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MatthewDuggar

Famteam Youtube Vids

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MatthewDuggar

I thought I'd open a thread specifically for the Ardnt's YouTube video programs as I can't find one and I know a few of us have been watching them even though they are a bit old.

 

I thought I watched them all, but I came across the episode where they go to the Zoo and found it very snark-worthy. Some highlights:

 

1. Cathy is quite over-the-top manic in this one. Usually she's pretty sedate in these vids, but she really shines. As they go from exhibit to exhibit she just about squeals with delight when they see/find an animal. She channels J'Chelle frequently, using the outing as a home-skooling opportunity. The shocker is she's wearing black shorts!! They are the customary very short length however.

 

2. The youngest got confused between a giraffe and a zebra (on a previous visit).... At first I thought it was cute and just a minor mistake a kid would make, but of course they played the whole thing again later in the vid and I really think the child seriously had no clue. I'm imaging his only exposure to zoo animals prior to this was a page in his school "manual".

 

3. Rick was pretty much the bumbling idiot throughout the day as usual. Cracking bad jokes and and trying to impart "wisdom" to the brood. We was complimented once for is keen sense of direction navigating the zoo, (Cathy seems a bit map-challenged). At one point she seemed to be over him "Next time we'll leave daddy at home" after one of his corny jokes.

 

4. The youngest was all excited to see a big catfish and the entire episode centered around the search for where it was located. Turns out the fish died the previous year and the boy was pretty much crushed. Cathy tries to console him by pointing out the other big fish, but it doesn't seem to work. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for a big long spiritual speech about life and death, but they all pretty much laughed it off and decided the kid would get over it. Pretty secular and passive way of handling it, I thought.

 

5. The highlight of the trip was seeing the penguins and seeing them be fed. Big surprise.

 

6. Lastly, it seemed like only a fraction of the family was on this outing. I tend to get confused between some of the middle/older JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidts, but it's possible that about 5 of them were doing the filming with 8 different cameras, as usual.

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Dizzy
HerNameIsBuffy

Great thread. I am always struck by how completely irrelevant Rick is to Cathy. The biggest impact he seemed to have on Cathy was calling to ask for cereal during the shopping episode. Honestly outside the baseball stuff he seems to make very little impact on anyone.

Although from the snippets we see he does seem to have been a good dad when they were small - unusually patient. Sometimes too patient, Philip and his red bowling pin would have been separated quick in my house. Poor James.

I don't recall much of the zoo episode except for the zebra/giraffe thing and I thought he was just stuck on a word and they thought it was funny. This morning I had to tell maintenance that the keypad to my office wasn't working and I kept calling it an alarm. Even after I corrected myself and said it was the keypad for my door lock I called it an alarm like 3 more times. All kiddo books have animals and giraffes and zebras are so common I'd be shocked if he didn't know and this wasn't just one of those things where it's cute when kids say the wrong thing.

I will have to rewatch the zoo, but I am always impressed with the camera work so they probably do have several working the video cams.

Do you ever get the feeling Cathy isn't that religious? She's mentioned God a couple of times (and tbf I can't get through the safe at homes without falling asleep so maybe she gets into it there) but she totally strikes me as someone who believes what she was taught but not consumed by it. Maybe religion, like the Vine Valley thing, is Rick's project and she's just happy he has something to do so he stays out of the way. I think the only one of the kids who strikes me as religious is Mark (others have some comments here and there, but not pervasive and even he's not ott). Although this was broadcast on their local TV so maybe they toned it down as to seem more mainstream? Because based on Rick's posts on the website I'd think these people would be the types to thank Jesus for everything from clean laundry to birthdays in bedrooms.

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MatthewDuggar

Yes, Rick is always just sort of "there" and when they do include him in the storyline it's like a completely separate interview, unless it's on one the trips and he's driving. It's almost like Cathy treats him as one of the manboys. In the episode when they go to NC/GA and rent the retreat house, they all have separate bedrooms. The show one of the little boys putting name tags on the doors and everyone had their own room including "Daddy". "Mommy" was with the youngest.

Oh yes, that footage of James with the bowling pin would have never lasted that long with me either. The kids always seem more behaved when Cathy is around for sure.

Cathy certainly does not pontificate like Rick. I've only ever heard her say things like "God bless this or that" or every so often, she'll comment about "God's blessings" in reference to people and places. I honestly can't recall any of the kids saying too much religious-wise. I agree that it's probably their "trick" to only have Dad be the one to spout the "wisdom" on these shows.

I watched an episode this afternoon before a nap called "Just one day". I could have thrown up. It was basically about Cathy and her working with the little kids doing the laundry. Mark goes on and on about how wise she is and that she could walk into any profession and end up "owning the place"... They really worship that lady. The oddest part was at the end. They were planning to watch some relatives two poodles for two weeks while they were away on vacation. James and a few of the younger boys go over to the house to get the dogs. They get home and immediately take the dogs into the basement and put them in a makeshift kennel under the bathroom sink! WTF, that huge house and that's where they stick two scared poodles???

