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Closed Womb

Maddie Brown Engaged, Married, Pregnant

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VelociRapture
Why is everyone thinking she'll quit school and start a life in polygamy? Maddie is probably the most opinionated, self-determined of all the older kids and perfectly capable of making her own decisions. She's not a sheltered ATI girl, FFS.

I will defend the Browns over all ATIers any day despite their fucked up family dynamics. Maddie enjoyed a proper education, has a self-determined mother whose self-confidence is continuously growing, parents who love her and support her decisions. Her decision to marry does not read at all like it's been made under pressure of her family. They've been shown to support Maddie even though they might not be completely in love with her choices, but as long as she gave a proper explanation they had her back.

When Mykelti had her first boyfriend, Kody gave the infamous kissing speech but they stuck it out with their teeth clenched. The Browns are not prison guard parents a la Duggar/Bates/Maxwell.

Sometimes I feel like people on FJ expect fundies to never rethink a decision or revise a plan once it's been stated in public. How many of us said and planned something that turned out to be hollow and crude years later? Hell, Maddie was 17 and still weaning from the rebellious age when she rolled her eyes at marriage and polygamy. She'll turn 20 soon, plans can change. Maybe she herself was a little surprised by the proposal but found that that's what she really wants now? Meh. :shrug:

Her marrying at a young age does not mean she's suddenly become any more fond of polygamy either. Even if she did, it's her choice. Just because I find the idea of a polygamous marriage unappealing, doesn't mean I don't want anyone else to live like that. I want everyone who's captured in a rather isolated culture to have the chance of making up their minds, live away from their secured family fortresses and have an Amish-style rumspringa in order to find out what they really want. If they decide that they want the one life they've ever known, then more power to them.

I don't know a whole lot about these families. Most of what I know comes from the media and what I see here (because I refuse to watch their shows - especially any shows that run on TLC.)

Based off what very little I know though, I would agree with you on this. The Browns at least seem to encourage their kids to pursue real educational activities and trust them enough to allow them to live on campus by themselves. The Duggars may (or may not) have allowed Joseph to do that with Crown College, but even if they did he would be the outlier (not to mention I highly doubt he would be taught anything that directly contradicts his beliefs.) Same with the Bates family and other ATI families - they claim to be open to educating their children, but all they really care about is keeping them educationally stunted enough so they don't question what their religion teaches.

Maddie choosing to marry at a young age doesn't mean she is giving up on her dreams or is bound to wind up in a polygamous marriage. All it means is she found someone she can see a future with earlier than she originally expected.

I hope they have a beautiful wedding and a very happy life together.

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DarkAnts

I'd say that most of the colleges in Utah are supportive of married students, since those who have served missions tend to get married relatively quickly, either through pressure, or they want to avoid committing the serious sin of having premarital sex. I also saw with my youngest stepsister who got back from a mission last fall, that she got married after dating another returned missionary for a brief period. At least in her case, she was friends with him in high school, so it's not like she married someone she just met. Her 20 year old niece on her mom's side got married a couple of weeks before she did, and this summer, she went to the weddings of some of her former missionary companions and friends from high school. At least those who have gotten married are continuing their education, instead of just settling for their Mrs degree.

To me, it sounds like Maddie is like those mainstream Mormons in that she wanted to get married ASAP, even if she doesn't practice polygamy.

Many missionaries leave behind girlfriends. The lucky ones still have them when they return.

One of my friends works a BYU she said that the walls at the missionary training center were there to keep girlfriends out. She was joking but I will always remember that.

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defraudingjezebel

Maddie posted on twitter a couple of days ago that she was rejected from gaining membership in the mainstream Mormon Church. She blames her close association with her polygamous family but commenters on cynical jynx's blog think otherwise. They assert that the LDS Church wouldn't turn someone down without a grave reason to do so. Who knows what the truth is.

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silverspoons
Maddie posted on twitter a couple of days ago that she was rejected from gaining membership in the mainstream Mormon Church. She blames her close association with her polygamous family but commenters on cynical jynx's blog think otherwise. They assert that the LDS Church wouldn't turn someone down without a grave reason to do so. Who knows what the truth is.

