Parents Upset Over Islam Unit in Schools MERGED

[samurai_sarah]

1 hour ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

These are great examples, in my opinion.  Faith has a huge part in the development of a region - ignoring it creates an elephant in the room.

Would Brits expect someone to understand Northern Ireland without discussing religion at all?  (not hypothetical - serious)

I think discussing any of these places without referencing the religious background wouldn't be helpful. Not being British, I learned about NI in school, in Germany. We were given the religious background, alongside the history and political background.

As I said, I'm not British, so I can't answer your question. But I suspect it would be very, very difficult to teach anything about culture, history and politics in NI, without mentioning religion.

3 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Do they try cirillic, hebrew, greek, chinese, malleala calligraphy too? I have difficulties understanding the usefulness of such a lesson, Arabic looks incomprehensible and difficult the first time as do Chinese and every language that uses a different alphabet. I don't know if I manage to express this well but this sort of lesson doesn't add real knowledge but only underlines the "alieneness" of another culture and can make it look like exaggerately difficult to approach.

I can see where you're coming from with regards to making another culture seem more alien. But I do think learning about different alphabets can be helpful. On the one hand, it might make people seem more alien. On the other, it promotes understanding that one way is not the only way.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm not at all shocked at the reactions. The mere mention of another religion other that Christianity is met with hostility in most parts of the U.S. Ignorant assholes!

[OnceUponATime]

Geography in my school was earth science/physical geography (mostly). We had social studies before that (gradewise) which did everything although religions were not really taught (I hated it: that one term spent learning about the black plague was a time-waster imo).

42 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Mileage varies - I think it's a ridiculous assignment.  Wedding calligraphy is hard to write too, if my kids had been told to write a line of the Lord's Prayer in it to see that it was hard to write even as a Catholic I'd be pissed at the content and the point of the assignment. 

 

I think in that case the corresponding assignment would be for someone to draw a Mary statue/ color a stained glass window.
If it is only to 'show calligraphy is hard' ok it is a stupid assignment. I however could see a test on the subject including a question such as "how are mosques decorated?", and the simple act of having tried calligraphy would aid some students in recalling the information.

I'm a hands on learner - so things like that although they seem silly, help me retain information. There was nothing worse for me than having to learn a what color different chemicals would form and if they would precipitate without being able to experiment with them.
 

[louisa05]

1 minute ago, OnceUponATime said:

Geography in my school was earth science/physical geography (mostly). We had social studies before that (gradewise) which did everything although religions were not really taught (I hated it: that one term spent learning about the black plague was a time-waster imo).

I think in that case the corresponding assignment would be for someone to draw a Mary statue/ color a stained glass window.
If it is only to 'show calligraphy is hard' ok it is a stupid assignment. I however could see a test on the subject including a question such as "how are mosques decorated?", and the simple act of having tried calligraphy would aid some students in recalling the information.

I'm a hands on learner - so things like that although they seem silly, help me retain information. There was nothing worse for me than having to learn a what color different chemicals would form and if they would precipitate without being able to experiment with them.
 

It was not the whole assignment. Just one "question" on what looks to be a longer assignment. 

[OnceUponATime]

I do understand that it is only a question as part of a greater whole. I do think if the only reason they included that exercise is to show that calligraphy is hard that it is a bit stupid and a timewaste. If the overwhelming perception in the class is that the decorations are just random scribbles that could be made by children then I could understand an exercise like that might be done to help create some perspective. Seeing as this exercise is part of a handout not designed by the teacher, I'm going to assume that it's not done to correct the perception of the class.
I do believe/hope that the exercise is done for more than just showing calligraphy is hard.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

22 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

Again, this is where it's an issue of state standards and curriculum, not an individual teacher.

The articles state that the intent is to allow students to experience various aspects, rather than hear and absorb.  So they touch and handle a Quran, they can try on a hijab, they copy some Arabic script . . . . it's designed to engage the student, rather than present rote information and expect retention.  Depending on the system and access, it wouldn't be unusual to invite an immigrant in to talk about the particular culture.

To make a fair comparison, I'd be really interested to know what they did for Christianity and Judaism, and what is planned for the other regions.

First bolded:  

Quote

The district defended the assignment but admitted that a less controversial phrase would be used in future assignments

The state curriculum isn't at issue, for me anyway, what they were to write wasn't mandated by the state.  For anyone to not anticipate that choosing this particular line would call into question either her motives or her judgement ...I find it hard to imagine anyone not being able to foresee this response.

Second bolded:

Sure, and if they wanted to do that it's fine - pointless IMO but fine.

The line they needed to copy was:

Quote

"There is no other God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger."

