TLC Documentary on Sexual Abuse

[Eighth-of-eleven]

That picture, given the description of josh's crimes, makes me nauseated.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Maybe they feel that the "safeguards" don't have to apply to married men because their "desires can be righteously fulfilled" by using their wives. Which, just gave me a sick thought. IF any of the married men sexually abused a child, would their wives be blamed?

[Eighth-of-eleven]

Maybe they feel that the "safeguards" don't have to apply to married men because their "desires can be righteously fulfilled" by using their wives. Which, just gave me a sick thought. IF any of the married men sexually abused a child, would their wives be blamed?

You are completely correct in thinking that their wives would be blamed. Because the wives would not be properly fulfilling their husbands sexual needs for one and their wives would not have properly trained their daughters to have avoided "defrauding" their fathers in some way, thus arousing their father's unfulfilled sexual desires toward themselves which he would have been unable to resist because male.

Edited to add pardon me while I vomit. I am sorry, as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse trauma who grew up in a mega family with similar structures in place I get so protective of the little kids, boys and girls, as the perpetrator in my family was non-exclusive. But then I have to remember that I broke the

silence inter-family,privately and publically, when I was 22, by confronting the perpetrator, going to my other siblings and the police. It was ugly, painful, emotionally difficult and took years. But I was deyermined to open that secret because I knew that if not the next generations would suffer in silence as well.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

You are completely correct in thinking that their wives would be blamed. Because the wives would not be properly fulfilling their husbands sexual needs for one and their wives would not have properly trained their daughters to have avoided "defrauding" their fathers in some way, thus arousing their father's unfulfilled sexual desires toward themselves which he would have been unable to resist because male.

I didn't mean just to his own kids. I mean, there are lot of kids in lots of families and they all congregate in areas of low supervision. IF someone is going to be a predator, they don't necessarily have to target their own children.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

I didn't mean just to his own kids. I mean, there are lot of kids in lots of families and they all congregate in areas of low supervision. IF someone is going to be a predator, they don't necessarily have to target their own children.

Yes,i agree, any children. And the wife would still be blamed.

[artdecades]

They don't actually follow that rule, even with Josh. 40.media.tumblr.com/ d34d7609cdbd17987e61c5509f8c78d9/ tumblr_inline_ns89gg9v5b1t6ubty_1280.png

:o

edited to fix image not working

I have never seen this. This is extremely upsetting. How could they think this is ok.

[artdecades]

I'm surprised Erin Merryn was willing to work with them again. She was really upset by their behavior.

I didn't know Erin Merryn responded to the Duggar scandal. I looked it up and her comments weren't as harsh as they should have been to be honest. Maybe she thinks she can help the victims. That seems to be her goal in general.

[Blueruin]

.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2015/08/14/jim-bob-duggar-wants-to-counsel-sexual

Not sure if this has been posted (and the source isn't the most amazing). I really hope this isn't even remotely being though of as a serious answer.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2015/08/14/jim-bob-duggar-wants-to-counsel-sexual

Not sure if this has been posted (and the source isn't the most amazing). I really hope this isn't even remotely being though of as a serious answer.

I REALLY doubt that JB would pitch that, and I doubt even more that TLC would take it seriously. JB has no intention of "helping" anyone except himself. And, that kind of show would be too much work for him. Plus, TLC wouldn't put that on the air unless JB got real training. That's just asking for all kinds of backlash and potential lawsuits.

[Rajah061014]

.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2015/08/14/jim-bob-duggar-wants-to-counsel-sexual

Not sure if this has been posted (and the source isn't the most amazing). I really hope this isn't even remotely being though of as a serious answer.

:o :ew:

Lord please no!

[DeFrauder]

I'm definitely dreading this way more than the fox interviews. At least when those came out I had hope that they would be called out on their lies (or that at least someone would correct Jill when she said this happens to two thirds of families :angry-banghead: ). But with this I can't see any way their participation could be positive.

I have heard something like 1 out of 4 women experienced sexual abuse as children--but that certainly does not mean 2/3 of families. In my entire life, I have only met one person that was abused by a sibling. Wait scratch that. I also know 1 person who admitted to abusing his sister who was almost the same age as him when he was 12. Ok so 2 families out of the thousands of people I have known throughout my life.

I realize that this is something that people do not talk about but 2/3???

[DeFrauder]

It always makes me laugh and laugh that they say that dhs complimented michelle for using the safety precautions.

Most likely it went down like this:

dhs: "you need to have separate sleeping areas, alarms on doors, no children unsupervised with Josh."

michelle: "we already do that!"

dhs: "good, glad that's happening."