I find this VERY hard to believe. I know many polygamist kids and young adults baptized into the LDS church while still keeping in close contact with FLDS family. At my son's high school there is a growing group of 16-19 year olds from Colorado city who are now living in Utah that have been baptized LDS and still go to visit their family in Colorado City. In fact one kids died last year hiking with his polygamist family on the weekend(in fact I believe he might have a last name that is in the Brown's family tree)

My husband's father was raised in a polygamist family. he and his 11 brothers all slowly left and all became LDS and 2 are currently LDS bishops. They still visited Canbeds/Colorado city and their family.

When you go to get baptized LDS, the bishop will ask you a series of questions. That is the only possibility of a baptism being stopped. Questions are like do you believe the book of Mormon is true, will you follow the word of wisdom (no smoking drinking etc) , and Do you believe this is the one true church(and I know people who have kind of skirted this question because of relationships with past faiths and still got baptized).

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NotALoserLikeYou

So what reasons would they have to reject someone? I didn't even realize that was a thing. I guess if she weren't honest during the process. That they found out something she hadn't disclosed? You would think you wouldn't apply for a religion unless you were all in.

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Monkeebrainz

They could think that she will bring negative attention to the church.

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mstee

My understanding of the situation was that Maddie was dating an LDS boy while at school in Utah. She then becomes interested in the LDS church. The guy breaks up with her, and the church looses some value to her. This is based on the parents asking more than once if she was joining for a boy. And then on cynical jinx someone that knew her said her heart had been broken in Utah and this guy she was marrying was her rebound guy. It was probably not a conviction for her to join the church; probably more of a "well my boyfriend is LDS and I would feel comfortable in that church". She said on Twitter that her fiancé now is a very strong Christian. So I imagine she'll just end up non denominational Christian now and be ok with that. She just seems to want an accepting community.

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defraudingjezebel
My understanding of the situation was that Maddie was dating an LDS boy while at school in Utah. She then becomes interested in the LDS church. The guy breaks up with her, and the church looses some value to her. This is based on the parents asking more than once if she was joining for a boy. And then on cynical jinx someone that knew her said her heart had been broken in Utah and this guy she was marrying was her rebound guy. It was probably not a conviction for her to join the church; probably more of a "well my boyfriend is LDS and I would feel comfortable in that church". She said on Twitter that her fiancé now is a very strong Christian. So I imagine she'll just end up non denominational Christian now and be ok with that. She just seems to want an accepting community.

I worry that if her boyfriend is a Christian of the non-Mormon/LDS variety, that it'll be quite a bit of a shock to her system. From my meager understanding, there's a vast set of differences between the core beliefs of protestant Christianity and the LDS church. The jump from AUB to mainstream LDS would have been a much smaller adjustment. I hope she's able to find a spiritual community that doesn't vilify her or her family .

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TXGirlInAMaterialWorld

Hmmm that is very interesting. I can't think that the LDS Church is too choosy since they send people to knock doors and drum up converts.

If it was because of her family association- that is just the most backwards thing I have ever heard.

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mstee

Obviously I don't know the girl, but i think she'll have no issue going to mainstream Christianity. While she comes off strong, I get the feeling that she's the type to easily blend in. I don't think she had strong convictions about being part of the AUB even though she grew up in it. I think for her it's about acceptance in a community rather than a conviction in the core beliefs.

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DCM

I worry that if her boyfriend is a Christian of the non-Mormon/LDS variety, that it'll be quite a bit of a shock to her system. From my meager understanding, there's a vast set of differences between the core beliefs of protestant Christianity and the LDS church. The jump from AUB to mainstream LDS would have been a much smaller adjustment. I hope she's able to find a spiritual community that doesn't vilify her or her family .

There are vast differences, so much so that almost all mainstream Christians would state that the LDS church cannot claim Christian affiliation. However, almost all mormons will claim to be Christians. They both believe in Jesus Christ but the person represented in each set of beliefs is very different from one another. For example, mainstream Christians believe in the trinity (aside from oneness Pentecostals also considered to be an offshoot) and that Christ, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are three embodiment of one God, similar to how water can be a gas, solid or liquid while still being water but all at the same time. LDS believe that Christ is actually the physical son of God and is a distinct person, not one and the same. The Jesus each group believes in is not the same as the other. Therefore it would involve a lot of belief changes to convert from an LDS based faith to Protestant Christianity. Some other differences include plan for salvation, atonement, afterlife, the nature of humanity and it's purpose on earth etc. She would literally be starting over with her beliefs if she converted to a Protestant form of Christianity.