Mark is my least favorite manboy. He's rather conceited and smug Luke is my favorite.

For 35 I think Paul looks a bit rough. Body-wise he's definitely in shape, but he looks rather sickly in the face.

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Dizzy
HerNameIsBuffy

Re watched the zoo and you're right, some were missing. Jude is definitely working one of the cameras but I don't hear Paul, John, Mark, or James.

Penguins were the highlight for me, too. :D my Christmas penguin collection will give them a run for their money.

I noticed that looked like a black miniskirt rather than shorts? I'm really hoping those were culottes or a skort because if that was a skirt there's no way she was getting in and out of vehicles without defrauding everyone.

Between this and the homeschool episode I have to say if Michelle had run her SOTDRT like Cathy the Duggars would be in better shape. It's clearly one sided how it's presented and I'm not buying the "we just tried it for one year because of Paul's birthday cut off and just kept it up because it was so darn fun" for a minute, but at least while isolating them she made sure they learned something and cared enough to track their progress against standardized tests.

That One Day episode skeeved me out, too. Mark is also my least favorite man child. Ita about the smugness but his waxing rhapsodic about his mom has overtones of Christopher from Flowers in the Attic. The adoration is over the top and it won't help his odds with the ladies. No one wants to know they are only picked because he a guy can't marry his mom. He's also the biggest dick to the younger ones. Not only the penguin thing (no excuse) but the ping pong episodes where they are all teasing each other..his doesn't seem 100% playful. Like there is some passive aggressive shit there.

Poodle thing was infuriating - how can her sister let them keep dog sitting? Put them under the sink and see how they like it.

Favorite manchild...toss up between Jude and James. Jude seems so sweet and when he said the thing about taking the clean laundry for granted and sometimes he forgets how hard she works...that's a normal response. James is handy and helpful and I've yet to see him showboat about anything. Seems very low drama. I'll toss John in there - I like quirky and anyone who loves math makes my list. He's a lot smarter than he seems at first glance, but oddly enough he seems like he'd be the most content with the status quo.

As long as I'm making wild suppositions about how strangers feel about their lives Paul seems like he's just resigned to saying "fuck it." I don't think he looks sickly so much as his dishwater blond and pale coloring doesn't tend to photograph well. He seems like there is some annoyance and eye rolling just under the surface a lot of the time.

I do like Luke - he's snarky. Every so often he'll say something that leads me to believe he's been spitting out his kool-aid.

I absolutely think any expectations for marriage or children is that if it happens outsiders will have to be brought into their little commune as no one is leaving. I think the key to the mystery is money.

If they are living on the older boys income then I bet it's guilt and a sense of responsibility to keep the family afloat that keeps them there. Although if I were putting life on hold supporting my parents and siblings the Rick and Cathy spendy private getaways and frivolous Vine Valley would keep me in a constant state of resentment. If they have another source of income (if she's a silent owner of her family business and the yearly dividends are enough to support their lifestyle) then I'm back to confused. And they were living well before her parents passed so who knows?

I mean they have to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on those trips - at least from when they were filming these. They can talk all they want about being frugal and mending dress pants, but you need considerable money to maintain that place and travel the way they did.

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halcionne

You guys are making me want to go watch some Arndt vids. I normally can't tolerate fundy videos, but I remember when these guys were on cable about ten years ago; I was fascinated. I did watch the Outer Banks/penguin-in-the-washing-machine debacle someone posted the other day, and I'm with Buffy--the manboys seem remarkably personable and normal on the face of things, which just add more WTF to this whole situation.

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Dizzy
HerNameIsBuffy
You guys are making me want to go watch some Arndt vids. I normally can't tolerate fundy videos, but I remember when these guys were on cable about ten years ago; I was fascinated. I did watch the Outer Banks/penguin-in-the-washing-machine debacle someone posted the other day, and I'm with Buffy--the manboys seem remarkably personable and normal on the face of things, which just add more WTF to this whole situation.

Come on, Halcionne...just click over to YouTube and watch some man boys play ping pong, and softball...make pizza. Just one harmless, innocent little video never hurt anyone. :wink-kitty:

I swear I'm like someone who just got hooked on heroin and now I want everyone I know to try it so they'll be in it with me. I know people talk about their fundy crack but Arndt's are way too soothing to be crack...definitely human opioids.

You know if they were TLC famous someone would be talking. An old neighbor, someone who went to school with the boys for the 5 minutes the older ones were there, their version of cousin Famy dishing anonymously. (Cathy's parents had over 50 grandchildren, one of them would spill.)

That reminds me of two things I thought were odd when watching the videos. In one (Thanksgiving?) Mark says Cathy is one of ten and many have larger than average families so there are around 50 grandchildren. That's a strange thing to have to approximate since they have contact with the family you'd think he'd know how many first cousins he has.

