Bob Evans employees claim Confederate flag cost one his job

[hahe77]

http://www.hillsdale.net/article/201510 ... /151009258

Not breaking the link because it's a newspaper.

This just happened in my town. And the people supporting him is unreal.

HILLSDALE — After the Confederate flag received extensive media attention this year as the banner of a racist mass murderer in South Carolina, many of the flag’s faithful stewards remain adamant that it is a symbol of remembrance, not xenophobia and hate.

Now, Wesley Rogers of Hillsdale claims that that assertion cost him his job at the Bob Evans plant in Hillsdale.

“I had the Confederate flag hanging from my truck [in the parking lot],†Rogers said, “and I was asked to remove it†by management on Tuesday.

The termination was apparently preceded by the original complaint on Friday, when Rogers’s supervisors brought the issue to him after receiving an “anonymous complaint†via telephone, according to Rogers.

Reaching no resolution that day, Rogers and his supervisors met again on Tuesday, and they presented the same ultimatum.

The Confederate flag became a figure of national controversy after photos surfaced depicting Dylann Roof, the mass shooter who killed nine people in a predominantly black church in Charleston, South Carolina, proudly displaying the Confederate flag while burning the American flag.

In response, legislation ensued that prohibited the display of the Confederate symbol at federal cemeteries, several state capitol buildings and more. Many proponents of the flag display it as an act of pride and defiance, despite its modern connotations.

Rogers said that when he refused to hide or dismount the flag, he was terminated on the spot.

“They said they were doing their best to follow up on a complaint,†Rogers said, “to make [the person who lodged the complaint] more comfortable. But I wasn’t comfortable with it.

“I said it wasn’t coming down, no way,†he continued. “Then they showed me my way out.â€

One of Rogers’s former co-workers, who still works at the plant and requested anonymity, said that Rogers had been flying the flag since early 2015 without incident, until last week. They also said that corporate representatives held a meeting at the plant on Wednesday, the day after Rogers’s termination, during which they informed employees of an apparent policy change in the wake of the incident.

“They made it clear,†the source said. “Whoever flies [the Confederate flag] will face termination.â€

They said they raised the issue and questioned supervisors on the issue, but received no explanation.

“I felt like I had the right to express myself,†Rogers said.

Paul Monahan of the Bob Evans plant was unable to provide comment to the Hillsdale Daily News, instead referring to a corporate communications director who did not return several calls as of press time.

The source said that the plant provides “at-will employment,†meaning that Bob Evans can dismiss an employee without notice or having to establish just cause. All the same — the stigma of the flag and the cultural controversy surrounding it notwithstanding — Rogers said that he feels like he was discriminated against.

“They were misunderstanding me,†Rogers said. “A lot of people think that it’s racist. It’s not racist; it’s my heritage. I grew up in the south, in Virginia. It’s been made into a symbol of hate. I’m not hanging it because I’m a racist. I’m handing it because I’m a southerner.â€

Rogers also said that while he needs to support his family, the Bob Evans plant is “not where [he wants] to be,†and that he intends to use his unrelated certifications to obtain employment elsewhere in the county.

Several attempts to reach a Bob Evans representative for a quote went unanswered, leaving the story developing. It is unknown if this incident signals a widespread policy change for Bob Evans corporate culture, or if it’s intended as a measure for the Hillsdale plant or local outlets only. Should we receive correspondence from a Bob Evans representative, we will update the story to include their comments.

[formergothardite]

So basically he was being told he couldn't display a racist symbol of hate and oppression on the property of Bob Evans and he refused and then got fired? Not an ounce of pity from me. And yes, it is a racist symbol. :angry-banghead:

[Ex-Creationist]

I wonder if this guy will take down the flag while he goes on job interviews.

No idea where I'm going with that. I think I just genuinely wonder what he'll do now that he's unemployed.

[hahe77]

Sadly, he is finding tons of support from the community and people telling him to sue. I keep waiting for Fox News to pick the story up.

[ThisOlGirl]

Sadly, he is finding tons of support from the community and people telling him to sue. I keep waiting for Fox News to pick the story up.

Those people are probably the same people who say that a Christian bakery can refuse to bake a cake for a hay couple because it's their business and they can run it however they want.

[gustava]

I am as liberal as the day is long, and have slave owning ancestors on both sides of my family. I loathe the Confederate flag as symbol of hate and racism...and ignorance.

However, I will fight for the right of anyone to fly it from their vehicle or their house.

[doggie]

I am as liberal as the day is long, and have slave owning ancestors on both sides of my family. I loathe the Confederate flag as symbol of hate and racism...and ignorance.

However, I will fight for the right of anyone to fly it from their vehicle or their house.

but on someone else s land? Thats the point here. Now flying a flag from your truck proves how American you are and how crazy americans are.

[formergothardite]

He has the right to fly it, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences. He has the right to fly the Nazi flag or a "I hate gays" flag, but the company he works with had the right to ask him to take it down while it was on their property because they don't want to be associated with a symbol of hatred. He lost his job because his truck was parked in their parking lot and he refused to take it down. They have a right to do that.

