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19 cats and counting

You are right. I didn't mean to make it a narrow issue. I too have had issues with my mother.  Even when I was a size 3 or 5 in high school, she'd remind me that I needed to watch my food intake because "You're tiny now but you're built just like (insert relative's name here) and look at her now."  I guess that's how I feel like I know what Erika's daughter (and the others) are probably feeling when their parents can't see them as beautiful no matter their weight. I'm sorry for the struggles you had and continue to have.  Believe me, I get it.  I'm 48 and would still love to have a complimentary word from my mother, especially considering I have recently lost 27 pounds. The only good thing to come of my struggle is that I've had such compassion and clarity with my own daughter when it comes to weight issues...at least I've strived for that. 

I guess what bothers me so much with "these" families is because they claim to be so compassionate and to cherish each child. They claim to teach modesty and timidity when all along they are just shaming their daughters into looking like the very worldly image of perfection they claim to reject. 

 

I'm a size 3-5 now and it's the only time I was ever able to wear those sizes (unless you count little kid sizes).  

My legs are no longer in tree stump territory, but still I don't wear shorts outside of the gym or to bed because I'm very self conscious about them and still hear my mom's voice in my head.  

I don't have any kids, but it's not my business to comment on anyone else's body.  If someone came to me for suggestions I'd help them, make them a green smoothie (I hate to agree with Erika on something, but those things are why I am a size 3-5 now), go for a walk, etc.   But I'm not going to tell someone that they should not be wearing shorts, tank tops, skinny jeans, etc because of their body.  

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imokit
 

My mom never put me on a diet, nor did she praise weight loss, but I absolutely succumbed to "worldly" pressure to adhere to a certain ideal.  In a sick way, it seems like a rite of passage for American teenagers.  But if fundies are trying to avoid worldly issues, they are failing in this regard.  It raises a quality question: what benefits does avoiding the world truly provide, if the worst aspects (body issues; sexual abuse -- within families, no less; child abuse; malnutrition in growing children; a refusal to work that borders on idleness -- less a Shupe issue, but prominent in many other fundie families) still infiltrate the godly Christian family?

I shall assume that it's a magic form of Jesus-logic, since traditional logic completely fails here.

I was also browsing her old blog and comments (procrastinating in a BIG way here, but this is more fun :) ) and found these moments:

 

 No comments from Blessed Wife are to be seen.  According to Bob, 

 

There are lots of other worthwhile, notable weird problems which crop up in the comments about Erika's short hair.  What stands out to me is her inability to tolerate dissent or disagreement, and how Bob enforces that kind of weird non-interaction with inquiring minds.  These quotes are from the short hair discussion: http://www.largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2011/11/short-hair-and-femininity-what-does.html

Long hair isn't mandatory, but all of her daughters have long hair below the shoulders.  I've never seen any of them play with a pixie or a bob.  You'd think that if it wasn't mandatory they wouldn't all have the same hair cut or they'd have short hair like their mother's.

[cough hypocrisy cough]

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defraudingjezebel
 

My mom never put me on a diet, nor did she praise weight loss, but I absolutely succumbed to "worldly" pressure to adhere to a certain ideal.  In a sick way, it seems like a rite of passage for American teenagers.  But if fundies are trying to avoid worldly issues, they are failing in this regard.  It raises a quality question: what benefits does avoiding the world truly provide, if the worst aspects (body issues; sexual abuse -- within families, no less; child abuse; malnutrition in growing children; a refusal to work that borders on idleness -- less a Shupe issue, but prominent in many other fundie families) still infiltrate the godly Christian family?

I shall assume that it's a magic form of Jesus-logic, since traditional logic completely fails here.

I was also browsing her old blog and comments (procrastinating in a BIG way here, but this is more fun :) ) and found these moments:

 

 No comments from Blessed Wife are to be seen.  According to Bob, 

 

There are lots of other worthwhile, notable weird problems which crop up in the comments about Erika's short hair.  What stands out to me is her inability to tolerate dissent or disagreement, and how Bob enforces that kind of weird non-interaction with inquiring minds.  These quotes are from the short hair discussion: http://www.largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2011/11/short-hair-and-femininity-what-does.html

(bold mine)

I have the same question- I suppose they'd answer something about having eternal salvation in Jesus being reason enough to work towards such standards. They also tend to blame someone's sins on the individual rather than acknowledging that their environment/upbringing may have played a part.

