't find a source for at the moment.

The worst thing about my pale skin isn't the color -- usually the very lightest makeup shade in at least a few of the higher end brands is light enough -- but how easily my skin "breaks" -- stretch marks take forever to fade.

[Mela99]

The Bates make very attractive kids, and their grandkids are absolutely adorable. Much more photogenic family

[grandmadugger]

I wonder what the Duggar kids think about their friends the Batesssess?  I mean there's gotta be some "UH WHY?" going on right?  Is JD sitting there going, "So Zach had a failed courtship and got to do regular dating with Whitney and Lawson's running all around with social media and singing songs I've never heard of, meanwhile I'm over here flying my stupid ass brother to rehab and my dumbass father to some political event."  If I were Jessa I'd be jealous as all get out of Allysa getting to wear whatever she wanted to and no one is blowing a gasket.  If Jessa put on a pair of jeans I would hear JB and Meechelle here in Kansas.  

I'm sure part of why the kids were allowed jobs is because they needed the money.  Their core values may be the same but those Bates kids are set to walk away from the cult.  I think if Zach told his parents "Hey we decided that Whit's going back to work and she's going on birth control." they wouldn't be happy but they wouldn't shun him either.  They might say, "Just don't say that on the show, we don't care what you do behind closed doors but we have an image to keep up."

[FleeJanaFree]

What is Erin Bate's job?

[elizasc]

She teaches piano lessons (and records CDs, which the family then sells)

She teaches piano lessons (and records CDs, which the family then sells)

[RosyDaisy]

Time for some reality:

* Gil quit a good paying job with benefits to cut trees and grift for Jesus

* The Bates have been shown using Gothard's teachings/character qualities. Former ATIers on FJ have pointed that many times.

* Gil is on the IBLP board of directors.

* Gil knew all about the sexual abuse and harassment claims against Gothard.

* Gil allowed his daughters to travel with Gothard knowing about those claims.

* Gil is and the BoD are being sued for covering up said abuses.

* Erin, Alyssa, and Michael are married to fundie royalty. They were practically arranged marriages in order to move up in the IBLP ranks.

Tell me again how the Bates come across as better parents?

[SassyPants]

Time for some reality:

 

* Gil quit a good paying job with benefits to cut trees and grift for Jesus

* The Bates have been shown using Gothard's teachings/character qualities. Former ATIers on FJ have pointed that many times.

* Gil is on the IBLP board of directors.

* Gil knew all about the sexual abuse and harassment claims against Gothard.

* Gil allowed his daughters to travel with Gothard knowing about those claims.

* Gil is and the BoD are being sued for covering up said abuses.

* Erin, Alyssa, and Michael are married to fundie royalty. They were practically arranged marriages in order to move up in the IBLP ranks.

 

Tell me again how the Bates come across as better parents?

They encourage education, employment in paying jobs and respect that their adult offspring will live independent lives.

BOOM- it makes them a bajillion times better PARENTS than the Duggars.

Yes, the PARENTS' core beliefs are the same- which is a different issue altogether.

[nastyhobbitses]

They encourage education, employment in paying jobs and respect that their adult offspring will live independent lives.

BOOM- it makes them a bajillion times better PARENTS than the Duggars.

Yes, the PARENTS' core beliefs are the same- which is a different issue altogether.

Yes, the Bateses have just as screwed up beliefs as the Duggars, but at least their children aren't utterly stunted and unemployable. Though then again, you could make similar comparisons down the line: hey, the Duggars are horrible screwed up parents and more dysfunctional than the Maxwells, but at least they allow their children to have fun. Hey, the Maxwells are about as weird a fundie family cult as the Rodrigueses, but at least they live in an actual, clean, safe house and make money in ways that don't involve begging on the internet.

[AngelGirl8811]

Hi fellow palies! I didn't think Chad looked pale in that picture at all 

I'm not quite redhead-level pale, but close. And I'm not quite a redhead, but close. I have brown eyes, though, and apparently that means that even though my skin is really light, I'm less susceptible to skin cancer? Or something. Some weird genetic thing that I can't find a source for at the moment.

The worst thing about my pale skin isn't the color -- usually the very lightest makeup shade in at least a few of the higher end brands is light enough -- but how easily my skin "breaks" -- stretch marks take forever to fade.

Ugh! That last part! It's horrible!  

[rosalitta]

Yes, the Bateses have just as screwed up beliefs as the Duggars, but at least their children aren't utterly stunted and unemployable. Though then again, you could make similar comparisons down the line: hey, the Duggars are horrible screwed up parents and more dysfunctional than the Maxwells, but at least they allow their children to have fun. Hey, the Maxwells are about as weird a fundie family cult as the Rodrigueses, but at least they live in an actual, clean, safe house and make money in ways that don't involve begging on the internet.

You make a good point.  The Bates may seem somewhat okay, but when the best thing you can say about someone's parenting is that it's not has bad as these other horrible people, that's not the greatest recommendation.