[gustava]

Then they also have the right to tell me I can't fly a Peace flag or a Rainbow flag. I'm not comfortable with banning stuff just because it makes other people uncomfortable, at least for adults. K12 is another matter.

[Peas n carrots]

I don't get these morons. I have confederate ancestors too, and I don't feel shame nor pride in this fact. It's sad that people don't or fail to recognize other positive points of pride in their lives and heritage.

[Black Aliss]

I am as liberal as the day is long, and have slave owning ancestors on both sides of my family. I loathe the Confederate flag as symbol of hate and racism...and ignorance.

However, I will fight for the right of anyone to fly it from their vehicle or their house.

I don't think anyone is arguing against that right. But when you park your vehicle on private property, the owner of that property also has a right to say, "this looks bad for business and you can't display that flag here." The First Amendment says only that the government can't censor what you say.

[Peas n carrots]

I don't think anyone is arguing against that right. But when you park your vehicle on private property, the owner of that property also has a right to say, "this looks bad for business and you can't display that flag here." The First Amendment says only that the government can't censor what you say.

This. The man could take down this flag when he is on the Bob Evans property and put it back up when he leaves.

I guarantee if I had a recognized symbol of hate hanging up in my cubicle HR would have a conversation with me very quickly. Your employees are a reflection of your business.

[DaisyD]

Oh that flag. It's such a nuanced thing. The civil war started because slave owners thought that Lincoln was going to take away their slaves. However, for the most part, those slave owners didn't fight, so they had to sell the war to non slave owners by touting state's rights. What you end up with is some people seeing it as a defense of slavery and other people seeing it as a symbol of independence. I grew up on Dukes of Hazzard. That flag always represented independence to me. I never saw it as a white supremacy thing. Don't assume that anyone who flys it is racist.

All of that being said. A state government has no business flying the battle flag of a defunct government, let alone a flag that doesn't officially represent their government. That's the difference between government and private citizens.

In this case, the company has every right to ban certain things on property they own. It appears that they are in a right to work state, so they can absolutely fire him for whatever reason as long as it's not an equal rights violation. He was given an order from a superior, he disobeyed it, he was fired. He may have recourse if it wasn't company policy at the time of his firing, but I doubt it.

[urban teacher]

Or he could not park the truck on the property and walk. Option number 2.

Either way, private property gets to say what they will have.

[formergothardite]

Oh that flag. It's such a nuanced thing. The civil war started because slave owners thought that Lincoln was going to take away their slaves. However, for the most part, those slave owners didn't fight, so they had to sell the war to non slave owners by touting state's rights. What you end up with is some people seeing it as a defense of slavery and other people seeing it as a symbol of independence. I grew up on Dukes of Hazzard. That flag always represented independence to me. I never saw it as a white supremacy thing. Don't assume that anyone who flys it is racist.

All of that being said. A state government has no business flying the battle flag of a defunct government, let alone a flag that doesn't officially represent their government. That's the difference between government and private citizens.

In this case, the company has every right to ban certain things on property they own. It appears that they are in a right to work state, so they can absolutely fire him for whatever reason as long as it's not an equal rights violation. He was given an order from a superior, he disobeyed it, he was fired. He may have recourse if it wasn't company policy at the time of his firing, but I doubt it.

The flag that is typically shown as the Confederate flag was actually just a war flag. One of many that was made. It was brought back into popularity by Southern racist to intimidate black people during the Civil Rights era. The "Southern Heritage" they wanted black people to remember was the heritage of slavery. I don't assume all people who fly it are racist, but I do assume most are ignorant of the history of it. If they continue to fly it in pride after finding the history of it then I start thinking that they have a racist streak that they might not even realize they have. It does a great disservice to history and the people who suffered under white supremacy to change the meaning and history of that flag.

[CelticGoddess]

Employers have every right to say that a vehicle can't fly the flag, something that a lot of tea baggers forget. They are all about free enterprise, capitalism, etc until they are not allowed to proselytize or fly their flags, wear their shirts at work. Then, they use the "freedom of speech" card, failing to understand that free speech is not guaranteed by employers, but the government.

This is NOT a freedom to exercise expression issue. If the federal or state government was saying he could do this, then it would be.

[gustava]

The larger issue is that Bob Evans is an "at-will" employer, meaning they can fire anyone for anything at anytime. A sad state of affairs in Michigan, a formerly strong union state. My guess, though, is that the flag waver is a staunch tea-partier, and hates unions.

On a lighter note: This occurred in Hillsdale, Michigan, home of ultra right wing Christian Hillsdale College, whose president boffed his son's wife, who subsequently committed suicide. And for those who'll throw brickbats that I'm joking about suicide, I don't have much concern when hypocrites remove themselves from the gene pool.

http://www.salon.com/2000/01/19/hillsdale/

[DaisyD]

I don't understand why people can't accept that one thing can mean different things to different people. I certainly hope that my grandchildren won't have to feel ashamed of the "don't tread on me" flag just because the psychotic tea party assholes decided to claim it for their cause.

