TLC Documentary on Sexual Abuse

[HarryPotterFan]

You're right it can be hard to get an accurate number of victims but that doesn't make any more right for her to say 2/3rds of families like it was fact. I'm not sure where she got that number. The highest estimates I could find were 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 5 boys, and I believe that estimate was taking the fact that most cases go unreported into the estimate. So she was way off. Plus she was using to further minimize her brothers actions by playing it off as something normal that happens in most families.

I've heard the statistic as 1 in 4 girls/women will experience some sort of sexual assault (ongoing abuse or an isolated incident) by the time they are college-aged. Either way, it is disturbing and I agree it's hard to get accurate statistics on how often sexual abuse and assault happen.

I think, like others have said, this sort of thing could happen in 2/3 of families in their circles, which is also incredibly disturbing. It could also be something JB made up and told her (whether it's a guess based on families he knows or a statistic he completely pulled out of thin air).

[Buzzard]

It probably is within the Gothard Cult, but I did see a statistic that 2.3% of families experience sexual abuse by another sibling, so perhaps Jill's SOTDRT went into play there and she thinks 2.3%=2/3

I'm wondering about Erin Merryn now. I haven't read her book, but I've been watching interviews with her for the past few days. Did she actually get professional counselling or was it just Christian counselling like Michelle said? Does anyone know?

We'll never know the truth. If they went to a qualified counselor on their own or through DHS those records are sealed and cant be used to call them out if they are lying. They could say they were counseled by the High Priest of Martians and drank nectar from moon rocks and we couldnt disprove that. Michelle can say anything with impunity and she knows it.

[HarleyQuinn]

Jim Bob and J'chelle apparently are pitching a reality series where they "counsel" victims of abuse to piggy back off of this special. :angry-banghead:

patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/08/duggars-pitch-new-reality-show-counseling-sex-abuse-victims/

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

That photo of Josh with Josie on his lap is positively creepy. He looks so unnatural and like he's trying to figure out how to put his hands. Shivers!!!

I think you're seeing what you want to see. I don't like Josh just as much as the next person, but he doesn't look like he's forcing himself not to molest her, or whatever you're insinuating. He has his hands across himself, resting them on probably his knee. I know a lot of people who sit like that when children are on their laps. And he is clearly paying attention to and reacting to something else happening in the room. If he was really "focused on where to put his hands," he wouldn't be so relaxed.

I wish people would stop acting like they can "see" that he's "clearly a pedophile. We don't even know if he IS one. As I've stated many times before, the babysitter was his age or older based on the fact she was an adult at the time of the investigation. And there's absolutely NO proof that he has more than 5 victims, or that it is something he still struggles with.

[Four is Enough]

I happen to think that, in that picture, Josh's hands are very strategically placed so anyone in the room can see that he is "innocent"...

[doggie]

Jim Bob and J'chelle apparently are pitching a reality series where they "counsel" victims of abuse to piggy back off of this special. :angry-banghead:

patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/08/duggars-pitch-new-reality-show-counseling-sex-abuse-victims/

this would be the dugger FUBAR since they let josh fondle their daughters. Duggers are experts on everything of course.

[Snarkylark]

I happen to think that, in that picture, Josh's hands are very strategically placed so anyone in the room can see that he is "innocent"...

Right, it's just "off" if you ask me. I'm not trying to look for anything that isn't there. I'm the last one to sit and evaluate body language and facial expressions in pics but this jumped out at me so quickly.

[2manyKidzzz]

I have "read" a strange feeling I have when I have seen a few pictures of Josh.....embarrassed....self conscious....but I thought it might just be me.

It would be hard to imagine what he thinks the response would be if a picture of him is posted online. After his "outting". I don't know.

[DeFrauder]

It probably is within the Gothard Cult, but I did see a statistic that 2.3% of families experience sexual abuse by another sibling, so perhaps Jill's SOTDRT went into play there and she thinks 2.3%=2/3

I'm wondering about Erin Merryn now. I haven't read her book, but I've been watching interviews with her for the past few days. Did she actually get professional counselling or was it just Christian counselling like Michelle said? Does anyone know?

See a math mistake makes a lot of sense---and illustrates the sadness of the whole situation---from inadequate homeschooling right up to the misinformed ideas about sexual abuse.

