New Mormon policies towards same sex couples & children

[SpoonfulOSugar]

The Mormon church is doubling down on its position on gay marriage, declaring that gay couples are apostates AND finding that children of same sex couples cannot be blessed or baptized (blessings are normally done for infants and baptism around age eight).

WaPo story on the subject (See Huntsman's daughter's comments)

[ADoyle90815]

In a way, I'm not surprised, but it shows that while they claim that children under the age of 8 aren't accountable for sins, this punishes those children for something a parent or parents have done. Often, gay Mormons try to marry someone of the opposite sex in order to fit in with their church, but now when those marriages fail, those children from that marriage will be forced to chose between parents if the gay parent gets married to someone of the same sex.

[jerkit]

This sort of parallels Maddie Brown being rejected by the Mormon church because she refused to cut ties with her parents.

 

[doggie]

lucky children is all I can say thats good.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

 I know they mean the relationship type of cohabitation,  buy taken literally they've basically excommunicated  the kids of any Mormon who had a roommate in uni or shared a room on a mission trip. They may have technically excommunicated practically their entire church.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I guess Biblical verses admonishing children to honor parents are deemed moot if the parents are in a same sex relationship?

I'm trying to figure out why this set of guidelines is so distasteful to me.

[December]

Not shocked. But I really don't get the point of penalizing potential converts who may be too young to move out legally, or more importantly to support themselves financially. Seems counter-productive to helping people join your religion... are they trying to put off children of same sex couples from joining entirely, or just trying to ensure they fully reject their families before joining?  

[Letgo]

I would think they would want the children of apostates to be fully immersed in the LDS Church. Wouldn't they have more influence on them that way? I guess avoiding the parents and possibly appearing to approve their choices and way of life must be more important.

I'm still shocked that Madison Brown was rejected by the church because of her family. This was an opportunity to get a polyg child back into the fold. And perhaps be such a great example to the rest of the family that others might follow. If Madison was willing to accept the LDS teachings, why would her family be a hindrance to joining the church? Does anyone know if they have said no to other people on the basis of family ties?

[DarkAnts]

Like others, I am not surprised by this. The Mormon church did not allow men of African descent to be priesthood holders untill 1979. Women are not allowed to physically attend general conference weekend meetings. The church also help fund proposition 8 in California.

[gilora]

Maybe it's a trial balloon?  

[bionicmlle]

Yes, SDA church also has doubled down on a policy re LGBT issues and has stated that church employees (which includes teachers at SDA schools, etc) may be terminated for "participating" in same sex marriage ceremonies.  

 

ETA: "Participating" means "going to a ceremony."  Not just performing or standing up for a couple.  

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Yes, SDA church also has doubled down on a policy re LGBT issues and has stated that church employees (which includes teachers at SDA schools, etc) may be terminated for "participating" in same sex marriage ceremonies.  

 

ETA: "Participating" means "going to a ceremony."  Not just performing or standing up for a couple.  

Just to be certain - SDA is Seventh Day Adventist?

I wonder if that will lead to a lawsuit.

[ADoyle90815]

Like others, I am not surprised by this. The Mormon church did not allow men of African descent to be priesthood holders untill 1979. Women are not allowed to physically attend general conference weekend meetings. The church also help fund proposition 8 in California.

Exactly. Women aren't allowed to attend the priesthood meeting of general conference because priesthood is only for those who have a penis. They also don't allow non-Mormons or Mormons who aren't "worthy" to go inside a temple to see a family member's wedding. That means that converts who marry in the temple don't get to have their family members see them get married.

[Coldwinterskies]

I guess Biblical verses admonishing children to honor parents are deemed moot if the parents are in a same sex relationship?

I'm trying to figure out why this set of guidelines is so distasteful to me.

Any time a religion tries to interfere in a member's relationship with family who question or challenge the religion's beliefs, it sets off a huge "CULT!!!" red alert for me. It's one thing to merely disapprove of gay people, but another level of sickness and hate to tell children they have to reject their gay parents to be  good Mormons.

[bionicmlle]

Just to be certain - SDA is Seventh Day Adventist?

I wonder if that will lead to a lawsuit.

Yes - that's correct. Seventh-day Adventist.

 

For most institutions, you sign a contract agreeing to the "mission" and "behavioral standards" prior to taking the job.  

[Coldwinterskies]

To me, this seems like it is sending a message that the Mormons have decided they would rather be a smaller religion of more extreme adherents than to change with the times and adopt a more moderate view to allow them to be more accepted by society. 

I expect that this will have the effect that a lot of the liberal and feminist Mormons who have been trying to reform the religion will give up and end up leaving the religion over this. Hopefully the LDS church will take a big hit in their tithes over this. 

[Black Aliss]

I wonder if they aren't feeling a bit under siege, and are striking back, as it were, because Salt Lake City  elected* an openly gay woman as mayor this week. Mormons have not been the majority in Salt Lake City for decades, but still, it's ground zero for The Church.

 

*Not all votes are in and the incumbent refuses to concede but something strange would have to happen for her to lose her lead now.

[NerdyHil]

My Facebook and personal life is awash with this issue right now. I was raised LDS, my husband served a mission, we were married in the temple, and tried to be good little sunbeams living in the jello belt. We are both 5th and 6th generation Mormons.  About 7 years ago we started to step away from the church, and we took some big steps to not be a part of this religion just in the last year. With my family especially, the church is a big deal. My dad is a big muckity muck on the local level. Sorry, this is just background info. 

