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New Documents published by In Touch


DeFrauder

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Joy to Jessa were always known as the victims. It was a question of Jill or Jana as the 4th victim. The Duggars outed Jill as the 4th victim.

I disagree that they were always "known" as the victims.

People were reading the police report and making guesses but that was just speculation. You couldn't tell with absolute certainty who was who. There were even a lot of conflicting opinions here on FJ about what the police report even said because some of the pronouns were redacted.

(Example: Some people thought it was the sister who ran crying after the incident when Josh was reading the book and some people thought it was Josh who ran crying.)

The only identity we knew for sure was Joy because of the Duggar's own actions. They filed the request to have the police records destroyed which was only (questionably) legal because one of the victims was still a minor. Joy, being 17 at the time, was the only minor.

Then Jill and Jessa came forward to do the interview and identified themselves. So it was a question between Jana and Jinger. Megyn asked Jill and Jessa about the other victims and referred to them as "the younger ones" so that ruled out Jana.

I just found it ironic that Megyn Kelly, being a conservative, got a pass for not being careful with her wording. Oops it was just an accident let's not dwell on it.

Yet the city officials who released the records (which they were obligated to do by law) were part of some liberal conspiracy.

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I thought this was common knowledge? Or maybe I've just seen people speculating about the Duggars suing because of the release of the records.

On that note, I think whoever was in charge of redacting the documents failed miserably. No one should've been able to figure out the identity of the victims. Despite Jessa and Jill minimizing molestation, I feel bad for those 4 girls. Most media organizations have a policy of not identifying the victims of sexual assault. By publishing the poorly redacted version of the report, they essentially identified the girls. Anyone with familiarity with the Duggars could figure out which girls were victims. I know there was some question about whether Jana was the sister who wasn't abused, but identifying the ages of two of the girls made their identification certain. The details, and even the occurrence, of their abuse should never have been made public. I have no problem with identifying Josh as a teenage child molester, but I still wish InTouch had revealed the proof without compromising the girls. I know the sentiments in this paragraph have all been said before, but it is particularly bothering me today. :pull-hair:

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I thought this was common knowledge? Or maybe I've just seen people speculating about the Duggars suing because of the release of the records.

On that note, I think whoever was in charge of redacting the documents failed miserably. No one should've been able to figure out the identity of the victims. Despite Jessa and Jill minimizing molestation, I feel bad for those 4 girls. Most media organizations have a policy of not identifying the victims of sexual assault. By publishing the poorly redacted version of the report, they essentially identified the girls. Anyone with familiarity with the Duggars could figure out which girls were victims. I know there was some question about whether Jana was the sister who wasn't abused, but identifying the ages of two of the girls made their identification certain. The details, and even the occurrence, of their abuse should never have been made public. I have no problem with identifying Josh as a teenage child molester, but I still wish InTouch had revealed the proof without compromising the girls. I know the sentiments in this paragraph have all been said before, but it is particularly bothering me today. :pull-hair:

To the bolded sentiments, I'm not sure I agree the redactor failed miserably. He or she had to comply with the law and you can't redact everything simply because the people involved have a reality show. There aren't special exemptions in the law for them. Names and ages were redacted which would be standard procedure. In this situation just a few small details would have likely confirmed - or at least given credence to - the "Alice" story which has been out here for years, and Alice had a lot of details accurate, right down to the fact that Jana was not a victim. But again, you can't redact everything and still comply with the law.

InTouch is another issue. By publishing the police report, they knew they were outing victims, at least four of whom were minors at the time of the investigation and one of whom still is a minor. It was a sleazy thing to do, but perfectly legal and protected by the First Amendment. Tabloids generally don't have scruples; that's just the way it is.

We can't lose sight of the fact that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar put their daughters in this situation. Had they appropriately dealt with the situation in 2002, the littlest victim may not have been molested. Had they appropriately dealt with the situation in 2003, Josh would have still been a minor and any police reports would have been sealed. In 2004, had they not agreed to the first of the TV specials and later the show, there would be no public interest in their children. And had they not attacked the morals of entire LGBT community, there may have been less interest in exposing Josh and his parents as the raging hypocrites that they are.

