How Josh and Rebekah (Anna's BIL and sister) broke away

[dawbs]

I think Josh himself said he had a porn addiction. My question was how he defined porn. Was it just looking at naked girls, which I agree is perfectly normal for any teenage boy, or a desire beyond that for the kinky, which in a movie could be construed by just about anyone as porn.

Somehow I think "porn" in Gothardland is as simple as looking at boobies.

I tend to doubt 'porn addiction' in fundie-types.

It's to often a "see, this is my sin that I have conquered" rather than anything 'real'. It's much better to give your testimony and say "I had a porn addiction that I have, through the grace of Jebus, broken" than say 'well, I used to look at internet hotties 3x a day and masturbate at least daily -- I called that an addiction. Now I don't do that because I feel it's wrong'

[CynicMom]

Okay, I'll break it down further in case he reads this:

Hey, Josh! Remember how you state that you went to China and found that although the Christians there had an entirely different culture and perspective they were still Christians? Even though they didn't follow any of the same rules you did except for Love Christ? Remember that? If Loving Christ is all it takes to be a Christian, then you were a Christian from the time you were old enough to make a conscious decision for yourself.

Are you thinking that the Christians in China had something else? Like happiness as evidence of salvation? Then you're perpetuating the same happiness=salvation crap that ATI peddles. Did you know the Christians in China were good because they did good things? Then you're still saying that works=salvation. No different!

How's this for blunt truth: You were a Christian who fell into a depression when you no longer felt joy in serving the Lord. You believe the Holy Spirit gave you a miraculous recovery. Fine. But that doesn't mean that all of your actions up to that point were that of a non-saved person. You do yourself (your theology-arguing, pornography-struggling, Christian-music-listening self) injustice if you can't admit it.

[3 is enough]

I must admit that I am more than a little baffled as to why an ATI/IBLP member from Texas would consider, or even be allowed to go to UNLV. For one, it's a secular school. Two, it's in Las Vegas, AKA Sin City.

I was under the impression that ATI types did not go to university, unless it was a Christian school, preferably within commuting distance.

Nothing against UNLV- it's actually a good, though underrated school. My sons go there. It has the number one hospitality school in the world, and the law school is ranked in the top 100, even though it is only 13 years old.

And Las Vegas really is just like any other city once you get away from the Strip, but somehow I can't imagine any Gothard disciple believing that it was anything other than a modern day Sodom.

It just seems like a totally odd choice for a Gothardite.

[tehgoobster]

I must admit that I am more than a little baffled as to why an ATI/IBLP member from Texas would consider, or even be allowed to go to UNLV. For one, it's a secular school. Two, it's in Las Vegas, AKA Sin City.

It just seems like a totally odd choice for a Gothardite.

I think he went there because he was offered a music scholarship.

[3 is enough]

I think he went there because he was offered a music scholarship.

Thank you. That makes sense.

[Joykins]

And I said all that to say this - I still think Josh acts somewhat as a headship in the marriage. It's all he and his wife have known so I'm sure they're going to default to it for a long time. I'm glad they got out of Gothard, but I see some signs of him just substituting with anti-Gothard righteousness.

It could be the first step of leaving the whole patriarchal garbage behind, or it could stay as it is--fundy to fundy-lite. Only time will tell.

As for the porn thing, what I was trying to say that an interest in porn is normal for teenage boys, not that using porn regularly (especially the hardcore stuff) is healthy. Josh says "I believe pornography to be harmful to the mental and psychological state of men." I think porn is really more harmful and exploitative to women. He goes on to say, "However, a healthy attraction to the opposite sex shouldn’t be condemned." and he is 100% right about that. The question for those who deal with teenage boys is how to help them channel all that sexual energy in a healthy way while they are still too young to make reliably good decisions about porn, sex, etc.