I think some of the Duggar kids WILL leave sooner or later

[TheJewAmongUs]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall the Duggars ever saying that they would disown a child.

Moot point. If Jim Bob ever lost his ability to control monetize and profit from one of his children his head would explode. Can't disown a child when you're already dead.

[singsingsing]

I'm not psychic, but I just got this really strong sense that one of them has left already. That's the message I got... from... uh... beyond. 'One of them has left already.'

Yes. I just had to post this now in case I turn out to be right. Then I can point to this post and say, HA! And then begin my new career as a fundie medium. And if I'm wrong I will just explain it away by saying, "Well, one of them HAD already left... in their heart... and they're just waiting for the courage to leave in the physical realm... yes."

(On a totally unrelated note I have been chronically sleep deprived for months and I think it may be finally catching up with me...)

[FloraDoraDolly]

He didn't need Boob to give him a place to live. He bought a house (more accurately obtained one in exchange for labor) at least 3 years ago. It's owned outright and the deed is in his name. It needed work, but there are plenty of free laborers around and JD seems pretty handy himself.

If John David owns that house outright and is living in it, then I count him as the first Duggar kid to escape. I'm sure his religious and political views are still pretty conservative. But unless he has a wife and kids we haven't heard about, he is not living the Quiverfull lifestyle. I don't think his lack of social media accounts means anything. John David always acted uncomfortable in the spotlight and doesn't seem like the type who would post his whole life online.

[DuggaredOut]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall the Duggars ever saying that they would disown a child.

I don't think they've ever said that exactly, no. But I do recall a question about what they would do if one of their children left the faith, and the answer was very carefully worded. I wish I could quote it or even really paraphrase it, but I just don't remember it well enough at the moment. To me, it strongly suggested that they would be praying for that person but would not be in contact at that time. Does anyone else remember that?

[JenniferJuniper]

I don't think they've ever said that exactly, no. But I do recall a question about what they would do if one of their children left the faith, and the answer was very carefully worded. I wish I could quote it or even really paraphrase it, but I just don't remember it well enough at the moment. To me, it strongly suggested that they would be praying for that person but would not be in contact at that time. Does anyone else remember that?

Well, if they don't disown Josh now, one of the Howlers could dye his hair pink and start a punk band called the Got-Hards and still half-way expect to get a Christmas invite to the TTH.

[fabkiwi06]

A few thoughts...

I think some of the older ones may have left in spirit but just not publicly. We'd never know if JD had his own apartment... he could have utilities going to a roomate's name. I'm under the impression that the older adult kids are more private.

I also think it's very possible that JD just doesn't give two fucks about social media. Same with Jana - outside of the suspected Pinterst account.

I'm relieved for 'Siah since his courtship was called off... It seemed so forced. I'm sure Marjorie was a wonderful girl but they both didn't seem to be *that* in to each other.

I'm sure the TTH is hell right now... probably because JB + M are realizing they can't control the world outside of their bubble... and that's the world that matters.

[Sundaymorning]

I would seriously pay real money in order for this to happen!

But, as far as I've understood, in Gothardism and fundie-ism in general, it's ok if a man sins, as long as he afterwards tells everyone (including Jesus) how sorry he is. And that he will pray harder and try to be a better Christian.

Now, if Josh, instead of molesting his sisters and cheating on his wife, would have told them that, instead of courting Anna, he was leaving their cult in order to persue an education at a secular college all while moving in with his non-fundie, pants-wearing, college-student girlfriend, that would have been a whole different story.

But as long as it's committing crimes or adultery, it's ok, as long as he "repents" afterwards.

[JenniferJuniper]

I would seriously pay real money in order for this to happen!

But, as far as I've understood, in Gothardism and fundie-ism in general, it's ok if a man sins, as long as he afterwards tells everyone (including Jesus) how sorry he is. And that he will pray harder and try to be a better Christian.

Now, if Josh, instead of molesting his sisters and cheating on his wife, would have told them that, instead of courting Anna, he was leaving their cult in order to persue an education at a secular college all while moving in with his non-fundie, pants-wearing, college-student girlfriend, that would have been a whole different story.

