Duggars Without Pity

[wotdancer]

The Duggars aim for mediocrity for all their kids. There's no room in ATI or the wider IFB for exceptional people, because such individuals would chafe against all the rules and regulations that leave no room for critical thinking or creativity. JB and Michelle have defending having so many children by claiming that one of their kids could find a cure for cancer or be president, but they know that's never going to happen. For them, having kids is like making those old school paper dolls, where there's a single mold for girl dolls and a single mold for boy dolls and making one that's different in any way destroys the flow. It's more important to create mindless godbots that thinking, autonomous individuals.

Mindless Godbot...I love this! (not the existence of the kids who are forced to be them, just the visual it brings to mind)

[GunnBroker]

Mindless GodBot, now there's another post count title candidate.

Awesome.

[roddma]

A couple of posters on DWO have claimed they sent emails to the Board of Education in Arkansas about the kids' education. If you ask me, I think it wlll fall on deaf ears since Arkansas doesnt set high standards for homeschooling. P.S. The sound guy is Jim Goodwin.

[DeFrauder]

I feel very sad for people who think the only way to be an educated person is to go sit in college classrooms. I'm pretty sure Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Kevin Rose, Larry Ellison, and Michael Dell, and people like Dave Thomas, Wolfgang Puck, Oprah, and Rachel Ray, would have something to say about how not having a degree means being uneducated.

This is an interesting collection of people that you assembled. A bunch of computer geniuses, half of which are considered geniuses, and some television personalities.

Lets take a look at what we have here :)

Bill Gates did not learn to code software in his garage. He learned it at an expensive private prep school. Then he learned some more about it at Harvard. He only dropped out of Harvard to start his business. He could have gone back if his business failed.

Steve Jobs went to Reed College. He dropped out only because his parents could not afford it. He spent all his time with computer engineering and Silicon Valley nerds.

Mark Zuckerberg was another wealthy kid (like Gates) that went to an expensive prep school and later to Harvard. He left because, you know, FB.

Kevin Rose did computer science at University of Nevada.

Larry Ellison learned about computers at the University of Chicago. He also did two years at University of Illinois.

Michael Dell was ready to complete high school at age 8. He also went to University of Texas for a bit.

Ok so those are the computer guys. Yes, they all dropped out before graduation, but that is pretty much because they had already sucked what they needed out of school to fulfill their destinies. A better opportunity came along. These types of personalities are often too impatient for school. School can't hold them in because they have too much stuff to do.

Then we have these television personalities. Dave Thomas counts as a TV guy because people know him from his TV ads.

Dave Thomas (you mean the Wendy's guy?) I had to google him. He claims that quitting school was the worst decision of his life and finally completed his GED in 1993. Then he went on to found an education center that helps adults get their GED. He also joined the military and trained as a cook (that is a legitimate training program). All this according to Wiki.

Rachael Ray is not really a chef, but her family owned many restaurants and she learned how to cook from them. I would bet money she has had "private" cooking lessons since becoming famous.

Wolfgang Puck apprenticed (that is an official training program) under famous chefs in super famous restaurants.

Oprah went to Tennessee State and studied communications. She would never have got a job in journalism if she didn't. She went there on a full scholarship.

Ok so what do all these people have in common? Most importantly, they are all outliers. The vast majority of people on this planet do not become as famous and accomplished as this group of people. Most people need to carefully plan their education and careers to become a tenth as successful as any of this group.

None of this group have any substantial education in public policy, philosophy, international affairs, law, governance or any other field that a person elected to public office would want to have.

So does a person with no education have a chance of becoming a a congressman? Yes, about the same chance that any of us have of being the next Bill Gates or Oprah Winfrey.

So stay in school, sweet Duggar spawn.... :D

[DeFrauder]

The Duggars aim for mediocrity for all their kids. There's no room in ATI or the wider IFB for exceptional people, because such individuals would chafe against all the rules and regulations that leave no room for critical thinking or creativity. JB and Michelle have defending having so many children by claiming that one of their kids could find a cure for cancer or be president, but they know that's never going to happen. For them, having kids is like making those old school paper dolls, where there's a single mold for girl dolls and a single mold for boy dolls and making one that's different in any way destroys the flow. It's more important to create mindless godbots that thinking, autonomous individuals.