Also in the treasure hunt episode the older boys (Jacob, Seth,and Nathan?) don't know Rick's middle name. They guess that it's Joseph and are pleased and kind of surprised to find out they're right. Isn't that something kids just know about their parents? Especially since they have eleventy middle names and he only has one...should be easy to remember.

Did they ever explain why they reused names with the boys? I've seen all famteam playlist and the website doesnt have much to it, but from what I've read here they've taken a lot of the more telling stuff down.

Because I'm that bored:

Joseph - used 2x

Paul 3x

Matthew 2x

John 3x

Andrew 2x

Michael 2x

Mark 2x

David 3x

Timothy 2x

Luke 2x

Peter 3x

Phillip 2x

Benjamin 2x

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rural juror

Yay, more Arndt fanatics! I've watched most of their youtube videos and am torn between bored out of my mind and fascinated/unable to look away. Things that I remember standing out to me:

In one of the episodes (either the shopping/pizza making one or the Thanksgiving one) they are talking about one manboy's unsuccessful pizza making attempts, and Paul mentioned that one time the manboy made pizza crust that tasted like wine. That really caught me off guard. I assumed it's because the Arndts are formerly (maybe somewhat still?) Catholic, so perhaps they drank wine during communion. But the fact that he mentioned it so off-handedly surprised me, as it implied that most of the manboys knew what wine tasted like and that do not look back in horror on their Catholic days. On a related note, one of the weddings they photographed recently (some pics were on their facebook page) had the reception at a bar. There was a picture with the couple holding a bottle of whiskey, I believe. I wonder if the manboys partake in some normal activities out of the house that are just not featured on their blog.

James is my favorite, he is handy, seems low-key, and never posted much on their weird website. I remember Rick saying that they sometimes pray in small groups so that the quieter members of the family get to contribute. I get the feeling that James is one of those quiet ones. I wonder how he and Jude feel about their situation, since they are sons #5 and #6, right after the 4 oldest who get their own floor of the house with more room. Do Jude and James ever feel resentment? It's becoming pretty clear the top floor will not be freed up for them.

In the videos, a lot of the discussion seems to be centered around reminiscing about the early days of the family, when some of the kids were little. This is going to be increasingly sad and strange they are old men still living in the house....

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MarblesMom

Arndt is the new crack. I'm falling into their rabbit hole...

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MatthewDuggar

I'm so glad this rabbit hole is still open! :mrgreen:

Regarding Mark, another one I watched (don't know the title, sorry!) was when his Demo/Sample Wedding Album came in the mail and Cathy and a few others gathered around for the "unveiling". You'd have thought it was some priceless antique book. It reminded me of the Devil Wears Prada scene about "The Book", DON'T TOUCH IT! Mark gingerly turns the pages (I'm surprised he didn't put on white gloves) as Cathy coos and fawns over the photos (like she probably had not seen them before - right :roll: ). Then one photo of some random couple kissing brings her to tears. She talks about how much she likes her own wedding album (which they don't show?!?) Never once in this entire exchange is anything said like "I can't wait until you boys have weddings, etc", nothing. Then the creepy continues as Mark starts teasing her by going back to the kissing couple. I was half waiting for him to embrace her and and plant one on her. Mary Elizabeth and another young boy stand off to the side like robots, never saying a word or being addressed.

It's true that these boys seem to "love" their mother a bit too much. Especially Mark. I'll stop right there.

I wonder if the middle-manboys are more quiet and private due to the fact that something happened. I get the impression that perhaps something went on or that things got especially confining and creepy just prior to them moving into the big house. Maybe Rick had a breakdown or there was some other type of scandal. The little ones were maybe too small to remember and the older ones are old enough to hide it and the middle ones are still dealing with it. I know it's vague speculation, sorry, but I just have some sort of gut feeling about it.

I wish Rick would task a few of the manboys into updating the famteam website. It's such a 1990's skeleton. Half the links lead nowhere and the colors and style are hideous. At least the photography business website is up-to-date style-wise.

Lastly (for now), Whenever they are on their trips, I get so sick of the "It's so nice to get away from our incredibly busy crazy lives....".... Doing what?? I know a few of them work, and probably pretty hard, esp. Cathy with the house, but many of the 20 somethings seems to just tinker and fart around helping the older boys or doing things for Vine Valley. Mary Elizabeth is 18 and I would hope done with High school. What is she doing all day? I guess they mean the ping-pong tournaments, pie-in the face pranks and pizza-making. Then there is the summer softball season. I'm sure that's exhausting. :drool:

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Dizzy
HerNameIsBuffy

That was A Few Days in June and Mark does say to her that if she cries looking at a strangers wedding pics what's she going to do because she has 14 kids, and she says she's in trouble. Assuming we can take the purity stuff at face value I think it's just plain cruel when they are looking at the kiss pic and she says its just that moment, it's so special...you know. She actually says "you know?" to her grown son who has never had his first kiss.