[withaj]

The Bates make very attractive kids, and their grandkids are absolutely adorable. Much more photogenic family

Yep. They're all good-looking but not carbon copies, mostly because their genes are more varied (brown and blue eyes, brown and blonde hair). How stunning is their Josie already? I personally think Erin's brand of cutesy/hair/makeup is a little over the top for me, but better that than crazy bronzer-loving Duggars.

(It should go without saying that I don't think anyone's worth is determined by their relative attractiveness. Just an observation.)

[SassyPants]

I think both families are equally, physically attractive.

I do not know the Bate's grandsons' names, but they are both adorable.

 

 

[geergirl]

Time for some reality:

 

* Gil quit a good paying job with benefits to cut trees and grift for Jesus

* The Bates have been shown using Gothard's teachings/character qualities. Former ATIers on FJ have pointed that many times.

* Gil is on the IBLP board of directors.

* Gil knew all about the sexual abuse and harassment claims against Gothard.

* Gil allowed his daughters to travel with Gothard knowing about those claims.

* Gil is and the BoD are being sued for covering up said abuses.

* Erin, Alyssa, and Michael are married to fundie royalty. They were practically arranged marriages in order to move up in the IBLP ranks.

 

Tell me again how the Bates come across as better parents?

Better doesn't mean good.  There is a spectrum even for horrible parents.  Gil and Kelly aren't good parents.  Their beliefs are abhorrent.  However, they can still be less terrible than the Duggars.  

I'm sure I'm screwing my kids up in some ways but there are ways in which I think I'm a pretty good parent.  Gil and Kelly can succeed in some ways - allowing some education, latitude in clothing choices, whatever - while still being an overall mess.

[MissBitters]

I don't know if its because the Bates parents are college grads or came to ATI after having a few kids or what, but they seem to actually have an almost more balanced view of their belief system. I really don't hear the kids parroting the "ATI party line" much at all. All the married kids seem to have married for love. and none of them really seem to have the almost rabid baby fever that the Duggar spawn have. Zach and Whitney just celebrated Bradley's first birthday with seemingly no announcement on the horizon, Erin and Alyssa seem to be happy with the one they have...Michael hasn't announced yet, we shall see with her. All three seemed to have competent medical care during their pregnancies, they all delivered in hospitals with OBs. Contrast that to the Duggars. The M kids were not birthed with OBs, Jill and Jessa had disasterous deliveries, one had a C-section, the other one almost bled out.

Seems that maybe the Bates kids are a little bit more firmly grounded in the real world.

I think education and having less money than the Duggars has played a huge part, but I also think the setbacks they've experienced over the past couple of years have contributed as well. Zack's failed courtship and Erin's fertility issues were both reality checks, and unlike the Duggars, the Bates seem to have learned from them. Jim Bob would never admit that maybe they need to re-evaluate their courting rules after Josiah's break up. Jessa didn't seem to learn a thing from Jill's birth. And, of course, there is Josh. If the Duggars haven't been humbled by the events of the past year, it's never going to happen.

[feministxtian]

Maybe that's the key...the Bates family seems more humble...in attitude than the Duggars. They seem to actually LEARN from past events. Zach's first courtship went down the tubes...ok...those rules don't work...let's re-evaluate. BLAM! 4 kids married in a couple of years! Erin has some serious medical issues with pregnancy...ok, we will depend on the doctor's advice when it comes to pregnancy, instead of the rabid baby fever.

The Duggars seem to be utterly incapable of openly admitting that their "system" did not work. Honestly, I don't think JB & M are that bright. If the events of the past year haven't humbled them, then they will continue to be hit by issues until they learn. I still think there's more skeletons in that closet that will eventually come out.

[grandmadugger]

Let's look at the 3 married Duggar couples - Josh & Anna - no jobs, no further education,  Jill and Derick - "Missionaries" but lack backing for a recognized missionary group, Derick is a college graduate and eligible for SBC backing but his wife isn't,  Jessa and Ben - no jobs, Ben has an associates degree

So that's one and half (Ben's AA) degrees amongst 6 adults and no paying jobs.

Let's look at the 4 married Bates couples - Zach and Whitney - Zach has at least one job, police academy graduate (I say at least one because there has been rumblings he was working more than one)  It's also possible that Whit has a CC degree. Erin and Chad - Two jobs, Erin has a Crown degree which is worthless but she did something not sure about Chad, Allysa and John - John works at his dad's HVAC company IF he's a tech he had to go to school, there are federal tests you have to take.  John and Allysa were also doing commercial cleaning prior to Allie Jane's arrival.  Michael and Brandon - Brandon works for HQ, has a Gothard ministry degree.  Michael is rumored to have attended local CC for EMT.  I suspect she didn't sit for boards though.  You would have thought they would have asked for prayers.

So that's 2 tech degrees, 2 Gothard degrees, and a possible AA degree and at least 5 paying jobs amongst 8 adults.

I did ask hubby if John could have apprenticed is way into a tech position and he is doubtful.  What's on the test and what you learn hands on is very different.  He said that's why the "rookies" always have to run calls with the vets because they may have passed the test but that doesn't mean they can do the work and vice versa.