I agree with you, but I think the Duggars are self-deluded enough to believe that making godbots is the best way to produce people that will cure cancer or become President. They do not have higher education themselves and they do not understand what kind of education is necessary to become a scientists with the potential to cure cancer or a President.

[DeFrauder]

I'm curious to know who "Jim" is. I'm thinking it may be a member of their old church, a cousin or even a member of the original film crew. Someone who knew just enough about their situation at that time as well as since then. We seem to all agree JB was a grifter and the kids are poorly educated. I'm highly educated and my family has always praised education but I also had family members that couldn't go beyond high school or a GED for reasons that had nothing to do with their intelligence or willingness to learn. My main problem with Meeechelle is that she had minimal time to spend educating the kids, she provided poor resources for them to learn from (ATI character pamphlets anyone?) and worst of all JB/M actively encouraged blind obedience and stifled curiosity, creativity and critical thinking skills. My grandfather graduated from high school at 15/16 in order to work but he was a lifelong learner and wanted his kids to finish high school and go beyond in order to have a career. None of their kids are encouraged to think critically and that is their greatest downfall as homeschool educators. That and they want their kids to make the same exact choices they do and to not venture out from their prescribed circle.

This is exactly it. The resources are not there.

A mind is a horrible thing to waste---and in the Duggar style homeschooling case--that waste is on purpose.

I believe that purposely restricting the socialization of children is abuse.

[SassyPants]

This is an interesting collection of people that you assembled. A bunch of computer geniuses, half of which are considered geniuses, and some television personalities.

Lets take a look at what we have here :)

Bill Gates did not learn to code software in his garage. He learned it at an expensive private prep school. Then he learned some more about it at Harvard. He only dropped out of Harvard to start his business. He could have gone back if his business failed.

Steve Jobs went to Reed College. He dropped out only because his parents could not afford it. He spent all his time with computer engineering and Silicon Valley nerds.

Mark Zuckerberg was another wealthy kid (like Gates) that went to an expensive prep school and later to Harvard. He left because, you know, FB.

Kevin Rose did computer science at University of Nevada.

Larry Ellison learned about computers at the University of Chicago. He also did two years at University of Illinois.

Michael Dell was ready to complete high school at age 8. He also went to University of Texas for a bit.

Ok so those are the computer guys. Yes, they all dropped out before graduation, but that is pretty much because they had already sucked what they needed out of school to fulfill their destinies. A better opportunity came along. These types of personalities are often too impatient for school. School can't hold them in because they have too much stuff to do.

Then we have these television personalities. Dave Thomas counts as a TV guy because people know him from his TV ads.

Dave Thomas (you mean the Wendy's guy?) I had to google him. He claims that quitting school was the worst decision of his life and finally completed his GED in 1993. Then he went on to found an education center that helps adults get their GED. He also joined the military and trained as a cook (that is a legitimate training program). All this according to Wiki.

Rachael Ray is not really a chef, but her family owned many restaurants and she learned how to cook from them. I would bet money she has had "private" cooking lessons since becoming famous.

Wolfgang Puck apprenticed (that is an official training program) under famous chefs in super famous restaurants.

Oprah went to Tennessee State and studied communications. She would never have got a job in journalism if she didn't. She went there on a full scholarship.

Ok so what do all these people have in common? Most importantly, they are all outliers. The vast majority of people on this planet do not become as famous and accomplished as this group of people. Most people need to carefully plan their education and careers to become a tenth as successful as any of this group.

None of this group have any substantial education in public policy, philosophy, international affairs, law, governance or any other field that a person elected to public office would want to have.

So does a person with no education have a chance of becoming a a congressman? Yes, about the same chance that any of us have of being the next Bill Gates or Oprah Winfrey.

So stay in school, sweet Duggar spawn.... :D

Staying in school?

They've never been in school.

[DeFrauder]

Staying in school?