She's a real botch for ignoring the elephant in the room the way she does.

Rick is oblivious and I truly believe something is fundamentally wrong with him. I don't think he's functional so I hold him less accountable for the crazy - she's the one knowingly letting this damage continue.

That is a very interesting point about a possible breakdown. Somehow he went from a guy who used to work and support a big family to a guy wandering around acting like some weird hybrid of Howard Hughes, Babe Ruth, and an apostle. When these were being taped he was pretty far gone and he was only in his early 50's which is crazy early to retire so your kids can take care of you. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a major crisis for him which impacted everyone.

Am I remembering correctly that they were in the house about 10 years ad of filming which would have them moving in about 2002? Does anyone know when he was no longer able to work? I wonder if the timelines coincide.

I hate that I'm creepy but it's public info and I looked up Cathy's family business. I have a lot of personal experience with this kind of company at that size and it's possible she's getting a nice supplement with her share of the profits - depending on if they are running it properly and how much they reinvest into the business and their retained earnings structure.

She talks about how close she is to her family, but why aren't the kids learning some otj working for the business. They do in house engineering and that cad/cam stufff would be a good skill to learn - not to mention a ton of other positions to at least learn.

I can't imagine her parents were thrilled with not one of the kids being allowed to learn at the business, on top of the religion thing? Wow. I know my old school Midwestern Catholic families and there is no way her dad took had a to each his own approach about his son in law deciding he was the house pope. Couple that with the lousy work ethic and I don't believe for a second things are as relaxed as she portrays with her side of the family.

I do have a thought, though. Is it possible were just operating on the assumption they are all still at home and still undated because of the videos? They were a while ago and is it possible that in the last 3 years the boys have hooked up and gotten more independent? Just wondering becaus their website is indeed a nightmare so I don't know if there is more to it than. The weird messages to each other, political articles, and the religious stuff.

Would be funny if we were still wondering why they are still alone if several have SOs by now.

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MatthewDuggar

Thank you for providing the episode the Wedding Album was in, I thought it was a different one entirely. I must have missed Mark's comment about having 14 kids and being "in trouble"...

I'l have to spend some time looking at/reading Dad's Diary to see if there are any major gaps or clues to see if there might have been a breakdown. It gets frustrating after a while due to the cryptic writing style. I have to remember that he uses it really as a true "diary" and basically talking to himself in order to preserve his daily life.

What's the nature of Cathy's family business? The one thing I find interesting is how they seem to keep Rick's extended side of the family segregated from Cathy's. Every time they celebrate a holiday, they do separate things at different places. God knows they have room for a 1000 person army on the property.

Good point regarding what might be going on currently. They definitely do not keep the website up-to-date and the manboys rarely post anymore. I wonder if they are still on public access? Maybe Rick mandated that all efforts be focused on Vine Valley....

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MarblesMom
I thought I'd open a thread specifically for the Ardnt's YouTube video programs as I can't find one and I know a few of us have been watching them even though they are a bit old.

I thought I watched them all, but I came across the episode where they go to the Zoo and found it very snark-worthy. Some highlights:

1. Cathy is quite over-the-top manic in this one. Usually she's pretty sedate in these vids, but she really shines. As they go from exhibit to exhibit she just about squeals with delight when they see/find an animal. She channels J'Chelle frequently, using the outing as a home-skooling opportunity. The shocker is she's wearing black shorts!! They are the customary very short length however.

2. The youngest got confused between a giraffe and a zebra (on a previous visit).... At first I thought it was cute and just a minor mistake a kid would make, but of course they played the whole thing again later in the vid and I really think the child seriously had no clue. I'm imaging his only exposure to zoo animals prior to this was a page in his school "manual".

3. Rick was pretty much the bumbling idiot throughout the day as usual. Cracking bad jokes and and trying to impart "wisdom" to the brood. We was complimented once for is keen sense of direction navigating the zoo, (Cathy seems a bit map-challenged). At one point she seemed to be over him "Next time we'll leave daddy at home" after one of his corny jokes.

4. The youngest was all excited to see a big catfish and the entire episode centered around the search for where it was located. Turns out the fish died the previous year and the boy was pretty much crushed. Cathy tries to console him by pointing out the other big fish, but it doesn't seem to work. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for a big long spiritual speech about life and death, but they all pretty much laughed it off and decided the kid would get over it. Pretty secular and passive way of handling it, I thought.

5. The highlight of the trip was seeing the penguins and seeing them be fed. Big surprise.

6. Lastly, it seemed like only a fraction of the family was on this outing. I tend to get confused between some of the middle/older JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidts, but it's possible that about 5 of them were doing the filming with 8 different cameras, as usual.

