Erika Shupe *fake smile* Large Families on Purpose Part 2

[Eternalbluepearl]

Thank you. That is what I meant and I apologize for my poor wording. 

 

No worries. I like to make fun of Erika as much as the next FJ-er. I'm just glad Erika at least tries to think about nutrition. Sorry if I was rude. 

[usmcmom]

I apologize if I sounded like I was speaking for you- I was really just going off on a tangent about what you had already said. 

No apologies necessary. I just didn't expound on my thoughts far enough.  For the record, am I the only one who thinks the little boy in question is not just short but appears underweight?  I think this has been a topic of discussion before on the forum but I could be mistaken.

 

[apandaaries]

No apologies necessary. I just didn't expound on my thoughts far enough.  For the record, am I the only one who thinks the little boy in question is not just short but appears underweight?  I think this has been a topic of discussion before on the forum but I could be mistaken.

 

FTR, I also think the children, especially the boys, appear underweight and also short for their ages and the height of their parents.  I also checked the smoothie recipe, and it appears to be all fruits and vegetables -- no protein beyond the flax oil (2-3 tblsp) and whatever little the fruits and veggies contribute.  She assures us that this has cured her hypoglycemia, but I have my doubts.  I also highly doubt that a medical professional would okay that diet for the children, given that the next  meal (no snacks, remember!) is a salad.  My DD is 11 and has expressed interest in veganism. When we discussed this with her pediatrician, she had serious reservations and said that it was very difficult to get adequate nutrition for a growing body without any animal products.  Luckily, that helped convince my daughter to be more open to a vegetarian lifestyle, so she could still have eggs, yogurt, etc.  (I became a vegetarian at 11, too, so that doesn't bug me and I've spent plenty of time researching nutrition since then.)

Erika's clearly not vegan nor vegetarian, but by limiting their meals so strictly, she's also limiting their overall calorie load.  Kids need more calorie-dense foods to grow; their stomachs are smaller and fill faster. Kids also need plenty of fat for brain development.  More fruits and veggies would help a LOT of Americans, but this is basically a house-sanctioned eating disorder.  She doesn't allow snacks and the only filling, decent meal is dinner, when Bob is there.  I'm all for people knowing more about nutrition and raising their children better, but this isn't what that looks like.  

Moreover, we have (AFAIK) never heard of Erika taking the children to a doctor.  I can recall one post about how well-behaved her kids were when SHE was at a chiropractor's office, but I can't recall anything about medical or dental care for the children (beyond the kids not getting to brush their own teeth until age, what, 12).  All we have are what she reports and photographs, and I'm just not convinced that those kids are getting enough to eat, especially the boys.  A word about what their doctor had to say, how the kids were on a chart compared to other kids, *something* to indicate that she's caring for the whole child, not just their "spiritual development," would help ease my mind.  The evidence she presents, however, just makes me more concerned for them. 

ETA: I've got a kid who'll eat Brussels sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, greens, beans, lettuces, ALL fruits, etc.  She's a little hesitant about mushrooms (though she enjoys my mushroom risotto), raw onions, and spicy peppers, but I also serve these foods with filling main courses, like polenta with cheese or quesadillas -- whatever, but there's a balance of starches, protein, and vegetables, both raw and cooked.  She makes her own smoothies, helps in the kitchen, and meets with her pediatrician on a regular basis to make sure she's healthy.  It's totally possible to make that happen without being a hyper-controlling drill sergeant. 

[defraudingjezebel]

 

Moreover, we have (AFAIK) never heard of Erika taking the children to a doctor.  I can recall one post about how well-behaved her kids were when SHE was at a chiropractor's office, but I can't recall anything about medical or dental care for the children (beyond the kids not getting to brush their own teeth until age, what, 12).  All we have are what she reports and photographs, and I'm just not convinced that those kids are getting enough to eat, especially the boys.  A word about what their doctor had to say, how the kids were on a chart compared to other kids, *something* to indicate that she's caring for the whole child, not just their "spiritual development," would help ease my mind.  The evidence she presents, however, just makes me more concerned for them. 

[snipped for length]

I almost brought up this point but didn't to avoid starting some drama here.  But I agree, there are only a few times where she mentions a doctor in her blog. Most of the time she talks about her naturopathic chiropractor. Not to knock either of those things (because Lord knows sometimes natural cures work the best and chiros can work those kinks out), but neither of those qualifications are suitable to treat all issues. 

