What do you all think of Josh's 'porn addiction'?

[Kimerical]

Now I'm interested in what type of porn?

Naked women of childbearing age appearing like they are really enjoying intercourse is one thing, daddy daughter incest or queer porn would bring up different issues entirely for him...

What was he getting off on? :shifty-kitty:

*Not that I think being any variety of queer is wrong or sinful at all! It's Joshley "family values" Madison and that...

[MalteseBaby]

You're kidding, Josh-style, about editing your post, right? :lol:

Edited to add: nope, you actually went back and rewrote your post, even though it is quoted here.

As a psychologist, why not set an example to Josh and own your words?

I have the right to state that I was wrong and when I edited my post, my words reflected what we do on FJ: Speculate.

Beyond that, none of us know anything about Josh Duggar except what we hear on the news, read on websites and what the tabloids publish.

I stand by my words: FJ members do speculate. That's what I edited. It;s not for me to tell anyone not to speculate when I speculate all the time, plus I can't stand Josh Duggar. I'm not his champion or his guard. It's not wrong for FJ members to speculate except about the things management has told us to stay away from 1) Sexual speculation about Duggars living at home and 2) Identity of the girl who is identified as Josh's 5th, non- family molestation 12 years ago.

I believe you can understand the difference between mis-stating what FJ members do and changing any statement about Josh's misdeeds.

[SnazzyNazzy]

Now I'm interested in what type of porn?

Naked women of childbearing age appearing like they are really enjoying intercourse is one thing, daddy daughter incest or queer porn would bring up different issues entirely for him...

What was he getting off on? :shifty-kitty:

*Not that I think being any variety of queer is wrong or sinful at all! It's Joshley "family values" Madison and that...

Who knows? I do wonder however, if they removed the "porn addiction" from his statement, because they are scared, that there is a way for people, to find out what he was watching, or how much he was watching.

[blessalessi]

I don't think the porn-related behaviour, whether it constitutes a real-world definition of addiction or not, is anywhere near the worst of Josh's behaviour by any means.

I just find it massively interesting that Josh chose to use the term "porn addiction" in v.1 of his statement, and then quickly removed it in subsequent versions. For me, it is just further revealing the massive lack of insight he and his parents have into the way the public views them.

The have believed their own hype for so long that it must be a massive brain-fuck to suddenly see themselves as others see them. I don't feel at all sorry for them, but I do feel a kind of awe at what they must be going through.

[blessalessi]

I have the right to state that I was wrong and when I edited my post, my words reflected what we do on FJ: Speculate.

Beyond that, none of us know anything about Josh Duggar except what we hear on the news, read on websites and what the tabloids publish.

I stand by my words: FJ members do speculate. That's what I edited. It;s not for me to tell anyone not to speculate when I speculate all the time, plus I can't stand Josh Duggar. I'm not his champion or his guard. It's not wrong for FJ members to speculate except about the things management has told us to stay away from 1) Sexual speculation about Duggars living at home and 2) Identity of the girl who is identified as Josh's 5th, non- family molestation 12 years ago.

I believe you can understand the difference between mis-stating what FJ members do and changing any statement about Josh's misdeeds.

Yes, sorry, I was being facetious and it didn't come across well. I was laughing at myself as much as anything because I genuinely thought that you were being ironic when you said you were going to edit your post, and then I saw that you did edit, and so I edited mine.... :)

I didn't mean to liken you to Josh, I was really just laughing at the absurdity of the thread and my own thought train. I'm sorry for slighting you though. My bad.

[hennypenny]

Why is everything an "addiction"?

I'm addicted to chocolate.

I'm addicted to caffeine.

I'm addicted to watching reality TV.

If you watch porn daily it doesn't make you addicted. If you watch porn ALL day and don't go to work, or have real sex, or interact with other people then maybe you can consider it an addiction.

Addiction isn't about how often you do the behavior it's about how much it interferes with your real life and the ability to stop.

I watch porn. There I said it. A girl, a liberated feminist, a strong woman watches porn. Grab your fainting couch because I'm gonna say something that you might not hear on the regular. I may watch porn upwards of three times a week. I don't consider it to be an addiction. I consider it to be part of my sex life, masturbation, individually or with my spouse. I'm no more addicted to porn than the ice-cream I eat late at night. Or captain crunch cereal. You know why? Because those things do not effect my job and personal life. Life marches on with or without my porn and ice-cream.

Josh is not addicted to porn any more than any other young man I've known. IMO he is doing something that is pretty normal in our society. And because his friends and family find it abhorrent behavior, he falls back on the "addicted" excuse. As if he is not in control of his behavior. What a shitty scapegoat "addiction" has become. Want to see an addict? Find someone addicted to heroine or meth. Now those things, those things ruin lives.

