Bergey Family - 8 kids and living in an RV

[BackseatMom]

I cannot seem to find a good explanation of why they put Ling in an RTF.  Can someone point it out to me?

I spend a lot of my professional life keeping kids out of those kinds of intensive facilities unless there are no other options - they often hurt as much or more than they help. I can't figure out why they didn't access community based services instead, unless it just cramped their vagabond life style too much. If so, shame on them for abandoning such a vulnerable child.

[iweartanktops]

I cannot seem to find a good explanation of why they put Ling in an RTF.  Can someone point it out to me?

I spend a lot of my professional life keeping kids out of those kinds of intensive facilities unless there are no other options - they often hurt as much or more than they help. I can't figure out why they didn't access community based services instead, unless it just cramped their vagabond life style too much. If so, shame on them for abandoning such a vulnerable child.

It's in the first link I posted... Actually that's a list of posts on her. 

[Palimpsest]

I've only read about half the posts on poor Johanna and I am too sick to my stomach to keep going.

 

I adopted one at 14. I would bet good money she had PTSD and very unlikely she has RAD. Even if she does, you cannot expect a 14 year old to attach in the same manner a younger child attaches.

 

But my biggest question is exactly HOW do they believe they continue to be that child's family if they leave her in RTC and take off for SA? They have in fact abandoned her, in all the ways she feared they would. And they did the worst thing I've seen some families do, they saddled her with that low IQ diagnosis on their way out the door. They cannot possibly know she has low IQ. She has not settled into English well enough to get an accurate IQ test at ALL.

I think they took her out of RTC and she is with them in RV now.  A wonderfully stable environment. Not.  She's miraculously "cured" of "negative behavior" by God and because she now understands they won't abandon her.  Or something.

Disclaimer: I didn't read all the posts on the oldest child and I got a couple out of order.  That blog is weirdly organized.

I also couldn't find any concrete details about their missionary venture to SA but I didn't look very hard.

[Kate11]

We just go Jill out of the RV and now there's a new family in one! I'm headed down the rabbit hole, wish me luck!

[Crocoduck]

Oh no! I don't have time for ANOTHER bunch of RVing grifters. I'm never going to climb out of the rabbit hole.

 

[chaotic life]

So it appears that without utilizing any therapy or resources beforehand, they put her into two RTCs at 17 for behaviors which, best I can determine revolved around disobedience and not bring joyful and happy.

Quite the Nancy Thomas technique to set up an abuse and rescue scenario so your child bonds by Stockholm Syndrome.

Here's another idea. Teens are OFTEN disobedient and surly. I HIGHLY recommend netting out standard teen privileges quickly simply because they are teens. Why? Because you have NO relationship and NO motivation established for a teen to cooperate with you and your house rules. Forget about the attitude because you cannot force happiness, you can only model it. BUT....you can buy cooperation for house rules by starting with privilege instead of forcing them to earn it. A lack of cooperation with house rules lands those privileges suspended temporarily. I kept my house rules simple and only had to ground the cell phone about three times before I had a teen more than willing to follow house rules to keep all the teen privileges he was handed when he walked through the door.

We're still working on happiness, not because I expect or demand it but because I truly want him to be happy in his life. But I don't care whether he bonds and is happy with ME. I only care that he has a chance at a future.

Funny enough, mutual respect, giving him a chance to be imperfect, oh and that pesky thing they admit they didn't utilize called regular therapy. I have a kid who is devoted and protective of me and his siblings. Still doesn't trust his dad cause he doesn't trust men in general. But they have glimpses of where I think they are headed in a healthy direction.

You just cannot parent a teen the same as a younger child. Even a teen coming from an orphanage with orphanage delays cannot be treated like a younger child even though the temptation is there to do so.

[iweartanktops]

This post really irritated me:

http://www.bergeybunch.blogspot.com/2013/01/day-9-outlasting-technique.html?m=1

 

Outlasting is the process of waiting for the child to yield. 

It is a highly effective way to teach even small children that manipulative crying, screaming, or defiance are not profittable.

 

She starts this shit at 9 months?! I don't have my own kids, but I'm a nanny and I take care of a 12 month old and a 15 month old. They can be really dramatic sometimes, but I'm not going to put them in their cribs until they "yield" to me! 

