The European Refugee Crisis - MERGED

[sawasdee]

Ah, I see!

A good thing to start is maybe with mapping out what benefits refugees (claimers and positively processed ones) really get in the UK. There are probably alot of fantasy numbers floating around.

Oh there are! But try to get the real figures published in a mass circulation newspaper...

[freejingerbeth]

What does everyone think about what happened in Hungary, today? The response from Germany was troubling.

[prayawaythefundie]

What does everyone think about what happened in Hungary, today? The response from Germany was troubling.

I might be biased but I thought Orban's statement was the troubling one. The refugee crisis is now a German problem, not a European one? I totally get that Hungary is overwhelmed with the numbers of refugees entering their country and I agree that the Dublin regulation should be kicked because it's unfair to the countries having EU external borders. I think we desperately need quotas per EVERY EU country. Our government is pushing for that (Took them way to long, mind you.) and I'm willing to take our share which has to be a big one - no question since we are a big country and have a strong econmy. However, other big and strong countries cannot just sit there and complain about all the refugess while not reallly taking any in. Everyone will have to accept their share and CARE for these people like they ARE people!

Hate to be a pessimist but if we don't find a fair solution and find it quick, the Schengen Agreement might be discontinued.

[jaelh]

XJD - I was writing a reply but see Anny has more or less covered what I was going to say. We had similar processing of Bosnian refugees here, and a decent % stayed. I don't think it's necessarily as inhibiting as you suggest, though done poorly it could be.

Also, given the size the the crisis and the politics - perhaps I am too pragmatic, and I'm throwing out the long term for the short, but if hundreds of people, possibly millions by the time this is done, need to flee their homes; surely getting that done at scale is fundamental. Dog forbid the result is more enormous camps of stateless people, all over the place. If a period of progression towards citizenship is part of facilitating this process, is it better or worse than the current situation? I realise it's less than ideal.

Or that refugees are relying on the random kindness of strangers to house them and feed them. Which is great, until the individual impulse runs dry.

Obviously, a peaceful resolution in Syria is the ideal solution, especially since so many thousands are dying and won't be able to get to a place where they can safely claim refugee status.

This. We really need to move the point to where people can claim status a heck of a lot closer to the conflict. And then process people out of there, promptly.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Thanks for the responses.

Yes, different systems work in different ways.

In Canada, for example, once you claim refugee status, you are safe from deportation until the claim is processed. There is a faster process to reject claimants from "safe" countries. While the claim is being determined, though, a claimant has no permanent status and no permission to work. In most cases, once someone is determined to be a genuine refugee, they are granted permanent residence. Once someone has spent 1,460 days during the preceding 6 years in Canada as a permanent resident, they can apply for citizenship and gain the right to a Canadian passport and the right to vote. Dual citizenship is permitted, so no rights are lost.

20 years ago, when we had a flood of Somali refugees, many ended up in administrative limbo because they had no documentation and there was no way to obtain it. Yes, they were physically safe and Canada wasn't deporting them, but they couldn't get their permanent residence applications processed. There was a fear that warlords would try to gain refugee status and that without the ability to check documentation, there was no way to screen them out. The result was a huge community that was utterly disempowered and lacking in rights. This site summarizes the problems they faced: http://ccrweb.ca/en/refugees-limbo-human-rights-issue

[jaelh]

JD - agree that no working rights/no welfare support during processing doesn't make sense. People shouldn't have to depend on the welfare of others. Or, at the very least, there should be an indicate initial processing time (say, 6 - 12 weeks) after which anyone who hadn't received an initial decision should be entitled to work, with an opportunity to transition to a longer term formal immigration status. The limbo thing is dreadful.

fwiw: the temporary asylum model that was put in place in several countries during the Balkans conflict was to deal those affected by the specific crisis. I think there was a fear in Europe that what is presently happening with Syria was going to happen then. I don't know how the Austrian program runs now, but for most states involved, it was a very specific form of protection, for specific people, for a specific time. Not some permanent watering down of obligations.