I do wonder how often she takes her kids to an MD/nurse practitioner, etc. I wonder if having to worry about the medical care of that many children is a financial strain. I know they use Samaritan but it doesn't cover them 100%. Even if they had to pay, say $20 per kid per visit, that means just a yearly checkup would be nearly $200 (that's a really low-ball estimate too). I really dislike going to the doctor but I still find myself going at least 2-3 times a year for something or the other. That kind of cost would really stack up with that many children. 

[pnwgypsy]

I wonder what would happen if one of the kids told her they were hungry between meals?

[iweartanktops]

I wonder what would happen if one of the kids told her they were hungry between meals?

 

I've wondered about this many times. I think they would be offered whatever they didn't finish from the previous meal. If that was finished, probably a carrot and no other options. Or something else that doesn't offer much nutrition. 

[Antimony]

I guess I would describe most of Erika's cooking as the antithesis of "hearty home cooked food." That would really, really, really bug me. I probably don't eat the healthiest (but I think I eat a fair amount of fruit and veg and I make a lot of pots of curried veg!) but one of the main factors that I think contributes to overall happiness is the feeling you get from hearty, homecooked meals.

When I come home from work (where my lunch is usually cereal or protein bars because I don't have a lunch break and I do a lot of my eating while teaching), coming home to soup or a pot of curried vegetables with rice is a huge day maker -- feels warm, homey, full of flavor, great way to come in from the cold walk home. I don't see that in her lifestyle, really. 
 

The real scare is that Karen was once (or maybe still is) on her diet: http://www.freejinger.org/topic/15802-scary-nutrition-plan-for-teenagers-over-at-erikas-blog/

I also wouldn't (couldn't?) eat a salad with so little dressing or flavor. It doesn't have to be smothered, either. I like to make salads in tupperware and SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE so it all evenly distributes but I don't end up eating...just...lettuce, basically. 

I also don't see how forcing to eat disliked foods fixes this. Try preparing it a different way! Anything! I didn't like brussel sprouts (classic to dislike) until an encounter at a tapas restaurant. Life changed!

[iweartanktops]

Also, I'm really sick right now, so I'm trying to just follow along without posting much. I probably don't make much sense. 

[apandaaries]

I almost brought up this point but didn't to avoid starting some drama here.  But I agree, there are only a few times where she mentions a doctor in her blog. Most of the time she talks about her naturopathic chiropractor. Not to knock either of those things (because Lord knows sometimes natural cures work the best and chiros can work those kinks out), but neither of those qualifications are suitable to treat all issues. 

I do wonder how often she takes her kids to an MD/nurse practitioner, etc. I wonder if having to worry about the medical care of that many children is a financial strain. I know they use Samaritan but it doesn't cover them 100%. Even if they had to pay, say $20 per kid per visit, that means just a yearly checkup would be nearly $200 (that's a really low-ball estimate too). I really dislike going to the doctor but I still find myself going at least 2-3 times a year for something or the other. That kind of cost would really stack up with that many children. 

The financial aspect could definitely be prohibitive.  I'm not of the mindset that doctors are gods, by any means, but I like the idea of homeschooled kids getting examined by a mandated reported.  That idea is SEVERELY important to me, especially seeing so many scrawny fundie kids.  I'd like a lot of these kiddos to 

I guess I would describe most of Erika's cooking as the antithesis of "hearty home cooked food." That would really, really, really bug me. I probably don't eat the healthiest (but I think I eat a fair amount of fruit and veg and I make a lot of pots of curried veg!) but one of the main factors that I think contributes to overall happiness is the feeling you get from hearty, homecooked meals.

When I come home from work (where my lunch is usually cereal or protein bars because I don't have a lunch break and I do a lot of my eating while teaching), coming home to soup or a pot of curried vegetables with rice is a huge day maker -- feels warm, homey, full of flavor, great way to come in from the cold walk home. I don't see that in her lifestyle, really. 
 

