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Duggars by the Dozen - General Discussion Part 15


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EmCatlyn
5 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

I came across this on an anti-Duggar FB group.   Makes you wonder what life would have been like had they just stopped at three...

 

mich3.jpg

Michelle's eyes don't look dead.  Her mouth is not forced into a smile. And Jana isn't wearing a big bow. (Yes, they were available back then.). Interesting.  

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Sorry if someone else already posted this but, LOOK!! Someone's been reading Free Jinger too much.  "Seaweed"  I took a double take. 

My good friends husband is an Australian SAS (special force) soldier... kinda like SEAL Team 6... one of the most uber masculine men you would ever meet... They have 3 kids, 2 girls and a boy. Hubby w

JFC! Why is sibling molestation ok with these people but adultery is where they draw the line? THIS IS WHY PEOPLE HATE YOU DUGGARS.

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Bad Wolf

And Josh is wearing shorts which later was forbidden, which later was OK again. Gotta love the fundie rules.

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EmCatlyn
5 hours ago, St.Clara said:

I am not. Josh committed THE ONE UNFORGIVABLE SIN :smiley-signs136:: He made JB look like a complete idiot in front of the whole world...

I don´t think it would ever have been considered a serious problem in itself in the Duggar world that Josh molested his sisters nor that he cheated on his wife as, obviously, it´s the sole purpose of those lowly females to always meekly suffer and forgive. If you give them the opportunity to suffer and forgive more, this is rather like them doing a service because it will bring them closer to Jebus. So, that would all have been well and good so far.

But, unfortunately, after Joshgate no. 1 Josh had allowed Jim Bob to praise him and tell everybody that they were wrong in blaming his eldest son for his "youthful errors" and in distrusting his morals. Josh, the sinner saved by JB´s fatherly leadership, now a family man with a successful career, was exhibit A that served to show the world that JB was God´s chosen messenger and his teachings were true. If the heathens still refused to acknowledge that, it was in JB´s mind just a matter of time of when God would make them see the light, pay him, JB, due reference and give him his tv show back. But with the Ashley Madison scandal it became blatantly clear that, unfortunately, for this once, the evil heathens had been quite right in their assessment of Josh´s personality, and JB had been (yeah, you may well balk at using the word in this context but we cannot possibly help it:) wrong. :pb_surprised::pb_eek::ETONNER:

It won´t be as obvious to us what a life shattering event this actually is in JB´s world as we at FJ use to be rather blasé re: JB looking like a complete idiot in front of the whole world (and more often than not even caused by his very own actions, the golf course event comes to mind). The point is that while JB does look foolish rather often to the average viewer, most of the time JB will remain blissfully unaware of this fact. Actually, JB has shaped his whole life in a way that is supposed to prevent that anybody around him would ever dare to doubt his magnificence, or if they did, to inform him about it.

Accordingly, after Ashley Madison JB must appear to himself, to his wife and probably to most of his children like a fallen god, like Osiris slaughtered by Set or like Jesus betrayed by Judas. (And if you put it like that, it´s clear who would be the evil Set/Judas in that play... Under these circumstances, you have to admit a slap in the face to be a very mild punishment.)

Very well said.  I would add that whether or not the older children see him as a "fallen god" or as Jesus betrayed by Judas, one thing that is evident from all this is that JB was not all-knowing.  He was not aware of Josh's double-life. He was praising Josh to the skies the weekend before the scandal was revealed.  

The kidults may not yet see him as having been made a fool of;  they may not be able to process that concept yet.  But they have had clear evidence that it is possible to explore a side of life that is forbidden, that one of them didn't get caught by JB the all-powerful.  It may, indirectly lead to other quiet rebellions.  (One would hope not involving prostitutes and the betrayal of innocent people.)

 

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Bad Wolf
5 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Very well said.  I would add that whether or not the older children see him as a "fallen god" or as Jesus betrayed by Judas, one thing that is evident from all this is that JB was not all-knowing.  He was not aware of Josh's double-life. He was praising Josh to the skies the weekend before the scandal was revealed.  

The kidults may not yet see him as having been made a fool of;  they may not be able to process that concept yet.  But they have had clear evidence that it is possible to explore a side of life that is forbidden, that one of them didn't get caught by JB the all-powerful.  It may, indirectly lead to other quiet rebellions.  (One would hope not involving prostitutes and the betrayal of innocent people.)

 

Or terrify them into toeing the line more.

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EmCatlyn
18 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Or terrify them into toeing the line more.

Yes, it is true that Josh's scandal may cause his siblings to become more afraid of breaking the rules and getting caught.  And I think in the short run fear of becoming second Joshes may keep some of the boys in particular "in line."