Wanking off on the regular to vanilla porn does not make one an addict. :lol:

[SnazzyNazzy]

Why is everything an "addiction"?

I'm addicted to chocolate.

I'm addicted to caffeine.

I'm addicted to watching reality TV.

If you watch porn daily it doesn't make you addicted. If you watch porn ALL day and don't go to work, or have real sex, or interact with other people then maybe you can consider it an addiction.

Addiction isn't about how often you do the behavior it's about how much it interferes with your real life and the ability to stop.

I watch porn. There I said it. A girl, a liberated feminist, a strong woman watches porn. Grab your fainting couch because I'm gonna say something that you might not hear on the regular. I may watch porn upwards of three times a week. I don't consider it to be an addiction. I consider it to be part of my sex life, masturbation, individually or with my spouse. I'm no more addicted to porn than the ice-cream I eat late at night. Or captain crunch cereal. You know why? Because those things do not effect my job and personal life. Life marches on with or without my porn and ice-cream.

Josh is not addicted to porn any more than any other young man I've known. IMO he is doing something that is pretty normal in our society. And because his friends and family find it abhorrent behavior, he falls back on the "addicted" excuse. As if he is not in control of his behavior. What a shitty scapegoat "addiction" has become. Want to see an addict? Find someone addicted to heroine or meth. Now those things, those things ruin lives.

Wanking off on the regular to vanilla porn does not make one an addict. :lol:

Since it is Josh we are talking about, different rules apply. By him saying that he has a porn "addiction", it nothing more than an attempt, to blame the porn on watching, on something else rather than himself. It's basically just a "the addiction made me do it", cop out.

I seriously doubt any of the Duggars, even remotely believe in something like addiction, but it sure does make a handy excuse, for when shit hits the fan.

[PracticeMakesProgress]

I don't want to get into the accurate psychological definitions of true "porn" and "sex addiction," but from my fundie-light experience, I had a couple of college-age male friends use those words to exonerate themselves from simply making bad choices. I say "bad" from the perspective that they attended Christian universities and publicly espoused Smuggar-like "family values," yet were carrying on activities that were unbecoming of future ministers and campus group leaders :roll:

The thing that's especially annoying is that for some reason, they put up a good repentance front, and all is healed! One guy even got out of criminal charges, and was still able to finish college on time because he said he was sorry and loves Jesus. Yet young women who have sex before marriage are shameful harlots and damaged goods...

The same stellar gentleman eventually married a few years later, IMHO, out of the pressure from the church. See, even after almost going to jail, being kicked out of Christian college, and being forced to admit the whole thing, he was just charismatic and full of enough shit, he was able to get a job as a youth minister! Yes! Why do I feel he married out of pressure? Oh, I don't know, because up until the week before his wedding, he was texting/calling me (and probably other females), expressing this, and expressing other unsavory things. I was so disgusted, but then also felt somewhat disgusting because did that make me a shameful secret harlot? Oh, there goes that Gothard-style female inferiority guilt we're trained so well to have...

[hennypenny]

Since it is Josh we are talking about, different rules apply. By him saying that he has a porn "addiction", it nothing more than an attempt, to blame the porn on watching, on something else rather than himself. It's basically just a "the addiction made me do it", cop out.

I seriously doubt any of the Duggars, even remotely believe in something like addiction, but it sure does make a handy excuse, for when shit hits the fan.

"handy excuse" I see what you did there. :lol:

You're very right. I don't think the Duggars believe in addiction either. It was a "satan has led you astray because you weren't faithful enough".

[Queen Of Hearts]

1.) If Josh feels he can't stop watching the porn, or it is disrupting his life, then it is an addiction for him. I think he was being truthful. While mainstream people might not think he has a problem, he clearly does. And as someone else pointed out, the rumors about Josh and prn have been around since he was a teenager so I don't doubt for a moment that he has an issue there.

2.) I doubt Josh is the person who edited that part out of his statement. I suspect that was done by Boob/DQ/some random person who is helping them with their PR. Likely after seeing the initial public reaction to the porn addiction statement (as many were saying he was using it to try to excuse the cheating). It's all about PR for these people.

[smittykins]

My theory is that he took the "porn addiction" out of his statement because it made him look like he didn't physically cheat on Anna(which I believe he did), but an "adultery in the heart" situation--which, in their worldview, is probably true--"whoever looks upon a woman with lust" and all that.

I look at porn myself, although I prefer the written kind, and as a widow, I have no one with which to righteously fulfill my desires. Oh well, guess I'm going to hell. :lol:

[nelliebelle1197]

I think Jim Boob probably had a porn problem or they wouldn't be so damn paranoid about the interwebs.

No. All the quiverfull types are paranoid about internet usage. It is about keeping the kids and adults pure. This type of "speculation" is just silly and does not take into account the fact everyone around them is the same way and the computer locks are part of the culture. The Gothard types are not the only ones who practice this type of accountability. It is not just the Duggars.