The real scare is that Karen was once (or maybe still is) on her diet: http://www.freejinger.org/topic/15802-scary-nutrition-plan-for-teenagers-over-at-erikas-blog/

I also wouldn't (couldn't?) eat a salad with so little dressing or flavor. It doesn't have to be smothered, either. I like to make salads in tupperware and SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE so it all evenly distributes but I don't end up eating...just...lettuce, basically. 
 

I too love knowing I have a hot, delicious, nutritious meal for supper.  It completely changes my day; no matter how things have been going, to have something wonderful waiting (or waiting to be prepared) is amazing.  Food, warmth, and comfort don't seem to be too aligned in her household.

Oddly, my daughter would be okay with that salad, while I would want a little something more.  She prefers to have her veggies without dressing and separated, so her plate often looks like a deconstructed salad is on her plate.  I'm the one who needs all the flavors tossed together and given a little something extra in the form of dressing.  I just keep her veggies separated on her plate, and toss mine together in a bowl.  And then we also have other foods to accompany the salad.  

I bet Karen is still on that diet.  If it's good for mama, it must be good for the whole brood, right?  Regardless of differences in age, nutritional needs, metabolic rates, etc.  Sigh. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

I don't know if this is just a phrase I'm not used to hearing, but Erika always describes meal time as a time when the kids "sit up to the table." That's a weird phrase to me. I would just say "sit at the table." Must be a regional thing. 

[Antimony]

Because Erika is my favorite to hate, I have taken it upon myself to scour her blog for what I shall deem her "food crimes" -- representing her food nonsense and hypocrisy. Also, it's Friday night and I don't feel like working on a paper right now. 

"Well, I was really hesitant to try these vegetarian burgers that my sister highly recommended to me because I cannot handle cooked spinach as a general rule. "

Maybe, when Bob get's home, he can encourage her to eat it. *kinky*!

"And I was just thrilled to recently learn on our Whole Foods adventure that spinach is full of protein - so this is a complete meal! " 

Spinach is now a protein, apparently. (However, for 340 g of spinach you have 10g protein and for 140g of chicken, you have 38g of protein soooo, it's not really a competition here.)

Erika puts sour cream directly into her guacamole which is....nearly offensive to me for some reason. And I ADORE sour cream entirely too much. But this is just weird and nasty to me. Why prepare it this way? Why not just make guacamole and serve with sour cream also if you have dips? Somebody explain this! She also just throws the salsa right in...

This is not fresh guacamole by far. 

Erika also gives us a cheese soup recipe that is " It is chocked full of veggies"

Let's take a look at the ingredients...
"

• 1 leek, sliced
• 4 carrots, sliced (equal to about 25 "baby carrots")
• 1 lg. onion, sliced
• 2 stalks celery, sliced"
  
  In my humble opinion, this doesn't count as "chocked full" for a meal that serves 8.
  
  This comes out to 1/8 onion, 1/2 a carrot, 1/4 celery stalk, and 1/8 leek. You'd get more from a plate of crudite. 

 

[feministxtian]

I was looking at Erika's "recipes" and comparing what I used to feed my tribe when they were growing up...20 years ago when I had smaller kids, our grocery budget was almost 100 dollars a week. Breakfast, in the winter, was some sort of hot cereal, fruit and milk (full fat milk). Lunch depended on what we were doing and I wasn't beyond PB&J sandwiches with fruit, chips, milk, Dinner was always a full meal, meat, starch, veggie, and maybe a sweet. The kids were able to snack during the day, mostly fruits, or granola or something like that. I would dehydrate fruits and the kids snacked on those too. OR they could have my 'world famous' oatmeal raisin cookies that used applesauce instead of shortening and butter...so they were a bit healthier.

Erika's meals do not look like they have enough of much of anything for a growing child. Boys are usually HUNGRY! I mean HUNGRY! Keeping healthy snacks around wouldn't hurt anyone. There are plenty of one dish meals that are easy, filling and nutritious...I made them then and I make them now. Keeping rice, dried beans, chicken breasts, a couple of bags of frozen veggies on hand will make all sorts of great dinners.

And...my kids had two choices at dinnertime..."take it or leave it"...however, I really never had problems with the kids...it would be more of someone "didn't feel like eating" or just wanting to see if they could get away with something.

 

[Granwych]

But you make sense.  

I don't think it's an attachment to homeschooling that Erika has, it's an attachment to having the perfect fundie family and lifestyle, to mirror people like the Maxwells.  

