Woman denied treatment because its inherently evil.

[doggie]

This is just the start if the catholic church keeps taking over medical. they kind of miss how forcing your faith on others has led to evil. and the doctors oath of do no harm.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/09/15 ... ion-video/

hirty-three-year-old Jessica Mann is pregnant with her third child, and expected to give birth sometime within the next few weeks. Buy she’s also been diagnosed with pilocytic astrocytomas, a brain tumor which can cause blindness and paralysis. A medical specialist who is overseeing her pregnancy has recommended that she have a tubal ligation to prevent further pregnancy, which doctors believe could put her life in danger.

Due to the presence of the tumor in her brain, Mann’s pregnancy is considered high-risk. She cannot deliver vaginally, and will need to be fully anesthetized during delivery by Caesarean section. While this is the safest way for her to deliver, the risk of complications during any medical procedure that requires the patient to be fully anesthetized are relatively high. In Mann’s case, the strain on her body caused by pregnancy and surgical delivery present additional risks to her health.

For these reasons, Mann’s doctors advised that she get her tubes tied, following the birth of her child. A tubal ligation is a very common surgical procedure, chosen by at least 30 percent of women to prevent unwanted pregnancy. In Mann’s case, the safest and most reasonable time to undergo that procedure is during her upcoming Caesarean section.

Until last year Genesys Hospital, located in Michigan’s Grand Blanc Township, performed tubal ligations routinely. But in 2014, the hospital banned the common medical procedure, declaring it “intrinsically evil.†At the time that they announced the policy change, hospital representatives stated that they would allow exemptions to the religious ban, in cases where the “direct effect and immediate purpose is the cure or alleviation of a present and serious pathology, and a simpler treatment is not available.â€

[Sunshine1491]

Fuckin' fundies. I saw that article a few days ago.

Their Logic: CLEARLY the LORD wants her to have two different major surgeries because obviously God's the one who caused the tumor and it's not for us to know why God wants this poor woman to have two major abdominal surgeries and the associated bankrupting financial costs. Blame the unknowable mind of God. We didn't decide this.

ALL REASONABLE PEOPLE: Stop being a fuckin' weasel and treat the patient. It's a tubal! It doesn't matter what you believe! I can SCIENTIFICALLY PROVE that a tubal ligation and an abortion are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

my god fundies make me rageypants in the morning.

[Cleopatra7]

If you talk to conservative Catholics about the problem of Catholic hospitals not providing certain types of women's health care, they get offended, because in their minds the fact that the Catholic church is providing a social good means that no one should criticize how these institutions are run (these same people tend to put women's health in scare quotes). The same thing is true for end of life care, in that Catholic hospitals can override living wills and other planned directives if said plans do not align with Catholic teachings on the subject:

http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2010 ... hospitals/

[libriatrix]

ALL REASONABLE PEOPLE: Stop being a fuckin' weasel and treat the patient. It's a tubal! It doesn't matter what you believe! I can SCIENTIFICALLY PROVE that a tubal ligation and an abortion are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

If it's a Catholic hospital, I'm pretty sure that the problem is not that they think of it as an abortion. The problem would be that it's "not remaining open to life" which is the Catholic litmus test for whether different types of birth control are acceptable or not. Rendering yourself unable to have children ever again is just anathema unless possibly you also intend to remain perpetually celibate, because having sex without the possibility of conceiving is what they have ruled evil.

[Anonymousguest]

It's pretty standard at a Catholic hospital to have to get "permission" for a tubal. I delivered and had my tubal at a Catholic hospital. My OB had to present my case before a committee. She said it was just a formality and she had never had one denied. The only issue was that I had to decide far enough in advance of my scheduled delivery for them to review and OK the procedure.

It's a very large hospital that delivers thousands of babies and has the highest level neo natal hospital in the area, which is a fairly large metropolitan area.

[Snarkylark]

I hope she can find another hospital to take over her care. She shouldn't have to though. That's ridiculous.

[Terrie]

I first read that as "woman denied treatment because SHE is inherently evil." which actually may be a more accurate reflection of their thinking.