2.3% of families "sounds" like a reasonable statistic. 2/3 sounds like the whole world is Pitcairn Island.

[CorruptionInc.]

this would be the dugger FUBAR since they let josh fondle their daughters. Duggers are experts on everything of course.

My God, really? This family are disgraceful. Are the even in the real world?

YOU ALLOWED your son easy access to your daughters even AFTER he told you he was doing the wrong thing.

YOU SENT him to "treatment" that is not of any medical or scientific standing.

Now you want to COUNSEL victims? Talk about making it 10 million times worse for them. You enable rape culture every time you talk - how do you think you are qualified for this?

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

If ANY network picks this up, they are #%#%!#%#!%!# !!!

[TheJewAmongUs]

I think you're seeing what you want to see. I don't like Josh just as much as the next person, but he doesn't look like he's forcing himself not to molest her, or whatever you're insinuating. He has his hands across himself, resting them on probably his knee. I know a lot of people who sit like that when children are on their laps. And he is clearly paying attention to and reacting to something else happening in the room. If he was really "focused on where to put his hands," he wouldn't be so relaxed.

I wish people would stop acting like they can "see" that he's "clearly a pedophile. We don't even know if he IS one. As I've stated many times before, the babysitter was his age or older based on the fact she was an adult at the time of the investigation. And there's absolutely NO proof that he has more than 5 victims, or that it is something he still struggles with.

I thought I remembered a scene in the Disneyland road trip special where Josh was carrying Johannah, so I rewatched part of it. And I admit, I did find myself paying attention to how all the kids were holding the "little ones" when carrying them and when sitting on laps. I did not intend to have any great mysteries of the universe of fundidom jump out at me. My attention was drawn to it because these asshat parents went on TV and said that that's how to protect your kids from being abused. And then their asshat-lite daughter reiterated that that's a good system.

I don't understand the is a pedophile/is not a pedophile argument where Josh is concerned. His acts were inappropriate. So are the acts of many who get the pedophile label. In most cases the difference is having been arrested or charged. I find the most disturbing part of this whole thing that his parents and his victims may only know about the acts he's admitted to. And then received no appropriate punishment, treatment, counseling to make sure he's aware of what is and is not appropriate or to assess if he's likely to reoffend. That's completely fucked up whether we debate the use of the nine letter word or not.

[SassyPants]

I thought I remembered a scene in the Disneyland road trip special where Josh was carrying Johannah, so I rewatched part of it. And I admit, I did find myself paying attention to how all the kids were holding the "little ones" when carrying them and when sitting on laps. I did not intend to have any great mysteries of the universe of fundidom jump out at me. My attention was drawn to it because these asshat parents went on TV and said that that's how to protect your kids from being abused. And then their asshat-lite daughter reiterated that that's a good system.

I don't understand the is a pedophile/is not a pedophile argument where Josh is concerned. His acts were inappropriate. So are the acts of many who get the pedophile label. In most cases the difference is having been arrested or charged. I find the most disturbing part of this whole thing that his parents and his victims may only know about the acts he's admitted to. And then received no appropriate punishment, treatment, counseling to make sure he's aware of what is and is not appropriate or to assess if he's likely to reoffend. That's completely fucked up whether we debate the use of the nine letter word or not.

The Disney episode was filmed/aired before the little girls (and even Jackson, I think) was born.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I thought I remembered a scene in the Disneyland road trip special where Josh was carrying Johannah, so I rewatched part of it. And I admit, I did find myself paying attention to how all the kids were holding the "little ones" when carrying them and when sitting on laps. I did not intend to have any great mysteries of the universe of fundidom jump out at me. My attention was drawn to it because these asshat parents went on TV and said that that's how to protect your kids from being abused. And then their asshat-lite daughter reiterated that that's a good system.

I don't understand the is a pedophile/is not a pedophile argument where Josh is concerned. His acts were inappropriate. So are the acts of many who get the pedophile label. In most cases the difference is having been arrested or charged. I find the most disturbing part of this whole thing that his parents and his victims may only know about the acts he's admitted to. And then received no appropriate punishment, treatment, counseling to make sure he's aware of what is and is not appropriate or to assess if he's likely to reoffend. That's completely fucked up whether we debate the use of the nine letter word or not.