What to do with people who are found not to be refugees, but cannot be deported is also a huge problem. Years ago I was friends with a young man from a minority community in Kuwait. After his application was refused, he spent 5 years of his 20s in immigration detention, as he automatically lost his Kuwaiti citizenship when he claimed asylum and couldn't be deported back there. If he could have been, he would have been deported against his will. As it was, he was offered payments to accepted deportation to Lebanon, which would have meant remaining stateless. He was locked up in a remote detention centre until he received a writ of habeas corpus. He's now a citizen.

Following the appalling trajectory of how asylum seekers in Australia are treated, this 'escape of last resort' was lost, because the HC determined that the detention wasn't punitive, it was to facilitate an administrative purpose and was thus lawful. I cannot even.. It's just horrific.

So yeah. Limbo = awful. No question. Am not suggesting an indefinite limbo, not for a moment. Sorry if it sounded that way!

[freejingerbeth]

I might be biased but I thought Orban's statement was the troubling one. The refugee crisis is now a German problem, not a European one? I totally get that Hungary is overwhelmed with the numbers of refugees entering their country and I agree that the Dublin regulation should be kicked because it's unfair to the countries having EU external borders. I think we desperately need quotas per EVERY EU country. Our government is pushing for that (Took them way to long, mind you.) and I'm willing to take our share which has to be a big one - no question since we are a big country and have a strong econmy. However, other big and strong countries cannot just sit there and complain about all the refugess while not reallly taking any in. Everyone will have to accept their share and CARE for these people like they ARE people!

Hate to be a pessimist but if we don't find a fair solution and find it quick, the Schengen Agreement might be discontinued.

Sorry. I was listening to NPR, yesterday, so that's where I got my information from. I thought Germany responded by saying the refugees were not a German problem. I did not hear a response from Obama. I know a few days ago, he praised Germany's handling of the situation. What I don't understand, and have been trying to research, is why Hungary is refusing to let the people continue to Austria or Germany, by train, when clearly, Hungary doesn't want them? I am glad that a few of our senators are pushing for the US to take more refugees, as well.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

This is a global crisis that has characteristics of both emergency and longstanding

never solved problem. So , IMHO, we should not only devise good immediate solutions for refugees but also start ASAP to work on solving the problems that are causing this desperate situation. When we will truly devise effective ways to deal with the world's inequality, when we'll stop selling arms to Is, boko haram and all the others, when we will finally condone the debts of countries that persisting the present conditions will never be able to pay back, when we will stop exploiting poor countries resources in exchange for nothing or, worse, feeding their corrupt governments and bureaucracy with bribes to go on undisturbed with our exploitation, then the migrants/refugees problem will really be solved. Since I don't see any of this steps are taken I think we are only at the beginning of very dire times. Africa is big and is suffering greatly and is full of potential migrants/refugees. I refuse to think in terms of refugees only crisis because the greatest part of those who land on our shores are economic migrants who are escaping from starvation, lack of instruction, lack of work, lack of a possibility to build their future and even if they don't have refugees rights they present a very big problem that we are totally refusing to see.

I have to add that it's already happened what I feared. A migrant from Cote d'Ivoire resident in a centre for those in the process to aquire refugee status, allegedly murdered an elderly couple living in Palagonia (Catania, Sicily) to rob them some hundred euros. The obvious backlash is terrible and characterised by the worst ignorance. However we cannot lightly dismiss the concerns for public safety because when you keep people in a limbo for long time you foster criminal behaviours.

[Anny Nym]

Sorry. I was listening to NPR, yesterday, so that's where I got my information from. I thought Germany responded by saying the refugees were not a German problem. I did not hear a response from Obama. I know a few days ago, he praised Germany's handling of the situation. What I don't understand, and have been trying to research, is why Hungary is refusing to let the people continue to Austria or Germany, by train, when clearly, Hungary doesn't want them? I am glad that a few of our senators are pushing for the US to take more refugees, as well.

@freejingerbeth, this has to do with the so called "Dublin Regulation". The Dublin regulations regulate the EU-wide process for asylum- claimers. It says a Asylum Seeker has to file his claim at the first EU-country he sets foot on. In most cases, this would be either Italy, Greece or Hungary.

Italy has it´s own immense problems with the Dublinregs. caused by being the first country a AS arrives when travelling by boat from Africa (Lybia) to Lampedusa.

Greece is due it´s current devastating situation unable to register -and let alone to administrate - the vast influx of AS arriving at the isles (Kos, Lesbos,...)