[Nica]

I don't think we can tell if he really has an addiction. My uneducated guess would be that he is a typical, horny young man in his 20s, who likes to look at porn and pretty ladies, and wants to have some casual sex with different women. Nothing out of the ordinary, really.

Of course, after his cult-upbringing, he might be truly convinced that he has an addiction.

However, I'd say the chances of him really having one are not that high.

I completely agree. Josh may or may not have a problem, however, these kids have been repressed and controlled, forced to deny any natural urges and then expected to spend eternity with a partner chosen by others and procreate incessantly from young adulthood. I don't doubt he cares for Anna but was he ever really in love with her? If he had a say in the matter, would he have gotten married so young and chosen Anna as his spouse? I'm no expert but I saw the criteria he was looking for. There was nothing outrageous or scandalous and sounds more like someone looking for a good time and doing stuff he should have been doing before settling down. Anna fit the bill for a proper wife, but the fact that we was looking for a temporary escape for conversation and sexual experimentation, to me, reeks of desperation for a more normal life and seeking fulfillment outside of the marriage he is trapped in.

That is not to justify what he did but watching porn and sleeping around is hardly shocking and likely not an addiction of any sort.

[atheistjd]

I think the view of porn (among other relatively innocuous things like uncovered lady knees and hand-holding) as equivalent to ALL other "sins" actually makes it MUCH more likely a fundie man (or woman) will cheat and feel somewhat justified in doing so. After all, if looking at, say, a prime time television show with scantily clad women is as bad as watching "real porn" which is as bad as consensual pre- or extra-marital kissing or sex which is as bad as molesting young women, and if all are equally forgivable, well, honestly, why stop at watching "porn"? I think the evangelical theology and its view of all sins as essentially equal and all humans as equal sinners is very much responsible for many a confused or trying-to-justify young person's wayward acts. Whereas a mainstream or less legalistic person would absolutely balk at the idea that porn is as bad as having an affair, it makes sense in their worldview.

Edited for riffles...

[Cassia]

From my own personal experience, a porn addiction is when it interferes with your sex life (or as others have said, your life in general).

I think fundies view a porn addiction as "watching it more than once".

Josh probably didn't know what a real, true porn addiction is and, possibly, it wasn't the correct term to use.

I hate to be playing devils advocate for Josh here....

[capncait]

I don't want to get into the accurate psychological definitions of true "porn" and "sex addiction," but from my fundie-light experience, I had a couple of college-age male friends use those words to exonerate themselves from simply making bad choices. I say "bad" from the perspective that they attended Christian universities and publicly espoused Smuggar-like "family values," yet were carrying on activities that were unbecoming of future ministers and campus group leaders :roll:

The thing that's especially annoying is that for some reason, they put up a good repentance front, and all is healed! One guy even got out of criminal charges, and was still able to finish college on time because he said he was sorry and loves Jesus. Yet young women who have sex before marriage are shameful harlots and damaged goods...

The same stellar gentleman eventually married a few years later, IMHO, out of the pressure from the church. See, even after almost going to jail, being kicked out of Christian college, and being forced to admit the whole thing, he was just charismatic and full of enough shit, he was able to get a job as a youth minister! Yes! Why do I feel he married out of pressure? Oh, I don't know, because up until the week before his wedding, he was texting/calling me (and probably other females), expressing this, and expressing other unsavory things. I was so disgusted, but then also felt somewhat disgusting because did that make me a shameful secret harlot? Oh, there goes that Gothard-style female inferiority guilt we're trained so well to have...

I think that in Josh's original statement, he was taking a cue from political scandals! It seems that if a person says that it is an addiction (whether or not it truly is), they are no longer responsible for their actions or decisions. Exonerate is right! I am not saying that we shouldn't take addictions seriously, because we certainly should, but it seems that when a scandal breaks, and a public figure is looking to displace blame, they just pull out the word 'addiction', and suddenly the narrative shifts because they shouldn't be held responsible. No, Josh, you are still an adulterer. You made your bed, Josh (except not literally, because we all know that's women's work).

[Cleopatra7]

From my own personal experience, a porn addiction is when it interferes with your sex life (or as others have said, your life in general).

I think fundies view a porn addiction as "watching it more than once".

Josh probably didn't know what a real, true porn addiction is and, possibly, it wasn't the correct term to use.

I hate to be playing devils advocate for Josh here....