This is not about Islam...people have gone to court in this country so kids weren't forced to say the pledge or to leave out the "under God" part if they did say it.  And I completely agree with that - no one should be forced to say those things because the school says so, if they don't believe them.  I don't see how this is different.  If someone were teaching ESL would anyone think it appropriate to have them write out  "There is one holy catholic and apostolic church" or "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life" to see how hard it is to write English?  

I think if the latter happened people would be justifiably incredulous that they couldn't come up with one other line in all of English speaking text which isn't a declarative statement of belief.  Even in a lesson about religion I have no doubt there is something innocuous in the Quran about being good to your neighbor, giving to charity, whatever...that most people wouldn't find objectionable.

 

 

 

 

 

[PregnantPornStar]

Just now, louisa05 said:

One of those links has a screenshot of the assignment in question. The kids were asked to attempt to copy one line of Arabic calligraphy and it was stated that the point was to understand that it is very difficult to learn and write. She was not teaching them to write calligraphy and it was not a "useless time filler". It appears to be one item on a larger assignment related to the topic. The attempt would help kids understand what she asked them to understand and I doubt, due to the phrasing of the instruction, that it would have been graded for accuracy. 

Mileage varies - I think it's a ridiculous assignment.  Wedding calligraphy is hard to write too, if my kids had been told to write a line of the Lord's Prayer in it to see that it was hard to write even as a Catholic I'd be pissed at the content and the point of the assignment. 

 

I don't care if it is Hebrew, Arabic or what have you. Kids should not be forced to write a statement of faith in a public school. Ever. To me, that is no different than mandatory prayer.

The reasoning behind it is honestly not good reasoning. If it had been a different Arabic phrase that wasn't a statement of faith, fine (although I would still suggest it is pointless. Maybe extra credit?) but a statement of faith. No.

To me, calligraphy seems best suited for art class...it can be discussed elsewhere, but you can tell kids it is hard without forcing them to write out a statement of faith.

The whole district closing is too much. In fact, it almost seems to undermine parents being upset because now they look like jerks who "forced" a school district to shut down...

I am not suggesting kids shouldn't learn about religion in school, but it needs to be done in an objective way. Not by having kids write a statement of faith.

As a parent, I know much of what my kids curriculums are, but I don't know all assignment details ahead of time. I doubt most parents do...

There really isn't a good way to justify this. We all get that the kids weren't told what it said and that it was apparently used to teach how hard it was, but another phrase could have been used.

[samurai_sarah]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

(snip)

This is not about Islam...people have gone to court in this country so kids weren't forced to say the pledge or to leave out the "under God" part if they did say it.  And I completely agree with that - no one should be forced to say those things because the school says so, if they don't believe them.  I don't see how this is different.  If someone were teaching ESL would anyone think it appropriate to have them write out  "There is one holy catholic and apostolic church" or "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life" to see how hard it is to write English?  

I think if the latter happened people would be justifiably incredulous that they couldn't come up with one other line in all of English speaking text which isn't a declarative statement of belief.  Even in a lesson about religion I have no doubt there is something innocuous in the Quran about being good to your neighbor, giving to charity, whatever...that most people wouldn't find objectionable.

 

I think the entire situation could have been handled in a better way. When teaching human geography, as compared to "normal" geography, it is pretty impossible to get around talking about religion. But if the object was merely to show calligraphy, then there was no need to pick a religious text.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, samurai_sarah said:

I think the entire situation could have been handled in a better way. When teaching human geography, as compared to "normal" geography, it is pretty impossible to get around talking about religion. But if the object was merely to show calligraphy, then there was no need to pick a religious text.

I'm not arguing religion shouldn't be taught - it affects so many aspects of culture and often even political systems.  It has to be taught in a factual and objective way.  

But I can't imagine any instance where requiring kids to write (or recite) any statement of faith or ideology, whether it's this line or the pledge, adds to their education on the subject.  

 

[samurai_sarah]

15 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm not arguing religion shouldn't be taught - it affects so many aspects of culture and often even political systems.  It has to be taught in a factual and objective way.  

But I can't imagine any instance where requiring kids to write (or recite) any statement of faith or ideology, whether it's this line or the pledge, adds to their education on the subject.  

 

Religion, culture, history and politics all intersect, and need to be taught. While I think that human geography cannot do without teaching these things, I believe that this assignment could have been dealt with differently.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Here is the school district's statement:

Statement from Augusta County Public Schools:

Augusta County Schools and all administrative offices will be closed Friday, December 18, 2015.

