What Happens if the LDS church breaks ties with Boy Scouts?

[Cleopatra7]

That's what I think as well, and in my area, you won't hear about some Boy Scout getting lost in the local mountains on a hike. I'm mentioning that because whenever that happens, the reports usually say that he was from a LDS troop. In Mormon scouting, the leaders are there because it's a church "calling" for them, and not because they really want to be in that position. They also don't get the extensive training non-LDS scout leaders do, and there's no background checks being done. Locally, it was mentioned that a sex offender had served as a LDS scout leader, and that one of the reasons he went to prison was that LDS Boy Scouts were among his victims.

Another issue, and I don't mean to offend any Mormons here, but the Eagle Scout thing outside of Mormon troops isn't just a participation trophy, as it has to be earned outside of one's church, and not every Scout gets it. In LDS troops, pretty much everyone gets it, and in many cases, boys won't be allowed to get their driver's license until they become Eagle Scouts. LDS troops just do things related to their own church, or helping their own members as Eagle projects. The only Boy Scout troops I've seen at community service projects such as beach cleanup days are not LDS sponsored troops.

My impression is that the LDS basically treats the Eagle Scouts as an assembly line for its teen boys. Because all the boys are expected to be Eagle Scouts, not only does the honor lose its meaning, but many of their projects are done in a half-assed manner (I got these impressions from the Mormon Expositor and Mormon Expression podcasts, both of which take a skeptical view at Mormon culture, history, theology, etc. from both practicing and ex-Mormons). LDS troops also seem to have a bad reputation among non-LDS troops, and supposedly behave badly at scout jamborees:

mormoncurtain.com/topic_boyscouts.html

On a somewhat related note, I wish that the Girl Scout Gold Award, which is the highest award in Girl Scouting, had more visibility. Why does every know what an Eagle Scout is but not about a Gold Awardee? I feel like the stereotype of a Girl Scout is of a elementary school girl selling cookies, when our middle and high school age Girl Scouts are doing really cool things without the same recognition that Eagle Scouts get?

[LovelyLuna]

My impression is that the LDS basically treats the Eagle Scouts as an assembly line for its teen boys. Because all the boys are expected to be Eagle Scouts, not only does the honor lose its meaning, but many of their projects are done in a half-assed manner (I got these impressions from the Mormon Expositor and Mormon Expression podcasts, both of which take a skeptical view at Mormon culture, history, theology, etc. from both practicing and ex-Mormons). LDS troops also seem to have a bad reputation among non-LDS troops, and supposedly behave badly at scout jamborees:

mormoncurtain.com/topic_boyscouts.html

On a somewhat related note, I wish that the Girl Scout Gold Award, which is the highest award in Girl Scouting, had more visibility. Why does every know what an Eagle Scout is but not about a Gold Awardee? I feel like the stereotype of a Girl Scout is of a elementary school girl selling cookies, when our middle and high school age Girl Scouts are doing really cool things without the same recognition that Eagle Scouts get?

no kidding! I used to put on my resume -Girl Scout Gold award recipient (the highest achievement in Girl Scouts, roughly equivalent to Eagle scout, only achieved by 6% of scouts) :roll:

[Hane]

Memory:when my oldest brother married, my uber Roman Catholic mother was weeping one day and wailed that he had made a "mixed marriage" he married a Presbyterian....

Hell, my dad's Baptist mother called his marriage to my Catholic mother a "mixed marriage"--even though he decided to convert to Catholicism during their engagement!

[louisa05]

In my area all girl scouts went rollerskating at the roller rink in March for Girl Scouts birthday.

Don't know anything about ice skating.

There is a gap between me and my brothers (15 years)

They are currently in Boy Scouts but we don't really like the troop or Boy Scouts rules compare to Girl Scouts.

When my boyfriend and I took the boys on a scouting camping trip there were sevral 'problems'

we were told all kids needed an adult / parent with them at the trip, ( so my boy friend and I went as the children have no father in this country and thier mother is to old and disabled to get up.off the ground let alone sleep.on it) however some boys came without adults.

This was certainly never a rule with my Girl Scout Troop we would have like 3 or 4 Moms come for the group of 12.

Parents did not have to come and they certainly didnt have to stay at meetings!!

When in Girl Scouts we often camped under the stars. Boy scouts told us this was unsafe and we had to use a tent.

At the camping trip children were breaking limbs off trees and not respecting nature.

As a Girl Scout we were always talk to leave the campsite better than we had found it I don't think hurting the trees person who owned the land and trees qualifies as this.

Not on this camping trip but over all... They claim to teach reverence for life however they sing a 'funny' song about roadkill.

Oh Ted the road oh Ted the toad why are you lying on the road? ...

That doesn't teach reverence for life.

What is with the scout to adult ratio in Boy Scouts? A friend posted a picture of her son's scouting pack on FB yesterday and I counted 18 kids and 19 adults. All in uniforms--so it wasn't merely a matter of parents getting in the picture. Why on earth must there be that many adults? I was a Girl Scout; we had about 10 girls and 2 moms. How does being surrounded by adults enable them to make friends in the group or develop independent skills? Call me crazy, but I think it is good for kids to function without their parents in settings like this.

[Wingnut]

What is with the scout to adult ratio in Boy Scouts? A friend posted a picture of her son's scouting pack on FB yesterday and I counted 18 kids and 19 adults. All in uniforms--so it wasn't merely a matter of parents getting in the picture. Why on earth must there be that many adults? I was a Girl Scout; we had about 10 girls and 2 moms. How does being surrounded by adults enable them to make friends in the group or develop independent skills? Call me crazy, but I think it is good for kids to function without their parents in settings like this.