I agree with you. I think that humans can be addicted to almost anything and everything, but I don't think that porn addiction is nearly as widespread as fundies believe. To me, a real porn addiction would mean that you're spending an inordinate amount of time watching it to the detriment of work, school, family relationships, etc. and spending money on porn when you should be using it to pay the rent, buy food, or other necessities. Fundies, on the other hand, seem to think that watching porn a couple of times a week constitutes an addiction. I think this attitude stems from the "flee fornication" attitude in which any kind of eroticism is supposed to be shunned and feared. If Josh really has an addiction, whether to sex, porn, or something else altogether, he needs to get real therapy (no Gothard work crews) and rehab, if only for his children's sake.

[Four is Enough]

Currently at the end of all this mishmash of threads; stopping to post. Whew!

Josh's "porn addiction" may be just that. It seems that porn and Josh have been connected since he was a teen. I'll go so far as to say that it REALLY interests him and tempts him.

I believe he is using it, however, as an EXCUSE. Porn was his gateway to adultery, doncha know.

No, I don't know that and I don't believe that.

He shouldn't be forgiven. He should be kicked to the curb.

[lascuba]

Now I'm interested in what type of porn?

Naked women of childbearing age appearing like they are really enjoying intercourse is one thing, daddy daughter incest or queer porn would bring up different issues entirely for him...

What was he getting off on? :shifty-kitty:

*Not that I think being any variety of queer is wrong or sinful at all! It's Joshley "family values" Madison and that...

Considering how tame his list of desires is I'm guessing the porn he was watching was very mild. Which is another reason I don't buy the porn addiction line. I think porn/sex addiction is no where near as common as scandal-embroiled men would like us to believe, but one complaint I hear often from women who've had the misfortune of having sex with men who watch a lot of porn without having much irl experience is that they think sex is like what they see in porn. I'm willing to bet that Josh's porn viewing was mostly limited to images of naked women and vanilla porn gifs. Bad in fundie circles, but nothing to worry about in normal people.

[from the bible belt]

No. All the quiverfull types are paranoid about internet usage. It is about keeping the kids and adults pure. This type of "speculation" is just silly and does not take into account the fact everyone around them is the same way and the computer locks are part of the culture. The Gothard types are not the only ones who practice this type of accountability. It is not just the Duggars.

I think my oldest son is still grateful he grew up outside the bible belt :lol: When i found out that he was watching porn (he was on my computer and left a window open when i got home and he walked away :whistle: ) I just had a talk with him that it is only logical to be curious and that porn is not the same as having sex and that he had to realize that not all woman are in those videos by their own free will. And then got of the hook, the duggars would be ashamed of me :lol:

And because of that (not denying the feelings or curiosity) i think it fainted away. It is to bad the adolescents in that culture can not discover their own sexuality.

[from the bible belt]

Considering how tame his list of desires is I'm guessing the porn he was watching was very mild. Which is another reason I don't buy the porn addiction line. I think porn/sex addiction is no where near as common as scandal-embroiled men would like us to believe, but one complaint I hear often from women who've had the misfortune of having sex with men who watch a lot of porn without having much irl experience is that they think sex is like what they see in porn. I'm willing to bet that Josh's porn viewing was mostly limited to images of naked women and vanilla porn gifs. Bad in fundie circles, but nothing to worry about in normal people.

And that is the reason i had this talk with my son

[lascuba]

And that is the reason i had this talk with my son

On behalf of het and bi women everywhere, thank you! :D

Seriously, that's a talk a lot of young men need.

[from the bible belt]

On behalf of het and bi women everywhere, thank you! :D

Seriously, that's a talk a lot of young men need.

Thx!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

And that is the reason i had this talk with my son

I never caught mine, but I had the same talk with my sons because I'm not naive enough to think they would never see it and certainly didn't expect them to come and share that with me.

We've had the respect/consent/reality conversation in various ways as thing come up over the years. We need to reinforce the reality that most porn is about as close to real life sex as Harry Potter is to real boarding school. (In the real ones not a one of the staircase moved and no underground tunnel to Hogsmead.)

I want them to have happy and fulfilled lives (although I don't want to know the specifics of some fulfillment - I'm fine with don't ask don't tell as long as it's consensual and legal.)

[from the bible belt]

I never caught mine, but I had the same talk with my sons because I'm not naive enough to think they would never see it and certainly didn't expect them to come and share that with me.

We've had the respect/consent/reality conversation in various ways as thing come up over the years. We need to reinforce the reality that most porn is about as close to real life sex as Harry Potter is to real boarding school. (In the real ones not a one of the staircase moved and no underground tunnel to Hogsmead.)

I want them to have happy and fulfilled lives (although I don't want to know the specifics of some fulfillment - I'm fine with don't ask don't tell as long as it's consensual and legal.)

Consensual is a big thing here also, you never touch someone who says no. Maybe it is because i was a long time single mom but the first time he had a "wet bed" in puberty he came to show me, i knew it was coming and he was a bit proud that that he had reached that age. Sexuality is nothing to be ashamed of IMO.

The bolded: LOL!!!! i read every one of those books, both in english and in dutch