Trouble in Cedar Paradise?

[Koala]

generationcedar.com/main/2015/09/hey-mama-youre-going-to-get-through-it-ill-tell-you-how.html

Some days, if you could peek into my home, you’d find me on the floor in my bedroom, tear-stained face, heart aching, attempting a prayer that will only come out as a desperate, “God, please help me.â€

Since the Fall, we’ve been in trouble. (“In this life, you will have trouble…†John 16:33) It helps me to know that even though it feels so rotten, difficulty is a normal part of every life and Jesus predicted it, so part of getting past it is to embrace its reality, nod, and refuse to give it more power by gasping at its unexpectedness.

Wonder what that's about :?

[Sunshine1491]

I only read the one post, but it seems to be a really dramatic way of saying micromanaging kids is wrong? But it's okay if God micromanages the kids?

[DomWackTroll]

Pretty sure she means the Fall of Adam, (not Fall the season), and "we" refers to mankind in general. But like you, I do think something is going on in that family... Something Kelly is upset about.

[Koala]

Pretty sure she means the Fall of Adam, (not Fall the season), and "we" refers to mankind in general. But like you, I do think something is going on in that family... Something Kelly is upset about.

:doh: I swear sometimes I wonder where on earth my mind is! Of course that's what she meant! :lol: I thought it was weird.

Mods- please feel free to delete. Went totally over my head.

[AmazonGrace]

It seems being a fundie mom is really stressful because you fall apart crying on the floor the minute your kids show the first signs that they fail to be perfect and you can't force them to think like you want them to. But no worries, if you pray enough, God will force them to think like you want them to.

But at least her blog readers all think that she's perfect and that's something.

[DomWackTroll]

:doh: I swear sometimes I wonder where on earth my mind is! Of course that's what she meant! :lol: I thought it was weird.

Mods- please feel free to delete. Went totally over my head.

Oh, it happens to us all with these Dominionists. I mean, it's not like they talk (or write) like normal people.

[Sunshine1491]

Oh, it happens to us all with these Dominionists. I mean, it's not like they talk (or write) like normal people.

The 'Fall of Adam' is fundie-speak for 'Everything was great until the Fire Nation attacked'?

[Black Aliss]

It seems being a fundie mom is really stressful because you fall apart crying on the floor the minute your kids show the first signs that they fail to be perfect and you can't force them to think like you want them to. But no worries, if you pray enough, God will force them to think like you want them to.

I, too, thank god I'm not a fundie because, although parenting certainly had its moments, I never once ended up "on the floor in my bedroom, tear-stained face, heart aching, attempting a prayer that will only come out as a desperate, 'God, please help me.'†And the kids turned out great. I also never experienced the heartsick that Sarah Maxwell writes about so often, or needed the encouragement of like-minded fundies to get through another day/week/lifetime/eternity.

Why, with all this love of god in their hearts and lives, and the prospect of an eternity in heaven, are fundies so unhappy?

[AmazonGrace]

I, too, thank god I'm not a fundie because, although parenting certainly had its moments, I never once ended up "on the floor in my bedroom, tear-stained face, heart aching, attempting a prayer that will only come out as a desperate, 'God, please help me.'†And the kids turned out great. I also never experienced the heartsick that Sarah Maxwell writes about so often, or needed the encouragement of like-minded fundies to get through another day/week/lifetime/eternity.

Why, with all this love of god in their hearts and lives, and the prospect of an eternity in heaven, are fundies so unhappy?

And if God can forgive Joshley and Gothard and an assortment of other creepy adults, why is it so important that their kids act so perfect all the time and never talk back and think impure thoughts etc.? Can't God just forgive them when they inevitably do?

[Sunshine1491]

And if God can forgive Joshley and Gothard and an assortment of other creepy adults, why is it so important that their kids act so perfect all the time and never talk back and think impure thoughts etc.? Can't God just forgive them when they inevitably do?