But as long as it's committing crimes or adultery, it's ok, as long as he "repents" afterwards.

I think this transcends Gothardism.

Josh has destroyed the Duggar brand. Destroyed it, stuck a stake through its heart, and buried it a mile under the Titanic.

Money, attention, and ultimately fan adoration have been the goal of Jim Bob and Michelle for some time now. Their mindset may have been eff'd up before the fame, but the fame corrupted even the "morals" of their cult. The tinker toy house is a rudderless little ship now and even the kids must see - or at least sense - this now.

His parents will never see the role they played in encouraging their bad seed. They may tolerate him, but I don't think they'll ever forgive him. Even giving the appearance of forgiving him will have an impact on the kids who see him as the reason all the nice friends and nice things are gone. Josh is toxic.

Jim Bob and Michelle are lost without a paddle and headed up shit creek. Deservedly so.

[Sundaymorning]

I think this transcends Gothardism.

Josh has destroyed the Duggar brand. Destroyed it, stuck a stake through its heart, and buried it a mile under the Titanic.

Money, attention, and ultimately fan adoration have been the goal of Jim Bob and Michelle for some time now. Their mindset may have been eff'd up before the fame, but the fame corrupted even the "morals" of their cult. The tinker toy house is a rudderless little ship now and even the kids must see - or at least sense - this now.

His parents will never see the role they played in encouraging their bad seed. They may tolerate him, but I don't think they'll ever forgive him. Even giving the appearance of forgiving him will have an impact on the kids who see him as the reason all the nice friends and nice things are gone. Josh is toxic.

Jim Bob and Michelle are lost without a paddle and headed up shit creek. Deservedly so.

I absolutely agree that there is a lot of anger and resentment towards Josh in the whole family.

I suspect just like in a lot of other fundie families, where people can't fight openly, or, if really needed, get a divorce, but are forced to keep things sweet all the time.

What I'm saying is that, as least publicly, they can't kick Josh out of the family, as he repented, and said he was sorry. So they are obliged to forgive him (or at least pretend they do). If he, on the other hand, denounced the cult, they could shun him as long as he wouldn't come crawling back begging for mercy and promising to become a good Gothardian again.

[JenniferJuniper]

I absolutely agree that there is a lot of anger and resentment towards Josh in the whole family.

I suspect just like in a lot of other fundie families, where people can't fight openly, or, if really needed, get a divorce, but are forced to keep things sweet all the time.

What I'm saying is that, as least publicly, they can't kick Josh out of the family, as he repented, and said he was sorry. So they are obliged to forgive him (or at least pretend they do). If he, on the other hand, denounced the cult, they could shun him as long as he wouldn't come crawling back begging for mercy and promising to become a good Gothardian again.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there is no more "public" for the Duggars. And any fundie peers they thought they had have scurried away. (well, not entirely. I'm sure Jill Rodrigues would stop by for tea if they asked.)

The Duggars aren't Gothards, or ATI members, or anything else anymore. They are just yesterday's reality show fame whores who stayed far too long at the fair.

[Sundaymorning]

I guess what I'm trying to say is there is no more "public" for the Duggars. And any fundie peers they thought they had have scurried away. (well, not entirely. I'm sure Jill Rodrigues would stop by for tea if they asked.)

The Duggars aren't Gothards, or ATI members, or anything else anymore. They are just yesterday's reality show fame whores who stayed far too long at the fair.

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure if the Duggars are really done. For the general public, yes. But the IBLP/ATI crowd seems to be very, very forgiving towards people like Josh. I mean, just look at Bill Gothard and his sleazy family.

I agree that Josh is toast, at least for a few years, but Jill and Jessa and even Boob and J'Chelle will probably still be popular among certain fundie crowds.

[LurkerOverThePond]

...But I do recall a question about what they would do if one of their children left the faith, and the answer was very carefully worded. I wish I could quote it or even really paraphrase it, but I just don't remember it well enough at the moment. To me, it strongly suggested that they would be praying for that person but would not be in contact at that time. Does anyone else remember that?

I remember DQ saying "Well, I guess that would be their loss". Not exactly the loving and caring Mother Of The Year, is she?