This made me LAUGH! As I painfully watch the videos, like a train wreck, some thoughts come to mind:

1. Someone is pretty good with the camera.

2. Some of these kids might/appear to (not claiming they do) have some issues other than not moving out...

3. They might be living out a Waltons/Truman Show type fantasy?

4. I need to read and watch more to comment further. But sometimes there just isn't enough wine.

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Dizzy
HerNameIsBuffy
Thank you for providing the episode the Wedding Album was in, I thought it was a different one entirely. I must have missed Mark's comment about having 14 kids and being "in trouble"...

I'l have to spend some time looking at/reading Dad's Diary to see if there are any major gaps or clues to see if there might have been a breakdown. It gets frustrating after a while due to the cryptic writing style. I have to remember that he uses it really as a true "diary" and basically talking to himself in order to preserve his daily life.

What's the nature of Cathy's family business? The one thing I find interesting is how they seem to keep Rick's extended side of the family segregated from Cathy's. Every time they celebrate a holiday, they do separate things at different places. God knows they have room for a 1000 person army on the property

Third time I'm trying to post this...keep trying to out type w dying battery and I not winning.

Tool and die/machining. I'm in the same type of industry, different niche, so when Google said its in the 10-20 mil revenue ballpark I checked the site and with their size and scope it rings true.

Although all I learned about them on the about us page is that none of them can write.

I'm way too familiar with exactly this kind of family business and if it's the case where none of them have worked there that's really unusual. Even if kids aren't going to make it a career it's typical to take the opportunity to let them cut their teeth and gain some valuable skills.

I didn't pay attention to who all went to their outdoor parties like Memorial Day - if the sides are done separately that's really weird. But I'll give them a total pass for Thanksgiving. I can't even imagine the logistical nightmare of a sit down holiday meal for Cathy's side alone...even a few extra people would have me on a ledge. Besides, for the holiday stuff that may be for the benefit of both sides. My brother's former wife was one of double digit kids (not fundy, old school Catholic) and on the rare occasions we all got together it was overwhelming. Like our much smaller (and much quieter) family got swallowed up in their chaos. They were very nice people, but there was a lot of them and they were all noisy.

Besides other people's holiday traditions and food are usually weird and gross so keeping it segmented makes sense. :D

I really want to make a project of going through the safe at home vids to see if Rick broke away because of doctrinal differences with the RCC or if the only goal was isolation and calling his own shots. Because while he's OTT for most Catholics I know with the thumping I haven't heard anything close to an ah ha moment where what he was saying was incompatible.

I have no interest in them or anyone remaining Catholic, it's just one of the many mysteries I ponder with these guys.

Can we talk about the Christmas Trial episode? One of my favorites and I totally want to play that game. A game that deliberately calls upon the younger ones to use their critical thinking skills. Ironic that they invent a game based around weighing all the fact and the credibility of the storyteller to try to determine the truth rather than blindly accept what they are being told. If only they'd apply that to real life.

When Philip said if the story were true he'd have gotten an Oreo milkshake it cracked me up. i think all of life's lessons can be boiled down to potato wedges vs milkshakes.

Last observation about that epi is Cathy being so proud that they took cast off parts from several discarded old trees to Frankenstein two nice Christmas trees. That's exactly the kind of thing my mom would have done and been just as proud of it..,and Iit would have been a total PITA to put together. It did remind me that we need a second tree this year.

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MarblesMom

I want to know HOW the parents met and what their current relationships are now with THEIR parents and siblings.

I want to know what Papa Famteam did for an outside life before he went all weird.

And I want to have a cup of coffee with random adult kids to ask some deep questions.

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Dizzy
HerNameIsBuffy
I want to know HOW the parents met and what their current relationships are now with THEIR parents and siblings.

I want to know what Papa Famteam did for an outside life before he went all weird.

And I want to have a cup of coffee with random adult kids to ask some deep questions.

I hate that I know this, but Rick and Cathy met at a Catholic youth group when she was 15 and he was 19 (I'm not solid on his age). At some point he went on a trip (even then... :lol: ) and told his buddies he was with that he thought he left his heart back at and when he got back they went for a walk and he looked at her and she knew.

And per Cathy she did know and was glad he finally figured it out. They got married when she was 19.

And the night before the wedding she had a dream they had 5 boys. And he envisioned a little girl surrounded by brothers and so asked God to make the first couple of kids boys, if he was cool with that. He neglected to specify what he meant by a few I do that too, so I should shut up now! :D

Cathy's parents died 39 days apart during one of the summers they were filming. I think they mention it in the Thanksgiving episode that it's their first without her parents. She talked about how losing them makes her treasure her brothers and sisters all the more, because they have each other to share their memories. Cathy doesn't move me often, but I get that. I was in my mid 20's when we lost our mom and dad within the span of 4 months - it does change your relationship with your siblings. You become acutely aware of how when it comes to your childhood and history you only have each other.

Dorothy on the Golden Girls said it best, "I don't care how old you are, when you lose your parents your an orphan."