[nelliebelle1197]

I aagree. the adoption advices make a lot of sense.

This is the creepiest post I've found at the moment http://perspectivesinparenting.com/?p=194&  

I ddon't understand fundie's obsession with making little children yield.  At least they don't seem to advocate spanking.

 

They  probably can't advocate it publicly if they intend to add to their Child Collection. Adoption agencies might frown on beating with a plumbing line.

[Kate11]

What is with the Fundie obsession with the word Obey? Seriously, I don't get it. I remember (a few years ago) watching a video of Michelle talking about play an obedience game with the "Little Ones." She would tell them to do something, and they would have to do it as fast as they could. That was one of my very first WTF moments. I just don't understand. I was raised to listen to directions and follow them, but even if I didn't understand why I could ask. Why do I have to clean my room? Because your friend are coming over and you won't be able to find any of your toys in a messy room. This blind obedience thing that fundies teach their children is truly terrifying. 

On a side night, the phrase "little ones" really gets on my nerves. I mean, can you be any more demeaning? Why not just call them the younger siblings.  

[laPapessaGiovanna]

They  probably can't advocate it publicly if they intend to add to their Child Collection. Adoption agencies  might frown on beating with a plumbing line.

I have this sensation that the whole blog is full of whitewashed stuff. I can't exactly point the finger on what irks me. It's more a lot of strange details in a frame of seemingly "perfect" parenting (especially compared to our usual fundies). Ie she says that little children have their own needs (I'm paraphrasing) that have to be respected and then she blanket trains them. She says that adopted little children need a long time to process the loss of all they had known in life and then she admits she blanket train them after 2 months from their arrival. Also she says that adopted children don't owe anything to their parents but hey now they have everything they need: momma! Another bothering part is when she sums up what Ling learned to do in the first year home and the list is on the lines of: taking care of siblings, feeding them, consoling them, washing them, taking them to the loo, scolding and disciplining them, she even notices that the girl does everything her mother does (J'slaves anyone?). Plus she has RAD, self harms, low IQ, not happy enough... She adopted a Chinese teenager with big problems and 6 weeks later she adopts a Chinese toddler and then proceed to keep the toddler separated from the older siblings because bonding with momma first! She spends all the time with the toddler to bond and the teenager? No need for time with momma for her? Apparently it's all sparkly but it reeks of fake and forcibly perfect representation. I'd like to be wrong, I also think that South African orphans don't need this.

[iweartanktops]

@laPapessaGiovanna I noticed a lot of these things too! I was not expecting to read that Ling knows how to do all of those things for her younger siblings. It sounds like she's definitely a sister-mom! That's so sad. 

This woman contradicts herself quite a bit. Also, all of the control is troubling! She's teaching the kids to control their feelings and teaching them this mindless obedience, etc. This home sounds like a scary place, if you read between the lines. 

I find the placement of the smiley faces to be creepy. I get a bad feeling every time I see ":)." 

 

[Toothfairy]

I'm surprised at her adoption advice.  But seriously why do these evangelical Christians adopt when all they're going to do is cause damage? 

I have this sensation that the whole blog is full of whitewashed stuff. I can't exactly point the finger on what irks me. It's more a lot of strange details in a frame of seemingly "perfect" parenting (especially compared to our usual fundies). Ie she says that little children have their own needs (I'm paraphrasing) that have to be respected and then she blanket trains them. She says that adopted little children need a long time to process the loss of all they had known in life and then she admits she blanket train them after 2 months from their arrival. Also she says that adopted children don't owe anything to their parents but hey now they have everything they need: momma! Another bothering part is when she sums up what Ling learned to do in the first year home and the list is on the lines of: taking care of siblings, feeding them, consoling them, washing them, taking them to the loo, scolding and disciplining them, she even notices that the girl does everything her mother does (J'slaves anyone?). Plus she has RAD, self harms, low IQ, not happy enough... She adopted a Chinese teenager with big problems and 6 weeks later she adopts a Chinese toddler and then proceed to keep the toddler separated from the older siblings because bonding with momma first! She spends all the time with the toddler to bond and the teenager? No need for time with momma for her? Apparently it's all sparkly but it reeks of fake and forcibly perfect representation. I'd like to be wrong, I also think that South African orphans don't need this.