The reason I brought up the argument and how it doesn't really stand is because when people make claims of how he's acting around his siblings or his daughters, they do so as to say he's still targeting them, especially when concerned with the youngest girls. Many people in different threads have used pictures to launch into those tirades (and have even launched into them with things like the mere fact that his daughter was born). That's where I saw the OP's post going, and that's why I attacked the thought. I really don't want to see another 20+ pages on how "he's obviously still a danger to children, particularly his daughters and youngest siblings."

[Snarkylark]

I get that, DTEIN. And that wasn't where I was trying to go with my comment. I don't know what his intentions are or what he's thinking or if he is or isn't a pedo. I just think that particular snap shot of that particular moment in time is strange and looks forced, like he's trying to prove he isn't touching her inappropriately. Why is that even a thought?? Just creeps me out, personally.

[ADoyle90815]

My God, really? This family are disgraceful. Are the even in the real world?

YOU ALLOWED your son easy access to your daughters even AFTER he told you he was doing the wrong thing.

YOU SENT him to "treatment" that is not of any medical or scientific standing.

Now you want to COUNSEL victims? Talk about making it 10 million times worse for them. You enable rape culture every time you talk - how do you think you are qualified for this?

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

If ANY network picks this up, they are #%#%!#%#!%!# !!!

This family is pure evil in my opinion, even though they might claim to be Christians. Just when I thought they couldn't be even more disgusting with their fame whoring, they go to this level.

[DeFrauder]

I get that, DTEIN. And that wasn't where I was trying to go with my comment. I don't know what his intentions are or what he's thinking or if he is or isn't a pedo. I just think that particular snap shot of that particular moment in time is strange and looks forced, like he's trying to prove he isn't touching her inappropriately. Why is that even a thought?? Just creeps me out, personally.

I think that a lot of people are reading more into photos than what is actually there. It is really easy to do when an issue is so emotionally charged. If the bombshell was never revealed you might never have gotten a hunch like this from the photo.

Personally, I do not think that Josh self aware enough to be worried about what people are thinking about where his hands might be. Especially before the world became aware of his history.

[YoshiCat]

My God, really? This family are disgraceful. Are the even in the real world?

YOU ALLOWED your son easy access to your daughters even AFTER he told you he was doing the wrong thing.

YOU SENT him to "treatment" that is not of any medical or scientific standing.

Now you want to COUNSEL victims? Talk about making it 10 million times worse for them. You enable rape culture every time you talk - how do you think you are qualified for this?

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

If ANY network picks this up, they are #%#%!#%#!%!# !!!

The fact that it would even cross their minds that this is a good idea shows how deluded they are.

But it's right in line with their mindset. They think they just need to explain to the rest of us that Josh is sorry, God forgave him so all is well. We didn't understand when they explained it during the interview so they figure they'll show us how great they are at helping/counseling sex abuse victims. We'll see that they did exactly the right things the whole time and they'll be welcomed back to television.

I don't think they'll ever believe they handled the situation in anything other than a perfect way. They are the shining example of Gothardism/IBLP, of course they handled it perfectly. And they think God wants them to be on TV as shining examples. Since we heathens don't understand how perfectly they handled the situation, they will demonstrate it for us.

I just imagine them starting with leading the victim to admit the ways she contributed to being a victim. There was that time the neckline of her dress slipped to the side and revealed some collarbone. And she did smile at him when they met, probably even acted friendly. Whore.

[hollywood]

I believe if you want to be able to "counsel" anyone, especially sex abuse victims, you need to be able to not be judgmental which they fail 100% at. Add being a hypocrite to the equation.. why do they bother?! :angry-banghead:

[missegeno]

Some people are claiming that Josh is a danger to his daughters, and I think that is certainly too much to posit. We only know the pieces that have been made public, and we shouldn't convince ourselves of anything extra.

That said, it is astonishing how little they actually use the safeguards that supposedly absolved them of all guilt or responsibility. The Disney episode was from a lot closer to the time of the incidents that are detailed in the FOIA report, and it shows them disregarding safeguards that were supposedly in place at that time. The picture of him with Josie on his lap is fairly recent, given Josie's apparent age in it.

Together, these show is that they didn't enforce the "safeguards" back when the molestations and treatments were fairly fresh, and they didn't enforce them recently with the younger girls either.

