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Landmark Events- LOLDoug: The Next Generation


ladyamylynn

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2 hours ago, smittykins said:
On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2015 at 2:48 PM, salex said:

I think they just wanted another word starting with "pr" in their sentence... did I miss the verse that says God Loves Alliteration?

Probably. :pb_lol:

"Precious-ly?"

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On June 24, President Obama recognized the Stonewall National Monument as the country’s first monument to honor the history of the LGBTQ community in America. On October 23, the Director of the National Park Service, Jonathan Jarvis, appointed by President Obama in 2009, and responsible for the new values of the Park Service, joined Interior Secretary Sally Jewel on a conference call to discuss the National Park Service release of LGBTQ America: A Theme Study of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer History. . . Jarvis said they have identified 1,300 LGBTQ landmarks for consideration for historic designation.

Trying to figure out what si wrong with this? 

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How do they interpret the 1st Amendment?  The government is not supposed to take a religious stance in regards to history (or anything else), so what is their gripe?  Is this an LGBTQ thing, or are they butthurt because their Heroes of THE Faith are being excluded?

Sorry for the all the questions.  I'm just trying to understand WHAT their beef is.  

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I didn't get far but it looks like they're butthurt because the National Park Service has rules withing national parks and even divinely chosen friends of god can't circumvent them with permission from their god.

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I still have no idea what the fuck LGBT issues have to do with their case. Maybe they're just using the Stonewall monument as proof that the National Park Service is evil.

Oh, also, thanks to the mod who moved this thread out of the archives!

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18 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I still have no idea what the fuck LGBT issues have to do with their case. Maybe they're just using the Stonewall monument as proof that the National Park Service is evil.

Oh, also, thanks to the mod who moved this thread out of the archives!

There is an LGBT community treated with respect?   There is someone teaching alternative history seems to chap their hides. 

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28 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Oh, also, thanks to the mod who moved this thread out of the archives!

You're welcome.  Any time.  If I don't notice, anyone can send me a PM to have something pulled out of archives.

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6 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

Other case decisions I found on illegal guiding had to do with improper or non-existent commercial permits on National Park Service land.

Dollars to donuts the idiots at Landmark Events violated this  policy by failing to get the required commercial use authorization permit.

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Permits: Certain uses of park sites require a permit. Permits are required for short-term activities which provide a benefit to an individual, group, or organization rather than to the public at large; which require written authorization and some degree of management control from the NPS in order to protect park resources and the public interest; and which are not prohibited by law or regulation.

Good they got busted & I hope they get their clocks cleaned in Federal court.

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2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Dollars to donuts the idiots at Landmark Events violated this  policy by failing to get the required commercial use authorization permit.

Good they got busted & I hope they get their clocks cleaned in Federal court.

      Sigh, they will get a slap on the wrist and go on as if nothing happened.

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3 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

Sigh, they will get a slap on the wrist and go on as if nothing happened.

That slap will sting.

They will most likely lose in court and then have to pay not only the original fine but any penalty & interest PLUS court costs for the government's attorney(s). 

 

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16 hours ago, Howl said:

The issue is ebil government and that's all you need to know. Because ebil government, send money,  and lots of it. 

And high on my Christmas gift list?  An opportunity to debrief the men and women who guided the Land  Events Grand Canyon rafting trip.  Typically, Grand Canyon rafting guides are well versed in the complex geology and history of the canyon.  There had to be tons of covert eye rolling as Bill Potter explained the geology of the Grand Canyon through the eyes of a young-earth creationist: 

Oh, in case you didn't know, the Grand Canyon is a remnant of the Biblical flood!  

ETA: Maxwell, any input on what it would have been like to guide a group like this?

The river guides are a pretty diverse group and I imagine the response would vary but probably not be anything noticeable.  In reality, those folks get paid for their rafting expertise, leading hikes and being polite -- it is (or used to be) a tipped profession.   So while the guide may disagree with the presentation (and not all of them would), they would most likely smile and carry on with their work.  On the leg of the river that Landmark charters, the passengers are fresh and excited to be there when they board but the guides have already spent a day prepping/loading in Flagstaff, another day that consists of a long, hot drive to the canyon and unloading/setting up the rafts.  Then 5 days on the river with another group of people (and they've just run Lava Falls -- go look it up and watch a video or 3, it's an intense ride).  That other group plays heavily into the attitude and response of the rafting crew and they are pretty worn by then regardless.  They generally suppress the eye-rolls and vent once the passengers are gone.

At least that's my memory 25+ years out. ;-)

I was only there for a summer, and part time at that, but there were plenty of stories.

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Thanks for sharing that refugee... that was pretty funny and  a fairly accurate portrayal (although her sequence of events is off -- the 20' drop is Lava Falls and doesn't occur until day 5.  You barely get wet on day 1).  She's right about the NPS flying people out via helicopter.  Doesn't happen very often but I was on a trip where a couple was taken out due to a family emergency.  They put the helicopter down on the beach at Redwall Cavern -- which was an amazing feat to see.