I don't know how real her connection is and tbh if she were my sister and kept my pups under the sink while dog sitting no amount of childhood memories would keep her off my shit list...but she gives lip service to being a close family. Rick's brother has a team they play against them in softball so that's contact. Paul did briefly wish the piano they were moving would fall off the crane onto his Arndt grandparents house, but he was probably kidding.

And this is probably nothing but my own reading into things that aren't there, but when Mark was talking about losing their grandparents he did say he was glad they spent extra time together before they died, etc. but he said "my mom lost both of her parents this summer." I thought it was odd phrasing. Again, it was probably deliberate so the viewer wouldn't wonder which grandparents had died if he just said grandma and grandpa - but the phrasing felt detached. I'm sensitive to that since my youngest used to refer to my parents as "your mom and dad" because they died before he was born, but they're still grandma and grandpa so it bothered me.

Papa fanteam worked as a court reporter and before that worked for his father in law in the family business, and of course there was softball!

It's funny how so many people have posted over the years about Jim-Bob still being in awe of getting the cheerleader. I dot really get that (they are both batshit and Michelle wasn't/isn't unattractive but he was easily the much better looking one out of the two of them when they were young) but I totally see that with Rick and Cathy. Matthew posted a while back (not sure if this thread or another) about how Rick mentions how they met and talks about their early relationship all the time...I do think he's still completely smitten with her. And she was stunning when she was younger (still looks great now, as much as I take issue with her parenting choices she's aged very well if she would just lose the frosted lipgloss and ffs do something else, anything else, with her hair) but I think Rick is still befuddled by how he got the girl.

All the more unconscionable that he's denying his boys the chance to find the same kind of happiness.

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MatthewDuggar

Thanks for the details on Cathy's family business. I would think that would be perfect for James since he's the handyman. I'm assuming that with so many siblings Cathy's got a minority share/input and perhaps those that truly "run" the business now lead too much of a secular/normal life that she doesn't want the manboys exposed to everyday.

I agree about how massive and chaotic it would be to have both sides of the family over for large holidays. I just would think that it would make for a good story line. They probably tried it, but couldn't pull it off.

I must re-watch the Christmas Trial episode again. I think I tuned out or fell asleep and missed most of the "trial game" part. The only disappointment in that episode was how Mark tried to convince and ask Cathy's permission to put up outdoor Christmas lights. She never really said yes or no and then we never heard about it again. I know they basically crafted the trees from parts, but it really isn't a huge accomplishment to put up an artificial tree. They all acted as if it was some sort of massive chore and that they needed to develop these special techniques to get the job done. Considering they live next to a massive woods, why don't they have real trees? It would have been more interesting seeing them searching for the perfect trees, chopping them down, hauling them, etc.

The only similarity I see between Rick and JB is that I truly believe that once he realized how much of a fertile myrtle Cathy was, he purposely tried for as many as she could pop-out in order to gain some sort of notoriety. I wonder if the possible panic or breakdown was the sudden lucid realization that he had way too many mouths to feed and that his massive brood was not organically bringing in the cash.

I am very impressed with the "Summer days" episode where it's too hot for the kids to play outside, so Cathy has them knitting and doing other female crafts. You'd never see this on the Duggars or Bates shows. Of course, however, Rick is interviewed out on the porch candidly and says he has no problem with it and is not concerned that it will effect the boy's masculinity. He's not involved or even shown with the kids when they are doing it. (but that's pretty common in general) They also had to point out that the boys had a plan to sell the scarves and hats on eBay, which of course adds a bit of a masculine edge. I guess they never heard of Etsy. 8-)

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MatthewDuggar

Oh, regarding Cathy's hair... I also wish she's do something different with it beside the french braid. She must dye it, but it appears to be pretty thick and healthy. Sometimes it looks a bit bizarre in the front with the part. It's sort of poofy underneath, unless it's just extremely thick.

I have no idea why but I kind of like the frosted lip gloss, esp when she's smeared it on thick. She just would not be Cathy without it.

If she was given an up to date make-over she's be truly stunning.

Semi-related, what's up with the shorts and suspenders on all the boys when they were young?? I am a tad older than them, but I don't ever remember suspenders being fashionable. Perhaps it had to do with ill-fitting hand-me-downs. When playing in a group they look like a bunch of kid-show try-out rejects still in costume.

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Dizzy
HerNameIsBuffy
Oh, regarding Cathy's hair... I also wish she's do something different with it beside the french braid. She must dye it, but it appears to be pretty thick and healthy. Sometimes it looks a bit bizarre in the front with the part. It's sort of poofy underneath, unless it's just extremely thick.

I have no idea why but I kind of like the frosted lip gloss, esp when she's smeared it on thick. She just would not be Cathy without it.

If she was given an up to date make-over she's be truly stunning.

Semi-related, what's up with the shorts and suspenders on all the boys when they were young?? I am a tad older than them, but I don't ever remember suspenders being fashionable. Perhaps it had to do with ill-fitting hand-me-downs. When playing in a group they look like a bunch of kid-show try-out rejects still in costume.