And now Hungary: Sharing a border with non-EU-country Serbia, where most AS crossing the border to Hungary, it is _theoretically_ reponsible to a) take in and proceed all AS claims b) sent back the AS coming on this way from Greece, because Greece as a EU country is ALSO responsible to register and proceed all AS.

b) is not working at all for the obvious reasons.

a) is not working either, because refugees, the war refugees and the economic refugees, don´t want to stay in Hungary (this has a myriad of reasons and need to be discussed/explained on its own - I disgress, sorry).

So until recently Hungary was a pure so-called transit country to Germany, Austria, Sweden ( the "top destinations") and other EU-countries, not practising EU-law and let them more or less go through.

BUT NOW Brussels (Juncker) as well as well as other EU politicans are seriously pressuring Hungary to stick to the law and keep the refugees! So they are doing this... more or less sucessfully.

That is why the trains yesterday didn´t go to Austria/Germany and that is also the reason why the hungarian authorities try to keep refugees in their refugee camps.

Honestly, Hungary is quite between a rock and a hard place here. No matter how they do it, they are getting flak from Brussels, Germany and *sigh* the austrian councellor (the _current_ councellor, we will most likely have new votes faster than you could say the word Grüßaugust)

while none of them offering ANY solutions to Hungary (or Greece, or Italy) I have to add! They almost literally told Hungary " Well we don´t have any solutions either for you, but stop what you are doing and do what we want - which we don´t know yet what we actually want! But do the other thing too, no - stop it, now do it again...!"

That´s incompetence to the max!

Meanwhile we are having factual border controls between Italy/South Tyrol/Austria again.

(edited for grammar)

[freejingerbeth]

@freejingerbeth, this has to do with the so called "Dublin Regulation". The Dublin regulations regulate the EU-wide process for asylum- claimers. It says a Asylum Seeker has to file his claim at the first EU-country he sets foot on. In most cases, this would be either Italy, Greece or Hungary.

Italy has it´s own immense problems with the Dublinregs. caused by being the first country a AS arrives when travelling by boat from Africa (Lybia) to Lampedusa.

Greece is due it´s current devastating situation unable to register -and let alone to administrate - the vast influx of AS arriving at the isles (Kos, Lesbos,...)

And now Hungary: Sharing a border with non-EU-country Serbia, where most AS crossing the border to Hungary, it is _theoretically_ reponsible to a) take in and proceed all AS claims b) sent back the AS coming on this way from Greece, because Greece as a EU country is ALSO responsible to register and proceed all AS.

b) is not working at all for the obvious reasons.

a) is not working either, because refugees, the war refugees and the economic refugees, don´t want to stay in Hungary (this has a myriad of reasons and need to be discussed/explained on its own - I disgress, sorry).

So until recently Hungary was a pure so-called transit country to Germany, Austria, Sweden ( the "top destinations") and other EU-countries, not practising EU-law and let them more or less go through.

BUT NOW Brussels (Juncker) as well as well as other EU politicans are seriously pressuring Hungary to stick to the law and keep the refugees! So they are doing this... more or less sucessfully.

That is why the trains yesterday didn´t go to Austria/Germany and that is also the reason why the hungarian authorities try to keep refugees in their refugee camps.

Honestly, Hungary is quite between a rock and a hard place here. No matter how they do it, they are getting flak from Brussels, Germany and *sigh* the austrian councellor (the _current_ councellor, we will most likely have new votes faster than you could say the word Grüßaugust)

while none of them offering ANY solutions to Hungary (or Greece, or Italy) I have to add! They almost literally told Hungary " Well we don´t have any solutions either for you, but stop what you are doing and do what we want - which we don´t know yet what we actually want! But do the other thing too, no - stop it, now do it again...!"

That´s incompetence to the max!

Meanwhile we are having factual border controls between Italy/South Tyrol/Austria again.

(edited for grammar)

Good Lord! What a mess! Thank you for all of the information. Wouldn't it be more expensive, though, to return refugees that are already living in Sweden and Germany, etc.? That seems dumb. Also, since the US helped to create this mess, I believe that we should welcome more than just 1,700 refugees, into our own country. As for Australia's response, I don't even know what to say. It's disgusting.