In another world, had Erika not been fundie, there are a lot of other careers that would have fit her better than fundie homeschooling SAHM.  She'd be great in the military or a shrewd businesswoman.

I think her oldest son looks like he has a growth disorder.

[defraudingjezebel]

@Antimony Yes! I am all about snarking on recipes. I remember seeing that guacamole recipe a while back and cringing at the thought of cutting guacamole with sour cream. It is her most egregious food sin, but then again I'm from Texas and I get really upset when it comes to anything that adulterates avocados. I too love sour cream but I want it separate from my guac, thank you very much!

Most of her recipe posts are quite old. The only new one is the granola recipe, because apparently people were requesting it on facebook after she mentioned it. The reason I say that is because many of her older recipes definitely wouldn't fly in the Trim Healthy Mama diet, which restricts how many legumes and grains you can eat. I wonder if she cooks a separate meal for herself... Hmm....

[Sundaymorning]

What is Bob's job?

I'm always amazed how certain people think it's actually a good idea to have eleventy children when you can't afford to feed and house them properly.

[Queen Of Hearts]

What is Bob's job?

I'm always amazed how certain people think it's actually a good idea to have eleventy children when you can't afford to feed and house them properly.

Bob co-owns (with Erika's brother) some kind of fire restoration business.  I think they do things like clean up the smoke damaged items that are left in people's home's after a fire.  I will give him credit that he does seem to work hard at a real job, unlike so many other fundie men.  I find him less offensive than the average fundie out there.

[apandaaries]

@Antimony Yes! I am all about snarking on recipes. I remember seeing that guacamole recipe a while back and cringing at the thought of cutting guacamole with sour cream. It is her most egregious food sin, but then again I'm from Texas and I get really upset when it comes to anything that adulterates avocados. I too love sour cream but I want it separate from my guac, thank you very much!

Most of her recipe posts are quite old. The only new one is the granola recipe, because apparently people were requesting it on facebook after she mentioned it. The reason I say that is because many of her older recipes definitely wouldn't fly in the Trim Healthy Mama diet, which restricts how many legumes and grains you can eat. I wonder if she cooks a separate meal for herself... Hmm....

She is a monster.  How can she defile avocados in such a way?  

I'm browsing around through her blog and she mentions having to update the meal planning since adopting THM.  It's from 2013, though, and she rarely updates.  At that time, she, Karen, and Bob were the three dieters.  It doesn't seem to be working so well for Bob, and I wonder if Melanie has been forced onto the diet, too.  Karen certainly wasn't overweight (nor age appropriate) when she was started on the diet, so signing Melanie up doesn't seem too far-fetched.  

[desertvixen]

I agree that Erika would LOVE military life - or at least making her kids live the rigid lifestyle of the military. I hesitate to share this for fear of giving her ideas, but I've watched my son prepare his uniforms while he was home on leave. Erika would *smile* *beam* over the details to which he had to adhere.  They issue them little rulers to dress. Each medal/ribbon has to be a precise distance from the collar and shoulder, the belt must have a specific length showing outside the buckle. The end of the tie must hit at a precise measurement above the waistband (or below; I can't remember all of it)  When in utilities (cammies), if sleeves are rolled, the cuffs must be a precise width and they better be flat with sharp creases.  I've seen my son iron creases in his trousers that were sharp enough to cut cold butter. 

The Maxwells would NOT do well in the Marines because, while in any sort of dress uniform, they can have nothing in their pockets - not even a cell phone. When we were on base, we saw many Marines stop and lift their pant leg and pull their phone out of their sock.  It was quite defrauding to see those muscular calves but rules are rules. 

It's even worse putting women's uniforms together, because we don't have the pockets (due to having breasts).  Luckily Army does not have to iron the cammies anymore.  Love the ruler, it is helpful.

Also, the way they make the dress pants, you're lucky to get a cell phone in them in the first place.

[older than allosaurs]

I don't know if this is just a phrase I'm not used to hearing, but Erika always describes meal time as a time when the kids "sit up to the table." That's a weird phrase to me. I would just say "sit at the table." Must be a regional thing. 

