All Things Dillard - Part 5

[Nic]

Between this update and the original announcement post, Derick is a shitty writer.

[VelociRapture]

People love holding babies - that's pretty much universal. My guess is that D&J are meeting people who ask to hold Israel because he is A BABY, but are attributing it to him being a blue-eyed white baby. Essentially, my guess is that they are the ones racializing the interaction, on a basis of their general white saviour complex...

I see how the comment is just really... off. I did know a girl in High School who really did get comments like that when she traveled in Japan. She has blonde hair and blue eyes - people were really curious about her, would stare at her, and would call her Cinderella.

So maybe it's a combination of most people just liking babies and a handful of people being curious because of his coloring? Either way, weird way for them to word it.

[MatthewDuggar]

On the "Duggars do Asia" episodes the little kids were "talked to" by J&J in China that the people will stare at them and want to touch them, because they don't see blonde little girls and so many all at once. They wer ordered to smile and be polite at all time. They did seem to be quite a sideshow act in Tinnaniman Square.

[DeFrauder]

Derick's comment sounds racist to our ears.

But I think if they are in a rural and impoverished part of the world that doesn't see many tourists of different sizes, shapes and colors, that's exactly what the locals might have called Izzy.

When I worked in a rural part of South America years ago, comments on my blue eyes were common. Local doctors said the average baby size was 5.5 pounds, and a baby 7-pounder was a really big boy. I have no doubt Izz is getting comments on his size and his eye colour and possibly even his skin color.

Derrick is sooooo tone deaf in repeating the comment publicly, though. The Dillards are just little kids playing at this.

The thing is though that Central America is populated with a fair amount of white people. Maybe not all as white as the Dillards, but it would totally not be the first time anyone had seen white people. Especially if they are hanging around the mission for whatever reason. Plus, Latin American TV and media is full of "white" people, which has to do with their own internal racism problem. It is similar to the USA where television and other media does not represent the full ethnic diversity of the population and instead over represents people that resemble northern Europeans.

Part of the issue here is that Derrick THINKS that the people in this town are so unsophisticated that they are so excited to see a white baby, or worse, that they value the white baby over any regular old baby they have swaddled up around town. In my opinion, that is the danger in missionaries like him. Not only does he assume superiority for his own ethnicity and religious ideas, but he assumes that the people he is serving believe that he is superior. "Oh look at how BEAUTIFUL the white baby is" is what Derrick assumes they are saying, rather than "squee a baby!"

[Tiny Bubbles]

Well, maybe, DeFrauder. You know Central America and the culture, so I'll take your word for it that a large "white" blue-eyed baby would not be an unusual sight throughout those countries, or at least where the Dillards are located, wherever that is.

(Honestly, I still don't think it would be unusual at all for people there to comment on him. But I get your point that Central America is culturally diverse and to assume everyone is very rural and out-of-touch enough to be amazed by Izz is neither respectful nor accurate. Thank you for reminding me of that.)

I'm definitely uneasy with your telling us what Derick thinks, though. I think Derick's writing skills are poor and his cultural sensitivity doesn't exactly shine through. How can we really know what he thinks and assumes?

[Imagine20]

The thing is though that Central America is populated with a fair amount of white people. Maybe not all as white as the Dillards, but it would totally not be the first time anyone had seen white people. Especially if they are hanging around the mission for whatever reason. Plus, Latin American TV and media is full of "white" people, which has to do with their own internal racism problem. It is similar to the USA where television and other media does not represent the full ethnic diversity of the population and instead over represents people that resemble northern Europeans.

Part of the issue here is that Derrick THINKS that the people in this town are so unsophisticated that they are so excited to see a white baby, or worse, that they value the white baby over any regular old baby they have swaddled up around town. In my opinion, that is the danger in missionaries like him. Not only does he assume superiority for his own ethnicity and religious ideas, but he assumes that the people he is serving believe that he is superior. "Oh look at how BEAUTIFUL the white baby is" is what Derrick assumes they are saying, rather than "squee a baby!"

The phrasing he used seemed like a racist dog whistle to me, that's why it stood out. I think he does think he's better than the lowly people in poor countries. When you think about it, having such a superiority complex is quite the liability in an area of the world full of crime. I'm sure he assumes nothing could possibly happen to either of them.

Yes, I've been noticed for being white while in Asia. Once, I was at an aquarium with my in-laws and I started noticing the same people going by me and staring and some were trying to be all sly with their picture taking. I looked really confused and then my sister in law laughed and said "They think you're Saudi!" (I was wearing hijab.) When this happens around the world, I don't think it has anything to do with white being better, it's just white is different.