How do these fools adopt? Seriously. That poor girl needs serious professional help and help from her parents. 

[Coy Koi]

Jesus. Fucking. Christ. At first I didn't think these people sounded too bad, because they really seemed to get how much of a heartbreaking loss it would be for a child to lose almost every single thing they know when they're adopted into a family in a completely different culture. She actually seemed quite knowledgeable and empathetic. That's what kept me reading, actually, looking for where she addressed the fact that she had adopted a teenage child and completely changed her name. I thought there must be SOME explanation.

Well, there absolutely wasn't. She mentioned possibly giving the teenager two or three names from which to choose. Not one single fucking word about the teenager's feelings about keeping the name she had lived with for her entire life. Whether the poor girl was even given those two or three names to choose from is also an unknown, because it wasn't mentioned again,  just the "joyful" announcement that the TEENAGER had officially been "named". Not "renamed", but just "named", like she had never even fucking existed previously.

This has been bothering me all day. I'm extremely iffy about renaming a toddler who has any inkling of their name, and also quite iffy about renaming an infant who doesn't know their name at all. Just unilaterally deciding to take away the ONE THING a teenager who has spend her entire institutionalized life knowing as her identity? I strongly believe that should count as a huge red flag against such people's fitness to adopt.

[Pseudoname]

Hmmm, she has just locked her old blog, the one that discussed the adoption problems etc. Not sure if it coincidence of timing or not.

Why do Fundies always focus on thankfulness for everything too?  It Is a good thing to remember, but reminding kids all the time (especially adopted kids) to be thankful about every single aspect of their life?  

The other thing that bothers me is telling kids to keep praying to God for whatever he/she wants.  The family told the kids they didn't have enough money for Christmas, but of course they were in Florida.  Told child that wanted to go to Legoland to pray for tickets, knowing there was no way they could afford them.  Kid prays for 6 weeks, tells everyone he knows about it.  Suprisingly a miracle happens!  They are gifted tickets from the church they were freeloading from.  So basically they encouraged the kid to beg.  SMH

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Hmmm, she has just locked her old blog, the one that discussed the adoption problems etc. Not sure if it coincidence of timing or not.

 Color me surprised. Not. Lori Alexander's editing syndrome is easy to catch.

 

[Iamhispurity]

Hmmm, she has just locked her old blog, the one that discussed the adoption problems etc. Not sure if it coincidence of timing or not.

Wow, that was fast.

[chaotic life]

I realize that changing a child's name is normal for Chinese adoptions, but it bothers me tremendously. I added a middle name to each of my boys but it was adding, not taking away. They all retained their birth names. The only child who didn't continue to answer to his first name was the one who refused to use it from the moment we picked him up. I used it many a night when he cried in my arms grieving for his lost life but never once when he was alert and awake would he answer to it on his own.

But no, reputable agencies should not allow two unrelated children to be adopted at the same time but China is structured to encourage precisely that dynamic.

I had one come home at 4 who took years and years to bond with me. Instead of seeing siblings as competition, I was HUGELY grateful he bonded instantly with two siblings because I understood that a child who can bond does NOT have RAD but a problem meshing with ME. Having that sibling bond for those years it took him to understand what the purpose of a mom was meant his precious heart was still protected and he wasn't feeling alone even if he didn't want ME.

In fact, large families that do it RIGHT know that is precisely one of the advantages of large families. Some kids will not bond with parental authority figures, especially older kids with lots of trauma or years of institutional life. They still need human connection and siblings provide a perfect, non-threatening alternative.

[mango_fandango]

I realize that changing a child's name is normal for Chinese adoptions, but it bothers me tremendously. I added a middle name to each of my boys but it was adding, not taking away. They all retained their birth names. The only child who didn't continue to answer to his first name was the one who refused to use it from the moment we picked him up. I used it many a night when he cried in my arms grieving for his lost life but never once when he was alert and awake would he answer to it on his own.

 

But no, reputable agencies should not allow two unrelated children to be adopted at the same time but China is structured to encourage precisely that dynamic.