[Arete]

I hate the fact that some Republicans here hold up Australia's way of handling it as something the US should aspire to and learn from. Makes me rage.

I don't have a lot of great solutions, but don't think anyone can go wrong never losing site of the fact these are Human Beings, and not yesterday's garbage.

[freejingerbeth]

I hate the fact that some Republicans here hold up Australia's way of handling it as something the US should aspire to and learn from. Makes me rage.

I don't have a lot of great solutions, but don't think anyone can go wrong never losing site of the fact these are Human Beings, and not yesterday's garbage.

Amen! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Geechee Girl]

I heard a a blurb on the radio this morning about the possible purchase of a Greek Isle for the refugees. I assumed it was a deejay making a wisecrack. Forbes has run the story so I reckon this has been confirmed: http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongns ... -refugees/

Is this even a viable option? Have any of the oil-rich offered to accept refugees?

[jaelh]

I hate the fact that some Republicans here hold up Australia's way of handling it as something the US should aspire to and learn from. Makes me rage.

I don't have a lot of great solutions, but don't think anyone can go wrong never losing site of the fact these are Human Beings, and not yesterday's garbage.

Oh it's monstrous.

And people say it's a "solution", it's only a "solution" for the "receiving" country. There is a whole other problem that's being ignored. The Australian system is awful, dreadful, monstrous.

And FFS, all horrendus-ness aside, if people haven't noticed,australia is a hell of a long way from most other countries. This isn't Europe, or the States, with common borders and short(er) boat trips. Geography ain't no small part of why that particular piece of awfulness "works".

So , IMHO, we should not only devise good immediate solutions for refugees but also start ASAP to work on solving the problems that are causing this desperate situation. When we will truly devise effective ways to deal with the world's inequality, when we'll stop selling arms to Is, boko haram and all the others, when we will finally condone the debts of countries that persisting the present conditions will never be able to pay back, when we will stop exploiting poor countries resources in exchange for nothing or, worse, feeding their corrupt governments and bureaucracy with bribes to go on undisturbed with our exploitation, then the migrants/refugees problem will really be solved. Since I don't see any of this steps are taken I think we are only at the beginning of very dire times.

laPapessaGiovanna, I think you're touching on something. And you're right this is about far more than just refugees. I have a whole separate rant about how the refugee convention is Way Too Narrow, but I talk too much and I'll spare you that wall of text.

However I want to add that, beyond the above, potential outcomes of climate change include (a partial list) :

substantial desertification in Africa.

disruption to crops

further reduction in fish stocks

reduced freshwater supplies (just think about asia if/when the himalayas caps are gone!)

sea level rise will push hundreds of millions back from the coast

more and more days over 40, 50 C.

and so on.

Even if every debt in the world was cancelled tomorrow, every weapon wasn't sold, everyone was equal - the states that are poor now are most likely to suffer the worse effects of the climate over the next century or two. It's not just their financial situation - the equatorial belt is going to be hard, hard hit. There will be resource conflicts. There will be people who can no longer remain on non-productive land. There will be people in desperate search of a better life.

How are we going to deal with those migrations?

We're not going to stop massive movements of people by stopping selling weapons, and being just. We should be doing that, because it's right and it'll help. But I cannot say this enough - if we don't start thinking about how we deal with massive movements of people over next decades and centuries, we're fools, and leaving our children an awful, awful task.

Actually, sometimes I think conservative, rich countries are so myopic on migrants and climate change that maybe the Fear of the Impending Masses will get them to do something about the climate. But even that, I'm not holding my breath.

How did we get to this place where policy runs in 2 week cycles?

Geechee - none of the oil states are signatories to to the refugee convention. In Asia, only Cambodia is. There is a reason that people are going to Europe.

[bekahdimples]

So much information. I'm wondering lots of things

It seems like in the end Germany is taking most of them and I've seen Austria and UK and Italy and hungry and grease talked about but there are a lot of counties missing from what I'm reading.... I think someone mentioned that one country doesn't currently view any place as needing asylum like all safe or whatever. Is that a popular thing?