It's an unfortunate situation for the daughters all around and I do feel badly for them, but this was a perfect storm created in large part by their parents' bad choices.

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I thought this was common knowledge? Or maybe I've just seen people speculating about the Duggars suing because of the release of the records.

On that note, I think whoever was in charge of redacting the documents failed miserably. No one should've been able to figure out the identity of the victims. Despite Jessa and Jill minimizing molestation, I feel bad for those 4 girls. Most media organizations have a policy of not identifying the victims of sexual assault. By publishing the poorly redacted version of the report, they essentially identified the girls. Anyone with familiarity with the Duggars could figure out which girls were victims. I know there was some question about whether Jana was the sister who wasn't abused, but identifying the ages of two of the girls made their identification certain. The details, and even the occurrence, of their abuse should never have been made public. I have no problem with identifying Josh as a teenage child molester, but I still wish InTouch had revealed the proof without compromising the girls. I know the sentiments in this paragraph have all been said before, but it is particularly bothering me today. :pull-hair:

I agree with all of this. The girls should not have had to go through what they are going through, and I believed this entire experience revictimized them. But at the same time, InTouch didn't have any other choice when they published the story. The original article did not have the evidence, and many here at FJ (including myself) didn't believe it because there wasn't any hard evidence. Had they released only a partial document, I think people would accuse them of trying to hide evidence or protect Josh. Also, had they not released the whole document, we wouldn't have been able to disprove the Duggars' story of the "mild, inappropriate touching over clothes," since the report details of the younger girls' experiences. I don't particularly blame InTouch for revictimizing them, though they could have handled it better. Had Jim Bob and Michelle handled this correctly the first time, the scandal would have been nothing but a rumor. And of course, putting your children on television like the Duggars did is destined to cause them great public distress in one way or another regardless of their past, so JB and Michelle failed them again.

It sickens me that the girls had their statuses as victims of abuse as well as the details of that abuse published. But it also sickens me that their abuser was allowed to move on with life, unpunished, and try to climb up the political ladder of Washington preaching moral superiority and family values. It is a no-win situation, but I feel the blame should be placed almost completely on the Duggar parents for allowing things to get to the point that they did.

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I disagree that they were always "known" as the victims.

People were reading the police report and making guesses but that was just speculation. You couldn't tell with absolute certainty who was who. There were even a lot of conflicting opinions here on FJ about what the police report even said because some of the pronouns were redacted.

(Example: Some people thought it was the sister who ran crying after the incident when Josh was reading the book and some people thought it was Josh who ran crying.)

The only identity we knew for sure was Joy because of the Duggar's own actions. They filed the request to have the police records destroyed which was only (questionably) legal because one of the victims was still a minor. Joy, being 17 at the time, was the only minor.

Then Jill and Jessa came forward to do the interview and identified themselves. So it was a question between Jana and Jinger. Megyn asked Jill and Jessa about the other victims and referred to them as "the younger ones" so that ruled out Jana.

I just found it ironic that Megyn Kelly, being a conservative, got a pass for not being careful with her wording. Oops it was just an accident let's not dwell on it.

Yet the city officials who released the records (which they were obligated to do by law) were part of some liberal conspiracy.

There were 5 daughters at the time. There were 4 victims who were daughters. The one daughter who said she wasn't a victim was studying for her GED. Joy and Jinger were no where near old enough to be studying for a GED. Therefore, through process of elimination, only Jill and Jana were left to be the non-victim. When they came forward and said Jill was the victim, they confirmed that Jana wasn't. That still left Jinger and Joy as victims. If Jill hadn't come forward, that still would have left the non-victim as Jill or Jana. It doesn't take much to read the reports and realize that.

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There were 5 daughters at the time. There were 4 victims who were daughters. The one daughter who said she wasn't a victim was studying for her GED. Joy and Jinger were no where near old enough to be studying for a GED. Therefore, through process of elimination, only Jill and Jana were left to be the non-victim. When they came forward and said Jill was the victim, they confirmed that Jana wasn't. That still left Jinger and Joy as victims. If Jill hadn't come forward, that still would have left the non-victim as Jill or Jana. It doesn't take much to read the reports and realize that.