 Nevertheless, that goes against their whole fixation on being counterculture. I do think that their separation from "worldliness" is just another holier-than-thou ploy. Many religious people (of various religions) can have non-mainstream ways of dressing, eating, etc. but they never ever seen to come off as judgmental as fundies do...

I loooove the "short hair" post of Erika's, only because it is a prime example of how Erika's opinions conveniently align with what she interprets in the Bible. Also, there is so much delicious drama in the comments. 

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apandaaries

 

I loooove the "short hair" post of Erika's, only because it is a prime example of how Erika's opinions conveniently align with what she interprets in the Bible. Also, there is so much delicious drama in the comments. 

I'm reading the comments with a cynical love. I read many of her posts awhile ago, but kept missing the comment sections.  They are gold mines!  Except that so many of the best posts have been deleted, so I just get to read about other commenters alluding to "negative" posts.  The short hair post is really one of the best, though, as it encapsulates her philosophy: I'm God is always right!  Trouble interpreting God's will?  Just read these posts -- Erika has already sorted the true from the false.  God's word so conveniently aligns with her worldview. F'ing fascinating.  How blessed she must be.  :pray::special-snowflake1::2wankers:

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princessmahina

So, until very recently (like, until I joined Free Jinger), I thought it was normal and average for a mother to constantly be watching her daughter's weight, making comments about it, and encouraging diets/weight loss/more exercise. The things you learn on the interwebs...

 

She also serves the kids rolls with their smoothies in the morning (no butter on them though, apparently). I wonder how many rolls each kid gets, and how many extra calories that gives them?

Edited by princessmahina

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iweartanktops

I'm pretty sure the rolls are less than 100 calories. Their breakfast isn't even 200 calories! That's not healthy! 

Also, my heart is breaking for those of you who were pestered about your weight, growing up! I'm really sorry you had to endure that. I'm pretty open about having anorexia (I'm in recovery now), and I actually had none of that when I was growing up. My parents are athletes and a medical provider, so we always ate healthy and were an extremely active family. But, my parents never said anything about my weight until I got sick. They did a lot of things wrong, but I'm so thankful I didn't have to deal with that! Hugs to all of you. :my_heart:

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apandaaries

So, until very recently (like, until I joined Free Jinger), I thought it was normal and average for a mother to constantly be watching her daughter's weight, making comments about it, and encouraging diets/weight loss/more exercise. The things you learn on the interwebs...

This makes me extra-special-glad for FJ. There are so many ways to learn here, and the depths are nearly unfathomable.  Thank dog for that.  

Here's to mothers appreciating their daughters for their health, however that may look, not their superficial adherence to societal expectations.  :whitewine:

Edited by amandaaries
this post required a toast.

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grandmadugger

Breakfast for an adult woman should be between 350 and 400 calories based on a 1400 calorie diet.  

A 4-6 year old child needs between 1500 and 1750 calories a day.  It's also suggested you let the child serve themselves so that they get to pick their portion size. 7-9 year old children need between 1700 and 1950 calories a day.  Teens should be around 2000 calories a day.  There is no way on earth those kids are hitting the suggested number of calories in a day.  When your breakfast is under half the recommended calories it's hard to make that up in the day.  