[prayawaythefundie]

Sorry. I was listening to NPR, yesterday, so that's where I got my information from. I thought Germany responded by saying the refugees were not a German problem. I did not hear a response from Obama. I know a few days ago, he praised Germany's handling of the situation. What I don't understand, and have been trying to research, is why Hungary is refusing to let the people continue to Austria or Germany, by train, when clearly, Hungary doesn't want them? I am glad that a few of our senators are pushing for the US to take more refugees, as well.

Orban is Hungary's president. According to the Dublin Regulation Hungary is obligated to register and care for all the refugees entering the EU via Hungary's external borders. That is current law. Now by letting thousands of refugees travel to Austria and Germany without registering them in Hungary, they are technically breaking EU law. I do understand that their situaiton is desperate though. That is why Hungary let about 3000 refugees travel against EU law. Most of them ended up in Munich, Germany and have been registered here. They are now Germany's refugees by fact when they would haven been Hungary's by law. Knowing the situation in Hungary that is understandable but since that is the number of people hat came in only ONE NIGHT, it is also understandable why the German government did remind the Hungarian one about their duties (Orban said something about the refugees being a German problem, not a European one and Germany would have to stop giving refugees so much money because that's why they all want to go to Germany :wtf: ). You see, making Hungary care for all the refugees just because they have an external border is not fair, making Germany care for all the refugees because that's where they want to go can't be a solution eihter. Germany can take care for many refugess but not for all of them. Other big countries need to step in. If the US are willing to take in refugees I'm fine with that but I feel there are other big EU countires with an obligation first.

[Anny Nym]

(Orban said something about the refugees being a German problem, not a European one and Germany would have to stop giving refugees so much money because that's why they all want to go to Germany

@prayawaythefundie

I have read that quite some EU- and non-EU politicians making this claim recently. There was even a article in the FAZ (usually a respectable news source, AFAIK) targeting this in regard of the West Balkan Asylum Seekers.

Why is that, do they forget to take some factors in mind? Which ones?

I´m curious, how much money/basic care do Asylum Seekers REALLY get in Germany? Because fantasy numbers - like "AS get 100 gazilliobillions a month plus a free jet ski" - floating around are a main pet peeve of me.

@othereuropeanFJers How is this regulated in your respective countries? UK, Italy, Sweden?

And how is the stuation for AS in the USA and Canada?

For comparison, I´ll start (put under spoiler because lottatext. You have been warned :D ):

In Austria, we have for Asylum Seekers the commonly-called "Sachleistungsprinzip"/" principle of benefits in kind".

This means the care providers of AS get paid directly. This is to channel benefits into the direction where they are needed most. Asylum Clams are - in comparison to other countries- relatively fast processed. For secure 3rd states/ Dublin cases e.g. its ~ 2 weeks.

A AS who made his/her claim gets free board and room in a first-placement center or a federal state quarter until their claim is either processed negative or positive. also basic medical care and units for a translator.

Board and room could also be provided by private persons /NGOs. The provider gets 21 Euros per head and has to pay the monthly pocket money from this money and should ideally help the AS a bit to get around and so on.

Pocket money:

For personal spendings a AS/person gets fourty euros a month (personal spendings are public transport tickets, phone cards, hygiene utensils, etc). Minors get half.

Plus 150 euros per year in vouchers for Caritas shops to get clothes or a pair of shoes.

For a school-aged child (all children have to be schooled in Austria, including AS), the respective school gets 200 euros a year per child. With this money the school , usually the class teacher and/or the PTA head, buys necessary school utensils for the AS child, pays for field trips, library cards, etc..

_

After a AS is positively processed, the person is eligible for basic welfare. Basic welfare in Austria is tied to the person actively seeking a job, taking given jobs, participating in state programs and could get revoked it the recipient is unwilling. No welfare is "for sitting at home". Some people often tell that wrongly, I hate that.

Due to the current refugee influx caused by the humanitarian crisis, in October there will - most likely - be according to S. Kurz some changes to channel benefits for positively processed refugees better, to help them to get better integrated and to get a job and off welfare ASAP. This means the Sachleistungsprinzip would be extended to the pp refugees too, to make sure ALL will be able to join german language courses, traumatized children and adults get psychological treatment insted of having them seek it on their own, more social workers at the state jobcenter to help them to apply for a job, mandatory schooling for non minor teens, state programs to not having them forced to sit around all and wait if they don´t find a job, etc...