But I can also see that the illusion that Daddy Knows and Can Control everything may begin to fade.  Small "sins" may stop seeming like Big Sins.  Things like listening to popular music, maybe even dancing or holding hands with someone.. Things that other Fundie groups allow but JB frowns on, may be easier to do.  A kidullt like Joe can tell himself, "So what if I danced?" or  "So what if I had a glass of champagne to toast a friend?" Or "So what if I held hands with X even though we are not engaged?"  These things are not as bad as what Josh did, and some other "Godly" people are okay with them.

Just as JB made a mistake about Josh, he could be seen as making a mistake in the strict ness of some of his rules.  And just as Josh broke rules and stayed under the family radar, a younger sibling might think s/he can stay under the radar for a lesser offense.

it is just one possibility, anyway.

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EmCatlyn

This is really going back into the past, but for those who enjoyed snarking on Josie's fake pigtails back when she was an infant, I accidentally ran into the maker's site on Etsy.  (They claim to be sold out, so I am not "advertising" the product.). It also mentions that Jordyn wore them before Josie.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/72427379/the-original-baby-ponytail-faux-pigtail

Quote

You may want to call them hair extension pigtails or ponytails. The reaction is pretty incredible to thier first piggies. Most people believe it's their real hair! Watch "18/19 Kids & Counting" to see Jordyn Duggar wearing our Ponytail/ Pigtails Headband. Also seen in Oct 2009 People Magazine on Jordyn Grace Duggar. 

They also give a link to where you can see Josie wearing them.  I must say, they look cute in a costume-y sort of way.

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IreneIssh
7 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

I came across this on an anti-Duggar FB group.   Makes you wonder what life would have been like had they just stopped at three...

 

mich3.jpg

Wow. That's weird. It makes me wonder about the different kinds of childhood memories those older kids have. Would this have been before they got involved with ATI & Bill Gothard? 

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nastyhobbitses
3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Michelle's eyes don't look dead.  Her mouth is not forced into a smile. And Jana isn't wearing a big bow. (Yes, they were available back then.). Interesting.  

Michelle looks so much happier then. I really do wonder how things would have been different if they'd stopped after Jana and JD and didn't get wrapped up in ATI...

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TheSilverTongue
1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Michelle looks so much happier then. I really do wonder how things would have been different if they'd stopped after Jana and JD and didn't get wrapped up in ATI...

I knew they stopped using birth control after the miscarriage, but when did they start with the ATI

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foreign fundie
12 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

I came across this on an anti-Duggar FB group.   Makes you wonder what life would have been like had they just stopped at three...

 

mich3.jpg

It is such a natural picture. It makes you realise that once upon a time Michelle was a fairly normal young mum, maybe a little too young and clueless (the kids need something on their soft little feet on that surface!) and the hair was even worse before Gothard, but still, she was a person I could have been friends with and we could have laughed about our children together. What is probably prophetic is that Jana and JD avoid the camera.

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MakeItSo

I sometimes wonder what it might have been like had they even just stopped after 5 or 6. They would still have been considered a big family and it would have been more manageable for them physically and the older kids would have still been helping out but not legitimately raising several kids on their own. Those Duggar girls like Jill and Jessa have been perma-moms since they were what? 7? I am sure parenthood can be one of the greatest things in the world but it shouldn't be all they know. It's not fair to them nor their little siblings who then miss out on spending time with their parents....

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TheSilverTongue
10 minutes ago, MakeItSo said:

I sometimes wonder what it might have been like had they even just stopped after 5 or 6. They would still have been considered a big family and it would have been more manageable for them physically and the older kids would have still been helping out but not legitimately raising several kids on their own. Those Duggar girls like Jill and Jessa have been perma-moms since they were what? 7? I am sure parenthood can be one of the greatest things in the world but it shouldn't be all they know. It's not fair to them nor their little siblings who then miss out on spending time with their parents....

I bet the kids would have turned out better too. They'd probably be happier and well adjusted  without so many Josh problems. They'd be able to afford a much better life (although they would have the TV money). 

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Jennifer Hart

Even being exposed to things as adults, they aren't questioning their restricted upbringing.  Not one has gone off to lead a normal life.  Those kids are truly brainwashed

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EmCatlyn
2 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

It is such a natural picture. It makes you realise that once upon a time Michelle was a fairly normal young mum, maybe a little too young and clueless (the kids need something on their soft little feet on that surface!) and the hair was even worse before Gothard, but still, she was a person I could have been friends with and we could have laughed about our children together. What is probably prophetic is that Jana and JD avoid the camera.