Yes, it was pretty clear the three youngest girls were victims. "Alice" had also said the oldest daughter wasn't assaulted but the younger four were, and since she'd been right about the whole story I was inclined to believe that even before the Duggars confirmed it. Kelly probably confirmed with the Duggars that they were okay with her acknowledging the obvious.

When Kelly asked the other night why people weren't happy with the Jill's and Jessa's attitude toward the abuse, I could only think of the little ones. There was a clear difference between what the Duggars say happened to them (such a light touch while sleeping they didn't even know what happened) and what the police report tells us the little girls experienced. The laundry room story was chilling, and the other small child was fully awake when fondled under her clothing.

If I were an older sister, I would not have gone on TV and made light of Josh's behavior considering what the little girls experienced. I don't care what was on the line or what my parents wanted me to say. I'm not saying they needed to throw Josh under the bus on national TV, but they could have declined an interview and said nothing.

We'll probably never know, but I wonder what Jana thinks of all this.

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We'll probably never know, but I wonder what Jana thinks of all this.

It would be interesting to know what Jana thinks about a lot of things, but sadly I don't think we'll ever find out.

As much as we all love Jana and she has heaps of couches to sleep on if she does run; the girl is still in a fundie family with harmful beliefs. As much as her stupid mother has always used her as a slave; you can tell she still really loves her.

I've always wondered if she was spared the abuse because she was close to her twin? I know boys and girls aren't really allowed to mix; but JD and Jana do have a connection other siblings wouldn't have, being twins.

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Yes, it was pretty clear the three youngest girls were victims. "Alice" had also said the oldest daughter wasn't assaulted but the younger four were, and since she'd been right about the whole story I was inclined to believe that even before the Duggars confirmed it. Kelly probably confirmed with the Duggars that they were okay with her acknowledging the obvious.

When Kelly asked the other night why people weren't happy with the Jill's and Jessa's attitude toward the abuse, I could only think of the little ones. There was a clear difference between what the Duggars say happened to them (such a light touch while sleeping they didn't even know what happened) and what the police report tells us the little girls experienced. The laundry room story was chilling, and the other small child was fully awake when fondled under her clothing.

If I were an older sister, I would not have gone on TV and made light of Josh's behavior considering what the little girls experienced. I don't care what was on the line or what my parents wanted me to say. I'm not saying they needed to throw Josh under the bus on national TV, but they could have declined an interview and said nothing.

We'll probably never know, but I wonder what Jana thinks of all this.

The problem was, they were dealing with a PR firm that was in charge of Huckabee. They never would have allowed the girls to say anything damning about Josh because Huckabee is a Josh supporter. And, to be honest, I really can't say if the girls really understand all that happened in that house or what it meant to everyone it happened to. Or if they've even allowed themselves to understand how THEY feel about how they were treated. You're coming from a position of someone looking in on abuse. They're in the midst of the abuse. It's an entirely different perspective and it's one in which they could very well be blaming themselves for Josh's actions.

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It would be interesting to know what Jana thinks about a lot of things, but sadly I don't think we'll ever find out.

As much as we all love Jana and she has heaps of couches to sleep on if she does run; the girl is still in a fundie family with harmful beliefs. As much as her stupid mother has always used her as a slave; you can tell she still really loves her.

I've always wondered if she was spared the abuse because she was close to her twin? I know boys and girls aren't really allowed to mix; but JD and Jana do have a connection other siblings wouldn't have, being twins.

If she really was spared the abuse (like I've said before it's possible she never admitted to it or that she was unconscious for what happened to her, as Josh had hoped would have been the case for the first 3 victims), I would imagine a lot of it had to do with the fact that she was sister mom to the babies. In the early specials, it was stated that buddies were assigned in age order. Jana always had the babies. It wasn't until Jenny was revealed to be a girl that Jill stepped forward and claimed her, and I would imagine the buddy teams were born around that point. If I was Josh, and I was trying to cop a feel while the girls were sleeping, I wouldn't have done it to the girl sleeping with the baby. If the baby had woken up, he would have been busted. If Jana was spared, I imagine it was because she was the original J'slave.