[Jana814]

I hope she can find another hospital to take over her care. She shouldn't have to though. That's ridiculous.

Same here.

[Cannelle]

If it's a Catholic hospital, I'm pretty sure that the problem is not that they think of it as an abortion. The problem would be that it's "not remaining open to life" which is the Catholic litmus test for whether different types of birth control are acceptable or not. Rendering yourself unable to have children ever again is just anathema unless possibly you also intend to remain perpetually celibate, because having sex without the possibility of conceiving is what they have ruled evil.

I don't think they're remaining open to the patient's life.

[tropaka]

Edited because I can't read (read a snip somewhere else).

I had a tubal ligation in a Catholic hospital. My doctor simply stated my diabetes would make further pregnancies risky. I don't get why they wouldn't give her an exemption.

[doggie]

lets hope but how much will it cost her. the problem with absolute morals is they can kill and those same people never take responsibility for those deaths or the results.

[Sunshine1491]

If it's a Catholic hospital, I'm pretty sure that the problem is not that they think of it as an abortion. The problem would be that it's "not remaining open to life" which is the Catholic litmus test for whether different types of birth control are acceptable or not. Rendering yourself unable to have children ever again is just anathema unless possibly you also intend to remain perpetually celibate, because having sex without the possibility of conceiving is what they have ruled evil.

I'm glad you clarified it with the 'not remaining open to life' clause. I still think it's ridiculous, but now I can be more accurate about what I think is ridiculous.

[Alicja]

wouldn't allowing a woman to die should she get pregnant be a greater sin than a tubal litigation? 'cause you know, we've got that no sin is equal thing going on...

[Black Aliss]

I had a tubal ligation in a Catholic hospital. My doctor simply stated my diabetes would make further pregnancies risky. I don't get why they wouldn't give her an exemption.

Because the Catholic church in recent years has become much more virulently fundamentalist.

[doggie]

wouldn't allowing a woman to die should she get pregnant be a greater sin than a tubal litigation? 'cause you know, we've got that no sin is equal thing going on...

I have wondered that but sinful for who? would the person who makes the choice be sinning? somehow I doubt it.

[doggie]

Because the Catholic church in recent years has become much more virulently fundamentalist.

yes instead of bringing people in chase even more off works wonders.

[apple1]

I had a tubal ligation 30 years ago at a Catholic hospital.

I also (previously) had been an employee at the same Catholic hospital and birth control pills were covered by the employees' health insurance plan.

A different group of Catholic hospitals in our area do not cover BC and don't routinely allow tubals to be performed.

One size does not fit all.

[August]

If it's a Catholic hospital, I'm pretty sure that the problem is not that they think of it as an abortion. The problem would be that it's "not remaining open to life" which is the Catholic litmus test for whether different types of birth control are acceptable or not. Rendering yourself unable to have children ever again is just anathema unless possibly you also intend to remain perpetually celibate, because having sex without the possibility of conceiving is what they have ruled evil.

See, this is epitome of stupidity. Are infertile Catholics barred from having sex? Fallopian tubes occluded by scar tissue don't care what caused the scar tissue. Is their god not omniscient? Could it not simply heal the fallopian tubes? Maybe if we used Mycobacterium leprae to cause the scarring it would be OK?

Otherwise stated as God: only slightly less powerful than a condom.

[salex]

Because the Catholic church in recent years has become much more virulently fundamentalist.

Fundamentalism across Christian churches of many denominations has just taken off the last few years. It is sometimes almost a race to holier than thou..

First, there were exceptions for rape and incest-- an abortion might be OK then.

Then that wasn't allowed and ending ectopic pregnancies was considered abortion by more and more fundies.

Then, in the article Molar Pregancies were not supposed to be terminated.... (Note, this explains the long scientific explanation one of the fundie relatives send out about her molar pregnancy--I didn't realize she would have to convince people she didn't have an abortion--but that is what you get for announcing before the pee stick is dry)

Now not even a tubal ligation .....

I had a premature rupture of membrane and went to a catholic hospital (years ago) and was induced a week later when it was clear we would not be able to have a good outcome. I suspect that there

would be more pushback today, given changes in the laws and attitudes across the country.