2011-10-27-025.jpg

(Not my picture -- just found it on the interwebs)

There's an old saying about the Colorado river -- "To thick to drink, to thin to plow."  It used to always be muddy and was warm enough that a guy floated the length of the canyon before Glenn Canyon Dam went in.  Post dam, the river is generally clear unless there are regional storms that pour the silt in... and it's COLD.  Nothing is quite as shocking as being in the fiery hot canyon, surrounded by tall granite walls reflecting the heat and being drenched with  40-45 degree water.  Wakes you right up!  Oh, how I miss that place.

Sorry for the serious thread drift...

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On 11/21/2016 at 1:42 AM, Maxwell said:

At least that's my memory 25+ years out. ;-)

Maxwell, thanks for sharing your experiences as a river guide!  People think that river guiding is glam, but it's damned hard work and in the heart of summer on the Grand, daily temps are well over 100 degrees.  That picture of Redwall Cavern is gorgeous.  That brought back lots of memories for me as well, and I just realized our Grand Canyon experiences were (relatively) close in time, but for me it was a private trip with 21 people for 19 days.  

Right now I'm reading The Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko, "the epic story of the fastest ride in history through the heart of the Grand Canyon", which took place in 1983.   Kevin Fedarko's writing is sublime and poetic, and he goes through the history of the canyon in a really captivating way (even if you already know that history), before he gets into the meat of the adventure.

1983 was an extreme El Nino year in the southwest and the summer of 1983 was the year Lake Powell came "that close" to overtopping Glen Canyon Dam, and the dam itself was "that close" to failure.  Here's an engineer's take on what was going on: 

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Wolf wrote that if you had been on the bridge spanning the canyon below the dam on June 28, "you would have seen a sight terrifying enough to put the fear of God into anyone, but especially into an engineer.

"You would have seen the steady sweep of the spillway mouths suddenly waver, choke, cough and then vomit forth half-digested gobbets of steel reinforced concrete (bad, very bad), spray out blood-red water (My God, it's into bedrock) and finally disgorge great red chunks of sandstone into the frothy chaos below the dam.

Full text at High Country News here.

We Swam the Grand Canyon: The True Story of a Cheap Vacation that Got a Little Out of Hand  (the trip took place in 1955) is still one of my favorites and you can get it on Amazon here -- apparently it was republished in 2008.  

And now, back to regular programming (sigh). Doug's manly adventures were all cosplay and theatrical manliness, not true adventure, and honestly there's nothing wrong with that if it's what you enjoy.  It's how they represent it to the world that is so false.  "See, we're being MANLY!" "TEH MENZ"

The Landmarks trip that chapped my a** was the visit to a retired battleship, where only the Fathers and Sons could sleep on board, because manly.  It's ironic that they have to leave the wimmenz  unprotected for the night to prove their manliness. 

Guessing that Landmark Events is very successful, looking at the number of trips they are putting on, with a series of historic tours to Scotland listed, because John Knox. Side trips to distilleries allowed?

I hope Landmark Events have their asses handed to them in Federal court.  They will try to make it a free-speech issue, but I think there will be no headway with that.  However, given our current political climate.....

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On 11/20/2016 at 4:12 PM, hoipolloi said:

Dollars to donuts the idiots at Landmark Events violated this  policy by failing to get the required commercial use authorization permit.

Good they got busted & I hope they get their clocks cleaned in Federal court.

Ding, ding!  We have a winner.  They'll lose.  Noisily, but they'll lose.

I'm so annoyed.  I just missed a Landmark Event in my neck of the woods - again.

On their "Thanksgiving with the Pilgrims" breakneck tour they visit the Minuteman National Park where I have been known to walk my dogs on weekends.  If I could time it right we could amble past and get an earful of revisionist history at the North Bridge.  Note to Landmark:  only ignoramuses and tourists call it the "Old" North Bridge.  

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5 hours ago, Howl said:

Maxwell, thanks for sharing your experiences as a river guide!  People think that river guiding is glam, but it's damned hard work and in the heart of summer on the Grand, daily temps are well over 100 degrees. 

Just to clarify, I was NOT a river guide. :-(  I was the "Host" (aka company rep/PR guy) for the 3 days lower trips and had the privilege to fill the swamper roll on a private kayak trip though the full length.  No, not a glam job but extremely satisfying.  People who have never been have no idea of the beauty of the place & pictures, while nice, don't do it justice.  Even the latrine has an awe inspiring view (no joke there).