Some numbers about asylum claims in Austria, minister Kurz said to the news yesterday, we have around 9.000 positive acclaimed refugees per end of August. Total claims made where ca. 37.000.

That´s a huge number of people who need integration, that why the changes above are important.

I am really curious how Germany is going to handle the situation in the future.

You probably have about heard the "refugee trail" from Budapest/Hungary to Germany via Austria currently happening?

I just checked the newsticker at austrian medias, it´s 3000 people. Austria opened the borders last night/this morning (we currently have border controls in east Austria) and let the refugees through, the first ones already boarded trains from Vienna to Munich via Salzburg.

On other news, I heard the USA is not very eager to take refugees.....?

[nelliebelle1197]

How does granting a refugee citizenship prevent them from dreaming of a return to their country of origin, or actually returning there if conditions were to allow it in the future? There's also more to maintaining roots than physically returning to the country. I know many communities where there are strong communal ties, but also a recognition that no true return home would be possible - the original community is no longer in that country, and the political situation is unlikely to change.

jaelh's suggestion was a temporary asylum, allowing up to 10 years to see if a return was possible. That would mean that true settlement for the refugees would be virtually impossible. Would you invest in a business, knowing that you only had temporary papers to stay in the country? Would any bank lend you money to do so? Would you buy a home, knowing that you didn't have permission to live in it long term? Would you make sure that your kids learned a new language in your country, if you thought that you might need to return at any time? Would an employer hire you for a good job and take the time to train you, knowing that you didn't have permanent status? Would you start university classes, knowing that you might not have permission to stay in the country long enough to complete your degree?

Where the heck are refugees going to get capital to invest in a business, buy a house, etc.? And you should know as a lawyer that if someone is granted temporary status and sets themselves up really well, they will likely be on good footing to apply for permanent residency.

I think you are not stepping into the shoes of these refugees at all. Have you worked with immigrant communities? Typically it is the kids that have the best social services and acclimate for themselves and their parents. You are assuming that they are all fleeing so that they can make new lives in new countries. Maybe they are fleeing to save their lives and want to go home at some point.

We cannot assume anything about why people are fleeing because there as many reasons as refugees. The sad fact is that Europe cannot absorb them all without long term implications for her own people. The US is in a much better position to take a million refugees, except for the fact that our social services are decimated because people like Donald Trump and Mitt Romney don't want to pay their fair share of taxes. It's sick. And of course, the minority of nut ball nativists (yeah, right) are the loudest.

Can't we just all hug it out so people can go home :cry:

[Cleopatra7]

Another thought I had is that we're still having to deal with the after-effects of World War I more than a hundred years after it supposedly ended (I say "supposedly ended" because World War II was basically a continuation of armed hostilities in the European theater after a short break). The dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire led to the creation of these various random countries like Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq for the convenience of the European victors, but had no relation to the social or political situation on the ground. That so many of these countries are now imploding indicates that whatever kind of "order" existed in the post-Ottoman Middle East was always illusory, especially since the "order" usually depended on the existence of a strongman scaring everyone into submission. As others have noted upthread, the situation is only going to get worse as the effects of climate change make many tropical areas uninhabitable. This suggests to me that global justice has to become an imperative, because the only way to end these migrant crises is to make it so these failed states are no longer failing.

[prayawaythefundie]

@ AnnyNym and anyone interested:

So I'm done trying to understand "Asylberwerberleistungsgesetz" (German social welfare law for asylum seekers). It's complicated and it's A LOT! I will try my best to summarize important data here:

First of all, there are the statuses "Asylbewerber" (asylum seeker) and "Asyberechtigter" (person granted asylum). Getting from the first to the second (or being denied the second) can take weeks to years (which is too long, obviously) depending on the complexity of the situation.