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! You're not supposed to bring that up.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Pretty sure she means the Fall of Adam, (not Fall the season), and "we" refers to mankind in general. But like you, I do think something is going on in that family... Something Kelly is upset about.

I've thought that, too. The part I wonder about is whether there is something just going on in the family or whether it's something larger. Since the fall of the Tool, there have been lots of things going on beneath the surface, particularly in reformed fundie circles. The latest wave of scandals, esp. the ones involving Doug Wilson, are hitting hard if my chats with family are anything to go by. It's hard to explain because so much is in flux, but folks who already opposed by the modern world are now feeling betrayed by the systems they thought were in place to protect them from it. And that's causing a lot of edginess.

[gustava]

Couldn't happen to a nicer person!!!! :twisted:

[DomWackTroll]

I've thought that, too. The part I wonder about is whether there is something just going on in the family or whether it's something larger. Since the fall of the Tool, there have been lots of things going on beneath the surface, particularly in reformed fundie circles. The latest wave of scandals, esp. the ones involving Doug Wilson, are hitting hard if my chats with family are anything to go by. It's hard to explain because so much is in flux, but folks who already opposed by the modern world are now feeling betrayed by the systems they thought were in place to protect them from it. And that's causing a lot of edginess.

Yep. I'd say that Kim Coghlan is in even worse shape than Kelly. She went from being a very active, very opinionated, know-it-all preacher (yes, Kim, it was PREACHING whether you'll admit it or not) with thousands of adoring fans to what she always claimed to be: a quiet, submissive housewife who never gives an opinion on anything anymore. How could she? Not one, not two, but three of the "teachers" she promoted for years have been brought low in scandals; her eldest daughter is a divorcee who now flaunts her live-in relationship on Facebook; and even once-hardcore allies like Carmon Friedrich have thrown her under the bus.

If Kim could do what Carmon has done and admit that she was wrong, her (to me, obvious) depression would lift and people would eventually get over it. But between a husband who is in total denial of his own wrongdoing ("I was just the warehouse guy!") and her own stubbornness, it just ain't gonna happen.

[blessalessi]

Is Generation Cedar the same woman who had an interesting conversation about the Ashley Madison scandal in RCSproul Jr's FB comments, and then went dark for a while? :shifty-kitty:

[Cartmann99]

Yep. I'd say that Kim Coghlan is in even worse shape than Kelly. She went from being a very active, very opinionated, know-it-all preacher (yes, Kim, it was PREACHING whether you'll admit it or not) with thousands of adoring fans to what she always claimed to be: a quiet, submissive housewife who never gives an opinion on anything anymore. How could she? Not one, not two, but three of the "teachers" she promoted for years have been brought low in scandals; her eldest daughter is a divorcee who now flaunts her live-in relationship on Facebook; and even once-hardcore allies like Carmon Friedrich have thrown her under the bus.

If Kim could do what Carmon has done and admit that she was wrong, her (to me, obvious) depression would lift and people would eventually get over it. But between a husband who is in total denial of his own wrongdoing ("I was just the warehouse guy!") and her own stubbornness, it just ain't gonna happen.

I haven't really been keeping up with the Coghlan family for a while now. I heard something about the daughter's divorce, but didn't know she was living with someone. :o

[DomWackTroll]

I haven't really been keeping up with the Coghlan family for a while now. I heard something about the daughter's divorce, but didn't know she was living with someone. :o

Pretty sure she is:

facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205419723267708&set=a.2040958138764.2104134.1088626555&type=1&theater

[hoipolloi]

Oh, it happens to us all with these Dominionists. I mean, it's not like they talk (or write) like normal people.

Yes, between blog posts like this one and all of the vague-booking that goes on, it can be a challenge to figure out what's up.

On the other hand, it isn't just us. Lots of time, on FB, you see their leghumpers & friends rushing to ask what's happened in addition to the "I'll pray for you" posts.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm hearing sales are down for Kelly's books and stuff. At least that's what my cousins think. Take that info with a grain of salt.