[doggie]

They have the same superior attitude at home too. But the don't do missing work here you notice they know people will talk back to them

[DeFrauder]

Well, maybe, DeFrauder. You know Central America and the culture, so I'll take your word for it that a large "white" blue-eyed baby would not be an unusual sight throughout those countries, or at least where the Dillards are located, wherever that is.

(Honestly, I still don't think it would be unusual at all for people there to comment on him. But I get your point that Central America is culturally diverse and to assume everyone is very rural and out-of-touch enough to be amazed by Izz is neither respectful nor accurate. Thank you for reminding me of that.)

I'm definitely uneasy with your telling us what Derick thinks, though. I think Derick's writing skills are poor and his cultural sensitivity doesn't exactly shine through. How can we really know what he thinks and assumes?

To clarify, I don't mean that IZZY would not look unusual. He probably does look unusual. I mean that they are not in awe of Izzy because he is white or admiring him because he is white. They might be extra interested in him because he is paler than average, and that is something different to look at.

In fact, I was on a month long trip once where white people were actually few and far between. When I got home, I kept staring at my husband because he looked so pale. It looked like he was glowing, even, which was really weird because we have been married 25 years and I never noticed this before (haha!). This super glowey paleness went away after a few hours, but it taught me that different ethnic groups can look very unusual to each other based on what they are used to seeing. And the differences disappear after prolonged contact with an unusual looking person.

I only asserted what I believe he thinks because of what he has said. Plus, it is a common way for people to think. It is not the best way to think, but a lot of people think that way. It is due to institutionalized racism. Derrick probably does not overtly believe that one ethnicity is superior to another, but there are a lot of attitudes that some people have not figured out are racist yet. Missionaries being admired for their whiteness is one of those attitudes and wherever colonized peoples get the idea that white is better it is because the colonists taught them that.

But, yes, you are correct. I am not psychic so I can't read Derrick's mind. So I will edit it to say I think that Derrick thinks this.

[DeFrauder]

While I do agree that the "blue-eyed, white baby" comment was not in good taste, I can see where they are coming from. I went to Mexico in college with a friend who has red hair. Everywhere we went people were always coming up to him and touching his hair.

I have noticed that Mexicans are really interested in red hair. A lot of women dye their hair red.

They also have this famous red haired boxer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%C3%BAl_%C3%81lvarez

[Tiny Bubbles]

To clarify, I don't mean that IZZY would not look unusual. He probably does look unusual. I mean that they are not in awe of Izzy because he is white or admiring him because he is white. They might be extra interested in him because he is paler than average, and that is something different to look at.

... /SNIP

Well, we are on the same page, then, because that is all I have ever meant as well. I can easily imagine people noticing and commenting on Izzy. What strikes me as "off" is Derick's commentary.

Of all the things that you can do to help genuinely needy people - people who may have substandard housing and sanitation, unclean water, reduced access to education and medical care, take your pick of needs - to enter their lives solely to help them to see the God that you want them to see is just tragic. Stop this foolish crap, Derick and Jill. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Mama Mia]

Well, we are on the same page, then, because that is all I have ever meant as well. I can easily imagine people noticing and commenting on Izzy. What strikes me as "off" is Derick's commentary.

Of all the things that you can do to help genuinely needy people - people who may have substandard housing and sanitation, unclean water, reduced access to education and medical care, take your pick of needs - to enter their lives solely to help them to see the God that you want them to see is just tragic. Stop this foolish crap, Derick and Jill. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

It really didn't sound , to me, like Derrik's very brief comment was meant as some sort of racist " look at how in awe of the white savior baby they are" statement. That seems to be projecting, a lot. ( not aimed at person I'm quoting, just following the conversation stream ) .

He IS unusually large. He IS unusually fair skinned for the area. It IS more unusual to have blue eyes in that area. I don't see how people commenting on that is any different than commenting on a baby with red hair, or lots of hair or big brown eyes?

If he's in an area where his particular baby traits stand out more, of course those traits are more likely to get commented on more. People like babies. People like to gush over them. How does Derrik saying what the comments are make him a racist? It just makes him kind of clumsy in the wording.

One of my daughters is particularly petite. When she was a baby if I was at a park filled with mostly white parents and babies I'd get more comments on what a tiny little thing she was. If I was at a park with mostly Latino parents and babies, I wouldn't get as many comments on her size. Because she just wasn't as tiny, on average, comparatively. That doesn't seem like a big deal.

