If Your Wife Hates Sex, Don't Look At Her Face

[polecat]

On 10/30/2015 at 3:13 PM, EmiGirl said:

I'm assuming that the idea that maybe some foreplay and making sex fun for the woman would make her want to come back for more never occurred to these idiots.

Seriously? Women don't experience sexual pleasure. They're basically penis holders. Why on earth would a man bother making it fun for her? She doesn't have fun parts like men do! It's just a hole and some flappy skin stuff. 

 

God, anyone would think sex was supposed to be an egalitarian pleasuring party or something. *rolls eyes dramatically*

 

Spoiler

"In other words, however we try, the sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party. A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts." https://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/what-exactly-is-a-complementarian-pleasuring-party/

 

[salex]

1 hour ago, polecat said:

Seriously? Women don't experience sexual pleasure. They're basically penis holders. Why on earth would a man bother making it fun for her? She doesn't have fun parts like men do! It's just a hole and some flappy skin stuff. 

 

God, anyone would think sex was supposed to be an egalitarian pleasuring party or something. *rolls eyes dramatically*

 

  Hide contents

"In other words, however we try, the sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party. A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts." https://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/what-exactly-is-a-complementarian-pleasuring-party/

 

 I will always be amazed that there are so many men willing to publicly acknowledge that they are horrible in the sack. And don't care that they are horrible in the sack.

[polecat]

Just now, salex said:

 I will always be amazed that there are so many men willing to publicly acknowledge that they are horrible in the sack. And don't care that they are horrible in the sack.

Right?!

I had casual partners who cared more about my pleasure than these fundy men care about their supposedly beloved wives' pleasure. That's disgraceful! 

[Mercer]

I don't understand how someone can enjoy sex that they know their partner is not going to enjoy. There's something fundamentally wrong with that. 

I doubly don't understand how they can do that while claiming to love their wife. Love doesn't work that way.

[doggie]

Seriously? Women don't experience sexual pleasure. They're basically penis holders. Why on earth would a man bother making it fun for her? She doesn't have fun parts like men do! It's just a hole and some flappy skin stuff. 

 

God, anyone would think sex was supposed to be an egalitarian pleasuring party or something. *rolls eyes dramatically*

 

  Hide contents "In other words, however we try, the sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party. A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts." https://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/what-exactly-is-a-complementarian-pleasuring-party/

 

 I will always be amazed that there are so many men willing to publicly acknowledge that they are horrible in the sack. And don't care that they are horrible in the sack.

The biggest advantage of getting a innocent virgin. They are the best way to hide your 5 second quickly

[Toothfairy]

How can any man have sex when his wife doesn't like it?

[Mercer]

This "Biblical Gender Roles" blogger is quite the rabbit hole of crazy.

He's pro-slavery, not even kidding.

[refugee]

3 minutes ago, Mercer said:

This "Biblical Gender Roles" blogger is quite the rabbit hole of crazy.

He's pro-slavery, not even kidding.

So's Doug Wilson, or so it sounds like. And Steve Wilkins, his author partner in crime.

But, wait... that quote about "not an egalitarian pleasure party" also came from Wilson, didn't it? I didn't recognize the website address, so I didn't make the connection at first.

[Howl]

Well, you can be meek and gentle, and then just shoot your husband. 

I just keep thinking about Mary Winkler, the Tennessee preacher's wife who shot her husband in the back with a shotgun after years of abuse (this was around 2007, I think).  She testified that he forced her to watch pornography, wear slutty clothes and do what she considered "unnatural" sex acts, in additional to physical and emotional abuse.    She claimed she snapped after he tried to suffocate their infant daughter, because he wanted a boy.   

Quote

CNN

After spending a total of seven months in custody, the Tennessee woman who fatally shot her preacher husband in the back was released on Tuesday, her lawyer told CNN.

Mary Winkler, a 33-year-old mother of three girls, was freed from a Tennessee mental health facility where she was treated for depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, lawyer Steve Farese said.

Winkler served about five months in county jail as she awaited trial, then spent two months undergoing therapy at the mental health facility following her conviction for voluntary manslaughter.

Obviously, the jury believed her, otherwise she'd have gone away for 60 years.  I think part of this was because she was a very meek, soft spoken and petite woman and he was a very, very big guy.  And The Shoe.   And jury selection.  The defense team found the shoes (and dark brown wig) she was forced to wear  in a closet at the Winkler home.  They introduced this during the trial and left it on a wooden ledge beside  Ms. Winkler as she testified.  The lawyer thinks this changed the entire outcome of the case. 