Bare feet for country kids in the South is not unusual.  The hair, as we know, is just Michelle.  

I don't know when they got fully into Gothard/ATI, but from what I have read it is a gradual process for people.  And didn't they send Josh to kindergarten before they decided to homeschool?

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Wow - I didn't even recognized her in that photo - looked at it and thought it was someone "playing" Michelle. It's not even that she looks younger, she looks like Michelle is in there, not a Stepford wife.

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biblelandjunkie
3 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

It is such a natural picture. It makes you realise that once upon a time Michelle was a fairly normal young mum, maybe a little too young and clueless (the kids need something on their soft little feet on that surface!) and the hair was even worse before Gothard, but still, she was a person I could have been friends with and we could have laughed about our children together. What is probably prophetic is that Jana and JD avoid the camera.

does anyone know where this picture was taken perhaps? does not look safe for kids.

 

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Cerealgirl
18 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said: Or terrify them into toeing the line more.

Yes, it is true that Josh's scandal may cause his siblings to become more afraid of breaking the rules and getting caught.  And I think in the short run fear of becoming second Joshes may keep some of the boys in particular "in line."

But I can also see that the illusion that Daddy Knows and Can Control everything may begin to fade.  Small "sins" may stop seeming like Big Sins.  Things like listening to popular music, maybe even dancing or holding hands with someone.. Things that other Fundie groups allow but JB frowns on, may be easier to do.  A kidullt like Joe can tell himself, "So what if I danced?" or  "So what if I had a glass of champagne to toast a friend?" Or "So what if I held hands with X even though we are not engaged?"  These things are not as bad as what Josh did, and some other "Godly" people are okay with them.

Just as JB made a mistake about Josh, he could be seen as making a mistake in the strict ness of some of his rules.  And just as Josh broke rules and stayed under the family radar, a younger sibling might think s/he can stay under the radar for a lesser offense.

it is just one possibility, anyway.

We know they're fake. I doubt they will work so hard to keep enforcing the no hand holding thing or chaperoning all the way through the 6 sons in a row. Boys ' purity isn't as important as girls ' anyway (no purity balls or rings for sons). They made a big deal with Josh because he had the first relationship which made for interesting tv, and 5 sisters in line to set an example for. Like with any big family, the parents get less restrictive by the time they get to their youngest. I could see Josie mowing the lawn and taking to boys with a lot less supervision than Jill and Jessa had.

They also let JD move out before marriage which they'd never allow a daughter to do. I'm sure he drinks beer when he goes huntin and fishin. But it's not a big deal because he's under the radar. They only care about appearances. Once the cameras go away and they speaking engagements dry up, things will loosen up. JB better start focusing on how he's going to house all of these unemployed, rapidly expanding families. You can only control so much with so many people before someone screws up royally. Oh wait...

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Natalie22
27 minutes ago, biblelandjunkie said:

does anyone know where this picture was taken perhaps? does not look safe for kids.

 

I think at the very beginning of their marriage, they lived at their car lot.  Could that account for all the stuff in the back?

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Toothfairy
17 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

I came across this on an anti-Duggar FB group.   Makes you wonder what life would have been like had they just stopped at three...

 

mich3.jpg

When they were normal.  Unfortunately gothard came along

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MakeItSo
4 hours ago, Jennifer Hart said:

Even being exposed to things as adults, they aren't questioning their restricted upbringing.  Not one has gone off to lead a normal life.  Those kids are truly brainwashed

give it some time. By the time some of the younger forgotten ones will be of age it may all be very different. Just statistically speaking, with that many kids at least one of them is bound to go completely against their parents (in a totally crazy way...like one of the girls could wear skinny jeans and leave the house looking her defrauding self like that). 

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ksgranola1

My money is on one of the boys. One below Josiah. Boys tend to rebel more than girls, I can see james or Justin-leaving to explore the world & making a success of it. And Jim Bob will be too old and tired to resist him.

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Did anyone else watch the new video clip of JD and Joseph talking about Josh? It was really touching. It made me think they might address the controversies rather than totally gloss over them. 

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51 minutes ago, JMO said:

IDid anyone else watch the new video clip of JD and Joseph talking about Josh? It was really touching. It made me think they might address the controversies rather than totally gloss over them. 

I looked at one with Joseph, Jana and Jinger talking about their reaction to Josh's adultery before I found the one with JD and Joseph.  Lots of tears and expressions of shock. JD seemed the most recollected of the group.  Looks like the adult kids are stepping up to address the scandal.  They probably won't go into a lot of depth beyond acknowledging their pain and disappointment, which is sufficient.  These are real people.

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