There was no compliment. The judge/dhs/attorneys were fucking disgusted with them brushing it under the rug for THREE YEARS. Letting Josh have access to those girls. Dhs was not saying "you're such a great mom for putting alarms on your doors and not let Josh have unsupervised!"

Fucking idiots. :lol:

Well, she was awarded Mother of the year!

I know someone who who had their autistic child apprehended (for various reasons concerning her inability to properly care for him). One of their complaints was that she was locking him in his bedroom at night. She did this because he would get out of bed at night and leave. I think he was about 5 years old at the time.

I know that you said "alarms", but I think that the Duggars claimed they locked the girls in at night.

[DeFrauder]

I have never seen this. This is extremely upsetting. How could they think this is ok.

They don't think it is ok. They specifically told us that the girls were not allowed to sit on anyone's lap except their own father's.

It is such a weird thing to lie about. We have seen two pics this week that demonstrate that it is a rule not followed.

Plus, I guess, Josh was cured and forgiven. So it is supposedly safe to sit on his lap again?

[DeFrauder]

I REALLY doubt that JB would pitch that, and I doubt even more that TLC would take it seriously. JB has no intention of "helping" anyone except himself. And, that kind of show would be too much work for him. Plus, TLC wouldn't put that on the air unless JB got real training. That's just asking for all kinds of backlash and potential lawsuits.

See--I think he WOULD pitch that! Thankfully pitching is not getting. Even TLC wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

I am pretty sure this is satire.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I have heard something like 1 out of 4 women experienced sexual abuse as children--but that certainly does not mean 2/3 of families. In my entire life, I have only met one person that was abused by a sibling. Wait scratch that. I also know 1 person who admitted to abusing his sister who was almost the same age as him when he was 12. Ok so 2 families out of the thousands of people I have known throughout my life.

I realize that this is something that people do not talk about but 2/3???

I only know one person who admits to having been sexually assaulted by a family member, and it wasn't an immediate family member. When my friend was 8 or 9, his 14 or 15 year old cousin coerced him to have sex with her. He didn't even know what he was doing because his parent's hadn't even explained "the birds and the bees" to him yet.

I know a lot of people who were sexually abused as a child -- hell I was first sexually molested (along with the girl who sat next to me in class) when I was in 1st grade by another kid in my class during class (he crawled under our table whenever the teacher wasn't paying attention; I didn't want to get in trouble, so I never told anyone who could have done anything about it). All but the one case I mentioned above that I know of were people victimized by those they trusted but weren't related to (teachers, friends, coaches, neighbors, etc).

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that the statistics are wrong. The more emotionally attached you are to your abuser, the less likely you are to report the crime, even to friends or family members. Most rape and abuse statistics come from agencies that survey the population, rather than from crime statistics. And, family abuse cases are the least likely to be reported because the abuser has the most time to groom their victim and the most emotional control over the victim.

[TuringMachine]

I only know one person who admits to having been sexually assaulted by a family member, and it wasn't an immediate family member. When my friend was 8 or 9, his 14 or 15 year old cousin coerced him to have sex with her. He didn't even know what he was doing because his parent's hadn't even explained "the birds and the bees" to him yet.

I know a lot of people who were sexually abused as a child -- hell I was first sexually molested (along with the girl who sat next to me in class) when I was in 1st grade by another kid in my class during class (he crawled under our table whenever the teacher wasn't paying attention; I didn't want to get in trouble, so I never told anyone who could have done anything about it). All but the one case I mentioned above that I know of were people victimized by those they trusted but weren't related to (teachers, friends, coaches, neighbors, etc).

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that the statistics are wrong. The more emotionally attached you are to your abuser, the less likely you are to report the crime, even to friends or family members. Most rape and abuse statistics come from agencies that survey the population, rather than from crime statistics. And, family abuse cases are the least likely to be reported because the abuser has the most time to groom their victim and the most emotional control over the victim.

You're right it can be hard to get an accurate number of victims but that doesn't make any more right for her to say 2/3rds of families like it was fact. I'm not sure where she got that number. The highest estimates I could find were 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 5 boys, and I believe that estimate was taking the fact that most cases go unreported into the estimate. So she was way off. Plus she was using to further minimize her brothers actions by playing it off as something normal that happens in most families.

[Trynn]

This kind of makes me worry about the families the Duggars associate with....

