What do you all think of Josh's 'porn addiction'?

[nolongerIFBx]

Porn in fundie land is the biggest sin next to homosexuality. Porn in the real world isn't that big of deal. Married people look at porn too. Now an addiction is a different story. If Josh has an addiction he needs professional help. I sure hope someone exposes JimBob and J'chelle

I agree with this. Looking at porn more than once on purpose (not just accidentally seeing the Victoria Secret store when you're in the mall!) would be considered an addiction. While I personally find porn offensive--for reasons like exploitation/objectification of the subjects or that it can set up unreal expectations in one partner so that they would rather watch porn than make love to their less than perfection spouse/partner--I accept that some people don't find it offensive and, in fact, partners may watch it together and find it "inspiring". But in the fundie culture that would still be an addiction.

[December]

Like others have already said, who knows what "porn addiction" constitutes in their fundie definition? It's not necessarily what mainstream society would consider an addiction -- something that interferes with your life, work, family, romantic relationships, etc. Whether or not it's true, this porn addiction claim most importantly seems to be a way to shift the blame. Maybe that's why it got edited out. Because it's got to be Satan or evil pornographers. It can't just be a guy who still hasn't learned self-control who went looking (and paying!) for an affair. It especially can't be that the values with which he was raised aren't necessarily conducive to a healthy relationship and/or sex life as an adult. :roll:

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I think in Josh's case a porn addiction just means he looked at porn and kept looking at porn, because he liked it. To a fundie that shows you are not exercising self-control and are more addicted to sin than to God.

I'd almost feel badly for Josh, if he weren't a child molester. He's clearly unhappy and unsatisfied in his marriage, and probably just wants to be a normal guy, dating women and having sex.

[treemom]

I think that the concept of porn addiction to some fundies may be as simple as watching porn one or more times and enjoying it.

[fundiefan]

I seriously doubt it was true addiction. Fundies love to whine about porn addiction being sin and controlling people and blah, blah, blah. But, in reality, it's not as big a problem as they choose to believe it is. Viewing porn and acting while viewing is not an addiction. Doing so more than once is not an addiction. Doing so weekly is not an addiction. Addiction comes in when other parts of life suffer in order to get off in front of a computer/television screen. Addiction is a real problem, viewing porn on a regular basis is not.But, if they don't claim it's an addiction, they can't whine about evil society and their porn viewing habits. It has to be bigger than it is otherwise, it's nothing.

[DeFrauder]

Yes, I think there is a high chance that he believes he is addicted to porn due to the fundie attitude about it.

I would think that an actual addiction to porn that is considered "clinical" would have to involve NEEDING to view porn on a regular (daily) basis and (like substance abuse), looking at porn that is increasingly "hardcore" or extreme.

Wikipedia outlines types of disordered porn viewing behavior: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_addiction

It also includes this tidbit:

Let me say it again....

Check out the wiki link about how "porn addiction" is defined.

[Eater of Worlds]

I wonder how many other boys/not really men in the Duggar family have issues like this. If anyone had read the blind item about why Josiah's girlfriend broke up their courtship, it was supposedly because she wouldn't do phone sex and something else.

[Aunt Bee]

I think Josh grew up admiring his father and wanting to be like him. We know that jb is a horn dog. If he is dry humping his wife in public while being filmed what is he doing around the house? We also know jb speaks of sex constantly. So what's a kid to do? All the girls/women around him are bundled up like mummy's. So he goes in for a feel or two, that feels good, so he takes the next step, then the next. He marries young and begins to wonder what else and so it goes. And his dad will take no responsibility.

Btw, I think he is a creep.

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

I doubt he was truly addicted. Josh probably viewed it the same amount the average male does. Porn addiction is very real, but like other addictions it ruins your life and cripples a person's ability to adequately live day-to-day. While Josh's life is currently in shambles, this has been happening for years and he kept a steady job and seemed to participate in family gatherings and such. Porn addicts most likely wouldn't be able to live a seemingly normal life because they would have the itch to view porn constantly. Josh is also a fundie and they love to use the porn addiction card to justify their wrongdoing and blame the sexual deviant porn actresses.

