What Happens if the LDS church breaks ties with Boy Scouts?

[silverspoons]

I knew the LDS church was a big part of the boy scouts but I never knew how big. They account for more then 1/3 of the scout troops sponsored. I guess the LDS church is considering (they aren't saying it is because of any recent equality issues, but good timing?) making their own scout program.

 

My Non-LDS son was in an LDS scout group. It sure had deep pockets. I offered to pay since I'm not LDS but members paid for everything for every boy and many extras, like renting airplanes, and donating incredible camp sites that non-lds troops (like the elks and catholic church troops) used.

 

Here is the debate article going on in Utah right now.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2778130-155/ ... g-bsa-will

[DarkAnts]

All I can think right now is that there will be fewer boy scout deaths in Utah.

[silverspoons]

All I can think right now is that there will be fewer boy scout deaths in Utah.

I don't know, if the LDS church takes over the scout program, I bet their rules would have a higher scout death rate. One of the reasons my son left his LDS scout troop was lack of safety, mainly because they did not follow the boy scout handbook. For instance my son had never handled a gun before, but the troop skipped over gun safety because all 12 year olds have used a gun before? It took one of my son's friends to speak up that my son was nervous and needed some instruction. After that I had a hard time with that they had their own rules and had very strict timelines.

[DarkAnts]

Yes, but those deaths would be directly associated with the LDS church instead of a large national organization. It would force the leaders to be more accountable for their troops.

[busdrivingmom]

I know the Boy Scouts have said church sponsored troops would be exempt from having or allowing gay leaders. It will be intersting how this works out. Sad to hear about the safety issues with LDS troops.

[Idolatry]

LOL, imagine the pledge. Funeral potatoes, oh and WE'RE NOT GAY, in case you were wondering.

[lilwriter85]

A relative of mine, worked in administration for BSA in Colorado, for several years. He said LDS troops were hard to deal with. He said a few years back, that he wouldn't be surprised if LDS broke away from BSA. Assembly of God churches have their Royal Rangers program, it's not might of stretch for LDS to do something similar.

[Idolatry]

A relative of mine, worked in administration for BSA in Colorado, for several years. He said LDS troops were hard to deal with. He said a few years back, that he wouldn't be surprised if LDS broke away from BSA. Assembly of God churches have their Royal Rangers program, it's not might of stretch for LDS to do something similar.

I just don't know about that. When Mormon boys are, say, applying for college or talking to normal people and they are Eagle Scouts, that's warm and fuzzy. A Supreme NotGay Scout in a weird, mormon NotGay Scouts thing you've never heard of wouldn't be.

[DarkAnts]

I just don't know about that. When Mormon boys are, say, applying for college or talking to normal people and they are Eagle Scouts, that's warm and fuzzy. A Supreme NotGay Scout in a weird, mormon NotGay Scouts thing you've never heard of wouldn't be.

There is at least one boys scout death each year in Utah. I had a friend be part of that satistic when I was a teen. I never understood why my Girl Scout troop could not go ice skating at the local rink buy the boy scouts did go ice skating at the local pond.

[bekahdimples]

There is at least one boys scout death each year in Utah. I had a friend be part of that satistic when I was a teen. I never understood why my Girl Scout troop could not go ice skating at the local rink buy the boy scouts did go ice skating at the local pond.

In my area all girl scouts went rollerskating at the roller rink in March for Girl Scouts birthday.

Don't know anything about ice skating.

There is a gap between me and my brothers (15 years)

They are currently in Boy Scouts but we don't really like the troop or Boy Scouts rules compare to Girl Scouts.

When my boyfriend and I took the boys on a scouting camping trip there were sevral 'problems'

we were told all kids needed an adult / parent with them at the trip, ( so my boy friend and I went as the children have no father in this country and thier mother is to old and disabled to get up.off the ground let alone sleep.on it) however some boys came without adults.

This was certainly never a rule with my Girl Scout Troop we would have like 3 or 4 Moms come for the group of 12.

Parents did not have to come and they certainly didnt have to stay at meetings!!

When in Girl Scouts we often camped under the stars. Boy scouts told us this was unsafe and we had to use a tent.

At the camping trip children were breaking limbs off trees and not respecting nature.

As a Girl Scout we were always talk to leave the campsite better than we had found it I don't think hurting the trees person who owned the land and trees qualifies as this.

Not on this camping trip but over all... They claim to teach reverence for life however they sing a 'funny' song about roadkill.