I'm sorry for all of you that had to endure body shamming from your families.  The closest it ever got here was "Be thankful you got your grandma g's boobs since you got grandma p's hips." Or from grandma g "Too bad you got your grandma p's legs, mine still look damn good at 90 and never had to shave them"   

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elliha

I don't think weight was a big issue in my family but I hated the way my mom used to point out when I was 10-11 that women in our family often tend to gain a lot of weight when the hit puberty "and you probably will too". It felt like a curse more than prediction and I did gain weight, like most women in family, because what my mom said is indeed true. I was chubby my whole teen years but started exercising and being very careful with my weight during my university years and was relatively thin (I have a broad almost square frame so while I was not fat at all I didn't look very skinny) in my early and mid twenties. Then I started working and my mother died and I got back to chubby again. After my daughter was born I lost all my pregnancy weight and then some but then both me and my husband became depressed (so many reasons, some I don't want to discuss and some related to some work issues and a death in the family) and then I packed on a lot of weight and now I would say I am fat. I don't diet and don't want to at this point but I eat normal food and I am not gaining anything now and that is fine. One day, I want to be, not skinny, but a weight I feel more comfortable in than what I weigh now but I am not in a hurry and it will not be achieved through starvation.

I would never ever tell a teen to diet even if they were in fact fat. I would serve good healthy food and try as best as I can to limit the worst foods and if the teen asked to be able to exercise or do something active along the lines of that support and do my best to help them get a routine going with better habits but never use the word diet or lose weight. They are sensitive enough as it is. I hate when my sister in law says, even as a joke to her teens "move that fat ass" or things like that. Her girls are normal and skinny and she feels they should know that she is joking but I am not sure they always do. She does weight watchers and even if my brother and the girls are not included I do feel that her talk about her own weight is not healthy and I worry for the girls a bit even though they do not seem to be too bothered right now. I pray they are the more sturdy type of teen that can handle it and that other people in the family can give more healthy input. I try to do so if possible and so does my sister who has even told the mother off about saying things about being fat to the girls. She was not very happy for the comment by my sister but I think she has gotten a little better afterwards but not stopped completely.

I agree that there is no reason for Erika's older girls to lose weight. They seem normal to me. Erika seems to have been the naturally skinny type as a young woman judging from how she is built so perhaps she doesn't really understand that normal built is bigger than she was at the same age. The girls look to be a healthy weight but seem to have more of Bob's frame than Erika's while I think the oldest boy seems more the skinny type. I don't think he is malnourished or underweight, I think he has just not hit that phase of puberty that make boys look more like men and some boys don't until they are 15-16. If he still loooks like that in 2 years I would be worried but not now. 

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Tired
Iamhispurity

I remember being a size 2 (my "heaviest") and my mom telling me that my hips got too fat and my thighs were too big. Now I am a 0/00 and sometimes I still look at my thighs and think: are they fat? This is unhealthy! And she is setting her daughter up for exactly these thoughts and a whole lotta doubt!
Erika: you´re ruining your daughters self image! She does not need to lose weight!

I am so angry, I can barely write anything. If I could, I would take Karen in.

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jerkit

For all their talk about being thin "to get a man" I wonder if it's something fundie men even think about. Like I wonder if they can even tell a difference between the healthy girl and the "very thin because her mom weight shamed her" girl. 

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usmcmom

Erika's double standard on the long hair issue versus the skirts only issue is maddening. 

Nowhere in the Bible does it say women should wear skirts so that men will not look at their crotch. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that modest apparel equals dresses only.  That would be quite ridiculous to assume since, at the time the Bible was written, men and women basically wore the same thing - tunic type coverings. The women's was likely longer and included a head covering; although men often carried a "cloak" over their shoulder and tucked into a belt. This was often used as a blanket or shawl-like garment for warmth as they traveled.   

1 Timothy 2:9-10 

Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.

The verse above leaves open for interpretation and, dare I say, personal opinion and preference as to what is respectable and modest. Erika demands that freedom for her short hair but refuses to give it to others who do not feel called to wear dresses only. 

I went to high school with some Pentecostal kids (they were all related) and they were actually some of the most popular kids in school. They were smart and funny and all very nice.  Interestingly, my kids went to school with the children and nieces and nephews of these same people (in a different town) Anyway, the verse below is the reference they give for why they - AS A BODY, meaning it is a consistent church teaching - believe women should wear dresses only. 

Deuteronomy 22:5 

“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Some of the younger generations are allowing their girls to wear pants until they are baptized, which is usually late elementary school. Of course, even this verse is open for very broad interpretation but, in my opinion, it makes more sense than a vague and ever changing definition of modesty. 

