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Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion -14


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justmy2cents
Yeah, I did see those episodes during the Nepal arc, and remembered that Jim Bob sensed that Jill and Derick would be a good fit, which was why he introduced them to each other.

I didn't see anything wrong with that in and of itself, but there have been a couple of posters in other threads that mentioned Jill being indecisive about Derick during the Nepal trip, and suggesting that Jim Bob pushed her into the relationship, so that was why I asked if I'd missed something.

To me, they looked like they were happy. Jim Bob, on the other hand, looked miserable at certain points, like when he and Jill were eating the food and when he watched Jill and Derick walk ahead of him.

I just saw the ambivalence as a TLC plot line, to build tension within the episode. I think by the time Jill asked to go to Nepal to meet Derick in person she had given away more than one piece of her heart. No way did JB have to push her into it. She flew into that courtship like she flew into Derick's arms at the airport when he returned from Nepal. Also, if she wasn't sure where Derick wanted to take the relationship, appearing hesitant might have been an act to 'save face' in case he didn't ask her to start courting officially.

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Saw this today and it reminded me that Jim Bob is 50 now.. it can't last forever, can it??

Random Duggar thing: So I'm watching the Bob Ross marathon on Twitch.tv and there's a super active chat room on the side of it.  He started painting some "happy little bushes" and someone in the chat

Jessa and Jill don't deserve to lose their shows because they were victims of their brother's molestation. They deserve to lose their shows because they got up on national television and not only defe

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singsingsing

It was totally a TLC plot line, and it was heavily edited to make it look like she was way more uncertain than she was. It was so ridiculously obvious. But I guess they thought a plot that went 'girl goes to Nepal to meet guy she really likes, they both know they want to court, Dad approves, they start courting' would be too boring. I don't know why, since TLC seems to take a special delight in making every episode as dull as humanly possible.

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Ugh, the Jill/Derick setup was SO weird to me. I've always thought that Derick purposefully asked to be prayer partners with Jim Bob so he could be set up with one of the daughters...maybe even someone other than Jill. Then Jim Bob introduced Derick to Jill because she desperately wanted a husband/to "righteously fulfill" her desires. I mean it's convenient that they both want to be missionaries, but I don't think they had a genuine courtship. Jill did not seem at all attracted to Derick during the trip to Nepal (not that I blame her, he was a hot mess), and Derick bought her an engagement ring before he ever landed back in the States (after meeting her in person ONCE!!).

I think they were both just in love with the idea of getting married/getting sex/possibly, for Derick, getting rich and famous.

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singsingsing

Yeah, I think Derick definitely approached Jim Bob to be a prayer partner at least with the subconscious hope that it might lead to something with one of the daughters. I don't think Derick was after the fame and fortune, though. This is just my opinion, but I think he was in love with the idea of having a big, tight-knit, loving, wholesome family, and a pretty, sweet, conservative Christian wife. The Duggars and their daughters represented all of that to him. I think Derick probably would've been game to accept any of the girls, though I can't see him with Jessa at all, or Jinger. Jana, maybe. I do think Jill was absolutely the right choice for him, and that they probably would've hit it off even if they'd met in a completely normal way. Their courtship seemed really rushed, but it was pretty average for fundies, really. Jessa and Ben courted so long that people here started to speculate they'd broken up.

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Ugh, the Jill/Derick setup was SO weird to me. I've always thought that Derick purposefully asked to be prayer partners with Jim Bob so he could be set up with one of the daughters...[snipped]

I dearly hope that this was the case because I think it is too batshit crazy even for a fundie to want to be prayer partners with Jim Bob, of all people... :o A wish to marry Jill or Jana or even Jessa is much more normal and understandable, in my opinion.

I am aware that I may be giving Derick too much credit here. But I am still fond of the thought that, due to his more normal upbringing, he´s not as completely brainwashed as the Duggar children and will be doing all he can to protect Izzy from the worst fundie stuff.

But, again, this may be purely wishful thinking on my part... :(

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SassyPants

I have often wondered if "Prayer Partner" also meant money donor to fund Derick's Nepal trip. I could see a local Baptist minister suggesting JB as a possible donor. Now, would JB actually give a few bucks? Maybe, for the tax write off? IDK. I always assumed that JB was a donor for Derick's Nepal trip, and as a donor, was also labeled as a prayer partner.

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Or maybe he is even worse, because he got into what he got having knowldegde of the world

I think Derruck was rootless and drifting after he graduated from college. I read an article that claimed he was basically trekking in Nepal on a student visa when he became JB's prayer partner. Same article stated Derrick was not being sponsored by a church and has never claimed he was in Nepal officially as a missionary. If that information is accurate, it would explain why he is essentially clueless about how to do legitimate mission work.