[MistofRain752]

At this point in the game, I think they almost have to leave.. at least some of them to pursue a life were they can sustain themselves. Before TLC the Duggars were not a wealthy family and now since the big money is gone, I imagine raising all the children will be a even bigger hardship on the Duggars. They have become accustomed to a life of luxury. A huge home, lots of cars, recreational vehicles, vacations, dining out, etc... Now that the biggest part of the income is caput the children remaining will have to figure how they will be able to support themselves. Mommy and Daddy might be able to keep the house and provide some food but all the extras will be limited at best. Now that Josh will no longer be able to provide for his family, the Duggars have the added responsibility of Anna and the grandkids. Ben is also on the Duggar payroll, eventually they will have to cut him lose and he will have to find a way to provide for Jessa and their babies on his own. Like all great Dynasties before it, the Duggar Dynasty has over-lived their power and influence..

JB and MICH are not poor. They are worth between 4 and 6 million $. Money from TLC, books and guest speaking at different churches. I don't know how much their fee was but wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't between $10,000 - $20,000 per guest appearance. Plus selling books and DVD at those functions. Those appearances at the mega churches will soon dry up. Pops JB will have to dig into his savings account to finish raising all those little ones. No more freebees!

[rodgerdodger]

Josiah, Josiah, Josiah.

I imagine that these last three weeks of his life have been the most confusing of his entire life. He is an adult, but he is still in a bunk bed, sharing a huge room with all his brothers, a few of which are still rambunctious children.

Josiah idolized Josh. From the very first special you could see how much Si hung on every word Josh said. Josiah has morphed from a cheeky little boy who loooooved the camera and preferred to play with his sisters or follow Josh around then get down and dirty. Then, after he lost his cute appeal, he became Smugger Jr., all of his mannerism and the way he spoke was pure Josh.

Fast forward, and Josiah gets sent to ALERT for a crazy amount of time. He comes back, and immediately starts courting Marjorie, following in his older brother's footsteps.

But then, the first scandal broke. I'm sure that Josiah had little to no clue as to what actually happened. He was way too young to know the details, and I'm sure he was just told that Josh fell to temptation and that he needed to find his way back to God. Which, he apparently did. So growing up I'm sure Josiah saw Josh as this redeeming golden boy. He was, what 6 or 7 when the first incident happened? His older brothers were just old enough to understand more of the details of what Josh did and were able to judge him for it, while his younger brothers were toddlers and hadn't a clue what was going on.

So growing up, Josiah idolized Josh and thought that even through the worst trials, Josh managed to find God, and managed to live a holy life and was truly a role model for Josiah.

When the actual story hit, I am 100% sure that Josiah found out some shit that he had no idea about. He found out details he didn't want to know. For example, I am sure that he had no idea that Joy was involved. I'm sure that it wavered his faith in his brother, but, if anything, proved what the power of prayer and forgiveness can do. Even though Josh sinned, he was able to be fixed!

When the show got cancelled, I'm sure tempers started to fly at TTH. JB would lash out more and Michelle spent more and more time with JB and away from the kids. When Marjorie broke it off (I doubt Josiah did, but maybe he did. Who knows?), I'm sure JB was absolutely enraged. That courtship was the ONE thing that the public still cared about, and in JB's eyes it was the one thing that could get them back on air.

JB and Josiah, as some have speculated, have never had the closest relationship. What, from being not as traditionally masculine as a child to the infamous arm-grab to being sent away for over a year. I'm sure the break-up didn't help their relationship whatsoever.

So now, Josiah doesn't even have a moment alone with his thoughts because he's not allowed to. He always is within earshot of one of the howlers or of his baby sisters. He can't find a place quiet in TTH to sort of stop and think.

Then, this scandal hits. Everything Josiah thought about Josh; his redemption, his faith, e v e r y t h i n g, has totally been shattered.

So what's Josiah got now? He has no girlfriend, he lives in a dorm room where he has no time to think, his faith is undoubtedly shaken; Josh's sin and dirtiness was not "really" fixed, was it?

I'm calling it now. Josiah is getting the fuck out of there.