[Howl]

I'm having a recurring vision of Generation Cedar being fed into a wood chipper and turned into mulch.

[Seven Severn]

>>snip<< Since the fall of the Tool, there have been lots of things going on beneath the surface, particularly in reformed fundie circles. The latest wave of scandals, esp. the ones involving Doug Wilson, are hitting hard if my chats with family are anything to go by. It's hard to explain because so much is in flux, but folks who already opposed by the modern world are now feeling betrayed by the systems they thought were in place to protect them from it. And that's causing a lot of edginess.

Can you tell how this edginess is manifesting itself? People who feel betrayed and vulnerable sometimes look for scapegoats outside of their own circles and your comment got me wondering about that. Are they blaming outside evildoers or could they be starting to ask hard questions of themselves? If the former, could they possibly snap in a violent way? Are they looking to hunker down even more? This is so interesting to me and I'm sorry my thoughts/questions aren't clearer.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Can you tell how this edginess is manifesting itself? People who feel betrayed and vulnerable sometimes look for scapegoats outside of their own circles and your comment got me wondering about that. Are they blaming outside evildoers or could they be starting to ask hard questions of themselves? If the former, could they possibly snap in a violent way? Are they looking to hunker down even more? This is so interesting to me and I'm sorry my thoughts/questions aren't clearer.

It's a little hard to summarize because it's different for different people. However, there's kind of a mix of blaming evildoers, asking hard questions of themselves, and pretending like nothing happened. And sometimes you see it all in the same church and so I'm starting to hear arguments over where to go next. Some people want to examine the larger issues and others are frankly just looking for the next leader they can trust. I think the mixed emotions and variety of reactions is causing a larger unsettled feeling in the community.

There's definitely a sort of hunkering down in that a lot of folks who were far into VF are (naturally, I think) not sure who they can trust. I've been seeing a lot of friendships between families get strained over this. I'm not sure I see anyone building up to snap in a violent way, but there is definitely a lot of debate going on.

I've seen the same debate in more mainstream Christian circles, too, but it's intense in my old church and my family circles. It's basically a debate between what some commentators call the "Benedict option" (retreat from the world) and the "Daniel option" (be in the world but not conforming to it).

Hopefully that helps clarify for you. If you have any specific questions, I'll answer what i can without sharing non-public confidences.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I'm seeing a lot of questions/discussions/debates among my friends, as well. Little things are changing here and there (modestly levels, quiver full ideas, questioning leaders, etc.) and not everyone is pleased with it. I, for one, am grateful to see some of the legalistic leanings begin to straighten out.

[Seven Severn]

It's a little hard to summarize because it's different for different people. However, there's kind of a mix of blaming evildoers, asking hard questions of themselves, and pretending like nothing happened. And sometimes you see it all in the same church and so I'm starting to hear arguments over where to go next. Some people want to examine the larger issues and others are frankly just looking for the next leader they can trust. I think the mixed emotions and variety of reactions is causing a larger unsettled feeling in the community.

There's definitely a sort of hunkering down in that a lot of folks who were far into VF are (naturally, I think) not sure who they can trust. I've been seeing a lot of friendships between families get strained over this. I'm not sure I see anyone building up to snap in a violent way, but there is definitely a lot of debate going on.

I've seen the same debate in more mainstream Christian circles, too, but it's intense in my old church and my family circles. It's basically a debate between what some commentators call the "Benedict option" (retreat from the world) and the "Daniel option" (be in the world but not conforming to it).

Hopefully that helps clarify for you. If you have any specific questions, I'll answer what i can without sharing non-public confidences.

Thank you so much for this. This is intriguing to me because it's so foreign: I was raised United Methodist and we don't attach to leaders (there are ministers and bishops, but everything is run by committee; Dougie-type demigods aren't allowed).