Frankly, I don't trust the words that come out of Boob and J'chelle's mouths to begin with, and it sickens me to see them lie so blatantly about so many things in this scandal. It certainly doesn't tell me anything about Josh, but it's enough for me to disagree with Jill's statement that her parents are good parents who "did everything right."

[EmmieJ]

this would be the dugger FUBAR since they let josh fondle their daughters. Duggers are experts on everything of course.

As I was driving into work this morning and listening to the Sarah and Vinnie morning show on 97.3 (San Francisco), they mentioned this bit of news. The female host, Sarah, said something like "The Duggars are desperate to get back on tv."

While I could see JimBob actually pitching this ridiculous show to TLC (and any other network that will take his calls), I can't believe TLC would even consider this for a minute, not to mention trying to drum up sponsors for such a show. Then again, I'm beginning to think that most execs at TLC are practically brain dead or perhaps are perverts themselves, given the ever growing number of disgusting scandals that keep emerging about the people they choose to showcase. For certain, something ain't right about those people.

[TheJewAmongUs]

The Disney episode was filmed/aired before the little girls (and even Jackson, I think) was born.

No, Jackson was born in the original 14 Children and Pregnant Again, and they show Johannah's ultrasound. She was born in the second special, the Disney one was their fourth special.

The reason I brought up the argument and how it doesn't really stand is because when people make claims of how he's acting around his siblings or his daughters, they do so as to say he's still targeting them, especially when concerned with the youngest girls. Many people in different threads have used pictures to launch into those tirades (and have even launched into them with things like the mere fact that his daughter was born). That's where I saw the OP's post going, and that's why I attacked the thought. I really don't want to see another 20+ pages on how "he's obviously still a danger to children, particularly his daughters and youngest siblings."

I don't read those 20 page threads, because they get too ridiculous too fast. I don't think anyone can say if he is or is not a danger to reoffend because I don't think he was every adequately taught right from wrong. He felt he had something wrong, and the outcome was the girls were made to stay away from him. It's possible there were other things that he didn't feel remorse over and just never told his parents he did them. We'll never know. And even if he ever does speak about this, it's Josh, who would believe him after all the bullshit that has spewed from his mouth in the last 10 years? He clearly molested children, but whether or not he's a pedophile would depend on how he feels about children, not if he ever acts on it again. So I wouldn't go so far as to say he clearly is a pedophile, but I also wouldn't agree with Jim Bob's definition of pedophile either.

[doggie]

[quote="ADoyle90815"

This family is pure evil in my opinion, even though they might claim to be Christians. Just when I thought they couldn't be even more disgusting with their fame whoring, they go to this level.

[TheJewAmongUs]

not evil just stupid arrogant and greedy.

I wouldn't say they're intentionally "evil." But their arrogance and willful ignorance are pretty insidious. They may appear harmless on the surface to anyone who doesn't look any deeper, but over time their affect on people ends up being pretty dangerous.

[Becket70]

As I was driving into work this morning and listening to the Sarah and Vinnie morning show on 97.3 (San Francisco), they mentioned this bit of news. The female host, Sarah, said something like "The Duggars are desperate to get back on tv."

While I could see JimBob actually pitching this ridiculous show to TLC (and any other network that will take his calls), I can't believe TLC would even consider this for a minute, not to mention trying to drum up sponsors for such a show. Then again, I'm beginning to think that most execs at TLC are practically brain dead or perhaps are perverts themselves, given the ever growing number of disgusting scandals that keep emerging about the people they choose to showcase. For certain, something ain't right about those people.

TLC may be brain dead enough to give the Duggars the show they are supposedly pitching (I say supposedly because I am having a hard time believing that it is true) but Discovery Communications would likely have a say and would say "no". When TLC canceled 19 Kids, wasn't the final decision made by Corporate...Discovery Communications? (not sure, but I seem to recall they were deeply involved) It isn't TLC that appears on the NASDAQ stock exchange, it is Discovery Communications. After the Honey Boo Boo, Gypsy Sisters and 19 Kids fiascoes, if I was them, I would keep my foot on the neck of TLC because they obviously have made some huge mistakes recently.

[doggie]

not evil just stupid arrogant and greedy.

I wouldn't say they're intentionally "evil." But their arrogance and willful ignorance are pretty insidious. They may appear harmless on the surface to anyone who doesn't look any deeper, but over time their affect on people ends up being pretty dangerous.