The Epic List of Things JWs aren't supposed to do

[louisa05]

I was subbing in elementary music on Halloween one year and had a JW girl in a third grade class. Several of the activities the teacher had left for the day were Halloween related and the plans said that the JW girl could color in her office during those. One was a rhythm activity using the song "Monster Mash" and the teacher noted that they had used that song for the activity before and the JW girl participated so she should be able to do that one. So I told the girl she could do that one with us and she refused. I said that Mrs. Regular Teacher had noted she had done it the week before and she answered "but that wasn't on the holiday so it was okay". And then, in a moment I had to keep myself from laughing at, a little boy in the class said "well, that doesn't even make sense".

Of course, being a good teacher who is respectful of all beliefs in the classroom, I told him that it was not polite to express those thoughts about his classmate's belief system. (But I agree with him).

[FoxyMoxie]

The teacher legally couldn't give him a any shit for it. A Supreme Court case, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, ruled that JWs (or anyone else) can't be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance (I didn't say it, but for other reasons). One thing I will give the JWs is that they've taken the brunt of a lot of free speech cases that needed to be addressed.

Hence their persecution under the Nazis.

[DaisyD]

The teacher legally couldn't give him a any shit for it. A Supreme Court case, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, ruled that JWs (or anyone else) can't be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance (I didn't say it, but for other reasons). One thing I will give the JWs is that they've taken the brunt of a lot of free speech cases that needed to be addressed.

I know they can't force you. I knew it in junior high school when I abstained from saying the pledge on December 7th (not realizing the date's significance at the time) and caught all sorts of shit from the teacher. I object to the reference to God in a public school activity. The oath I took when I joined the military didn't mention God, why on earth should the pledge?

My son was the one exercising his freedom of speech so that the kid exercising his freedom of religion wouldn't be alone in the hall. I am extremely proud of his willingness to go against the crowd when he doesn't agree with the crowd, and his capacity for friendship that's way ahead of his peers in most cases.

[Coldwinterskies]

My husband works for a JW. They were at our wedding, and even drank. He (the JW guy) says that they're allowed to drink, but not to excess. He's also told my husband, when hubs asked if his kids missed Christmas (they haven't always been JW), that no, they get gifts all year long. I've never met any hard core ones, but as far as this guy and his family, they seem relatively normal. And the company does shut down for Christmas Eve/Christmas, and the other major holidays.

Yes, it is true that JWs are allowed to drink alcohol. In theory JWs are not supposed to drink to "excess" but anecdotally it seems like a lot of them do drink heavily since this is one of the few vices they are allowed. I don't know if there are any stats, but anecdotally a lot of ex-JWs think that alcoholism is a big problem in the religion because of this and how they are forced to suppress themselves in so many other ways. For example, getting caught as a JW smoking marijuana or even tobacco would put you at risk for shunning.

[Jana814]

Of course, being a good teacher who is respectful of all beliefs in the classroom, I told him that it was not polite to express those thoughts about his classmate's belief system. (But I agree with him).

Glad u said that to the student. But also glad u agreed w/ him! I probably would have done the same thing.

[Coldwinterskies]

Hence their persecution under the Nazis.

Another aspect of the WW II persecution is that Rutherford (the douchebag leader who brought a lot of the crazy stuff into the JW religion after the death of the original founder of the JW religion, Russell) originally tried to appease Hitler by sending him a letter saying that the JW religion was on board with the Nazis' anti-Semitic stance. The letter didn't work, so Rutherford then started to antagonize Hitler. I would not be surprised if Rutherford's reckless behavior was a factor in why JWs ended up getting persecuted, though you certainly won't see JWs talk about how Rutherford tried to build an alliance with Hitler.

More details here if anyone is curious:

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/hitler-nazi.php

(JWFacts is considered "apostate" by JWs so most JWs would freak out if you tried to show them any info from it, but I feel it is the most thorough and reputable website when it comes to researching the JWs - and no I am not in any way affiliated with it, I just think the information they have there is worthwhile for people to know)

[JeanieCat]

I've heard that many JW families now have an annual "Family Gift Day" so the kids don't feel deprived by not celebrating Christmas/birthdays.(Although said kids are supposedly taught to say "No, I don't feel deprived, I get gifts all year long!")

They can celebrate wedding anniversaries. Can't remember the reason why. So, this is a legitimate gift- giving time! (Edited to add it is because " there are no pagan origins associated with marriage"! So there!)

[Seven Severn]

At the :38 mark it lists wind chimes as forbidden. Why? Does anyone have any insight? It seems so random.