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SassyPants

I agree about Derick being rather aimless. When he left for college, his dad was still alive, and it appears that within 5 years time, not only had his dad passed away, but his mom had remarried. Lots of change for Derick.

What is even more interesting, is that in the pre- marriage financial counseling episode, Derick claimed that he would not use a credit card/incur debt to repair a disabled vehicle {asinine, by the way}, yet less than a year later, and with a wife and child to support, he quit his day job and is now grifting for a living. WOW, what a transformation.

Derick looks terrible because Derick has lost all the Dillard. He is now Derick Duggar.

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apandaaries
Yeah, I think Derick definitely approached Jim Bob to be a prayer partner at least with the subconscious hope that it might lead to something with one of the daughters. I don't think Derick was after the fame and fortune, though. This is just my opinion, but I think he was in love with the idea of having a big, tight-knit, loving, wholesome family, and a pretty, sweet, conservative Christian wife. The Duggars and their daughters represented all of that to him. I think Derick probably would've been game to accept any of the girls, though I can't see him with Jessa at all, or Jinger. Jana, maybe. I do think Jill was absolutely the right choice for him, and that they probably would've hit it off even if they'd met in a completely normal way. Their courtship seemed really rushed, but it was pretty average for fundies, really. Jessa and Ben courted so long that people here started to speculate they'd broken up.

Agree with all of this. Derick went off to college, lost his father surprisingly quickly, had his mother get diagnosed with cancer, AND get remarried, while he was experiencing culture shock in Nepal [timeline may be funky here] -- that's an enormous amount of change over a rapid period of time. [And he's keeping up that pace, marrying Jill, becoming a father AND an unemployed, grifting missionary.]

ETA: It's easy to feel unmoored and alone in the face of that many changes. Who wouldn't want a seemingly close-knit group of loving people to surround them and show them love?

The longer Derick is on my fundie radar, the more respect I lose for him. College-educated, yes, but critical thinker? No. He wanted a warm and fuzzy family and didn't bother to check for reality. He seemed to have bought into their bullshit completely. Sassy is right: he's Derick Duggar now.

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apandaaries

WHO DOES THAT IN FRONT OF THEIR CHILDREN??!! The version I saw was MUCH milder than this clip. Ewww. Also, the "does that turn you on" question right before - WHUT.

And I just gotta say, WTF?!? What they aired on the show was already pretty bad and embarrassing. The rest of the take? Holy hell! JB is straight up getting off and talking as dirty as Jesus will allow him to -- IN FRONT OF HIS DAUGHTER AND HER DATE.

Wow. Thought it was bad and nasty before, but now... Me!chelle really must have gotten rid of every thinking part of her brain YEARS ago. They are both so gross -- him for his action, her for allowing it (and we all know that wasn't the first time they horndogged out in front of their kids).

Vile. :ew:

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SilverBeach

The story was told over and over again on TLC. The way it's told by JB/Derick/Jill = Derick contacted JB to be his prayer partner (he was in Nepal already.) And then after a while JB was like "Hmm...Jill would really get along with this guy." So he introduced them over Skype.

That's why I said it may have happened that way. Over the years I watched less and less so its likely I missed something. Plus, imma old lady now, lol. No harm no foul. And here I was thinking that Jill got the hots for Derrick and went after him!

This raises even more of a question regarding Jana. Why hasn't Boob found a mate for her yet? Why is he cockblocking? She is so lovely, it seems strange for her younger sisters to be married off before her, given the fundamentalist nature of their culture. If Jana were my sister I would feel badly for her.

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livinginthelight

I think Jana is far too useful to let go.

Regarding the disgusting dry-humping and "Does it turn you on" comment: It's bothering me that Jessa did NOT blush, cover her face, and scream the fundie equivalent of "OMG - DAD- STOP!" like any normal teenager would. I'm really REALLY starting to wonder what else they've been exposed to when the cameras aren't rolling. And possibly what they've been forced to do. And I'm not talking about Josh.

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halcionne
I have often wondered if "Prayer Partner" also meant money donor to fund Derick's Nepal trip. I could see a local Baptist minister suggesting JB as a possible donor. Now, would JB actually give a few bucks? Maybe, for the tax write off? IDK. I always assumed that JB was a donor for Derick's Nepal trip, and as a donor, was also labeled as a prayer partner.

Right. I've always assumed prayer partner = donor in Christianese.