The 1983 Glenn Canyon Dam story sends chills down my spine every time.  There's a good documentary on youtube... ah heck, I'll just link it here:
 

 

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16 minutes ago, Maxwell said:

Just to clarify, I was NOT a river guide. :-(  I was the "Host" (aka company rep/PR guy) for the 3 days lower trips and had the privilege to fill the swamper roll on a private kayak trip though the full length.  No, not a glam job but extremely satisfying.  People who have never been have no idea of the beauty of the place & pictures, while nice, don't do it justice.  Even the latrine has an awe inspiring view (no joke there).

The 1983 Glenn Canyon Dam story sends chills down my spine every time.  There's a good documentary on youtube... ah heck, I'll just link it here:
 

 

When I was in college in 1983 we read an essay about damming that part of the river.  Interesting read.  Thanks for the pix.

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1 hour ago, Granwych said:

The 1983 Glenn Canyon Dam story sends chills down my spine every time.  There's a good documentary on youtube... ah heck, I'll just link it here:

 Watching Crystal and Lava is anxiety provoking; my heart rate is up just looking at it. 

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I'm reading the comments on the Facebook post. There aren't many details (it sounds like even they don't know the exact reason they were cited), but it does sound like it was just an issue of not using a park guide.

A few people are skeptical that it's a free speech issue and want more information before they grab their pitchforks. To which Landmark Events replies:

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Please understand, while we would like to give more detail, giving information without clarity would be unwise. Also, we have been advised to stick to the facts presently as described in the email. We really appreciate your interest in this issue.

Isn't giving information without clarity exactly what they've been doing? They're asking for money because of this but they won't give details to the people they're trying to get money from!

A sampling of other comments from that post:

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Same bloated government that tells little people selling lemonade for fun as illegal! Hopefully trump will cut it to the bare necessities!

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Another thing for Trump to look into. This is just wrong what they are trying to do. 
Please stand strong.

I'm sure Trump would care deeply about this case. :pb_lol:

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No money to send but I also shall pray. We need the truth taught. Not the PC lies. May God richly bless you.

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Thankful for Landmark and it's courage to stand in the midst of this battle. We stand with you in prayer and believe the Lord will give victory in this.

Such courage!

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Only in America you have to go to court for something stupid like "illegal Guiding" but not for illegally crossing the Border into the country.

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Prayers sent to you. I hope you succeed in this fight. If landmarks are made to include lgbtq people then God believing groups should be included also if not isn't that the very discrimination lgbtq people fought to avoid. Government once again proving to show double standards and avoidance of equal rights. God bless and prayers for your voices being heard and answered with a positive outcome.

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Oh God help!
Is there not even one area of society where those fools aren't trying to shove LBGTQ crap down everyone's throats??!!

Again, what do LGBTQ people have to do with anything???

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Yet folks from both the northern and southern U.S. borders are incouraged to break U.S. laws by entering the country illegally, and some select U.S. cities...aka...city governments choose to ignore the U.S. law and become a sanctuary city. The Feds seem to be picking and choosing which laws they will enforce, depending on whether the lawbreakers is a U.S. citizen and whether a Christian U.S. citizen. So, one might wonder why the Feds will go after a Christian citizenry group, while turning a blind eye to those who have clearly already broken our laws. It has been an inch by inch movement that drastically sped up in very recent years, for political and for personal agendas.

This next guy seems reasonable, and then...

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I directed an NPO on public lands in a National Forest and Rec area. The "illegal guiding" charges normally stem from charging money for your services. So long as our trips were free, no problem. When you begin to charge money for your services offered on public lands.. That becomes a problem. 

As far as the gay / homosexual stuff mentioned here , I am afraid that now we have a former homosexual pornographic model ascending to the role of First Lady , you can officially call that battle lost , for America.

 

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5 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I'm reading the comments on the Facebook post. There aren't many details (it sounds like even they don't know the exact reason they were cited), but it does sound like it was just an issue of not using a park guide.

Oh they know all right -- they're just too dishonest to admit it. Fucking liars.

Bet they're seething over getting people's "prayers" instead of $$$.

 

 

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As far as the gay / homosexual stuff mentioned here , I am afraid that now we have a former homosexual pornographic model ascending to the role of First Lady , you can officially call that battle lost , for America.

Yes, because LGBT.  If there were no photos of Melania with women, he'd probably be fine with it because Melania surely has repented, and along with Trump, is such a yuuuuuuuge Christian, donchaknow.  However, the woman-on-woman stuff is just unforgivable to his mind -- I'm assuming the poster is a guy, but could be a woman. 

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By the way, did you notice that they too had a Father Daughter Retreat? It's Vision Forum all over again, complete with touring Scotland, cosplaying WW2, and staring adoringly at daddy dearest. The only thing we need now is more cellos and The Tool himself in his three piece tweed suit and vintage camera hanging from his shoulder, raving about the manly men of Titanic.

Gosh, how I have missed this :popcorn:

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update. Trial is set for January 17.

It sounds like they really just didn't understand the laws in the first place and are just now realizing that, but of course they're still not going to admit they did anything wrong.

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