[FoxyMoxie]

Not any more, but wind chimes did used to be associated with New Age stuff...I feel like they may have some kind of animist background? For some reason I associate wind chimes with Asian animism but I'm probably wrong!

Coldwinterskies, thank you! Super interesting. What were the differences between the pre-Rutherford and post-Rutherford JWs? I'm fascinated by the various Millerite groups - over here they are mostly of Caribbean origin especially JWs and SDAs, though not so much Christian Scientists (not that you see many of those nowadays) and Christadelphians. Love studying small sects.

[Exjw2015deed]

The JW's do have some unique views, but I'm not sure the list is accurate - at least not for all. In my high school, one of the most popular girls (and nicest) was a Witness and was also a cheerleader and wore the same type of clothes and makeup everyone else did. She participated in the theater program, too.

There must be a JW-lite. Either that or she was being hugely rebellious, though she seemed secure enough within herself to not feel the need to be super-rebellious. ... come to think of it, it was said that her *mom* was a JW. Maybe her dad was not and overrode the mom... but I digress.

Before I begin, I must state this is my first time posting, but I've been lurking on FJ forever. I grew up as a Jehovah witness so I have a lot of background knowledge. My grandparents converted when they' we're about 19 and raised my father, who in turn attempted to raise myself and my siblings as dubs as well. Because my mother only converted to marry my father she didn't really follow much of the strict doctrine inside the home.

In response to your question yes and no.

Yes there are extreme dubs. The determining factor of how you behave is depending on your parents position in the organization. For instance if your father is an elder or the circuit overseer you will be strict. You're not encourage to have friends or spend much time with family outside of the organization. You would be expected to also marry your fellow dub. These strict ones also do "court" but it's not as strict as the fundies do. They will also be expected to devote most of your time to the organization. Probably be a pioneer and do a lot of field service.

These people are under a microscope. While my grandfather was never a circuit overseer he was an elder and my grandma a pioneer. My aunt and uncles were scrutinized almost to the point where it was border line stalking. (A brother one time peeped through the window of my uncles apartment to see if he had a girl there.) thankfully my mother left after she felt pressured and she was smart enough to not let any of her children to get baptized.

And the second part no. To my knowledge if you're not baptized there's less control of how the congregation dictates your life. You're off the radar as long as you don't take a dip in the water. Also each congregation varies. I've visited probably a dozen. Our first one was really conservative with mostly an older group. They were a lot more strict. But as we moved to a more urban group, there they were more relaxed. Many social gathering that had alcohol, dancing, and all around normal. But nonetheless they all believe the same thing.

Sorry to give such a long answer but I'm second generation so I have hundreds of stories.

[smittykins]

Anyone who is curious about what JW meetings are like might enjoy this frighteningly accurate portrayal :)

(again this is a Dub parody account so no need to break the link)

I briefly studied with the JWs(long story)and attended several meetings including a Memorial, and they were Just. Like. That.

[Jaamillion]

My ex is a JW (he didn't become one until a few years after we split) and he takes our son to the hall which didn't bother me until I found out that he was telling our son to basically try and covert the other kids in his class at lunchtime (he was 8/9 at the time and the other kids were practicing Catholics) and my son made a comment to me about JWs hate Catholics.

At that point I had a conversation with my son about different religions being different paths to God and you had to accept and respect a persons path even if you didn't agree. Also, he was too young to choose to be a JW and had to wait until he was at least 18 to make the decision.

I also had a conversation with his dad about the comment that our son made and his response was that that sentiment is not what's taught at the hall. I did point out to him that our kid had to have heard that from someone at the hall even if that wasn't the official stance and if hate is what our son was being taught then my ex couldn't take our son to the hall. Oh boy did that get reaction.

My ex has really put me through it with this religion :pull-hair: :pull-hair: :pull-hair:

[nausicaa]

I know they can't force you. I knew it in junior high school when I abstained from saying the pledge on December 7th (not realizing the date's significance at the time) and caught all sorts of shit from the teacher. I object to the reference to God in a public school activity. The oath I took when I joined the military didn't mention God, why on earth should the pledge?

My son was the one exercising his freedom of speech so that the kid exercising his freedom of religion wouldn't be alone in the hall. I am extremely proud of his willingness to go against the crowd when he doesn't agree with the crowd, and his capacity for friendship that's way ahead of his peers in most cases.

That's the same reason I don't say the pledge.