We recently went camping and ended up next to a LDS Eagle Scout troup. There were 4 adults and apprx 30 teen boys. It was not a pleasant experience and we were relieved to see them leave after 2 days.

[louisa05]

We recently went camping and ended up next to a LDS Eagle Scout troup. There were 4 adults and apprx 30 teen boys. It was not a pleasant experience and we were relieved to see them leave after 2 days.

That's a bit low ratio for camping, maybe, I would think that maybe a couple more adults for a 1:5 ration would be good. But it also would depend on how the supervision is handled. And I am speaking as a veteran HS teacher who did a few trips with groups of teens. I know with non-school groups there can be a tendency for the adults to just hang out together and let the kids do as they please. For our 8th grade church retreat, they assign one or two adults to supervise a group of around 10 kids which works better.

The group in the picture I referred to was 8-10 year olds. So maybe the ratios get more reasonable later. This was not a camp picture, though. This is just the regular meeting adult to child ratio for their group. I suspect it may be helicopter parenting run amok in that case based on what I know about the parent who posted it and their crazy suburban ticky-tacky housing development. Yet lilwriter85 said her nephew's group required a parent to be with every kid, so maybe not.

[Idolatry]

I had no idea that LDS BS troops were a thing. :think: I am eternally grateful that the Girl Scouts are not like the BS.

-proud gold award recipient. ;)

Nah, there's a reason FRC considers the Girl Scouts lesbian abortionists. They've had a boycott for years, even of the cookies! Girl Scouts a long history of being very progressive on issues like women's health and gay rights, recently transgender girls too.

And they have a "homo-punk" spokesman in favor of "abortion on demand" the FRC doesn't like.

Link to FRC. WARNING: This is FRC. http://www.frc.org/washingtonwatchdaily ... s-far-left

[Wingnut]

That's a bit low ratio for camping, maybe, I would think that maybe a couple more adults for a 1:5 ration would be good. But it also would depend on how the supervision is handled. And I am speaking as a veteran HS teacher who did a few trips with groups of teens. I know with non-school groups there can be a tendency for the adults to just hang out together and let the kids do as they please. For our 8th grade church retreat, they assign one or two adults to supervise a group of around 10 kids which works better.

The group in the picture I referred to was 8-10 year olds. So maybe the ratios get more reasonable later. This was not a camp picture, though. This is just the regular meeting adult to child ratio for their group. I suspect it may be helicopter parenting run amok in that case based on what I know about the parent who posted it and their crazy suburban ticky-tacky housing development. Yet lilwriter85 said her nephew's group required a parent to be with every kid, so maybe not.

I agree with you. I blame the ratio of adults to teens for the lack of supervision and the subsequent behavior that followed. There should have been at least 10-12 adults for a group that size IMO.

[louisa05]

I agree with you. I blame the ratio of adults to teens for the lack of supervision and the subsequent behavior that followed. There should have been at least 10-12 adults for a group that size IMO.

Ten adults for 30 kids is a 1:3 ratio. That's probably overkill, especially for teens. Hell, in my state, the ratio for daycares for 18 mths-3 yrs is 1 adult per 6 toddlers. A ratio of I:5 or 6 should suffice but there has to be some organization and clear expectations for behavior which may have been what was lacking in that case. Teachers deal with that many kids every day, usually all by themselves. The average middle school class size in my district is up to 27 with one teacher. It isn't that it can't be handled.

[justoneoftwo]

Hell, my dad's Baptist mother called his marriage to my Catholic mother a "mixed marriage"--even though he decided to convert to Catholicism during their engagement!

My grandmother wanted my mom to avoid this kind of "mixed marriage" (her parents had one, it caused a large amount of strife for them mostly because her dad was fired for it and died thinking he was going to hell). My mom then married a Jew.

[Wingnut]

Ten adults for 30 kids is a 1:3 ratio. That's probably overkill, especially for teens. Hell, in my state, the ratio for daycares for 18 mths-3 yrs is 1 adult per 6 toddlers. A ratio of I:5 or 6 should suffice but there has to be some organization and clear expectations for behavior which may have been what was lacking in that case. Teachers deal with that many kids every day, usually all by themselves. The average middle school class size in my district is up to 27 with one teacher. It isn't that it can't be handled.

I agree with your ratio; I have worked in the schools. This was a diff situation. The adults there were so overwhelmed that they were taking off to get away. That is when things would get out of control.

[louisa05]

I agree with your ratio; I have worked in the schools. This was a diff situation. The adults there were so overwhelmed that they were taking off to get away. That is when things would get out of control.

See stuff like that kind of makes me laugh just a little (though I feel bad for you being stuck near the mess), because dealing with large groups of kids just isn't so easy, now is it???

It is different in schools because there is structure and clear expectations. I have been involved with religious education for three years now and have observed so many other adults falling on their faces with the kids under their supervision because they are not organized and have not made the expectations clear to the kids. I'm sure that is what happened here and then instead of taking charge, the adults chose to abandon the whole thing. Nice.

[LovelyLuna]

We had two adults and at our max I think we had 12 or 14 girls all of the same age/grade. by the time we reached HS there were only 7. We hustled in fundraising (and this was in the 90’s when you only had cookie sales and 2 other fundraisers only) and had the most amazing trips in and out of state.

When I was a camp counselor they had a rough ratio of 10 to 1, plus extra staff. we had ages 6 to 17.

Oh how I miss the Scouts. now that I am disabled I am reduced to liking their Facebook page. :(