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Monkeebrainz

I worry that if her boyfriend is a Christian of the non-Mormon/LDS variety, that it'll be quite a bit of a shock to her system. From my meager understanding, there's a vast set of differences between the core beliefs of protestant Christianity and the LDS church. The jump from AUB to mainstream LDS would have been a much smaller adjustment. I hope she's able to find a spiritual community that doesn't vilify her or her family .

There is a lot of friction between evangelicals and Mormons. Christians really despise Mormons. It will be difficult for her to reconcile her family's beliefs with any other group.

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ladidah

I agree that Protestant theology is very different from LDS (not to mention AUB) theology, but mainstream evangelicalism is culturally very similar to Mormonism. So, if Maddie's looking for a cultural/group fit, rather than a set of doctrines, she might get along fine with evangelical Protestantism.

Mainline Protestantism could be a different story!

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Monkeebrainz
I agree that Protestant theology is very different from LDS (not to mention AUB) theology, but mainstream evangelicalism is culturally very similar to Mormonism. So, if Maddie's looking for a cultural/group fit, rather than a set of doctrines, she might get along fine with evangelical Protestantism.

Mainline Protestantism could be a different story!

I think she would do better with mainline protestants because they would not be as judgy about doctrine. She would be happy amongst evangelicals if she rejects her mormonism and embraces evangelical beliefs. They won't accept her unless she does.

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Mum2theRoyalFlush
Based on what I've read, Mormon women in general are encouraged to marry young, so Maddie getting engaged at 18 isn't that unusual (it seems like most of the women at BYU are there to get their MRS degree and expect to be married by graduation). At least she was able to freely choose her spouse and whether she wanted to be polygamist, which is more than a lot of women raised in the AUB can probably say.

Mormon woman here. Women in Utah marry young, but 18 is REALLY young. Women are encouraged to go to college and have education (which Maddie started but won't continue right now). I got married at 22. My sisters each got married after they had finished their education.

However, Mormon engagements are SHORT. Many people only know their intended spouse months, not years, before they marry. And, they marry "for time and all eternity"--so it's not like this is a little thing. A decision they expect will last forever, made in just a few months.

The other thing I don't see people discussing is the AUB has a compound in Montana. This guy is from that area. His family are polygamists. I do think he agreed not to be a polygamist, but if met with the opportunity? I think it's there.

Anyway, just throwing my 2 cents into the pot.

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Mum2theRoyalFlush
Maddie went off to USU last fall. USU is marriage central. The LDS church is encouraging marrying young after dropping the mission age a few years ago. I know so many 18-19-20 year old's that got married this summer. I'm kind of okay with the ones that go to college. USU, UVU. Dixie, all are very supportive of married students, in fact I would say more students are married then single. Then there are the "kids" that marry and have $10 a hr jobs and go right for the dream mini mansion in the suburbs and with the low interest rates, it was crazy to see 19 year olds getting married getting 3500 sf 6 bedroom homes as starter homes.

My concern is I don't believe Caleb's employment is near her college. She lucked out being able to go to USU basically free. It was a lucky few years because of the lowering of the mission age and enrollment dropped that out of state students got in state rates which a dirt cheap and Maddie had a small scholarship.

My husband who grew up with polygamist grandparents and visiting Short Creek , has a feeling Caleb has a polygamist background. While I would say at leatst 50% of my neighbors could say the same thing so that isn't my concern. I just hope Maddie got enough time on her own to find what she really wanted. When she left for college 1 year ago she said she wanted to end up in NYC being a lawyer. Then last winter, 4-5 months after leaving home she was engaged to a guy she knew from her family. He works on mine equipment in a rather rural area. Big difference in her dreams changing in a few months. I hope she is able to finish school and hopefully stay where she is so she doesn't go into debt when she had a free ride at USU.

USU has good outreach programs--she can probably still do some courses through correspondence/video conferencing. And, I totally agree with your husband. I have polygamous background... but it ended in 1900. So my great-great-great grandparents (6 generations removed from me.) That'd be typical for a current Mormon. I have to go back to 1880's to find one.

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LizzieD70
SoCalrules - I agree with you on Robin - I've never liked her. I also hate that her kids were pushed to call Kody dad. Kids need to make those kind of decisions for themselves. Her kids are probably the most traumatized of the bunch.