I misread your original comment, and thought you were just saying that your son had a JW kid in his class and the JW kid went outside, and bless the teacher for not giving him any shit for that. That is really cool of your son!

[SilverBeach]

I briefly studied with the JWs(long story)and attended several meetings including a Memorial, and they were Just. Like. That.

ITA

[SilverBeach]

For the real truth about the Watchtower org, read "Crisis of Conscience" by Raymond Franz. He served on the Governing Body, one of the men who set policy and directed members lives. His book is an eye opener. He thought that given the impact on peoples lives, decisions would be made prayerfully after much consultation with the bible. Not so. Meetings of the governing body were much like those of any corporate board, with Watchtower publications being used for reference, not the bible. After fifty years of faithful service he was disfellowshipped because his conscience would not let him continue to see the members hurt by the governing body's lack of consistency and compassion. Excellent book for those interested in the inner workings of the Watchtower organization.

[Deist woman]

I think, at my school, that we wanted to do some Harry Potter themed event for the whole school (we had a House system like they do at Hogwarts, and every year the final years put on a themed inter-house event for the school) and we weren't allowed because there were some JWs at the school.

Some JW beliefs are just wacko. No blood transfusions even if you're in life-threatening danger, shunning, and no celebrations. Damn their lives must be miserable. We snark on the Duggars, Bateses and so on, but at least they do birthdays, Easter, Christmas and so on. Also they have that belief that only 144,000 people will actually go to Heaven. From Wikipedia:

Revelation 14:1-5....

Ummmm..........can someone explain to me about the 144,000 being VIRGINS?? Doesn't that disqualify any of the married JWs from being part of the elect group? I am really scratching my head over that. How can anyone choose to follow a religion if it disqualifies them from having any hope of participating in the rewards of the afterlife?

[lawlifelgbt]

Saying the pledge never sat right with me from when I was about 14 on; I was a Christian but my best friend was Muslim, and my brother's best friend was an athiest. I mean, it didn't strike me as respectful to their beliefs or lack thereof. But, I did it because I was already an outcast, and I couldn't draw more attention to myself. Also, my mom taught at my high school, so I was not allowed to get into any trouble ever and I was afraid of angering one of the teachers- that I had a constitutional right to refuse would have meant nothing to my mom, she would just see me upsetting the teacher. (If she came by the cafeteria and saw that I had bought extra food besides the usual lunch, she would also be similarly controlling and make me throw it away, even if I'd bought it with my money, but that's another thing altogether).

So I would usually passively rebel by mouthing the words or just whispering the speech Calvin of Calvin & Hobbes did when he was asked to say the pledge, "I pledge allegiance, to Queen Fragg..."

Then when I was in college, the student senate I reported on as a junior and senior did the pledge before weekly meetings. A few weeks into the assignment, I came out, and so I started thinking how I had no federal protections, DOMA was still up at the time, as well as DADA, and I couldn't marry except for in MA, IA, CA sometimes, etc. I lived in Wisconsin at the time. That led to thinking about "justice for all". Decided until I could marry nationally, I would never stand for the pledge again; if I was being discriminated against, there was no "justice for all."

Since Obergefell, I have not been in a situation where one says the pledge. But I probably still wouldn't, because as a law student I've learned a ton about the flaws in our public defender system and issues of access to good lawyers and the courts overall. Still no real justice, if it's so unequal!

[Jaamillion]

Ummmm..........can someone explain to me about the 144,000 being VIRGINS?? Doesn't that disqualify any of the married JWs from being part of the elect group? I am really scratching my head over that. How can anyone choose to follow a religion if it disqualifies them from having any hope of participating in the rewards of the afterlife?

I had almost the same question...my question was how is the 144k decided? The way it was explained to me was the 144k that gain entrance to heaven have already been decided and the JW's now are being saved for heaven on earth.

[louisa05]

Saying the pledge never sat right with me from when I was about 14 on; I was a Christian but my best friend was Muslim, and my brother's best friend was an athiest. I mean, it didn't strike me as respectful to their beliefs or lack thereof. But, I did it because I was already an outcast, and I couldn't draw more attention to myself. Also, my mom taught at my high school, so I was not allowed to get into any trouble ever and I was afraid of angering one of the teachers- that I had a constitutional right to refuse would have meant nothing to my mom, she would just see me upsetting the teacher. (If she came by the cafeteria and saw that I had bought extra food besides the usual lunch, she would also be similarly controlling and make me throw it away, even if I'd bought it with my money, but that's another thing altogether).