I really just want Erika to cite a scripture that talks about crotches.  It's all about the crotch with this woman. I am hyper aware when meeting people and I have never noticed a man's eyes dart to my crotch when I'm wearing jeans.  Some women do that up-down judgy thing with their eyes to check out my outfit (I hate that) but men do not steal glances at my crotch. 

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lauraloralara

What breaks my heart most about Erika's fixation on Karen's weight is that the Shupe kids are SEVERELY* limited in their interaction with the outside world. They have very limited access to the Internet, as their computers and laptops are not Internet-connected, they do not have a TV, and even their non-family interactions are limited to like-minded fundamentalist families. All this is to say that Karen and the other kids have far fewer means of hearing "your body is not good enough" compared to their non-fundie counterparts. They are not seeing those messages on MTV or Instagram or anything because they don't have access to those media, so it's pretty obvious where they are hearing it from: their parents (don't want to exculpate Bob in all this) and perhaps their church. I'm sure Karen has seen scandalizing pictures and weight-loss stories on the cover of People magazine when she helps Erika shop, but that exposure, in my mind, cannot hold a candle to whatever messages she has to be getting at home, whether subtle or explicit.

And 15 pounds off that girl blows my mind. I hate even commenting on children's appearances, but all the Shupe kids (IMO) are pretty cute, and the two oldest girls are very pretty. There's so many other messages that those kids need to hear besides anything related to how they look ("It's okay not to have every minute scheduled!" "Celebrating Halloween will not get you a one-way ticket to Hell." "You are an individual person who matters on your own terms, not just as part of a quiverfull trophy brood."), but good lord, it's hard for me to see how Erika could ever make a negative comment to her kids about their appearances. But as the LORD finds a way, so does Erika, I suppose. 

*My favorite adverb thanks to JRod!

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nickelodeon

For all their talk about being thin "to get a man" I wonder if it's something fundie men even think about. Like I wonder if they can even tell a difference between the healthy girl and the "very thin because her mom weight shamed her" girl. 

You just know those high-forehead high-waisted-jeans fundie boys buy into the whole awful "skinnier = hotter" program picked up from fleeting glimpses of worldly kids their age, though they probably spin it like "weight is a sign of slothfulness and gluttony, slim thighs are a righteous woman's glory!"

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grandmadugger

You just know those high-forehead high-waisted-jeans fundie boys buy into the whole awful "skinnier = hotter" program picked up from fleeting glimpses of worldly kids their age, though they probably spin it like "weight is a sign of slothfulness and gluttony, slim thighs are a righteous woman's glory!"

I'm short, widely built, and will never in a million years be smaller than a size 8.  My hips just won't move in any farther.  My grandma always told me, "You come from good breeding stock.  Nice wide hips to make birthing easy.  Stocky and strong enough to help on the farm.  If you were born in my day and age you would have had men beating down your door."  But not these fundie men they want a woman who is so thin a good strong wind will knock them over and probably have an ED thanks to their mothers.

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defraudingjezebel

You just know those high-forehead high-waisted-jeans fundie boys buy into the whole awful "skinnier = hotter" program picked up from fleeting glimpses of worldly kids their age, though they probably spin it like "weight is a sign of slothfulness and gluttony, slim thighs are a righteous woman's glory!"

Yep, I think you and @lauraloralara are right on the money. Fundies are more caught up in worldliness than they'd like you to believe and I think personal appearance is one of those ways. I think even if the kids aren't exposed to the whole skinny=good undertone from worldly things, they'll get it from their parents. Look at Steve Maxwell- he makes Erika look footloose and fancy free in comparison because he has such an obsession with eating less and eating bland food and his kids have ZERO influence from the outside world. 

Nevertheless, they definitely moralize food and weight (really, women's weight) in a way that makes me feel sick for those kids. I mean, us worldly folk are exposed to body negativity constantly but at least we can access resources/literature that make us aware of how harmful and full of BS it is. 

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