I think she just has enviably thick hair, which is why it's such a shame she doesn't show it off more.

I totally don't get the suspenders, either! My kids are between Philip and Seth, Seth and Jacob, and Nathan and Wizzie and the only time I ever had suspenders for the boys were dressing up for Easter/ or the rare fancypants occasion. I hated any type of jumper outfit when they were in diapers unless the crotches had snaps and when they are learning to use the bathroom the last thing I'd ever do would be to put them in one more thing to navigate before they made it to the toilet. Philip's little jumper (of the red bowling ball clip fame) looked like something from 1925, but James was at the age kids can get weird about what they want to wear so it's possible it was his thing. One of mine went through a phase where he wore this white clip on tie with evvverryyything. Cookie monster pjs? White clip on tie. Purple dinosaur shorts and a t-shirt? White clip on tie. Naked getting out of the tub? Screaming because I wasn't getting his tie back on fast enough!

Same one who went through a phase where he hated underwear. Started maybe about kindergarten (and lasted forever) every time I turned around he had taken them off and hidden them somewhere...I guess he thought if we ran out I'd stop insisting? I'd find them stuffed between couch cushions, kitchen cabinet, desk drawer, my purse. One year he was so happy on the last day of school because "I don't have to wear underwear until next year." Says who? Apparently he had his own rules and that whole summer lived in a rotation of 3 pair of swim trunks - no underwear with bathing suits. ...kids are adorable little weirdos sometimes. :lol:

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Dizzy
HerNameIsBuffy
Thanks for the details on Cathy's family business. I would think that would be perfect for James since he's the handyman. I'm assuming that with so many siblings Cathy's got a minority share/input and perhaps those that truly "run" the business now lead too much of a secular/normal life that she doesn't want the manboys exposed to everyday.

I agree about how massive and chaotic it would be to have both sides of the family over for large holidays. I just would think that it would make for a good story line. They probably tried it, but couldn't pull it off.

I must re-watch the Christmas Trial episode again. I think I tuned out or fell asleep and missed most of the "trial game" part. The only disappointment in that episode was how Mark tried to convince and ask Cathy's permission to put up outdoor Christmas lights. She never really said yes or no and then we never heard about it again. I know they basically crafted the trees from parts, but it really isn't a huge accomplishment to put up an artificial tree. They all acted as if it was some sort of massive chore and that they needed to develop these special techniques to get the job done. Considering they live next to a massive woods, why don't they have real trees? It would have been more interesting seeing them searching for the perfect trees, chopping them down, hauling them, etc.

The only similarity I see between Rick and JB is that I truly believe that once he realized how much of a fertile myrtle Cathy was, he purposely tried for as many as she could pop-out in order to gain some sort of notoriety. I wonder if the possible panic or breakdown was the sudden lucid realization that he had way too many mouths to feed and that his massive brood was not organically bringing in the cash.

I am very impressed with the "Summer days" episode where it's too hot for the kids to play outside, so Cathy has them knitting and doing other female crafts. You'd never see this on the Duggars or Bates shows. Of course, however, Rick is interviewed out on the porch candidly and says he has no problem with it and is not concerned that it will effect the boy's masculinity. He's not involved or even shown with the kids when they are doing it. (but that's pretty common in general) They also had to point out that the boys had a plan to sell the scarves and hats on eBay, which of course adds a bit of a masculine edge. I guess they never heard of Etsy. 8-)

I thought about James as well, given how mechanically inclined he is. But everyone really - there is IT, and HR type stuff, clerical, CAD/CAM engineering can absolutely be learned otj with the right aptitude. It's a nice way to get kids used to working in an office (if they are held accountable as other employees would be) and pick up some skill. Also an appreciation for how hard people work for the money the business generates. If done well it's a great opportunity that most people don't have. And as an aside that kind of engineering is one of the few places I know of where you can make decent money without a college degree these days. College can get your foot in the door, but most of the people I know in that position are making good money with no college or an associates (most of the hires with college are because we do job fairs at the local CCs to recruit people in their CAD Eng program.) A couple years in they can make 50-55k and with more experience up to high 5 and low 6 figures.

But you never know with family. Personally, I love my family but I'd never work with them long term as a career. Some weirdness may not be Arndt weirdness and may just be valid reasons to not want to get that enmeshed. Trouble is when all the weirdness piles up it's impossible to parse out because as we've said before, no one thing is that off..it's the cumulative effect.

I liked the craft thing, too. As with the cheesecakes I like that they aren't stuffed into rigid gender roles ...just like when (forgot the episode) where Cathy was going on about how proud she is of Wizzie because she plays sports with her brothers and how fast she is, but it doesn't take away from her being all girl. I like that they don't act like touching a dishrag will cause their Y chromosomes to fall out and scatter across the tile.