Asylum seekers usually live in "Gemeinschaftsunterkünften" (commual occomadations) which are often called "Flüchtingsheime" (refugee homes) in every day's language. There seems to be the possibility of living in private homes under certain circumstances but that does not seem to be the norm. I will go on about the benefits for those in communal accomodations. Germany, like Austria, follwos the "Sachleistungsprinzip" (principle of benefits in kind) to a certain extent: Asylum seekers in communal accomadations directliy receive room and board, as well as clothing and medical treatment (emergencies or painful diseases only). They also receive a certain amount of cash for " persönliche Verbrauchsgüter" (personal commodities). The amount of cash is distributed according to 6 different levels (mainly age groups) with the "Haushaltsvorstand" (level 1, adult head of the household) receiving € 143 a month, their adult spouse (level 2) receiving €129 and a child under the age of 5 (level 6) receiving € 84. For the first 3 months asylum seekers are not permitted to work. After that they may be granted exeptional permission to work (rare cases).

A person who has had their staus of asylum seeker for 15 months is granted higher benefits according to "Analogleistungen" ("analogous benefits"). These benefits are intended to be analagous to those a German citizend would receive as part of "Sozialhilfe" (social welfare). This includes acces to the German system of public health care.

I haven't found what kind of benefits persons granted asylum are entitled to yet but I think it might be social welfare if they can't find a job.

I have never been in a communal accomodation myself but I have a friend who had to spend some time in one as a child. She does not like to speak about it, she will just say "It's not pretty". That was almost twenty years ago and they might have improved but I still don't think there is any resemblance to a hotel (like some extreme right-wingers like to suggest). That friend's story has a happy ending btw - all of her family are German citizens today.

[sawasdee]

Have just been watching the news here in Asia - congratulations,Germany, for humanitarian decisions, and congratulations, to most Germans for how you are reacting to this crisis - especially the citizens of Munchen. Sometimes I am so ashamed to be British.......

[Arete]

I heard a a blurb on the radio this morning about the possible purchase of a Greek Isle for the refugees. I assumed it was a deejay making a wisecrack. Forbes has run the story so I reckon this has been confirmed: http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongns ... -refugees/

Is this even a viable option? Have any of the oil-rich offered to accept refugees?

No, this is not viable. This is some rich asshole getting attention and making what he thinks is clever cranks on air. Some geography background of these Greek islands refugees are going to be resettled on: what makes Greek islands so beautiful is exactly what forces their native populations into merchant mariner and tourism jobs. EXTREMELY LIMITED FRESH WATER SUPPLIES. It also is what keeps a lot of them from being able to produce enough food locally. Even flour has to come from mainland Greece. You cannot settle tens of thousands in geographical areas that do not have adequate supplies of fresh water. Sixty percent of Greece's population live within a 50 kilometer radius of metropolitan Athens. Because the rest of the country is beautiful but cannot sustain normal population numbers without the land having the ability to produce adequate food and water.

That said, Greece needs to take in its share like everyone else. It simply doesn't have enough productive land to stick a quarter of a million people on. What an asshole!

[Geechee Girl]

Thanks for setting that straight, Aretejo. I hadn't considered the lack of resources or available infrastructure for this plan. It would seem a donation to the host nations to process and care for the refugees would be a better use of his money.

[Arete]

I'm sorry, I forgot who asked up thread specifically, but asylum seekers are never popular in the US. There is always the God forbid! fear someone out there may have taken advantage, and we couldn't have that now, could we? :naughty:

I don't know what specific benefits a person is entitled to in the US if they are granted asylum, but I will be able to sleep pretty soundly that no one gets the free house, car, jetskis or manicures from them.

[Geechee Girl]

Aretejo, I learned about this last semester from my sociology class when we watched God Grew Tired of Us. We learned the Sudanese and other refugees granted assylum in the US must reimburse our government for all costs bringing them here.

state.gov/j/prm/releases/sample/181172.htm

10. the legal requirement of each adult refugee to fully repay his or her IOM transportation loan in accordance with the established payment schedule;

They receive housing for only 6 months 60-90 days, but they do get a work visa. Catholic charities and other benevolent groups are the sponsoring agencies. As such, they are required to provide housing, clothing, food and aid in the form employment assistance, U.S. cultural education, etc.

state.gov/j/prm/releases/onepagers/181022.htm

I don't remember the exact documentation info off-hand. I'll post it when I recover it. The Next Door Neighbors Series chronicles the stories of many recent assylum-seekers who've settled Tennessee. There are Somalis, Bhutanese, Sudanese, Egyptians and Kurds.

ndn.wnpt.org/documentaries/

edited for factual info & pertinent links