[August]

WTFF???? If a molar pregnancy is somehow going to mutate into a human and live a full and free life, are we still allowed to destroy a normal placenta? And what about other cancers? After all, they deserve to live, too, right?

Although it makes a certain sick sense. They worship sperm and despise women, so they'd naturally be on the side of a sperm gone crazy and trying to kill a woman.

(a molar pregnancy is a cancer. There are two kinds, one is sperm plus nucleus-free egg, creates basically a cancerous placenta. The other kind is egg plus two sperm, there can be fetal tissue in the tumor, I think)

[YoshiCat]

See, this is epitome of stupidity. Are infertile Catholics barred from having sex? Fallopian tubes occluded by scar tissue don't care what caused the scar tissue. Is their god not omniscient? Could it not simply heal the fallopian tubes? Maybe if we used Mycobacterium leprae to cause the scarring it would be OK?

Otherwise stated as God: only slightly less powerful than a condom.

Infertile Catholics are not barred from having sex. If your fallopian tubes became occluded with scar tissue from natural causes, that's just what happened. You can't deliberately create scar tissue for the purpose of preventing pregnancy.

It's all about intent.

It's okay to do things that prevent pregnancy as a side affect. You can take hormonal birth control to prevent fibroid or ovarian cysts or control painful periods because you're treating a medical problem and preventing pregnancy is a side affect. But you cannot take it for the purpose of preventing pregnancy.

You cannot treat an ectopic pregnancy with the medication methotrexate, because it works by killing the fetus (and then your body will usually excrete the fetus. You cannot have surgery to remove the fetus, as the goal is to kill the fetus. You can, however have surgery to treat the pain and inflammation of the fallopian tube, removing the cause of the pain and inflammation. This also kills the fetus, but as a side affect of treating the problem with the fallopian tube.

Yes, it's some extreme mental gymnastics, but at least you can get treatment for an ectopic pregnancy.

Sex exists for the purpose of creating life. That it's fun is just a bonus to encourage you to do it and create life. Because of this, you cannot and should not attempt to separate sex and conception. God put sex and conception toget her and you defy him by trying to separate the two.

IVF is forbidden not just because it creates embryos that may be discarded, but because it removes conception from the manner and place that God intended. There are actually a few things you can do to treat infertility, although they're controversial. You can have a doctor extract an egg from your ovary and shoot it in to the uterus via the cervix, then have sex. You can put an egg and some sperm in a test tube, shake it up a little and then shoot it into the uterus via the cervix.

Also, if you need a sperm sample, you cannot masterbate even though it's for a medical purpose and not for fun (although I'm not sure why this doesn't qualify for the side affect loophole). The proper way to get a sperm sample is to poke a hole in a condom and then have sex while wearing it.

The Catholic Church loves you and wants what's best for you. And only the Catholic Church knows what's best for you. Neither you nor your doctor know what's best.

And that concludes today's Catholic Mental Gymnastics class. Thank you and have a pleasant tomorrow.

[doggie]

It's okay to do things that prevent pregnancy as a side affect. You can take hormonal birth control to prevent fibroid or ovarian cysts or control painful periods because you're treating a medical problem and preventing pregnancy is a side affect. But you cannot take it for the purpose of preventing pregnancy.

You cannot treat an ectopic pregnancy with the medication methotrexate, because it works by killing the fetus (and then your body will usually excrete the fetus. You cannot have surgery to remove the fetus, as the goal is to kill the fetus. You can, however have surgery to treat the pain and inflammation of the fallopian tube, removing the cause of the pain and inflammation. This also kills the fetus, but as a side affect of treating the problem with the fallopian tube.

Yes, it's some extreme mental gymnastics, but at least you can get treatment for an ectopic pregnancy.

I am sure god is fully fooled y the practices too.

[sophie10130]

I don't know if I was just talking to a particularly out there priest, but I remember being taught that if you knew you were infertile and would never get pregnant, it was asked of you by the Church to remain single and devote your life to the church in a single vocation like being a nun.

The way he phrased it was basically so the guy you would have married would then not be wasted on someone who couldn't get knocked up.

Anyone else hear anything like this?