Following parental objections to the World Geography curriculum and ensuing related media coverage, the school division began receiving voluminous phone calls and electronic mail locally and from outside the area. As a result of those communications, the Sheriff's Office and the school division coordinated to increase police presence at Augusta County schools and to monitor those communications. The communications have significantly increased in volume today and based on concerns regarding the tone and content of those communications, Sheriff Fisher and Dr. Bond mutually decided schools and school offices will be closed on Friday, December 18, 2015. While there has been no specific threat of harm to students, schools and school offices will be closed Friday, December 18, 2015. All extra-curricular activities are likewise cancelled for tonight, Thursday, December 17, through the weekend. We regret having to take this action, but we are doing so based on the recommendations of law enforcement and the Augusta County School Board out of an abundance of caution.

Finally, the Augusta County School Board and Dr. Bond appreciate parents bringing concerns directly to our attention, and a constructive and respectful dialogue between school and community is always welcome. As we have emphasized, no lesson was designed to promote a religious viewpoint or change any student's religious belief. Although students will continue to learn about world religions as required by the state Board of Education and the Commonwealth's Standards of Learning, a different, non-religious sample of Arabic calligraphy will be used in the future.

Please note, in periods of inclement weather, you should "refresh" this screen periodically for the latest postings of delays and closures.

Emphasis added.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/30780272/controversial-assignment-reactions-prompt-augusta-co-schools-to-close

[Catey]

We just went through a big bunch of crap in our district over some curriculum that was being taught.

Not Religious at all, sex ed. More to the point it was about the LGBT community through the lens of inclusion and acceptance for people and their differences.

We had protests and lots of really heated things happened.

It was the people that disagreed on Religious grounds that were the loudest and had the ugliest things to say.

Instead of the schools closing down the parents just pulled their kids out of the classes, up to 40% of the kids were out in some areas.

It seems that schools are really trying to teach things that will raise children to be more exposed and informed on people and their differences. I really get that parents have the right to have a huge say in what their children are exposed to but I sometimes wonder if the kids even really care all that much any more than they care about some other things that they have to learn.

I think that " Although students will continue to learn about world religions as required by the state Board of Education and the Commonwealth's Standards of Learning, a different, non-religious sample of Arabic calligraphy will be used in the future. " sounds like a decent enough compromise to me.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Here's another piece with a lot of interesting analysis.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/augusta-county-virginia-schools-arabic/421194/

This is the point that is really making me think.  It is information I was not previously aware of:

 

Quote

 

Arabic calligraphy is of world-religion interest specifically because it is Islamic. Because Arabic is the language of the Qur’an, it has attained an exalted place in Islam throughout the world, well beyond Arabic-speaking countries. And because many forms of Islam prohibit or discourage figurative imagery, elaborate, beautiful, and highly stylized calligraphic artwork using Qur’anic phrases is a staple wherever Muslims are, around the world. Islamic art is a major chunk of world art, and while it’s inextricable from religion, it’s also a larger, civilizational thing than mere devotion. Using a secular Arabic phrase glosses over all that context.

Think about it this way: Would someone try to teach a class on Western art while excising Christian art as indoctrination? Of course not—in part because they’d have very little to work with in the centuries between Constantine’s conversion and the Renaissance. 

 

[violynn]

You all have covered this very well already.  My only input would be that the teacher simply should have chosen different text to write out in calligraphy.  She was unbelievably naive to believe that statement wasn't going to bring about protest, sadly.  

If it had been a comparative religions class and all the major religions 'mission statements' had been quoted together, perhaps it would have worked.  Expecting it to go any way other than it did in this climate and the state of the school was disingenious.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

4 minutes ago, violynnkelly said:

You all have covered this very well already.  My only input would be that the teacher simply should have chosen different text to write out in calligraphy.  She was unbelievably naive to believe that statement wasn't going to bring about protest, sadly.  

If it had been a comparative religions class and all the major religions 'mission statements' had been quoted together, perhaps it would have worked.  Expecting it to go any way other than it did in this climate and the state of the school was disingenious.

Just want to reiterate - this was NOT individual teacher-prepared material.  It was from material provided to her.

[samurai_sarah]

1 minute ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

Just want to reiterate - this was NOT individual teacher-prepared material.  It was from material provided to her.

I must have missed this bit of info before. Thank you for making that clear!

[violynn]

So is she saying she didn't know what the calligraphy stated?  

My daughter teaches 7th grade and while discussing this, she said yes teachers often have to teach very specific things, but should always be aware of what the content is and bring it up to admin if they realize something is going to be problematic.  This is in KY, another Southern state hotbed of religious ibtolerance.  Ofc, it may not be that way in VA.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Here is the most detailed local information I could find:

The calligraphy assignment came from a workbook created by teachers called "World Religions." It was not an assignment LaPorte made up herself. The instructions for the assignment said, "Here is the shahada, the Islamic statement of faith, written in Arabic. In the space below, try copying it by hand. This should give you an idea of the artistic complexity of calligraphy."