[formergothardite]

Why choose a flag of oppression and tyranny to represent independence? Why choose a flag that offends people? I don't get it. There are lots of options if you want to choose a flag to represent independence, so why choose the one whose history is the opposite of independence and freedom?

[DaisyD]

It's not a flag of oppression and tyranny though. It's the battle flag of Lee's army. In all honesty, that's all it should represent. Different people have used it for different purposes since then. Some used it to defend Jim Crow, others used it to represent independence (hence what I always called it "rebel flag").

If I'm being perfectly honest about why I'm so irritated by the whole mess is that it feels like these assholes are absconding with a beloved childhood memory so they can claim innocence in nefarious purposes. I don't blame people for getting upset by it, and totally support taking it down from all government buildings (they represent the the system to be bucked after all). I just wish we could reclaim it. And I REALLY hope my grankids' generation doesn't have to try to reclaim the flag the tea party is absconding with.

[ViolaSebastian]

It's not a flag of oppression and tyranny though. It's the battle flag of Lee's army. In all honesty, that's all it should represent. Different people have used it for different purposes since then. Some used it to defend Jim Crow, others used it to represent independence (hence what I always called it "rebel flag").

If I'm being perfectly honest about why I'm so irritated by the whole mess is that it feels like these assholes are absconding with a beloved childhood memory so they can claim innocence in nefarious purposes. I don't blame people for getting upset by it, and totally support taking it down from all government buildings (they represent the the system to be bucked after all). I just wish we could reclaim it. And I REALLY hope my grankids' generation doesn't have to try to reclaim the flag the tea party is absconding with.

Lee's army was fighting for the enslavement and oppression of people based on their race, thus making the flag that represented aforementioned army also a symbol of oppression and enslavement.

[Peas n carrots]

I don't understand why people can't accept that one thing can mean different things to different people. I certainly hope that my grandchildren won't have to feel ashamed of the "don't tread on me" flag just because the psychotic tea party assholes decided to claim it for their cause.

Yes and those nice skinhead boys think the swastika is a sign of empowerment.

Unfortunately symbols get co-opted and the wider definition changes over time. The swastika wasn't always a universally understood symbol of white supremacy, but I'm not about to hang one outside my house just because in India it's a sign of good fortune.

Edited

[DaisyD]

Yes and those nice skinhead boys think the swastika is a sign of empowerment.

Unfortunately symbols get co-opted and the wider definition changes over time. The swastika wasn't always a universally understood symbol of white supremacy, but I'm not about to hang one outside my house just because in India it's a sign of good fortune.

Edited

And I'm aloud to think that is really sad.

[doggie]

It's not a flag of oppression and tyranny though. It's the battle flag of Lee's army. In all honesty, that's all it should represent. Different people have used it for different purposes since then. Some used it to defend Jim Crow, others used it to represent independence (hence what I always called it "rebel flag").

If I'm being perfectly honest about why I'm so irritated by the whole mess is that it feels like these assholes are absconding with a beloved childhood memory so they can claim innocence in nefarious purposes. I don't blame people for getting upset by it, and totally support taking it down from all government buildings (they represent the the system to be bucked after all). I just wish we could reclaim it. And I REALLY hope my grankids' generation doesn't have to try to reclaim the flag the tea party is absconding with.

Plus lee told his men to put the flag away it was a sign of a traitor.

[formergothardite]

It's not a flag of oppression and tyranny though. It's the battle flag of Lee's army. In all honesty, that's all it should represent. Different people have used it for different purposes since then. Some used it to defend Jim Crow, others used it to represent independence (hence what I always called it "rebel flag").

If I'm being perfectly honest about why I'm so irritated by the whole mess is that it feels like these assholes are absconding with a beloved childhood memory so they can claim innocence in nefarious purposes. I don't blame people for getting upset by it, and totally support taking it down from all government buildings (they represent the the system to be bucked after all). I just wish we could reclaim it. And I REALLY hope my grankids' generation doesn't have to try to reclaim the flag the tea party is absconding with.

What country was Lee fighting to defend? The Confederacy. What was the cornerstone of the Confederacy? Slavery. It is right there in the Confederate Constitution. Slavery could never be made illegal. It was a country of tyranny and oppression and that flag was designed to defend it. Decades later it was made popular again by people who yet again used it to oppress others. There is nothing to reclaim here unless you want to reclaim tyranny, oppression and racism.

Like I said, why use an offensive flag whose history is tyranny and oppression to represent independence? Why not choose a flag that wasn't designed to defend oppression? History shouldn't be white washed and by turning this flag into a symbol of freedom that is what is happening. It goes beyond people considering the Rebel flag as a symbol of independence and freedom to people thinking the Confederacy was a country of freedom and independence.