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I don't think they have a leg to stand on. The chief made sure to have their hind end covered before the report was released and got the green light from the DA to release the info with names blotted out. SOme news outlets sued for the release of Michael Brown's records. And doesn't FOX often release juvenile records?

As far as being revictimized, yea I feel for them but the only ones who revictimized them are Josh, Boob, and Michelle. No one made Jill and Jessa do an interview, at least I hope not.

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I've always wondered if she was spared the abuse because she was close to her twin?

You know, I have a different slant on why Jana wasn't messed with - because she WAS older and less vulnerable. I think that's what makes Josh very dangerous - abusers groom victims, and will always seek the most vulnerable & the least likely to tell, which I don't think describes Jana. She was older and the most likely to a) know what was going on and b) run to the parents immediately.

*edited for clarity

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If she really was spared the abuse (like I've said before it's possible she never admitted to it or that she was unconscious for what happened to her, as Josh had hoped would have been the case for the first 3 victims), I would imagine a lot of it had to do with the fact that she was sister mom to the babies. In the early specials, it was stated that buddies were assigned in age order. Jana always had the babies. It wasn't until Jenny was revealed to be a girl that Jill stepped forward and claimed her, and I would imagine the buddy teams were born around that point. If I was Josh, and I was trying to cop a feel while the girls were sleeping, I wouldn't have done it to the girl sleeping with the baby. If the baby had woken up, he would have been busted. If Jana was spared, I imagine it was because she was the original J'slave.

We only assume that Jana was not abused because Jill came forward to clear up that confusion.

We do not know for sure that Jana is not also a victim.

WE do not know if there are more victims that did not get revealed in the investigation that led to the police report.

If Jana was indeed spared it could be because:

1: she was too old to be of interest.

2. she was old enough to be a risk to the offender.

3. an attempt was made on her but she slapped Josh into next week before he could do anything.

Some people are better than others at dodging sexual predators. The younger a person is, the lower the chance they can dodge.

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Jana could have been spared because she had an infant sibling sleeping next to her making her less accessible.

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Well regardless of why it is that Jana was, supposedly, spared, I think whatever reason it was says way more about Josh than Jana.

RE the bad redaction- I think it's sad that the girls are outed, but also I agree that the people releasing/redacting may have risked legal trouble if they didn't do what they did. Didn't the police chief actually go out of her way to tell them the status of the FOIA request so they could prepare? That makes them throwing her under the bus even more disgusting. But I agree, Jimchelle ultimately put them in this position to begin with. As did Josh.

And honestly, it's not intouch's job to be nice to celebrities, and maybe they released the police report to back up their story and protect themselves. And also FOX tried to get the report themselves but were denied.

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Well regardless of why it is that Jana was, supposedly, spared, I think whatever reason it was says way more about Josh than Jana.

RE the bad redaction- I think it's sad that the girls are outed, but also I agree that the people releasing/redacting may have risked legal trouble if they didn't do what they did. Didn't the police chief actually go out of her way to tell them the status of the FOIA request so they could prepare? That makes them throwing her under the bus even more disgusting. But I agree, Jimchelle ultimately put them in this position to begin with. As did Josh.

And honestly, it's not intouch's job to be nice to celebrities, and maybe they released the police report to back up their story and protect themselves. And also FOX tried to get the report themselves but were denied.

From what we have pieced together from local news they were notified ahead of time and the DA cleared the report to be released. The only ones at fault for the report being released are Jimchelle. They didn't follow the correct steps for this to be sealed. Since this investigation was never finished, based on what was in the report, it wasn't sealed with the DCS report.

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Jana could have been spared because she had an infant sibling sleeping next to her making her less accessible.

Don't the babies have to sleep near Michelle? The j-slaves do not lactate.

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Well regardless of why it is that Jana was, supposedly, spared, I think whatever reason it was says way more about Josh than Jana.

RE the bad redaction- I think it's sad that the girls are outed, but also I agree that the people releasing/redacting may have risked legal trouble if they didn't do what they did. Didn't the police chief actually go out of her way to tell them the status of the FOIA request so they could prepare? That makes them throwing her under the bus even more disgusting. But I agree, Jimchelle ultimately put them in this position to begin with. As did Josh.