SHOES! 

Quote

 

Winkler's high heel shocked jury, changed case’s outcome

wmcactionnews5.com/story/16047974/winklers-high-heel-shocked-jury-changed-case

It was the shoe seen round the world. The eight-inch, stiletto heel was the turning point in the case of a Mid-South preacher's wife charged with his murder.

"It was the elephant in the room," said Steve Farese [her lawyer] about the high heel. "What's this? Why is it here and who has been wearing the shoe?"

 He said he found the shoe in the top of a closet in Matthew and Mary Winkler's Selmer bedroom. Farese said the shoe was a bombshell discovery to the defense team.

"We had not gotten the full story from Mary," Farese said.  After finding the shoe, Farese said Mary Winkler finally started opening up, telling her attorneys that her husband made her wear the shoes and a dark wig as a prelude to sex.

Farese and Ballin knew the effect that shoe would have on the jury. They believed it was a clue that gave credence to Mary's story about her abusive marriage.

The shoe was placed in a bag and handed to Mary Winkler while she was on trial.  "What's in the bag, Mary?" Farese asked his client, forcing her to remove the shoe and shocking the courtroom.

"Everyone gasped," Farese said.

Winkler's defense team wanted the shoe to be visible during her entire testimony. And it was. The shoe sat on a ledge next to Mary Winkler the entire time. Prosecutors never asked that it be taken down.

 

 

Quote

 

JURY SELECTION:

/truecrimecases.blogspot.com/2012/08/a-perfect-life-mary-winkler-story.html

The preacher’s wife may have been saved from life in prison even before testimony began.

“This trial shows once again that the most important part of any trial is the jury selection,” Michael Mendelson, a longtime New York criminal defense attorney, told the Crime Library. “The OJ Simpson case proved that, and this case proved it again. If you get the right jury, you win. If you don’t get the right jury, you lose.”

Farese and Ballin seated a jury with 10 women and two men. During three days of jury selection, the attorneys closely questioned potential jurors about spousal abuse. Among their queries:

“Can emotional abuse be as damaging as physical abuse?” “Have you ever talked to someone who didn’t listen?”“Have you ever wondered why someone would stay in an abusive relationship?”

Even in jury selection, they were molding Mary as an empathetic figure overwhelmed by years of abuse.

“This was a southern jury filled with southern women,” Mendelson said. “Even today, some southern women are born into a heritage of deference to their husbands. You might have had 10 women sitting on that jury who have experienced the same sort of thing, and here they are judging one woman who had the balls to do something about her situation. They may have been saying, ‘Aha, it’s get-even time.’”

The conventional wisdom is that women jurors are tougher than men on women defendants, but the defense attorneys obviously saw something in this particular jury that prosecutor Freeland did not.

 

Close friends said that they had seen her with bruises and that she cowered in front of her husband.

I find it amazing that she received mental health treatment for depression and PTSD rather than being sent straight to prison. 

She now has custody of her three girls. 

 

 

 

 

[Buzzard]

13 hours ago, salex said:

 I will always be amazed that there are so many men willing to publicly acknowledge that they are horrible in the sack. And don't care that they are horrible in the sack.

Is it just me or do others assume they are just trying to make themselves feel better for having a micropenis?

[RosyDaisy]

Regarding Mary Winkler...it was common knowledge that Matthew Winkler was an abusive SOB to put it mildly. My cousin went to high school with him, and I met him briefly once. I got a very scary vibe from him.

[samira_catlover]

I don't even want to GET there on the same page!

FWIW, and this may be Too Much Information (*alert posted*)---but every responsible caring person I've ever been associated with was concerned about making bedplay lots of fun and nice and happy---AND TOTALLY NOT upsetting Major Significant Others and messing up long-term relationships. CONSENT, WITH ADULTS, WAS KEY.

Excuse me---this might be wayyyyy obvious (and forgive my blunt speech)---but just how in heck can you get all nice funsies erotic pleasure from a partner who takes you into bed just 'cause expected, and either just lies there or pumps away, without seriously TALKING about important stuff (like Other Bonds), or what is comfortable?  You want lots of funsies without talking?--get a sex doll.