Oh Ted the road oh Ted the toad why are you lying on the road? ...

That doesn't teach reverence for life.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I honestly don't see how the LDS troops can stay in the BSA at this point and not have constant issues and possible litigation. The LDS troops are not going to want to fraternize with outside troops at camp, jamborees, etc. because they won't be able to control who the leaders are.

Why would the BSA want them to stay if they aren't going to accept the new rules? I think it could hurt the BSA in the short term if LDS troops take their packs and go home, but the long term benefits would be that a higher percentage of troops would align with the National BSA values.

[Idolatry]

I bet there are a lot of Mormons who are sick of their church picking fights about the gay issue. It must be embarrassing to know you're on the wrong side of history -- and frustrating that your church keeps fixating on this issue.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I wonder if the Mormons would start their own BSA alternative, or if they would just start up troops with Trail Life USA? I don't know if it's as big out west, but Trail Life has been growing quickly all over my area. Still nowhere near as huge as BSA, though.

[lilwriter85]

]I honestly don't see how the LDS troops can stay in the BSA at this point and not have constant issues and possible litigation. The LDS troops are not going to want to fraternize with outside troops at camp, jamborees, etc. because they won't be able to control who the leaders are.

Why would the BSA want them to stay if they aren't going to accept the new rules? I think it could hurt the BSA in the short term if LDS troops take their packs and go home, but the long term benefits would be that a higher percentage of troops would align with the National BSA values.

My relative who worked for BSA mentioned those issues with LDS troops. He said LDS troops only focused their community service activities on LDS church members. Back when there was that big wildfire in 2003 in Colorado, LDS troops didn't want to be involved in fundraisers or gathering clothes and supplies.

[felinefundie]

I bet there are a lot of Mormons who are sick of their church picking fights about the gay issue. It must be embarrassing to know you're on the wrong side of history -- and frustrating that your church keeps fixating on this issue.

As a very active Mormon: so much yes. It absolutely does not affect the church in any way, and even though apparently no other members seem to see the similarities between these current equal rights issues and all the other ones the church has opposed (the ERA, civil rights, etc), they are just so glaringly obvious to me. Just, live and let live, guys.

That being said, I think the aftermath of the LDS church severing ties with the BSA will be very mixed. Scouting is a very beloved, popular thing for boys in the church, but it's also a huge time and money suck. Accomplishing anything of merit in a church-run scouting program will be incredibly less impressive in the secular world than saying you were an Eagle Scout. I don't think the LDS church severing ties with them will affect the BSA as much as the potential boycotts they could get if they seem to be affiliated with such an outspoken "hate-group" (which is, unfortunately, what many have come to see the church as, thanks to this very issue).

[salex]

Christian radio is already promoting a Christian alternative to boy scouts called Trail life. Whether they will consider Mormons orthodox enough for their statemnt of faith i dont know.

[Cleopatra7]

I wonder if the Mormons would start their own BSA alternative, or if they would just start up troops with Trail Life USA? I don't know if it's as big out west, but Trail Life has been growing quickly all over my area. Still nowhere near as huge as BSA, though.

The problem with creating a BSA alternative is that the LDS church can't brag about how many Eagle Scouts they churn out. Being an Eagle Scout has a positive connotation in our society that some equal but lesser known honor in another scouting program wouldn't have. But given how much the Mormon church encourages LGBT people to stay closeted or enter a mixed orientation marriage, would conflicts between openly gay scouts or leaders really be a problem in LDS sponsored troops?

[Firiel]

Christian radio is already promoting a Christian alternative to boy scouts called Trail life. Whether they will consider Mormons orthodox enough for their statemnt of faith i dont know.

If my experience is any indication, Mormons will not be Orthodox enough for them. Where I grew up, an evangelical dating a Mormon was hugely frowned upon, more so from the evangelical side than the LDS side.

EDIT: Sorry, that doesn't sound related. I mean that it was frowned upon because it was seen as a Christian dating outside of the faith and actually dating a cult member. That understanding of Mormonism means that Mormons wouldn't be invited to the special Christian-only Boy Scouts, unless it was as an outreach or something.

[lilwriter85]

If my experience is any indication, Mormons will not be Orthodox enough for them. Where I grew up, an evangelical dating a Mormon was hugely frowned upon, more so from the evangelical side than the LDS side.