Would you say that relationships are becoming strained due to theological issues or loyalty to personalities? The ones who want to examine the issues, what issues would those be?

If people were to actually retreat from the world how would that manifest itself?

[GenerationCedarchip]

Thank you so much for this. This is intriguing to me because it's so foreign: I was raised United Methodist and we don't attach to leaders (there are ministers and bishops, but everything is run by committee; Dougie-type demigods aren't allowed).

Would you say that relationships are becoming strained due to theological issues or loyalty to personalities? The ones who want to examine the issues, what issues would those be?

If people were to actually retreat from the world how would that manifest itself?

In terms of relationships becoming strained, that would involve a huge variety of things. IN circles I'm most personally familiar with, a lot has to do with debates over modesty, legalism, courtship, etc... On the one side, you have folks who believe that the old way is still best but that folks like Doug Phillips were brought down by their own sin and it's not the system that is to blame. Others think we need to look at whether believers have been too blindly following leaders and paying attention to rules of dress and behavior rather than Scripture. I'm painting with a super-broad brush here, but that's the essence of a lot of conversations I've been privy to.

In terms of retreating from the world, again, keep in mind that conservative Christianity is not one monolithic hive mind. So, a retreat will look different in different circles. For some folks, it's just staying engaged with the larger world to an extent while retreating from politics, public schools, pop culture and things they deem to be bad influences on their faith and families. For others, it's a more radical idea of moving to a place of like-minded believers (I know I've personally heard Moscow, ID mentioned as well as places in TN, AL, TX and VA) and homeschooling/homechurching/starting one's own businesses outside the reach of mainstream society as much as humanly possible.

There are some discussions of the "Benedict Option" here:

www.worldmag.com/2015/06/rod_dreher_exp ... ict_option

theweek.com/articles/555734/benedict-option-why-religious-right-considering-allout-withdrawal-from-politics

[Seven Severn]

In terms of relationships becoming strained, that would involve a huge variety of things. IN circles I'm most personally familiar with, a lot has to do with debates over modesty, legalism, courtship, etc... On the one side, you have folks who believe that the old way is still best but that folks like Doug Phillips were brought down by their own sin and it's not the system that is to blame. Others think we need to look at whether believers have been too blindly following leaders and paying attention to rules of dress and behavior rather than Scripture. I'm painting with a super-broad brush here, but that's the essence of a lot of conversations I've been privy to.

In terms of retreating from the world, again, keep in mind that conservative Christianity is not one monolithic hive mind. So, a retreat will look different in different circles. For some folks, it's just staying engaged with the larger world to an extent while retreating from politics, public schools, pop culture and things they deem to be bad influences on their faith and families. For others, it's a more radical idea of moving to a place of like-minded believers (I know I've personally heard Moscow, ID mentioned as well as places in TN, AL, TX and VA) and homeschooling/homechurching/starting one's own businesses outside the reach of mainstream society as much as humanly possible.

There are some discussions of the "Benedict Option" here:

http://www.worldmag.com/2015/06/rod_dre ... ict_option

theweek.com/articles/555734/benedict-option-why-religious-right-considering-allout-withdrawal-from-politics

Thanks, again! I appreciate your time and effort in responding. This was very helpful and the links clarified things even more.

This all reminds me of the Christian Exodus movement: Conservative Christians would move to South Carolina en masse and take over local governments and eventually take over the state gov't with secession being the ultimate goal. Only a few families made the move, although some went to Idaho instead. The leader ultimately had to step down because he couldn't find a job in SC.

You stated earlier that you were wary of revealing confidences. With that in mind, could you recommend any public blogs or other forums where people are discussing these issues?

All these people feeling so off balance is fascinating. When a person's entire world view comes into question and their carefully constructed protections are seen, in reality, to be fragile I can't help but think that things are going to go very badly for some of them. I hope your friends and family are able to get to a place -- spiritually and emotionally -- where they're comfortable.