[halcionne]

Someone provided a link on sibling sexual abuse that I bookmarked but can't bring myself to read. It seems to be a study, and maybe it addresses the 2/3 figure? I don't know when, if ever, I'll be emotionally able to read it myself, so I'll link it for anyone else who wants to take a look. http://www.adfvc.unsw.edu.au/conference ... nnicki.pdf

[2manyKidzzz]

Someone provided a link on sibling sexual abuse that I bookmarked but can't bring myself to read. It seems to be a study, and maybe it addresses the 2/3 figure? I don't know when, if ever, I'll be emotionally able to read it myself, so I'll link it for anyone else who wants to take a look. http://www.adfvc.unsw.edu.au/conference ... nnicki.pdf

Took a brief look:

Families are often partriarchal

Neglect, family dysfunction are correlated

Parental stimulation of the sexual climate in the home

There is much more information but these points are interesting.

This is not a conclusion of course.

[OodOnTheLoo]

That picture, given the description of josh's crimes, makes me nauseated.

There was also the photo of Josie snuggled up on a young mans lap after Jills wedding...and I don't think she had her little sweater covering her shoulders...

So yeah, like always, they are full of shit in what they say.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

Took a brief look:

Families are often partriarchal

Neglect, family dysfunction are correlated

Parental stimulation of the sexual climate in the home

There is much more information but these points are interesting.

This is not a conclusion of course.

I read the whole paper. It was very related to my personal experience as a survivor of sibling incest. The perpetrator in my case was the favored brother, 12 years older than me, it started when I was five years old and continued until I was 9. Including molestation increasing in severity to vaginal rape.

Family dynamics included chaos, poverty, mega family, 12 children, with 11 surviving to adulthood, there were multiple victims of this perpetrator among the "littles" both boys and girls as he was non-exclusive. Several of the boys, as I found out later when I opened the family secrets up and persued legal action, abused one another in a chain of continuing ongoing sexual abuse of older to younger abuse. the other girls were abused as well. Except the oldest of my sister's.

When I began the many years process of bringing this to light and my own therapy and desire to protect the next generation of children I saw I was branded as a troublemaker and cursed and hated. Except by three of my sisters.

Pretty much The pattern laid out in this article.

[Snarkylark]

That photo of Josh with Josie on his lap is positively creepy. He looks so unnatural and like he's trying to figure out how to put his hands. Shivers!!!

[DeFrauder]

Someone provided a link on sibling sexual abuse that I bookmarked but can't bring myself to read. It seems to be a study, and maybe it addresses the 2/3 figure? I don't know when, if ever, I'll be emotionally able to read it myself, so I'll link it for anyone else who wants to take a look. http://www.adfvc.unsw.edu.au/conference ... nnicki.pdf

There is a lot of stuff in there and it is not all adequately cited---but I did glean out some numbers, or rather, some NUMBERISH stuff. This kind of reads like an undergrad paper---which is not a bad thing, but it contains an inadequate literature review.

1--sibling incest is common and occurs more often than parent-child incest. The author does not offer any information on how common parent-child incest is.

2--sibling incest that is abusive (as opposed to consensual I guess), results in similar harms to the victim as that caused by parent-child sexual abuse.

3--there is a lack of focus in the literature on sibling incest due to "normalizing the problem" and from "ignoring the problem". I do not know if the author means by victims and families or by scholars, or medical professionals ???

4--13% of a sample of 796 undergrads reported sexual experiences with a sibling. This is nowhere NEAR 2/3 families AND it presumably includes consensual incest as well.

5--1/4 to 1/3 of cases of sibling incest have been linked to a case of parent-child sex abuse.

Based on the slim evidence in this paper---the idea that it happens in 2/3 families is unsupportable. I wonder if Jill was actually TOLD that it happens in 2/3 families, and if so, who told her? Her "licensed counselor"? The faith based counselor that told her she needs to forgive Josh?

The other interesting thing from this paper, in my opinion, is the assertion that parents have a tendency to view sibling incest abuse victims as co-conspirators.

[Toothfairy]

I think what Jill said was accurate in her fundie circle. I mean the leader of ATI was a sexual abuser. Even Jim Bob said he met a lot of families at his church where brothers molesting their sisters is normal. Cults get away with shit like this.

[HarleyQuinn]

I think what Jill said was accurate in her fundie circle. I mean the leader of ATI was a sexual abuser. Even Jim Bob said he met a lot of families at his church where brothers molesting their sisters is normal. Cults get away with shit like this.

It probably is within the Gothard Cult, but I did see a statistic that 2.3% of families experience sexual abuse by another sibling, so perhaps Jill's SOTDRT went into play there and she thinks 2.3%=2/3

I'm wondering about Erin Merryn now. I haven't read her book, but I've been watching interviews with her for the past few days. Did she actually get professional counselling or was it just Christian counselling like Michelle said? Does anyone know?