[HarleyQuinn]

I hope you're right RodgerDodger That's who I always expected to bolt too. It's obvious to me that Josiah has kind of a terrible relationship with JB, hence the long ALERT stay.

Majorie probably did break it off because there's no more TV show. (And went to the Bates wedding to get her court on again since they *do* have a TV show lol)

All kidding aside, Josiah should bolt. I doubt he knew details of the molestation thing at all. And it should enrage him even more since Joy and Jinger were close to him, and they suffered the most.

Then again, Joe could bolt too since Joshley Madison used his first name on his phony accounts. That's got to sting a bit.

[Lewy]

I hope so too, RodgerDodger. I just hope he waits a few more weeks.....until Joy is 18. And then he can take her with him.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Honestly, there are enough non-terrible/less-terrible J'Kids that a mutiny would actually work.

Banish JB&M to the guest house, give Anna and the M'Kids Grandma Mary's room, give the parents' room to Grandma Mary and Michelle's "office" to Jana (or vice versa), keep the minor children in the dorm-style rooms, let the adult J'Kids decide whether to stay at the TTH or find apartments. The adult J'Kids will be expected to get jobs, though.

Let the Seewalds decide whether to stay in a Duggar-owned house or move on, same for the Dillards.

Josh? IDGAF.

[nastyhobbitses]

I hope so too, RodgerDodger. I just hope he waits a few more weeks.....until Joy is 18. And then he can take her with him.

I could see Joy deciding to stay in El Salvador with Jill (immigration regulations permitting -- per the US State Department site, El Salvador issues multiple-entry visas for free to people who are staying for an extended period of time in the country, which is possibly why Jill and Derick had to leave and come back; when I lived in China, I would have to sometimes do "visa runs" to Hong Kong to reset the amount of time I had left on my visa). For all her Kool-Aid swilling and White Savior Complex, Jill seems like she's rightly staying the hell away from this mess, and getting out of the TTH for a while will be good for Joy. And I think she's adventurous and spunky enough to handle life in El Salvador.

[Rubyroo]

I hope so too, RodgerDodger. I just hope he waits a few more weeks.....until Joy is 18. And then he can take her with him.

This is wishful thinking...but maybe they sent Joy to South America with Jill because she's a flight risk on her 18th birthday. She can't exactly leave South America like she could hop on a bus and gtfo of Arkansas.

[SnowShine]

My money is on Joy. She's old enough to remember pre-TLC poverty and now she's old enough to see and understand public reaction to her oldest brother's repeated crimes and hypocrisy. She may be attached to Jill, but Jill is Mom. Kids usually step away from their parents eventually. Her brothers are her siblings. Remember the TH where she said she and Hannie were at about the same place, having to break things off with the boys? I bet she feels that it's bs her brothers get so much freedom than she does, and that along with the first two points will drive her to resentment and questioning.

[SassyPants]

The Dillards are working in Central America, not So America. Central America is a hop, skip and jump away from NWA.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Josiah, Josiah, Josiah.

I imagine that these last three weeks of his life have been the most confusing of his entire life. He is an adult, but he is still in a bunk bed, sharing a huge room with all his brothers, a few of which are still rambunctious children.

Josiah idolized Josh. From the very first special you could see how much Si hung on every word Josh said. Josiah has morphed from a cheeky little boy who loooooved the camera and preferred to play with his sisters or follow Josh around then get down and dirty. Then, after he lost his cute appeal, he became Smugger Jr., all of his mannerism and the way he spoke was pure Josh.

Fast forward, and Josiah gets sent to ALERT for a crazy amount of time. He comes back, and immediately starts courting Marjorie, following in his older brother's footsteps.

But then, the first scandal broke. I'm sure that Josiah had little to no clue as to what actually happened. He was way too young to know the details, and I'm sure he was just told that Josh fell to temptation and that he needed to find his way back to God. Which, he apparently did. So growing up I'm sure Josiah saw Josh as this redeeming golden boy. He was, what 6 or 7 when the first incident happened? His older brothers were just old enough to understand more of the details of what Josh did and were able to judge him for it, while his younger brothers were toddlers and hadn't a clue what was going on.