I once had a friend of a friend ask me to translate a letter their church had received from some local beneficiaries of their international missionary work (or something--this was >20 years ago). I am not and never have been a translator, but my family are the kind of people who assume that because I can speak x language, I should be able to translate or interpret for them whenever they need it. And I'm really bad at it. :lol: So this letter had so many praise-Jesuses and God-willings in it that I had a hard time understanding the point of it all, but finally I was able to discern that they wanted money, so I told my friend's friend as much, but I left out the Jesus talk because who cares about that quit wasting my time. Suffice it to say some people really do care about that! :embarrassed:

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halcionne
I think Jana is far too useful to let go.

Regarding the disgusting dry-humping and "Does it turn you on" comment: It's bothering me that Jessa did NOT blush, cover her face, and scream the fundie equivalent of "OMG - DAD- STOP!" like any normal teenager would. I'm really REALLY starting to wonder what else they've been exposed to when the cameras aren't rolling. And possibly what they've been forced to do. And I'm not talking about Josh.

It demonstrates to me the astounding lack of boundaries, and that kind of shit will permeate every aspect of a household. Ask me how I know. *shudder*

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SassyPants

To make that golf course episode even worse, I think that was the first double date for Ben/Jessa and both of her parents. I know that Michelle (without JB) had lunch with the duo early on, but I think the mini golf was in the beginning of their relationship. I wonder WTH Ben was thinking, beyond getting Jessa in the sack????

Growing up we had a very eccentric neighbor. He would stand at his kitchen window and yell out crass things as a joke to all the teens in the neighborhood. People (like dates) who did not live on the street, just did not get it. I was always thankful when I got back into the house without him seeing me- LOL

I just cannot imagine growing in a purported "modest" household with such an overt parent- AND another parent who was continually PG.

People wonder about Jana. I don't. I think she saw enough overt crap and pregnancies/newborns to last 5 lifetimes.

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Mela99

And I just gotta say, WTF?!? What they aired on the show was already pretty bad and embarrassing. The rest of the take? Holy hell! JB is straight up getting off and talking as dirty as Jesus will allow him to -- IN FRONT OF HIS DAUGHTER AND HER DATE.

Wow. Thought it was bad and nasty before, but now... Me!chelle really must have gotten rid of every thinking part of her brain YEARS ago. They are both so gross -- him for his action, her for allowing it (and we all know that wasn't the first time they horndogged out in front of their kids).

Vile. :ew:

Honestly makes me wonder what they did in front of the kids when cameras weren't around that maybe made Smuggar a little MORE curious ... :disgust:

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BackseatMom

Honestly makes me wonder what they did in front of the kids when cameras weren't around that maybe made Smuggar a little MORE curious ... :disgust:

It is statistically true that children of abuse are more likely to abuse others. Especially without proper treatment.

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grandmadugger
To make that golf course episode even worse, I think that was the first double date for Ben/Jessa and both of her parents. I know that Michelle (without JB) had lunch with the duo early on, but I think the mini golf was in the beginning of their relationship. I wonder WTH Ben was thinking, beyond getting Jessa in the sack????

Growing up we had a very eccentric neighbor. He would stand at his kitchen window and yell out crass things as a joke to all the teens in the neighborhood. People (like dates) who did not live on the street, just did not get it. I was always thankful when I got back into the house without him seeing me- LOL

I just cannot imagine growing in a purported "modest" household with such an overt parent- AND another parent who was continually PG.

People wonder about Jana. I don't. I think she saw enough overt crap and pregnancies/newborns to last 5 lifetimes.

I'd love to know what Ben was thinking. I can't see his parents dry humping in front of their kids. It had to be like live porn for him.

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magicmeyers

And I just gotta say, WTF?!? What they aired on the show was already pretty bad and embarrassing. The rest of the take? Holy hell! JB is straight up getting off and talking as dirty as Jesus will allow him to -- IN FRONT OF HIS DAUGHTER AND HER DATE.

Wow. Thought it was bad and nasty before, but now... Me!chelle really must have gotten rid of every thinking part of her brain YEARS ago. They are both so gross -- him for his action, her for allowing it (and we all know that wasn't the first time they horndogged out in front of their kids).

Vile. :ew:

Oh my god. Gross.

And then they try to stamp out all pre-marital desires in their children and paint the rest of the world as oversexed and immodest. These people.... :cray-cray:

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RosyDaisy

Cathy, JB, and Michelle belonged to the same charity. A picture of them was posted here. So, the parents knew each other well before Jill and Derick started courting.

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St.Clara

That's why I said it may have happened that way. Over the years I watched less and less so its likely I missed something. Plus, imma old lady now, lol. No harm no foul. And here I was thinking that Jill got the hots for Derrick and went after him!

This raises even more of a question regarding Jana. Why hasn't Boob found a mate for her yet? Why is he cockblocking? She is so lovely, it seems strange for her younger sisters to be married off before her, given the fundamentalist nature of their culture. If Jana were my sister I would feel badly for her.