And honestly, it's not intouch's job to be nice to celebrities, and maybe they released the police report to back up their story and protect themselves. And also FOX tried to get the report themselves but were denied.

There is no choice in releasing a report with a FOIA order. If someone refused they would be fired/suspended/pushed aside and the next person in line would have to release the report. The media is being dishonest if they are pretending there was a choice or that it was at the discretion of anyone or that it is simply a moral issue.

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Don't the babies have to sleep near Michelle? The j-slaves do not lactate.

Michelle only kept the babies until she weaned, then they were passed off. In early specials, Jana was listed as the one who got the babies.

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Michelle only kept the babies until she weaned, then they were passed off. In early specials, Jana was listed as the one who got the babies.

I would assume that weaning takes place when the new baby comes. That is more or less how everyone else does it (that has baby after baby).

Does Michelle have a special time line?

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Boob and Mechelle under-reacted when abuse was happening under their own roof, but they can't turn the other cheek when there's a possibility of making money from the same issue.

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Jana could have been spared because she had an infant sibling sleeping next to her making her less accessible.

But Josh didn't seem to particularly care how old the victims were... I know the babies at that time were all boys, but I still don't think that would have stopped him much, unless he was afraid to wake the baby. But Jill would have also had a kid in close proximity and she was the one who was molested while sleeping.

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But Josh didn't seem to particularly care how old the victims were... I know the babies at that time were all boys, but I still don't think that would have stopped him much, unless he was afraid to wake the baby. But Jill would have also had a kid in close proximity and she was the one who was molested while sleeping.

Jim Bob said in the Kelly interview that the girls slept in two different rooms at the time. I can't remember if they were in a 3 or 4 bedroom house in '02, but I thought it was 3. The two little girls were apparently not assaulted in their rooms, nor (allegedly) was Jana. Justin would have been a newborn. James was born in mid '01, Jason would have been about 3, and the twins would have been about 4. Given the limited number of probably small bedrooms and the fact that Jim Bob says the girls were split up into two of them, with 13 kids (not including the newborn who we'll assume was with his parents) and 8 being boys it sounds like boys and girls were sharing bedrooms. Josh may have simply had better access to Jessa and Jill or easier access to their room for some reason. Jana may have had a large passel of little kids around her. Or she may have been in a mixed room with babies and older boys.

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I would assume that weaning takes place when the new baby comes. That is more or less how everyone else does it (that has baby after baby).

Does Michelle have a special time line?

Michelle stated when she was pregnant with Josie that the weaning took place when she became pregnant, and that it was usually the first sign because the milk would change.

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Michelle stated when she was pregnant with Josie that the weaning took place when she became pregnant, and that it was usually the first sign because the milk would change.

1.5-3 years old was the age of the 2nd youngest during the baby making holiday. If Michelle kept the youngest with her (even slightly post weaning) than Jana would have a 9months - 3 year old in. Its the older babies who would be more likely to wake a fuss then a new born and who a change in sleep habit (suddenly crying/wanting to play at night when they didn't normally do so) would have been more noticed in.

That said I imagine that even if Jill didn't officially have the babies, she still would have littles crawling into her bed once Jana's was full.

I'd be surprised if she didn't have a little near her when Josh was touching.

There are other reasons for Jana's sparing

- was she already developed and not as interesting physically to Josh :angry-steamingears:

- did she have more access to Michelle - she's the one Michelle would have had to parent to teach the girl facts of life to - that could be a threat to him

- was she going of with Amy and getting secret girly gossip - Amy could have recognised good touch/bad touch, and Jana is her closest in age girl cousin - again a threat

- was her relationship with JD enough of a threat, JD was the one boy who had the best chance of standing up to Josh, were they sleeping together - (in a twin comfort thing - not an icky way)

- was she awake sister mumming while Josh was about to molest

It is a huge red flag though - teenage hormonal experimentation, you'd expect the curiosity to focus be on the one who was more physically developed not the pre-pubescent ones. Jill would have started puberty at the time, the other 3 had not... :cry: (for all of them)

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