They've never been in school.

Lol a person can dream can't they?

Why does no one insist on mandatory testing for homeschooled children---to ensure they are meeting a minimum standard?

[freealljs]

This is what bugs me about the Duggars and education:

My mother never graduated from high school, because at the time she was growing up where she was born, parents had to pay for their children's education. Her parents/my grandparents couldn't afford to send her to school, and regretted that all their lives. When my mother came to the US, the first thing she did was enroll in GED classes. My mother made sure that I not only finished HS, but also went on to college.

ISIL is enslaving women and girls for sex, thereby crippling them. No education, no freedoms for them. Their lives will never be the same. I seriously doubt those women and girls give two shits about their shoulders being covered or their knees showing when they are being raped in the name of Allah.

Without education, there are no teachers, lawyers, doctors, or engineers. Nobody will be able to maintain the grids or wires that provide their house electricity. Nobody will be able to maintain and improve the roads that they rely on to get to and from the TTH. Nobody will be able to maintain the plane or the fuel for it that John David so loves to fly. Nobody will be able to make inexpensive fabrics for their modest wear. Nobody will be able to create and produce their beloved Apple products. Nobody will be able to produce the antibiotics and medicines to get them past illnesses, that they would die from if this were 100 years ago. Nobody will be able to maintain the technology for the farmers to mass produce food.

The Duggars only take and do not want to give back. They do this especially with education and those who are educated, and it really gets under my skin.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

This is what bugs me about the Duggars and education:

My mother never graduated from high school, because at the time she was growing up where she was born, parents had to pay for their children's education. Her parents/my grandparents couldn't afford to send her to school, and regretted that all their lives. When my mother came to the US, the first thing she did was enroll in GED classes. My mother made sure that I not only finished HS, but also went on to college.

ISIL is enslaving women and girls for sex, thereby crippling them. No education, no freedoms for them. Their lives will never be the same. I seriously doubt those women and girls give two shits about their shoulders being covered or their knees showing when they are being raped in the name of Allah.

Without education, there are no teachers, lawyers, doctors, or engineers. Nobody will be able to maintain the grids or wires that provide their house electricity. Nobody will be able to maintain and improve the roads that they rely on to get to and from the TTH. Nobody will be able to maintain the plane or the fuel for it that John David so loves to fly. Nobody will be able to make inexpensive fabrics for their modest wear. Nobody will be able to create and produce their beloved Apple products. Nobody will be able to produce the antibiotics and medicines to get them past illnesses, that they would die from if this were 100 years ago. Nobody will be able to maintain the technology for the farmers to mass produce food.

The Duggars only take and do not want to give back. They do this especially with education and those who are educated, and it really gets under my skin.

Beautifully stated. So true!

[Srilaura]

Lol a person can dream can't they?

Why does no one insist on mandatory testing for homeschooled children---to ensure they are meeting a minimum standard?

Arkansas had mandatory testing of homeschoolers until this year when Gov Asa Hutchinson and the Republican legislature repealed the law.

[2manyKidzzz]

Arkansas had mandatory testing of homeschoolers until this year when Gov Asa Hutchinson and the Republican legislature repealed the law.

I guess I would wonder why. I really do wonder why. Wow.

[feministxtian]

I dropped out of college...more than once. It took me a sum total of 20 years to finish an AAS degree. I finished my BS in another 3-4.

I had one teacher in high school that both pissed me off and pushed me beyond what I felt I could accomplish. Courtesy of what she did in that 10th grade English class (tore up a paper I wrote with a "you can do better" comment), I ended up being able to use that skill (and the never-fading memory of that shredded paper) to do other things (freelance technical writing).

The Duggar kids have never been pushed, never been coached, never really been taught beyond a bare minimum. What a waste.

[Cleopatra7]

Arkansas had mandatory testing of homeschoolers until this year when Gov Asa Hutchinson and the Republican legislature repealed the law.