I am a stepmom. I agree 100% with what you say. My most cherished moment was when I overheard my stepdaughter say to her friends, "she's MY Liz"....and I would commonly hear say things like, "I will ask my Liz" -- mom is just a word....I focused more on the relationship.

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AngelGirl8811

I am a stepmom. I agree 100% with what you say. My most cherished moment was when I overheard my stepdaughter say to her friends, "she's MY Liz"....and I would commonly hear say things like, "I will ask my Liz" -- mom is just a word....I focused more on the relationship.

Oh! That's so cute! And I totally agree with what you both are saying. I do not think that Robyn's kids should have been told to call Kody Dad. Maybe her kids wanted to still have a relationship with their Dad. I think Kody is a tool and Robyn is most definitely always scheming. Meri seems to be suffering and I think it's because she actually did think that Robyn was her friend, not that she was jockeying for her position.

As for Maddie! I hope that she and her future husband are super happy!

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ladidah

I think she would do better with mainline protestants because they would not be as judgy about doctrine. She would be happy amongst evangelicals if she rejects her mormonism and embraces evangelical beliefs. They won't accept her unless she does.

Yeah, I was just thinking that mainline Protestantism's a pretty far cry, culturally, from the LDS church. I have friends who've left the LDS church and become fairly liberal who would still never, ever be comfortable in a mainline church. It's far more common, among the people I know, for ex-Mormons to become either agnostic or "spiritual but not religious."

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Alexa

I have to say I find it hard to believe that the LDS church didn't accept Maddie because of her family, she probably had a hard time because the LDS church wasn't very accepting of her family and when push came to shove she couldn't totally break away from her family.

Anyway, I am surprised no media outlets or tabloids are talking about the voice mails and letters Meri sent to the person who catfished her where she is saying she loves him etc. You would think with all the people out for TLC's blood right now there'd be more attention on one of the Sister Wives having an affair.

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gustava

It would surprise me if the LDS church told her she had to break with her family. I've know polygamists who were still in touch with family.

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Alexa
It would surprise me if the LDS church told her she had to break with her family. I've know polygamists who were still in touch with family.

I agree even though I didn't explain myself very well, I just can't imagine that the LDS church told Maddie to break away from her family especially with all the converts from polygamy to LDS who keep in contact with their polygamist parents. I don't like to think Maddie is lying about that, but seeing how much her 5 parents feel okay to lie about or exaggerate things to make themselves look better who knows?

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NotALoserLikeYou
I have to say I find it hard to believe that the LDS church didn't accept Maddie because of her family, she probably had a hard time because the LDS church wasn't very accepting of her family and when push came to shove she couldn't totally break away from her family.

Anyway, I am surprised no media outlets or tabloids are talking about the voice mails and letters Meri sent to the person who catfished her where she is saying she loves him etc. You would think with all the people out for TLC's blood right now there'd be more attention on one of the Sister Wives having an affair.

This is the first I've heard of it! Omg!

allaboutthetea.com/2015/09/25/sisterwives-meri-brown-caught-cheating-on-kody-brown-with-catfish-lover/

Listen to 9 and 10! I can't believe notbatmanyet was s woman catfish.

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Depressed
polecat

This is the first I've heard of it! Omg!

allaboutthetea.com/2015/09/25/sisterwives-meri-brown-caught-cheating-on-kody-brown-with-catfish-lover/

Listen to 9 and 10! I can't believe notbatmanyet was s woman catfish.

Shoot, several of us got hinky vibes from "him" right off the bat. All "his" social media" accounts screamed fake, fake, fake.

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=26447&hilit=meri+brown&start=80#p980891

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=26447&hilit=meri+brown&start=100#p982217

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Pretzel

I think these news deserve their own thread. Whodathunk Maddie would pull a Jill Dillard and get pregnant so soon after her wedding. More power to her if that is what she wants but I fear she's being used as an example of how those are being rewarded who turn from a rebellious teenage phase back on the right path after all. Marriage, kids, SAHM...If she goes on to be a Sister Wife, I'll have to eat all my hats. 

http://people.com/babies/sister-wives-maddie-brown-brush-pregnant-exclusive/

Of course, Kodouche is already milking it on twitter and he sure as hell will on the show: 

ETA: more information

Edited by Pretzel

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