While this is probably not the whole story I do think that there is a strong subconscious antagonism in the Duggar family to the idea of Jana courting. The dichotomy of "good woman/mother"- "bad woman/whore" is still present in our culture and it´s (imho) easy to see that the Duggars have strong issues with it. Josh´s behaviour presents but one example of this. Anna never stood a chance of turning him on, independent of how attractive she may be as a person, because she represents the good woman, the mother, the family-approved bride. It´s the eternal curse of the fundie wives that they are expected to give their husbands all they´d ever sexually want in a woman which (although they´d never admit it) means - in their world of division - that they have to have quite a bit of the "whore"-aspect in them. But on the other hand, they of course have to be godly and pure and maternal. It is nearly impossible to not fail in one way or the other.

JB and Michelle were able to find a pretty well working solution to this really tricky problem, due to the fact that Michelle was not raised fundie. Her "mowing the lawn in a bikini"-past still does a lot towards providing her with a "slutty aura", thereby keeping JB turned on even after so many years of marriage. And the memory is kept alive by incidents like the one on the golf course where JB treats her like a slut - not only in front of her daughter but also in front of the whole tv audience. That´s why I think it is possible (not certain, but possible) that JB has actually succeeded in staying physically faithful to Michelle - which means a lot considering that he is sexually obviously (excuse the expression but I think it fits here perfectly) pretty fucked up. (I say "physically faithful" because I am sure he has had his share of looking at porn and because he has obviously very unclear emotional boundaries as far as some of his elder daughters are concerned.)

All this means that while the "holy mother-whore"-dichotomy is strong in the family, it´s not (and cannot be) Michelle who keeps the "holy mother"-position occupied. In the symbolic order of the family, it´s Jana who has that role and that´s imho why everybody, Jana herself included, subconsciously finds it extremely difficult to imagine her involved in an intimate relationship.

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gustava

While this is probably not the whole story I do think that there is a strong subconscious antagonism in the Duggar family to the idea of Jana courting. The dichotomy of "good woman/mother"- "bad woman/whore" is still present in our culture and it´s (imho) easy to see that the Duggars have strong issues with it. Josh´s behaviour presents but one example of this. Anna never stood a chance of turning him on, independent of how attractive she may be as a person, because she represents the good woman, the mother, the family-approved bride. It´s the eternal curse of the fundie wives that they are expected to give their husbands all they´d ever sexually want in a woman which (although they´d never admit it) means - in their world of division - that they have to have quite a bit of the "whore"-aspect in them. But on the other hand, they of course have to be godly and pure and maternal. It is nearly impossible to not fail in one way or the other.

JB and Michelle were able to find a pretty well working solution to this really tricky problem, due to the fact that Michelle was not raised fundie. Her "mowing the lawn in a bikini"-past still does a lot towards providing her with a "slutty aura", thereby keeping JB turned on even after so many years of marriage. And the memory is kept alive by incidents like the one on the golf course where JB treats her like a slut - not only in front of her daughter but also in front of the whole tv audience. That´s why I think it is possible (not certain, but possible) that JB has actually succeeded in staying physically faithful to Michelle - which means a lot considering that he is sexually obviously (excuse the expression but I think it fits here perfectly) pretty fucked up. (I say "physically faithful" because I am sure he has had his share of looking at porn and because he has obviously very unclear emotional boundaries as far as some of his elder daughters are concerned.)

All this means that while the "holy mother-whore"-dichotomy is strong in the family, it´s not (and cannot be) Michelle who keeps the "holy mother"-position occupied. In the symbolic order of the family, it´s Jana who has that role and that´s imho why everybody, Jana herself included, subconsciously finds it extremely difficult to imagine her involved in an intimate relationship.

Fascinating perspective!

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Thorns

Have you by any chance studied anthropology? That text = EVERYTHING! :clap:

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Oh my god. Gross.

And then they try to stamp out all pre-marital desires in their children and paint the rest of the world as oversexed and immodest. These people.... :cray-cray:

I mentioned this when the episode first aired and I'll say it again now. I wonder if Jessa was turned on by that? I know it's weird but bear with me.

They suppress their sexual thoughts like woah, and I know when I try not to think about something I often end up thinking about it that much more. And she was on the date with Ben so it was probably a lot closer to her mind.

I wonder if while seeing JB act that way it made her think about sex and then stirred up other desires. What a gross and uncomfortable position to be put in.

I'll give one last example so people don't take this the wrong way. I HATE dark chocolate. But when I've been avoiding all sugary substances for an extended period of time even dark chocolate sounds really appealing just cause it reminds me of sugar.

I'm not at all trying to say Jessa is actually attracted to her dad. I'm just painting a horrifying possible thought process for everyone.

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