The Duggars have such low standards that I don't think that testing would have made much of a difference anyway. Hypothetical J'boy is behind in reading? Doesn't matter, since the Duggars don't read for fun. Hypothetical J'girl can't do long division? Who cares, as long as she can do basic housework and give birth multiple times (it wouldn't surprise me if the Duggars believe that women shouldn't handle family finances). If some J'kid scored poorly on a state test, it would have no bearing on their future, since s/he isn't going to college, a trade school, or a job involving a boss whose last name isn't Duggar. There are no consequences to a poor academic performance among the Duggars.

[TaterTotRancher]

I have taught in public school and I have homeschooled and the bottom line is in both situations if you have a family that does not value education and actively preaches against it you will not have good results. When I homeschooled I considered it my full time job. I can't imagine plunking my kid in front of a computer and saying, "go." But many public school districts are marketing this approach as well & offering online school options. I worked for one and it was a big money maker for them. Student funding but no brick and mortar costs.

[DeFrauder]

Arkansas had mandatory testing of homeschoolers until this year when Gov Asa Hutchinson and the Republican legislature repealed the law.

Interesting.

It doesn't sound like the law was enforced, anyway.

ie-if someone who should be working on algebra is still working on multiplication tables then they are not meeting the standards.

[DeFrauder]

I have taught in public school and I have homeschooled and the bottom line is in both situations if you have a family that does not value education and actively preaches against it you will not have good results. When I homeschooled I considered it my full time job. I can't imagine plunking my kid in front of a computer and saying, "go." But many public school districts are marketing this approach as well & offering online school options. I worked for one and it was a big money maker for them. Student funding but no brick and mortar costs.

I am not against homeschooling---or getting school at home--if they are following the approved curriculum. Some kids have health issues and doing correspondence is a good option for them. My own son had to do that for a couple of years.

The school sent him a bunch of books and assignments and he would hand his assignments in to a teacher who who grade them and hand them back. They also spoke on the phone and had online chats with other students doing the same thing.

The point is that he was learning the appropriate material.

[Srilaura]

Arkansas passed its homeschool statute in 1985. In 1995, state legislators attempted without success to pass Senate Bill 583, which would have required homeschool high school students to pass a high school exit examination. In 1997, Governor Mike Huckabee signed into law House Bill 1157, which stripped the homeschool statute passed in 1985 of accountability.

So kids are basically off the grid.

[DeFrauder]

Arkansas passed its homeschool statute in 1985. In 1995, state legislators attempted without success to pass Senate Bill 583, which would have required homeschool high school students to pass a high school exit examination. In 1997, Governor Mike Huckabee signed into law House Bill 1157, which stripped the homeschool statute passed in 1985 of accountability.

So kids are basically off the grid.

And that will eventually bite them in the ass.

The whole purpose of public education is to create a population with a minimum skill set. They will not be able to attract industry to the state if they do not have an educated workforce.

[Cleopatra7]

And that will eventually bite them in the ass.

The whole purpose of public education is to create a population with a minimum skill set. They will not be able to attract industry to the state if they do not have an educated workforce.

And the scary thing is that JB and Michelle went to some educational conference a bit before Joshgate as "examples" of how home schooling should be done. This is why I don't have much hope for the state of education in this country. On the one hand, there's a lot of talk about improving public education, increasing the number of students studying STEM, and the like, but at the same time, there is a push to teach creationism and defund public schools. The only way that the Duggar family could be used as an example is if they're considered a cautionary tale of what happens when you under-educate and hyper-shelter your children.

[AuntK]

With a real education, the Duggar offspring might acquire critical thinking skills, be exposed to all types of differing views, philosophies, and might even reach the point where they questioned the beliefs and practices of their backward parents! :o

[roddma]

Does anyone still go there anymore? It doesn't seem the moderating has loosened up. We got reminded in the Jessa birth thread not to talk about personal birth stories. DWOP doesn't get no where near the comments it use to, though.

[Bethella]

nope, it has been years

[Bad Wolf]

Not for a long time. I occasionally go to Pickles page, though. (Hangs head in shame and slinks away.) 

[catlady]

I haven't been there in several months.  I stopped going regularly once I realized how much fun FJ is. DWOP is so dull by comparison that I completely lost interest.......