I live nearby and grew up within 100 miles, and it's not a standard usage. But maybe regional to her family background. I had a neighbor my age who also grew up around here who would say "you used to could" about something that used to be doable but is no longer. I'd never heard that before, but maybe it's from wherever her own folks hailed from originally.

 

 

[usmcmom]

It's even worse putting women's uniforms together, because we don't have the pockets (due to having breasts).  Luckily Army does not have to iron the cammies anymore.  Love the ruler, it is helpful.

Also, the way they make the dress pants, you're lucky to get a cell phone in them in the first place.

 

Do you have shirt stays?  Those things fascinated me. They are like suspenders (for those who don't know) and one end attaches to the bottom of the shirt; the other end attaches to the sock. They wear two (one for each sock) to keep the shirt neatly tucked into the trousers. I'd think fundies would grab these up to keep their young men looking neat and tidy all the time. 

Edited to add: THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE! 

[grandmadugger]

OT, but you can also buy some vanilla bean pods and infuse the sugar yourself.  I've done it with the vanilla pod, sugar, a Mason jar, and some time.  Or make your own vanilla extract with the pod and vodka or rum.  Not a bad homemade gift to give, either, with a bit of pre-planning. 

Bless your heart, my dear.  FJ should have a merchandise shop with modest parkas.  

Try the vanilla pod in some bourbon to make bourbon vanilla.  It's heavenly to cook with.

[iweartanktops]

I noticed that on the LFOP Facebook page, where she shared the grocery shopping post, a couple people commented to ask how she handles snacking. I'm waiting for a response... 

Also, it annoys me that she thinks nuts and cheese are protein sources. They're fat sources. 

[lilith]

I always read the title of this thread as "Fake Families on Purpose"

[elliha]

I think I am mainly bothered by lunch always being a salad than other aspects of what the children are fed. I really think they would benefit from some more variation and as some said, soups are easy to prepare in advance and making enough soup for say 2-3 lunches should be easily possible given that they now are more or less 4 people being old enough to cook food. Salads the other days would be fine by me but why not a bit more variation than the same salad? Why not vegetables that are separated that children enjoy eating more? Why not do baked cauliflower/broccoli dish? Why not an oven omelet? Both these things could be thrown together in minutes even to a large family and be served with vegetables but would be hot dishes with a bit more nutrients than just salad and not very expensive either. 

As for snacks, I was rarely given snacks as a child and we had three meals a day. If I was hungry between meals which happened maybe once every two weeks or so I got a sandwish or a fruit and some milk but the norm was breakfast, lunch and dinner in my family and nothing else and we are all fully normal adults today. My parents never did special food either but unlike Erika we were never forced to eat the food. We could refuse to eat something but were encouraged to try everything. We got meat or fish for a normal serving and if we didn't want potatoes we could eat more vegetables or some bread. As I am Swedish "bread" meant hard rye bread like Wasa crackers or Ryvita, toast or other types of "soft" bread was only served at breakfast or with a fancy meal. 

[Hisey]

I have thought for a long time that Erika's kids are malnourished. I have two kids, between the ages of Brandon and Melanie and they would need way more than a salad for lunch. They pack their own lunches in the morning, and it usually includes a protein, a fruit, starch and a sweet of some kind.

I think Erika serves salad because of cost--she's mentioned that. Still, peanut and jelly is cheap and I could see that being much more amenable to a little boy, along with an apple and some milk. I've never been a fan of salad so maybe I'm prejudiced, but it just seems so unappetizing and unfulfilling on a cold winter's day.

Same with those green smoothies. They seem gross to me. And it's so weird the way the kids drink the smoothies in different parts of the room (a few are sent to a "smoothie corner"), all as part of Erika's attempt to control them.

I think Erika keeps them malnourished and hungry, and then manipulates them to do things using  junk food, like Jelly Bellys. All you have to do is look at pictures of those kids, they look pale and undernourished, especially Brandon. I just want to give that little boy in the picture a great big hamburger! On top of that, those kids don't get much exercise at all. They are inside all day. Erika has said that for nine months of the year, it's "too muddy" to use the yard. If you look at her post on scheduling a three year old boy, not once does that boy step outdoors during the day.

So yes, she pays attention to water consumption (which is good), but her idea of nutrition seems twisted to fit her own agenda.

The good thing is, there are nine of them and one of her, so I"m sure there's lots of sneaking going on.