When The News Leader reached out to LaPorte for comment, she said her job now was getting her students through their Standards of Learning tests.

http://www.newsleader.com/story/news/local/2015/12/17/riverheads-high-school-follow-up/77483594/

As the Atlantic article I posted up page pointed out, it has probably been used multiple times in multiple settings.  It was not about the text, it was about the artistic interpretation.

Edited to add:

I am looking for more information, but if I have found the correct information, calling it "teacher created" is a bit misleading - it's published by a company with that title . . . . 

https://www.teachercreated.com/products/world-religions-0624

Here's a table of contents:

https://cdn.teachercreated.com/samples/0624s.pdf

[violynn]

Eh, at the end of the day it was about intolerance, Christian persecution complex and Trump-fueled hysteria.  

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Two more points of information:  This book was published (best I can find) in 1995 for grades 6-8.

Depending upon its distribution, that means this assignment has been made hundreds of times before.

Here's a cleaner copy of the actual text:

[Rachel333]

I do agree that it wasn't appropriate to have children write out that particular phrase. I know that no matter what there would be someone who would find a reason to get upset about anything related to Islam, but I think it would have been better if a different phrase was used.

[Arete]

I would have been one of those parents that flipped their shit if I found out that my kids had written out the Islamic Confession of Faith.   Words have meaning.  THOSE words have meaning.  All it takes to convert to Islam is to recite the confession of faith.  That's it.  So don't tell people they are overreacting.     People have been hurt or killed  in the past if they did not recite that statement and renounce their former religions.   That teacher could have used any line of the epic Arabic poetry that has been produced, but she chose the Statement of Faith.   She managed to disrespect everyone in this.

Words have meaning.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

30 minutes ago, AreteJo said:

I would have been one of those parents that flipped their shit if I found out that my kids had written out the Islamic Confession of Faith.   Words have meaning.  THOSE words have meaning.  All it takes to convert to Islam is to recite the confession of faith.  That's it.  So don't tell people they are overreacting.     People have been hurt or killed  in the past if they did not recite that statement and renounce their former religions.   That teacher could have used any line of the epic Arabic poetry that has been produced, but she chose the Statement of Faith.   She managed to disrespect everyone in this.

Words have meaning.

 

I didn't know that about the conversion thing and of course the kids aren't converted from writing it as an assignment...but it speaks to the principle that yes - words have meaning.  Oaths and declarations have meaning.

I do think there would be some people upset because of exposure to Islam, and I'm sure there is some bigotry at play in some of the responses which isn't okay - but not all.  I'm not a bigot but I wouldn't have been okay with my kids doing that assignment either and I'd have absolutely lodged a complaint.  I don't think the outrage is an overreaction, as long as it's civil, no threatening, and going through proper channels.

The article stated there had been no threats, it was a premptive response on the part of the school.  

Reading upthread that it wasn't the teacher's call but a pre planned handout my objections remain the same but directed at whomever okayed this curriculum.  

I am trying to see the other side of this, and I have read all the posts with an open mind but I just cannot see how it's anything but a complete lack of respect to assign kids the task of writing a statement of faith, which in some cases is disavowing their own beliefs (or lack thereof) in action if not in intent.

Bigotry exists and that's an ugly fact of life, but it doesn't negate the legitimate objections in this case.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just to add the article did say there were no specific threats against the children, but on a second read it said some were calling for the teachers head in a stake and they closed school due to the tone and contents of the messages.

Not knowing the content of the messages no way to know if it was s good call erring in the side of caution or not.  But parents who would even think threats are the way to handle any dispute have bigger problems than an assignment they should have just told their kids to ignore and address the issue through due process.

 

 

[Mercer]

I think it's important for kids to learn about major world religions, and I would have no issue with my hypothetical kids being asked to do a calligraphy assignment using a piece of religious text from any religion if that was the best fit for learning about the culture they were studying.

That said, I'm uncomfortable with this assignment because the shahada is an extremely meaningful declaration in the Islamic faith, which I do not share but which I do respect. I feel like using it as basically a copying assignment by people for whom it doesn't have personal meaning does not show proper respect.

I'm not worried that writing it will indoctrinate students. Actually quite the opposite - I'm worried that treating it as nothing more than a pretty religious phrase to do a calligraphy sample of divorces it so much from context that the students miss out on gaining an understanding of why it's so important to many people.