OK, some people have...INTERESTING...kinks or interests.   If your partner cooperates without freaking out (and without coercion)..well, .your kink is maybe NOT my kink, but your kink is OK (but interesting), but if your bunch of consenting adults are all on board with XYZ that involves legal capable adults....have at it!

I cannot honestly IMAGINE how awful it must be to copulate with someone who ignores their Other Significant Others. Heck, if my own Lawful (VERY) Beloved Spouse took me into bed and just used me as a bio-sex toy, I'd so kick him into Texas---same if I was an extra prop in sexual fantasies.

[CyborgKin]

You'd think that would be the most basic principle in this subject!  But I guess there's no room for that in abstinence only education. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

This guy is the worst, in my book he's second only to that paedophile apologist woman. They're evil.

[Runningfromreality]

On 2/24/2016 at 11:21 PM, Mercer said:

This "Biblical Gender Roles" blogger is quite the rabbit hole of crazy.

He's pro-slavery, not even kidding.

I made the mistake of reading the comments on his post, and I got to the part where he started defending slavery  Apparently biblical slavery is a-ok and Americans just "did it wrong." The internet can be a terrifying place just because it makes me realize that there are people in the world who think it's logical to sell a child into slavery. 

[Howl]

11 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Regarding Mary Winkler...it was common knowledge that Matthew Winkler was an abusive SOB to put it mildly. My cousin went to high school with him, and I met him briefly once. I got a very scary vibe from him.

  Hate to say it, but sounds like she made the right decision that night.  Was the trial held in her community? 

[SweetFellowshipper]

On 2/24/2016 at 4:47 PM, polecat said:

Seriously? Women don't experience sexual pleasure. They're basically penis holders. Why on earth would a man bother making it fun for her? She doesn't have fun parts like men do! It's just a hole and some flappy skin stuff. 

 

God, anyone would think sex was supposed to be an egalitarian pleasuring party or something. *rolls eyes dramatically*

 

  Hide contents

"In other words, however we try, the sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party. A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts." https://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/what-exactly-is-a-complementarian-pleasuring-party/

 

Oh my god oh my god OH MY GOD. That quote. THAT QUOTE. (The hidden one from Biblical Personhood).

I need a drink.

[polecat]

11 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Regarding Mary Winkler...it was common knowledge that Matthew Winkler was an abusive SOB to put it mildly. My cousin went to high school with him, and I met him briefly once. I got a very scary vibe from him.

TY for sharing your perspective. That was such a strange and sad case.

[usedbicycle]

My mother who was (still is) a submissive fundie wife to my controlling father once told me very candidly that she had a "revelation" regarding sex. 30 years into marriage, she told me she realized that the husband had a responsibility to help his wife have pleasure. It never occurred to her before, for all she knew, sex was a game of give (woman) and take (man). That day made me extremely, extremely sad.

I thought I was a victim when I got shunned out of my family for leaving the Church and moving in with a boyfriend. But now I realize who the real victim was. At least I never was partner-raped and have been enjoying great sex my whole adult life.

[Anonymousguest]

This guy has an interesting and unexpected view of modesty. But fitting, I guess with his view that his woman is there to please him 100% of the time. Maybe they have some 8in stiletto heels in her closer as well.

[Othello]

This entire thread really pisses me off. Bear with me while I'm completely (perhaps too much so?) frank with you all. As a 24-yo guy who was raised in a sexually repressive environment (definitely not the sector of fundie-dom that glorifies male sexuality while disparaging female, but rather tries to sweep sexuality entirely under the rug and convince you that it's sinful to ever entertain a thought), homeschooled K-12, no college (a primary reason was the danger of being in close proximity to young women of my own age, even at a religious institution), and have only really distanced myself from fundie thinking over the past few years and have only removed myself to a positive, judgement-free environment nearly a year ago, I find this to be unbelievable. Maybe it's the fact that in making a sort of cut-off and having a previously very limited knowledge and zero sexual experience, but I've been able to approach sexuality in a fairly open way, interested in learning. This has resulted in a remarkably high, shall I say, success rate (over 90%—helps that one partner was multi-orgasmic), so much so that I get confused as to why the female orgasm is thought of as being so elusive. I understand that everyone is different, but at least in my (admittedly not extensive) experience, all it really takes is not being entirely selfish, spending time on the other person, figuring out what you can do for someone else rather than simply yourself. Can it really be that hard! Like, don't be a complete asshole, and you'll both be doing great. The fact that I can say this from personal experience of about 15 months of being sexually active is a pretty unflattering reflection on these assholes. The sub/dom thing may be a turn-on, sure, but again, it's only cool if it's a turn-on for both parties. Like, how do they not realize that having a f*cking iota of interest in pleasing your partner makes for WAY better sex than treating them as a conscious sex toy? That was probably severely TMI, but damn. I don't get it at all, other than them compensating for crippling lack of confidence by trying to act out the red pill alpha male bullshit, when actually pleasing a woman does exponentially more for your self respect than using someone else to masturbate yourself like a complete loser. Sorry if that was too much haha, but seriously, these guys are shit and it pisses me off.