So I would usually passively rebel by mouthing the words or just whispering the speech Calvin of Calvin & Hobbes did when he was asked to say the pledge, "I pledge allegiance, to Queen Fragg..."

Then when I was in college, the student senate I reported on as a junior and senior did the pledge before weekly meetings. A few weeks into the assignment, I came out, and so I started thinking how I had no federal protections, DOMA was still up at the time, as well as DADA, and I couldn't marry except for in MA, IA, CA sometimes, etc. I lived in Wisconsin at the time. That led to thinking about "justice for all". Decided until I could marry nationally, I would never stand for the pledge again; if I was being discriminated against, there was no "justice for all."

Since Obergefell, I have not been in a situation where one says the pledge. But I probably still wouldn't, because as a law student I've learned a ton about the flaws in our public defender system and issues of access to good lawyers and the courts overall. Still no real justice, if it's so unequal!

I spent a bit too much of my history grad school time focusing on the rise of nationalism in the 19th Century which brought us all the flag adoration, pledges, anthems, national holidays and generally sappy patriotism. I can't see most of it, now, as anything other than emotional manipulation and indoctrination to allow governments to pursue nationalistic policies often at the expense of other peoples and nations. So I have some misgivings about making kids mindlessly recite the pledge every day (and if you think they don't do it mindlessly, you haven't been in a classroom above about 2nd grade and watched that ritual lately). When I have to do it while subbing, I typically just mouth the words.

[nastyhobbitses]

I spent a bit too much of my history grad school time focusing on the rise of nationalism in the 19th Century which brought us all the flag adoration, pledges, anthems, national holidays and generally sappy patriotism. I can't see most of it, now, as anything other than emotional manipulation and indoctrination to allow governments to pursue nationalistic policies often at the expense of other peoples and nations. So I have some misgivings about making kids mindlessly recite the pledge every day (and if you think they don't do it mindlessly, you haven't been in a classroom above about 2nd grade and watched that ritual lately). When I have to do it while subbing, I typically just mouth the words.

I've traveled a lot, and I think it's pretty interesting how a lot of people from different countries (especially in Europe) find American nationalism and patriotism creepy. In a lot of places, it's OK to wave the national flag around at national holidays or during big sporting events, but all the time is weird, and saluting the flag every day is even weirder. The only people who do that are usually really, really racist/xenophobic.

Actually, the only country I've visited that probably has a comparable level of jingoistic patriotism is China (and most young Chinese people I talked to/was friends with are kinda meh about it). And even then, at the school where I worked, they only did a flag-raising/salute ceremony on Mondays (during which my co-workers would be texting and half-heartedly mumbling the words to the national anthem).

[DaisyD]

We had a German foreign exchange student when I was in high school. She was utterly horrified when the whole school said the pledge all together on the first day. I suppose Germans might tend to be rather sensitive to that sort of thing, given their national history, but it was when I first really thought about what was going on beyond my separation of church and state objections.

[rezski44]

Michael Jackson was raised JW but I am assuming he fell away from it later. I recall he even did the door to door thing when younger. Not sure of his family's current status with the religion. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Maggie Mae]

I didn't have to say the pledge in school. US. Midwest. My school was more interested in cramming another minute of education in the day or something. For a Catholic School, we didn't pray very often either.

I was really weirded out by it when I moved to Alaska and they say it ALL THE TIME. I had honestly thought it wasn't "a thing" anymore. It's still weird. All these meetings and presentations, most of them start with a pledge. I stand (because business world) but don't say anything.

[smittykins]

Michael Jackson was raised JW but I am assuming he fell away from it later. I recall he even did the door to door thing when younger. Not sure of his family's current status with the religion. Correct me if I am wrong.

I read somewhere (don't know if it's true)that he was active at least up to Thriller, and supposedly wore a disguise to do his door-to-door work, but did leave at some point afterwards. Which is interesting, since his JW family members didn't shun him afterwards, AFAIK.

[Exjw2015deed]

I read somewhere (don't know if it's true)that he was active at least up to Thriller, and supposedly wore a disguise to do his door-to-door work, but did leave at some point afterwards. Which is interesting, since his JW family members didn't shun him afterwards, AFAIK.

Yes he was disfellowshiped (shunned) after thriller. His mother and oldest sister continued and still to my knowledge are in the faith or how they call it (in the truth). I think the quote about him still going door to door in disguises was actually him being facetious.

They changed the rules about communication with a disfellowshiped person. If they're in your family you're allowed to communicate with them. I think they changed that rule in the mid 90's.