EDIT: Sorry, that doesn't sound related. I mean that it was frowned upon because it was seen as a Christian dating outside of the faith and actually dating a cult member. That understanding of Mormonism means that Mormons wouldn't be invited to the special Christian-only Boy Scouts, unless it was as an outreach or something.

I remember during the 2012 election, some fundies and evangelicals trashed Romney and Mormonism. We can't forget how Josh Duggar trashed Mormonism on IG and then changed his tune when Romney got the nod. ZsuZsu had a long post on Mormonism and called it a cult. PP also did a sermon and said the same thing. I also recall some drama at Liberty University when Romney spoke there. Some students refused to go and IIRC, they called Mormonism cult too.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

Memory:when my oldest brother married, my uber Roman Catholic mother was weeping one day and wailed that he had made a "mixed marriage" he married a Presbyterian....

[ADoyle90815]

I don't know, if the LDS church takes over the scout program, I bet their rules would have a higher scout death rate. One of the reasons my son left his LDS scout troop was lack of safety, mainly because they did not follow the boy scout handbook. For instance my son had never handled a gun before, but the troop skipped over gun safety because all 12 year olds have used a gun before? It took one of my son's friends to speak up that my son was nervous and needed some instruction. After that I had a hard time with that they had their own rules and had very strict timelines.

That's what I think as well, and in my area, you won't hear about some Boy Scout getting lost in the local mountains on a hike. I'm mentioning that because whenever that happens, the reports usually say that he was from a LDS troop. In Mormon scouting, the leaders are there because it's a church "calling" for them, and not because they really want to be in that position. They also don't get the extensive training non-LDS scout leaders do, and there's no background checks being done. Locally, it was mentioned that a sex offender had served as a LDS scout leader, and that one of the reasons he went to prison was that LDS Boy Scouts were among his victims.

Another issue, and I don't mean to offend any Mormons here, but the Eagle Scout thing outside of Mormon troops isn't just a participation trophy, as it has to be earned outside of one's church, and not every Scout gets it. In LDS troops, pretty much everyone gets it, and in many cases, boys won't be allowed to get their driver's license until they become Eagle Scouts. LDS troops just do things related to their own church, or helping their own members as Eagle projects. The only Boy Scout troops I've seen at community service projects such as beach cleanup days are not LDS sponsored troops.

[Johanna25]

I think the Mormons and the Boy Scouts deserve each other; I wouldn't give a nickel to either. I heard the news about the Boy Scouts allowing gays, but do they still ban atheists?

[Cleopatra7]

I think the Mormons and the Boy Scouts deserve each other; I wouldn't give a nickel to either. I heard the news about the Boy Scouts allowing gays, but do they still ban atheists?

I think the atheist ban is still in place, but there are ways to get around it by saying that you believe in "the god of Einstein" or some other oblique way of talking about non-belief. I know that a woman who is a member of one of my atheist groups has a teenage son who got his Eagle Scout award earlier this year (she's raising her kids as freethinkers, so it's not a case where a parent is a closet atheist and the kids are being raised as believers), and I assumed that that was how they got around it.

[lilwriter85]

That's what I think as well, and in my area, you won't hear about some Boy Scout getting lost in the local mountains on a hike. I'm mentioning that because whenever that happens, the reports usually say that he was from a LDS troop. In Mormon scouting, the leaders are there because it's a church "calling" for them, and not because they really want to be in that position. They also don't get the extensive training non-LDS scout leaders do, and there's no background checks being done. Locally, it was mentioned that a sex offender had served as a LDS scout leader, and that one of the reasons he went to prison was that LDS Boy Scouts were among his victims.

Another issue, and I don't mean to offend any Mormons here, but the Eagle Scout thing outside of Mormon troops isn't just a participation trophy, as it has to be earned outside of one's church, and not every Scout gets it. In LDS troops, pretty much everyone gets it, and in many cases, boys won't be allowed to get their driver's license until they become Eagle Scouts. LDS troops just do things related to their own church, or helping their own members as Eagle projects. The only Boy Scout troops I've seen at community service projects such as beach cleanup days are not LDS sponsored troops.

NieNie's husband Christian was called to be a scout leader and it seemed NieNie wasn't too happy about it. I read a few other Mormon blogs and there was another blogger whose husband was called to be a scout leader. That blogger's husband seemed happy with his calling.

[LovelyLuna]

I had no idea that LDS BS troops were a thing. :think: I am eternally grateful that the Girl Scouts are not like the BS.

-proud gold award recipient. ;)