[Gimme a Free RV]

I was a member of a non-fundie church a few years ago where the pastor's wife told ladies in a study that we should never refuse our husbands.  To this day, I shake my head.  Wouldn't that just encourage the "my wife is a blow-up doll" mentality?  I tried explaining to my ex that intimacy was never going to be great if he insisted on it when I wasn't up to it.  If I gave in and did it anyway, he'd get upset that he wasn't able to rouse me sufficiently.  Like, it dealt a blow to his ego or something and I was like, "told ya."

For me, I'm so over sex.  I know how fatalistic and dried up that sounds but, after what I've been through with my ex, I truly think I could exist the rest of my life without...with no problem.  My priorities lie elsewhere.

[Anonymousguest]

2 hours ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

I was a member of a non-fundie church a few years ago where the pastor's wife told ladies in a study that we should never refuse our husbands.  To this day, I shake my head.  Wouldn't that just encourage the "my wife is a blow-up doll" mentality?  I tried explaining to my ex that intimacy was never going to be great if he insisted on it when I wasn't up to it.  If I gave in and did it anyway, he'd get upset that he wasn't able to rouse me sufficiently.  Like, it dealt a blow to his ego or something and I was like, "told ya."

For me, I'm so over sex.  I know how fatalistic and dried up that sounds but, after what I've been through with my ex, I truly think I could exist the rest of my life without...with no problem.  My priorities lie elsewhere.

We had a similar meeting where a prominent woman in the church told us she had never had an orgasm and sex was the biggest struggle of their marriage. They had at least a year that they went without sex. Personally I can't imagine that, and I think that in some cases like that, at some point the resisting spouse needs to rally and do something. See a Dr, counselor, something, because that really is not fair for one spouse to just say they aren't interested in sex and the other just has to deal with it. This woman had come to that realization at some point and advised the younger wives to just suck it up and have sex whether they wanted to or not, it wasn't about them(not her words, but her meaning) She also told us about an "incentive" program, whereby her husband was basically paying her to have sex. We(church ladies steering committee) got some calls about that one

Obviously this ccouples sexual problems went beyond someone being tired or busy or sick or just not in the mood. But I can understand how in cases like this the refused spouse in a marriage and religion that didn't allow  any other sexual release, would want to have sex even if they knew their spouse wasn't into it. 

I honestly wish I didn't know this about this couple, they have grown children and have been married a long time, it saddens me so much that she's never experienced the fullness of that relationship with her husband. Someone did ask if she had seen a Dr about it and just said there was nothing wrong with her physically, but knowing their beliefs, I doubt that they really sought the proper help. 

[RosyDaisy]

Mary Winkler's trial was held in her town of Selmer, TN. It was a strange case. A few years ago she was diagnosed with MS.

[Buzzard]

On 2/25/2016 at 4:18 PM, Gimme a Free RV said:

I was a member of a non-fundie church a few years ago where the pastor's wife told ladies in a study that we should never refuse our husbands.  To this day, I shake my head.  Wouldn't that just encourage the "my wife is a blow-up doll" mentality?  I tried explaining to my ex that intimacy was never going to be great if he insisted on it when I wasn't up to it.  If I gave in and did it anyway, he'd get upset that he wasn't able to rouse me sufficiently.  Like, it dealt a blow to his ego or something and I was like, "told ya."

For me, I'm so over sex.  I know how fatalistic and dried up that sounds but, after what I've been through with my ex, I truly think I could exist the rest of my life without...with no problem.  My priorities lie elsewhere.

I get (but dont accept) the fundie idea that women should be "always ready" with a smile. What I dont get is the complete denial of a woman's sex drive.  What happens if she's into it and he isnt? Is she allowed to initiate or is acknowledging your own desires a sin?  

I just cant comprehend being in a constant state of sexual frustrations for your ENTIRE LIFE.  Thats awful.