   I thought the Ordain Women movement created a big schism in the Mormon community, but this announcement/policy change was like a nuclear bomb. I've been inundated with Facebook posts, text messages, and emails about this topic for the last 24-ish hours since the info broke. This is a big fucking deal to so many people. I've seen the inevitable defend and toe the party line posts and messages. The worst part of these posts are the claims that this policy was made out of "love" for those children it impacts.  Including several from my father. I've seen those friends who have left the LDS church make statements of not being surprised at this action at all. Some are angry, and for those who this impacts them directly, I think their anger is justified. The posts and notes that make me the saddest are those friends who are LGBTQ and still believe in the LDS church. From them, It's just resignation that the church they were raised in,and still think is true has rejected them yet again. One of my dear friends who is just one of the nicest, most genuinely just great guy just said how this "just rends his soul."  

[umsami]

This just makes me sad.  Seems like its punishing the kids. 

I actually thought the LDS church was softening on gay issues a bit in the past few years.  I guess I was wrong.  This is a new policy.....kind of a slap in the face to all those who had felt just a smidgen more welcome.

 

Had no idea SDA was the same way but that explains a lot about Carson's beliefs.

[OddlyAmused]

This is a big move, but not a particularly surprising one. I have to wonder though, do they think this is going to bring more people to their faith? I would think that excluding the children of anyone who had ever been romantically living with someone of the same sex would leave out a lot of people. And what about the children of people who married, realized they were gay, separated from their spouses, and are now living with new partners? Some of these children are likely being raised Mormon, and suddenly they are no longer accepted. It doesn't make sense for any religious group to exclude what is likely a growing segment of the population.

[Coldwinterskies]

I'm really tired of fundies obsessing about the evil of gays, while treating stuff like rape as being no biggie.  If they were half as zealous about rooting out and punishing pedophiles and rapists as they are about punishing gay people then maybe I could at least respect them for being consistent...

[NerdyHil]

I think the LDS church has been hemorrhaging members, especially younger people for awhile. This announcement won't help to stem that tide. The headship and I have been wondering all day today how much of this policy change is in relation to the Boy Scout's decision from earlier this year.  

[thekate]

Doesn't matter. They'll baptize them all after death anyway. 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

My Facebook and personal life is awash with this issue right now. I was raised LDS, my husband served a mission, we were married in the temple, and tried to be good little sunbeams living in the jello belt. We are both 5th and 6th generation Mormons.  About 7 years ago we started to step away from the church, and we took some big steps to not be a part of this religion just in the last year. With my family especially, the church is a big deal. My dad is a big muckity muck on the local level. Sorry, this is just background info. 

   I thought the Ordain Women movement created a big schism in the Mormon community, but this announcement/policy change was like a nuclear bomb. I've been inundated with Facebook posts, text messages, and emails about this topic for the last 24-ish hours since the info broke. This is a big fucking deal to so many people. I've seen the inevitable defend and toe the party line posts and messages. The worst part of these posts are the claims that this policy was made out of "love" for those children it impacts.  Including several from my father. I've seen those friends who have left the LDS church make statements of not being surprised at this action at all. Some are angry, and for those who this impacts them directly, I think their anger is justified. The posts and notes that make me the saddest are those friends who are LGBTQ and still believe in the LDS church. From them, It's just resignation that the church they were raised in,and still think is true has rejected them yet again. One of my dear friends who is just one of the nicest, most genuinely just great guy just said how this "just rends his soul."  

I'm sorry - that must be really challenging.  It's definitely easier for me to consider as an observer.

I was trying to get a sense of what reaction has been.  Here's a Salt Lake Trib article with reactions:

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/3147484-155/what-mormons-are-saying-about-the

My fav:

Cosette Johnson Blanchard, who has been a women's Relief Society president

"My heart is broken, I am a mother of three children, two who identify as gay. All of my children love and support one another. We have cultivated a strong family bond. This announcement tries to break those strong family bonds. We will not let it. I am not sure what the future holds for my family. One thing I do know is that my core family will stay together, strengthen each other and lift each other up, no matter what! We will not let the church dictate to us what Family is! Any future partners, spouses and grandchildren who come into our circle in whatever way we are blessed, will be equals and loved without condition in our family!"

Other Trib articles:

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/3147285-155/new-mormon-policy-on-gay-families  (1798 comments when I posted)

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/3147643-155/jackie-biskupski-hopes-new-lds-direction

The original article from SLTrib

 

 

[NerdyHil]

So, this is the church's official statement about this policy change. I got this from my dad, who fanboys over the man making the statement like he's his favorite rock star. They met at some meeting conference majiggy, and I have heard the stories for years. deseretnews.com/article/865640934/Elder-Christofferson-explains-updated-LDS-Church-policies-on-same-sex-marriage-and-children.html (do I need to break this link?)

My Facebook today has been full of "Well, get the real facts!" and "I'm sorry for what I said, I was wrong." posts. It's like being upset about this situation is already down the memory hole. I wonder if there is a letter from the first presidency that will be read in church meetings Sunday? I've been colossally sick, and haven't talked to my parents since Wednesday (I'm an only child, and we're really close.), but I know if there was, my dad would have to read it. I'm not looking forward to Thanksgiving.