So growing up, Josiah idolized Josh and thought that even through the worst trials, Josh managed to find God, and managed to live a holy life and was truly a role model for Josiah.

When the actual story hit, I am 100% sure that Josiah found out some shit that he had no idea about. He found out details he didn't want to know. For example, I am sure that he had no idea that Joy was involved. I'm sure that it wavered his faith in his brother, but, if anything, proved what the power of prayer and forgiveness can do. Even though Josh sinned, he was able to be fixed!

When the show got cancelled, I'm sure tempers started to fly at TTH. JB would lash out more and Michelle spent more and more time with JB and away from the kids. When Marjorie broke it off (I doubt Josiah did, but maybe he did. Who knows?), I'm sure JB was absolutely enraged. That courtship was the ONE thing that the public still cared about, and in JB's eyes it was the one thing that could get them back on air.

JB and Josiah, as some have speculated, have never had the closest relationship. What, from being not as traditionally masculine as a child to the infamous arm-grab to being sent away for over a year. I'm sure the break-up didn't help their relationship whatsoever.

So now, Josiah doesn't even have a moment alone with his thoughts because he's not allowed to. He always is within earshot of one of the howlers or of his baby sisters. He can't find a place quiet in TTH to sort of stop and think.

Then, this scandal hits. Everything Josiah thought about Josh; his redemption, his faith, e v e r y t h i n g, has totally been shattered.

So what's Josiah got now? He has no girlfriend, he lives in a dorm room where he has no time to think, his faith is undoubtedly shaken; Josh's sin and dirtiness was not "really" fixed, was it?

I'm calling it now. Josiah is getting the fuck out of there.

Assuming you only know them from their public image and the show that's some very specific speculation. That level of detail almost seems more fan fiction-like than based on anything we could possibly know from the little the public can see.

I'd just caution about being 100% sure of anything people on the outside couldn't possibly know. It makes it too easy to blur speculation and fact. It's hard to read the inner feelings and motivations of those closest to us a lot of the time, it's impossible with strangers.

[Lovebug]

In no way did I grow up in a fundamentalist family - just a dysfunctional one. I grew up with a mother who literally hated everyone. EVERYONE. I cannot recall a neighborhood we lived in where she didn't have a reason for hating the neighbors and children in the community. So much so, that we weren't allowed to play with anyone, ever. Enter a childhood of family only interactions. My home life was also a loveless one as a child. There were no hugs, no story time, no one on one time and if I ever uttered the words, "I love you" to my mother I got an, "Mhmmm" in return. It was the epitome of isolated for a whole different reason. There's lots of other fun stuff sprinkled into my childhood, but that's a story for another day...

Fast forward to becoming an adult and meeting my now husband. Imagine my surprise when he was affectionate and began to tell me he that loved me? Imagine my reaction when I met his family and they came in for the hug the FIRST time they met me? Imagine how I felt when I actually began to make friends, talk to people, and see how awesome people really were? It was like a whole new world had opened up to me, and I saw what life was really like, and how most people actually treated one another. My head was spinning, and my true happiness a began to blossom.

Not the same caliber life as a Duggar upbringing - I know. But I truly hope that one of them - or ten of them - get to feel their version of real, honest happiness outside of cult living. It's a whole new world. I hope some of them get to see that.

[FreeJesusFromFundies]

I think that JD not having social accounts is more a matter of who JD is than any conversation that involves his parents. I would think he wouldn't really be interested in it, especially since he grew up without it. He also seems to enjoy keeping to himself, so why would he want to put himself out there more?

Yep. I know quite a few (non-religious) guys like JD that have zero interest in social media. They might have a Facebook account with little to no activity on it and that's about it. I think JD's absence from social media is his choice.

[azombieatemyshoelace]

Yep. I know quite a few (non-religious) guys like JD that have zero interest in social media. They might have a Facebook account with little to no activity on it and that's about it. I think JD's absence from social media is his choice.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if JD had a facebook, but it was a secret one. Kind of like Josh, but not with stripper friends. I also wouldn't be surprised if JD drank beer and played CoD. :)