Agree to disagree on the Christmas tree thing. I know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but I hate putting those together even when all the branches are labeled properly. Having to cobble them together from different sets would be my idea of hell. Hopefully they took the ol' label maker and marked them the first time, otherwise it would be a frustrating and prickly puzzle every year. And live trees are such a mess (and I hate the smell personally) I can't imagine Cathy would sleep nights knowing all those needles were silently falling onto the floor!

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GodsKnickers

That's a horrible rabbit hole! Holy corncobs, that family. :? It's a good thing they don't have a show. My TV would be in smithereens. :lol: Those voices. Hers especially. Yikes. Like nails on a chalkboard.

I just watched the one where they go up to some cabin/house on the lake. The one guy in the canoe (sorry, I've never seen this bumch before) - he kept saying 'go over thataway' and 'we named it the Bay of Disappointment' - I need to look at the other posts to find out who he is and what his deal is. He reminds me of Dustin Hoffman's character in Rainman. :oops:

I might have to curse at you all for this rabbit hole. Jeebus criminy. :pink-shock:

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Aggravated
keen23

We have one of those trees that's basically an umbrella. It comes in three sections that go together, and the branches are all hinged, but attached to the trunk. Flip the section upside down, and the branches fall in. Takes about 5 minutes to set up.

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MatthewDuggar

When I have nothing better to do, I have been reading Dad's Diary a bit more slowly and carefully starting as far back as it goes (15 years). I can usually only handle about 20 minutes of it at a time.

Regarding Wizzy, back when she was exiting the toddler years, they certainly did grasp onto the gender stereotypes quite a bit. Rick mentions many times that she always wears a dress, even to the YMCA center. He states that it's due to Cathy finally having a girl and enjoying that so much. But then, a month later, he talks about how Wizzy again always wears dresses and everything she owns is pink. He goes on a short diatribe about how this is natural and organic and that males and female instinctively gravitate to these gender specific colors and clothing. He explains that this is true because she has all these brothers and they have zero impact on her femininity. Gee, maybe it's because that's all she's offered because she's 4 years old and a huge novelty to the family???

Usually Rick's pretty consistent, but when he contradicts himself he really does a good job.

Another thing is that at that time he was actually working along with the 4 older boys (only one of which actually was certified to do court reporting) and consistently talks about how unpredictable the work is and how they are scraping by. Then he says they will need to hire at least two or more outside court reporters due to all the work (one of which he hopes is Paul who is training). While soliciting for business they only send out marketing flyers to attorneys in states that are the most conservative. I'd love to have seen the list just to see how much they were limiting themselves. As if it's not possible to have conservative attorneys in more liberal states... He also made is extremely clear that Cathy's place is in the home and he absolutely does not want her taking an "outside job" to support the family. I think I'm just getting to the part where she fills in as office manager for a few years.

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Letgo

But then, a month later, he talks about how Wizzy again always wears dresses and everything she owns is pink. He goes on a short diatribe about how this is natural and organic and that males and female instinctively gravitate to these gender specific colors and clothing. He explains that this is true because she has all these brothers and they have zero impact on her femininity. Gee, maybe it's because that's all she's offered because she's 4 years old and a huge novelty to the family??

This is one of my pet peeves, saying that girls are just instinctively feminine and automatically choose girly things. My kids are both sexes and close in age. They played together, all doing the same activity, whether it was dolls, trucks, climbing, digging in the sandbox, and so on, by their own choice. They played together regardless of what they did, and no one cared if it went against a supposed gender norm. I guess some kids naturally gravitate toward being really girly or boyish, but if given the choice of "boy" and "girl" toys, I think both sexes play with both kinds, especially at age 4. I would bet that Whizzy was highly encouraged to play with girl things. I can't really blame the family for that, after so many boys. But if Whizzy had been free to choose, I'd bet her brothers would have had an impact on her "femininity." My girls kept up with the boys and loved their toys, but they weren't kept in pink dresses.

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JenniferJuniper

James is my favorite, he is handy, seems low-key, and never posted much on their weird website. I remember Rick saying that they sometimes pray in small groups so that the quieter members of the family get to contribute. I get the feeling that James is one of those quiet ones. I wonder how he and Jude feel about their situation, since they are sons #5 and #6, right after the 4 oldest who get their own floor of the house with more room. Do Jude and James ever feel resentment? It's becoming pretty clear the top floor will not be freed up for them.

James is my favorite too, in part because he's more mysterious than the other adult sons. And what woman doesn't love a man who can build or fix anything? Mommy says, "James, I'd like a corner cabinet for the dining room by Wednesday" and James delivers.

I'd like to imagine that he quietly sneaks out for a few beers every now again to meet with non-fundie male and female friends and someday just breaks away for good. He has mad skills and would have no problem surviving without the clan.

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MatthewDuggar

I'm surprised that the other manboys are not as handy as James. Some of them seem almost frightened to touch a tool and they just leave it to James.

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