 

I had one come home at 4 who took years and years to bond with me. Instead of seeing siblings as competition, I was HUGELY grateful he bonded instantly with two siblings because I understood that a child who can bond does NOT have RAD but a problem meshing with ME. Having that sibling bond for those years it took him to understand what the purpose of a mom was meant his precious heart was still protected and he wasn't feeling alone even if he didn't want ME.

 

In fact, large families that do it RIGHT know that is precisely one of the advantages of large families. Some kids will not bond with parental authority figures, especially older kids with lots of trauma or years of institutional life. They still need human connection and siblings provide a perfect, non-threatening alternative.

I can understand you being annoyed at name-changing. Sometimes, though, it can be because a Chinese name would be hard to pronounce for Westerners. Ling, though, is piss easy. Chinese people often adopt Western names for this reason- there was a girl in my class at school who called herself Giulia although her Chinese name was something different. During her first couple of years she was constantly trying to get people to pronounce her Chinese name. It's likely because of all the different tones- one simple word can be pronounced four different ways and mean four different things, for example "ma" which, depending on pronounciation, can mean "horse", "mother", "hemp" or "scold".

[Four is Enough]

Two of the Four were adopted at ages 6 and 7. Even then, we retained their names; even then, they decided to change their middle names. Our social worker helped us navigate the whole thing. Knowing that they might not respond to us well at the beginning, we took it slowly with them. The older Two, however? Instant play group. And definitely, parenting a teen is VERY different than parenting an infant. WAAY different.

I totally LOVED the "stop service"  command I could give the kids' cell phoes. Only when they needed it of course..

 

[Palimpsest]

I do not think it is coincidence that she made her old blog private now.  I'm sure she noticed a lot more hits on the old blog yesterday.  IMO, it's a pity she wasn't more concerned about her daughter's privacy earlier when she was blogging about all Johanna's "problems" to make herself look saintly.   As an aside, I noticed a couple of old comments there from Jaynee Lockwood who is well aware of FJ.  It's a small Fundie world.

Even the current blog is an odd mix.  She seems to have rather belatedly cribbed a few concepts from best practices of international adoption to preach about without fully understanding them.  Then, by her own admission, within a couple of months she's trying to break and train up the children as though none of that "loss" stuff matters. They should be over all that stuff now and bonded with her because she smiles at them (bares her teeth, more likely) and loves them like Jesus does.

It is also odd that she doesn't seem to date her posts.  Read the "Throw up" entry at your own risk, and preferably not while eating.  Again by Jesus-Blondie-Selina's  own admission, Johanna is acting like an unpaid nanny to the other children, and is the designated changer of diarrhea soaked diapers.  That story is pretty much as bad as anything JillR has come up with.  I do not see how long-term RV dwelling is a good thing for children.

I hope these people never make it to Africa.

 

 

[blessalessi]

@Palimpsest said  She seems to have rather belatedly cribbed a few concepts from best practices of international adoption to preach about without fully understanding them.

 She seems to have cribbed concepts from child psychology without understanding them, and perverted them for her fake smiley blog.

I watched the youtube video where she makes the 1 year old sit grabbing at the remote controll and taking it off him.

Her reasoning is all about her.  "I'm not shouting.... I'm not frustrated... I don't care if I have to take it off him 100 times". As long as she is not shouting, it is apparently fine for the kid to be sat frustrated on her knee hearing "no no" constantly, because the end result is that he will be outlasted and will obey. 

The video is obviously a false demonstration because the baby is being mostly entertained by watching himself being filmed.  I doubt very much that the training is as upbeat and smiley when she is on her own and he is really fussing to get down.

She reminds me of Steve Maxwell when he devised the plan not to be overwhelmed by anger at the dinner table.  The end result was that he was no longer angry, but with no thought to the kids who were presumably terrified of the silently-imposed consequences if they said the wrong thing.

 

[Iamhispurity]

I realize that changing a child's name is normal for Chinese adoptions, but it bothers me tremendously. I added a middle name to each of my boys but it was adding, not taking away. They all retained their birth names. The only child who didn't continue to answer to his first name was the one who refused to use it from the moment we picked him up. I used it many a night when he cried in my arms grieving for his lost life but never once when he was alert and awake would he answer to it on his own..