Does anyone feel like Jim Bob views porn also? Didn't he mention he used to bring Josh to work when he was younger? Maybe Dim Bulb forgot to close a window or clear the browser history one day and Josh saw it and began looking it up himself. JB is such a horndog, so it not's that far-fetched. He also constantly saw his dad act like a dog in heat towards his mom, so Josh probably assumed hyper sexuality was normal....as long as you are married.

[HuggleMonster]

The fundie dictionary is very different from ours.

After all, they don't view him as a molester when Webster's dictionary definition would class him as one.

I'm trying to remember if one of them said Jinger was addicted to coffee? When in reality I can't ever recall seeing her with a cup aside from that one episode.

So who knows what they would actually class addiction as.

[nastyhobbitses]

I doubt he was truly addicted. Josh probably viewed it the same amount the average male does. Porn addiction is very real, but like other addictions it ruins your life and cripples a person's ability to adequately live day-to-day. While Josh's life is currently in shambles, this has been happening for years and he kept a steady job and seemed to participate in family gatherings and such. Porn addicts most likely wouldn't be able to live a seemingly normal life because they would have the itch to view porn constantly. Josh is also a fundie and they love to use the porn addiction card to justify their wrongdoing and blame the sexual deviant porn actresses.

Does anyone feel like Jim Bob views porn also? Didn't he mention he used to bring Josh to work when he was younger? Maybe Dim Bulb forgot to close a window or clear the browser history one day and Josh saw it and began looking it up himself. JB is such a horndog, so it not's that far-fetched. He also constantly saw his dad act like a dog in heat towards his mom, so Josh probably assumed hyper sexuality was normal....as long as you are married.

Porn/sex addiction is the classic fallback excuse for being a cheater/molester/rapist/hypocrite. I think the only lamer possible excuse for infidelity or sex crimes is the Shaggy Defense ("it wasn't me").

[Peas n carrots]

Considering how tame his list of desires is I'm guessing the porn he was watching was very mild. Which is another reason I don't buy the porn addiction line. I think porn/sex addiction is no where near as common as scandal-embroiled men would like us to believe, but one complaint I hear often from women who've had the misfortune of having sex with men who watch a lot of porn without having much irl experience is that they think sex is like what they see in porn. I'm willing to bet that Josh's porn viewing was mostly limited to images of naked women and vanilla porn gifs. Bad in fundie circles, but nothing to worry about in normal people.

Honestly, how tame his list of wants are is what shocked me the most! I think he may have caught a few episodes of Red Shoe Diaries or other soft core porn. If he was into having a dominatrix penetrate him with a stiletto he would have listed it in what he thought was his discreet profile on AM.

[Mercer]

I think porn addiction is possible but rare. Watching porn, even on a frequent basis, does not equal addiction. The line is crossed when the compulsion to watch porn interferes with the person's daily life or replaces genuine emotional intimacy with other people. I think the vast majority of porn users never have that issue, and true porn addiction is just a handful of outliers.

That said, I do think it's possible that Josh is one of those outliers. He doesn't appear to have been raised to have a very healthy emotional life, and he and Anna don't demonstrate a lot of emotional intimacy with each other. It may be that porn became an addiction for Josh because it fulfilled a need that wasn't otherwise being met, and instead of realizing that he just fell deeper into the rabbit hole of using it to compensate for what was lacking in his life and marriage.

That's all just speculation, though, because I don't think the Duggars would make any distinction between viewing porn and being addicted to it.

[Ilovebrownies]

Addiction means there are cravings, inability to abstain, minimizing the impact of the addiction on one's life and the life of others, an increase in the need, demand or intensity, with porn it can mean expecting your partner (s) to live up to the porn or it can mean you don't want sex with your partner....I think many men have this addiction, including Josh. Porn is not without consequences.

[SamE]

The molestation stuff was horrible. The cheating stuff is horrible.

I do think that Josh is a creepy guy who was forced by his religion to get married too early to a girl who's sole purpose is to make babies every time they have sex.