This. It bothers me also when people adopt from abroad and don´t even learn a bit of their childs mother tongue. And then complain that the child takes soooo long to learn english

[chaotic life]

Yes. I completely get that parents of Chinese adoptees often rely upon the concept that it's hard to pronounce their names, just as I am aware that Asian immigrants often adopt Americanized names for that reason. At 14, it should have been the child's choice and not hers. While we added a middle name to our kiddos who came at younger ages and explained to them why, we left it entirely up to the one who came at 14 for himself. We explained our family tradition, and he decided what to do about his name on his own. The only issue we had was that he was so torn I finally had to tell him he was on a deadline as the attorney needed to file the petition and needed to know what name he wanted. In the end, he kept his birth name, added his own middle name from the couple who helped us get him safe and took our last name. I am pretty sure the only reason he took our last name was he was tired of standing out as "different" but it was HIS decision, not mine. Given that this girl was being called her new American name within two weeks of homecoming and didn't speak English, that was not time for HER to have made any decisions about her name.

Adoption is done TO children. They have no say, no power, and they understand very little of it. The older they are, the more powerless it can make them feel. A name is huge to a child, and so easy to be respectful of the person they were prior to the adoption especially with teens, and Ling is NOT a hard name. They didn't change it because it was too hard. For all she spouts adoption expects on her blog, she puts almost NONE of what she spouts into practice. But spouting it means she has heard it and read it and that means she absolutely heard the issue of teens and names because it's a huge issue and one the experts beg parents to NOT do to teens.

[blessalessi]

The family ministry website is still up: http://littlefishministries.org/meet-the-family/

Johanna Ling, the adopted daughter, is described as a "servant" and "the laundry girl".

Eliana, their child from birth is described as "gifted" and "a leader".

If I am reading it correctly, Johanna Ling's "need" to go into a residential facility coincided with the scoping visit to South Africa

 So the Bergey's had a great time without her and she will be even more lost when they next visit and she is the only one who is unfamiliar with the place.  If she goes at all.  She is being ominously described as "nearly an adult of 18" now.

I don't want to read on....

 

[Palimpsest]

The family ministry website is still up: http://littlefishministries.org/meet-the-family/

Johanna Ling, the adopted daughter, is described as a "servant" and "the laundry girl".

Eliana, their child from birth is described as "gifted" and "a leader".

I don't want to read on....

 

Ah, thanks.  How did I miss that because it's their mission grifting website? 

Our plan is to move to South Africa, learn the Xhosa language, acquire an appropriate property, and work within the red tape of the government to be able to accept orphaned children into our home.

They should start learning Xhosa yesterday.  At least they plan to work within the law and aren't going to kidnap orphans.  I hope.

So Titus was born when they were already on deputation?   

Johanna is "reliable with little ones" as well as being laundry girl.  I think all the adopted girls are described as helpers or helpful.  What are they - free labor?

The bit about Johanna being almost adult at nearly 18 sounds very ominous given this specific context.  I hope they are not planning to abandon her as soon as she is 18, whether or not they swan off to Africa.

 She seems to have cribbed concepts from child psychology without understanding them, and perverted them for her fake smiley blog.

I watched the youtube video where she makes the 1 year old sit grabbing at the remote controll and taking it off him.

Her reasoning is all about her.  "I'm not shouting.... I'm not frustrated... I don't care if I have to take it off him 100 times". As long as she is not shouting, it is apparently fine for the kid to be sat frustrated on her knee hearing "no no" constantly, because the end result is that he will be outlasted and will obey. 

The video is obviously a false demonstration because the baby is being mostly entertained by watching himself being filmed.  I doubt very much that the training is as upbeat and smiley when she is on her own and he is really fussing to get down.

She reminds me of Steve Maxwell when he devised the plan not to be overwhelmed by anger at the dinner table.  The end result was that he was no longer angry, but with no thought to the kids who were presumably terrified of the silently-imposed consequences if they said the wrong thing.

 

Yes.  The one where she is training the poor child to sit on her lap is just as bad.  I think she needs stuffed toys not children to cuddle. 

I really want that kid to say "FU"  instead of "yes, Ma'am."