His entire life he was surrounded by confusing and mixed messages. His parents pumping out babies, his Dad dry humping his Mom all the time, and Mom and Dad probably not being discreet in the bedroom - especially when there were 14 kids in the small house. Everything in his life was always about sex - and how Dad could hump Mom, but he wasn't even allowed to look at pretty girls. I mean, how gross when DimBulb dry humped Michelle at the golf course in front of his daughter on TV.

He wasn't allowed to date or even meet girls outside his family. No hand holding on the back of the school bus, no tentative first kiss on the girls porch at the end of a date, no condoms hidden in the sock drawer, no Playboy or Victoria Secret catalog under the mattress, no normal experiences, and no sex education. But, he was surrounded by sex ALL THE TIME.

I read in another post that if he was a regular guy, he's be the sleezy friend that the girls avoid. The guy who likes hanging at the strip clubs a little too much. They guy who drinks too much beer and hits on everyone. Most people know a guy like that. He needed time to be that guy before he got married.

I know you make decisions as an adult and you need to be held responsible. But, in a weird way I feel for Josh. He was never allowed to have normal sexual experiences, but he was surrounded by sex ALL THE TIME.

[luv2laugh]

The molestation stuff was horrible. The cheating stuff is horrible.

I do think that Josh is a creepy guy who was forced by his religion to get married too early to a girl who's sole purpose is to make babies every time they have sex.

His entire life he was surrounded by confusing and mixed messages. His parents pumping out babies, his Dad dry humping his Mom all the time, and Mom and Dad probably not being discreet in the bedroom - especially when there were 14 kids in the small house. Everything in his life was always about sex - and how Dad could hump Mom, but he wasn't even allowed to look at pretty girls. I mean, how gross when DimBulb dry humped Michelle at the golf course in front of his daughter on TV.

He wasn't allowed to date or even meet girls outside his family. No hand holding on the back of the school bus, no tentative first kiss on the girls porch at the end of a date, no condoms hidden in the sock drawer, no Playboy or Victoria Secret catalog under the mattress, no normal experiences, and no sex education. But, he was surrounded by sex ALL THE TIME.

I read in another post that if he was a regular guy, he's be the sleezy friend that the girls avoid. The guy who likes hanging at the strip clubs a little too much. They guy who drinks too much beer and hits on everyone. Most people know a guy like that. He needed time to be that guy before he got married.

I know you make decisions as an adult and you need to be held responsible. But, in a weird way I feel for Josh. He was never allowed to have normal sexual experiences, but he was surrounded by sex ALL THE TIME.

You hit the nail on the head. If he sees an actual real licensed psychologist, I believe it will help him understand why he's behaved this way and been acting out (largely due to his upbringing and ATI). I truly believe that he will need to make a decision: embrace his true self as that "sleazy" bachelor type guy always hanging out with a lot of women or an fundie family man. Unfortunately for Anna, I think he will choose the former option and end up divorcing her sometime in life because he will realize himself that they are not compatible sexually, goal-wise (he clearly is not living up to the ATI Fundie lifestyle) and hopefully realize that Anna deserves better, someone that will be faithful to her which what she wants--> not him.

[cheshire cat]

I think that Joshie really might have a porn addiction, even considering the differing standard vs fundie definitions. I doubt he was looking at any super hard core stuff based on his preferences in OK Cupid, but I can believe that he was addicted to it. His interactions with Anna make some more sense (I'm going to over-analyze their on-screen interactions, so sorry if that bothers you). He of course picked on Anna all the time like the immature, creepy guy that was alluded to earlier. Remember the RV trip to see David and Priss last summer when they see the cows giving birth and Anna hints that she wants to get pregnant again? Everyone thought that Smuggar's apathy at the whole situation was that he was dreading having another mouth to feed (and it still might have been just that) but maybe it was disinterest in Anna in general. Anna nudges him like they need to be trying harder and he just kind of smirks and looks away. Anna just seems so genuine that I don't think she was thinking about the implications of her teasing on the air. We know he'd had accounts at AM by that time since he had one for AR, so he had been cheating for a while.Honestly if he is cheating on her and "getting his sandwiches from other women" so to speak, I can see how getting together less would result in fewer chances for conception and more space in between pregnancies. So his cheating *might* have affected that.

I know that there are lots of factors at play and this could all be bunk, but it is just a thought. Again, Anna seems so genuine and that her hinting like that on the air sent up red flags for me. I just feel so sorry for her and I wish she would pack up and find someone that respects her, but I know she will never leave. I know that bit belongs on another thread, but I am sure that she was always 'available' for Smuggar like she was told to be, yet she will still probably be blamed for this anyway. She shouldn't have to suffer even more for his being a warped shitbag.

[DaisyD]

If ruining your life is part of the criteria, I think he qualifies on that point. His life is fairly ruined. More than it was a week ago. He still had defenders then.

Personally, porn has the opposite effect on me than it's intent. I was, however, declared the best wife ever by the mailman when he offered to hold onto the hubby's playboy and give it to him at leagues (they played pool together). Hubby says "Why? She's the one who paid for the subscription." He was dumbfounded. I'll never understand what the big deal is, so long as it's consensual.

[Jessa's Feet]

I personally think and took the original statement (with the porn addiction comment) to mean "I'm addicted to porn and therefore I've been unfaithful to my wife." I honestly think that at first they or he wanted to spin this as "If I'm addicted to porn and I'm just fantasizing about doing it, then that's being unfaithful." Because the wording was not coming straight out and making a point of him being unfaithful as in "I've been seeing other people." Especially when they added the unfaithful part on the end of all of the crap about porn addiction.

But I think they went back and changed it because he and his family/PR realized (and he knew) that there was no spinning this any other way. Especially since he obviously knows what he's done and how the public and/or media has found all the other accounts. It's a matter of time before people come forward. That's a huge risk. So the final statement had to be cut and dry with the unfaithful part. That way the interpretation could technically be vague and not right out "I've been seeing other actual humans in person and fucking around." Because in the fundie world, "unfaithful" can be all sorts of things. As we see in comment sections all over the place, they (humpers) like to stick their heads in the sand about all of this. So leaving the confession like this seems so much more tame to the devout followers still hanging on or just in general.

(Mind you, no doubt he's addicted to porn. Then again, I think he has a sex addiction. Especially with his OKCupid answer of him liking to have sex everyday from his partner once they establish a sexual relationship. Add that to everything else we know and I'd say he's straight up addicted to sex. But with a side of creeper.)

[Fourcard5]

NO, I don't think that Josh is addicted to porn. I think he likes porn. He is just using the porn addiction as an excuse for the reason why he cheated on his wife. He just refuse to take responsibility for what he's done. Blame it on something or someone else. Let him tell it, it's not his fault it's all porn. Society makes it to accessible and now he is worried about his younger brothers and his brothers in Christ. It's the blame game.

[Cats B4 Quivers]

I haven't a clue if Smuggar has an actual, diagnosed by a psychiatrist, porn addiction. I do know plenty of people who are loose with the phrase "porn addiction" and have learned to not automatically roll my eyes when someone mentions casually in a conversation about the ills of watching porn and how it leads to porn addiction.

Ask my mom, anyone who ever looks twice at porn (the first must be purely from an educational viewpoint so one may identify what is porn), that is an addict. My brother was caught with several Playboy, Penthouse, and some other mags when he was 15 or 16 and my mom had a complete freak out. She even called our family doctor to discuss how awful this was and I believe my brother had to sit through some sex ed talk with the doctor. What my mom did not find was his collection of third or fourth hand (*ahem*) porn on some generic vhs tapes. Those were graphic but I think would've given my mom a heart attack and I'm glad she never found them.

Ask a family friend of mine and she is still furious with an ex boyfriend who dared to watch a Playboy video. She totally freaked out and said the whole thing was humiliating to her because she felt he was comparing her to the Playboy models. The video was the naked girl hold a shawl in front of a fan or naked girl splashing about in a swimming pool type of video. I saw it too. My boyfriend received a copy for free with his subscription. I didn't think it was offensive and I doubted my boyfriend was comparing me to any of the Playboy models. I'm pretty sure the words running thru his brain were "boobies. Boobies good. Me like boobies. Oh hey, let me pop some popcorn. Mmm popcorn and boobies! Good day!". But my friend was convinced that the Playboy video was the launching off point to a serious porn addiction.

I've watched porn and really dislike amateur porn that is about abusing and humiliating either partner. Unfortunately, that seemed to be the theme when I last perused porn and have dropped porn from my viewing pleasure. Slick professional porn is too goofy looking. If any porn is watched, it's the old stuff from the 60s to early 70s made in wood panelled rooms, with large beige and brown couches, and usually the plot is of a woman who for some reason orders a pizza for delivery yet never has money to pay for it. Or, some guy looking for roommates, men or women, he's not picky, and there is some amusing orgy at the end. A real wriggly affair that was most likely a difficult job for the cameraman because the footage is everywhere and kind makes me nauseous from the choppiness. And everyone is covered in hair.

My main doubt about the Smuggar diagnosis of a porn addiction is that his family have always relied on solving sexual and mental problems with lots of praying. Pretty sure Smuggar's problems are beyond praying and need professional, qualified help.

[Pandie5]

He also came out with "porn addiction" immediately after his name was announced. There was no way he got into a psychiatrist for a diagnosis. Nor did he lose his job over it or waste his entire bank account and house due to his "addiction". It's insulting to those have real addicitions.

He's nothing more than a guy who never got to figure out who he was before marriage. And never earned anything in his life. He was even handed his wife.

There are addictions in the family though: Michelle has a pregnancy addiction. After 21 pregnancies (the last two life threatening) she goes to a fertility specialist? And Jim Boob is addicted to control.

And since no one will deal with ma and pa's issues, more kids are gonna go to "rehab".

[Jenesis]

Pornography is so prevalent because of the internet and while some couples are okay with it, I think ultimately, usually the woman, becomes offended by it. This is when marriages break down. It could be considered emotional cheating if the guy doesn't stop watching it for the sake of his wife. Also if he begins to compare and become uninterested in porn free sex with a person. Same with a woman.

I think Josh's problems are much deeper than a porn addiction.. I don't know if their marriage can survive. Personally I would forever have that nagging feeling that he was cheating on me and I wouldn't even be able to look past the molestation. And if he is not remorseful then there is no point staying married even for the children's sake. Josh and Anna need to be free to pursue their own kind of love life. It will be tough for either of them to "settle down" again, but not impossible. I don't think he wants to. She does and that will be hard with 4 kids. They should have had and I don't know that they didn't, a very long conversation about their relationship goals away from either of their parents.

[Hera]

And everyone is covered in hair.

LOL!!! Dave Atell used to do this comedy show where he and the guest of the week made fun of old porn movies, and oh, my gawd at the hair! Everywhere!!

As for Josh, I doubt he has an actual poem addiction. Maybe an overwhelming sexual curiosity. And a ginormous entitlement issue. But honestly, considering the caliber of men with whom he surrounds himself, of course he's into porn and cheating. Do we really think everyone else in the FRC is squeaky clean, much less his crazy cult leaders. The louder they scream "family values" the "dirtier" the closet.

[Closed Womb]

I don't think we'll ever know if he has an actual addiction or not. Unless he gets out of his lifestyle, gets real counseling (I mean with someone who had an actual, education-based understanding of addiction), and then chooses to speak about it, all unlikely, we'll never know.

But, I think it's entirely possible for someone to be addicted to porn (ie, the need for porn affects their ability to function, causes financial and relational ruin, etc.), just like I think someone can be addicted to sex, gambling, food and other things that are not drugs/alcohol.

Unpopular opinion, but I think it's possible for it to be a real problem if a couple has agreed to not engage in a certain behavior but they cannot keep their promise (the most obvious would be cheating, but I would consider looking a porn one of these things.) I wouldn't call this addiction, by a long shot, but anything like porn, smoking, contacting exes, that had been promised and those promises cannot be kept might be a reason for counseling (finding out why they cannot honor the relationship agreements.)

I think it's more than possible that Josh Duggar has a real porn and/or sex addiction. I think it's more than possible that he has a "normal" interest in porn, in a way that would not destroy a non-fundie family. I'm positive I will never really know which is true.