[Guest]

I have decided that I want the Dillards missionary to have the complete opposite effect - I want them to come back as pants wearing, natural family planning, Pope Francis loving Catholics with a new mission in their hearts to help the poor here in America and around the world. I feel like Jill would thrive on that kind of thing. I would also like to see Ben lose his mind over the Catholics invading his family.

[formergothardite]

I have decided that I want the Dillards missionary to have the complete opposite effect - I want them to come back as pants wearing, natural family planning, Pope Francis loving Catholics with a new mission in their hearts to help the poor here in America and around the world. I feel like Jill would thrive on that kind of thing. I would also like to see Ben lose his mind over the Catholics invading his family.

Like Daniel Everett? He went to the Amazon to convert a tribe to Christianity and they ended up converting him.

The Duggars would flip out if one of their kids became a Catholic. :lol:

[ophelia]

I have decided that I want the Dillards missionary to have the complete opposite effect - I want them to come back as pants wearing, natural family planning, Pope Francis loving Catholics with a new mission in their hearts to help the poor here in America and around the world. I feel like Jill would thrive on that kind of thing. I would also like to see Ben lose his mind over the Catholics invading his family.

That would be HILARIOUS!!!! And it would be the cherry on the cake if Jill decided to pursue a degree is midwifery and their kids would go to public school!

This would bring so many Duggar and Seewald heads to explode.

[somanybooks]

If they are, in fact, in El Salvador under the auspices of SOS ministries then the local population certainly has seen many white people. Just think of the revolving door of vacationaries who cycle thru there every year.

[Alicja]

I really do like Jill and Derick, but going to Central America seems a bit... off to me, because the population is heavily Catholic. Who knows, maybe it'll be a good experience for them! I hope they're actually helping people and not trying to convert people from Christianity to Christianity.

I also hope they convert to Catholicism! That would be so great. I feel like Jill would really be into the veneration of The Blessed Mother and all the saints.

[ClaraOswin]

I don't foresee them deciding to be Catholic at all. They will keep their beliefs. Speculation - They will try to convert people for a year-ish. They will come 'home' once Jill is pregnant again. Maybe not until the very end of her pregnancy though. Once that kid is a few months old, I could see them going out and doing missionary work again until another pregnancy. Over and over.

[gemma]

I hope they do good things down there, but they are not going to convert to Catholicism. And, yes, they are trying to convert Catholics to their brand of Christianity. They are missionaries. That's why they went. They are there to "save souls" and do not consider Catholics saved like they are.

[justoneoftwo]

I find it weird how many people are commenting about how they are converting people who are already christian. Would it be less insulting if the people they were harassing weren't Catholic?

[MarcyMM]

I find it weird how many people are commenting about how they are converting people who are already christian. Would it be less insulting if the people they were harassing weren't Catholic?

In my opinion, no. I find it insulting when anyone of any religion goes to another country (or anywhere) for the sole purpose of changing people's beliefs/value systems.

[socalrules]

I find it weird how many people are commenting about how they are converting people who are already christian. Would it be less insulting if the people they were harassing weren't Catholic?

It has nothing to do with just Catholics, it is insulting to go anywhere in the world and try to change a person's belief system because it is not exactly like yours, regardless of what that person's religion may be. It is just ridiculous to say you are bringing Jesus to people who already believe in Jesus. People are bringing up Catholicism because the Dillards are ministering in a place that is majority Catholic. It is almost passive agressive ministering. They aren't going to teach people anything they don't already know. It's just the Dillards have decided they are not Christian so they must not know the right way to believe in Jesus. It's lazy "ministering". People would still be all over them if they were trying to convert Buddhists. It's the idea that the only way they believe they can help someone is to convert them to their version of religion. They couldn't care less about helping someone get food, shelter or an education. They couldn't care less that another's religion may be a fundamental part of who they are and their culture as well. They have no idea that religion can be about more than just someone's denomination of faith.

[mstee]

I'll never understand their "save the Catholics!" mentality. It just seems so absurd and ridiculous and redundant. They're going to a Christian nation to convert them to their brand of Christianity. They just need to shut up and build some schools or health clinics.

[lascuba]

Totally random question, but talking about annoying missionaries made me think of Mormons and now I'm wondering if fundies feel the same level of disdain for Mormonism that they do for Catholicism. Or does Mormonism get more of a pass because it started in the same way (I'm hugely simplifying here) that Protestantism did with breaking away from the established hierarchy?

[ClaraOswin]

In my opinion, no. I find it insulting when anyone of any religion goes to another country (or anywhere) for the sole purpose of changing people's beliefs/value systems.

Same here. I don't try to change other people's religious or spiritual beliefs into the same as mine. I think it's polite if they do the same. Of course, these types of christians are all about converting people. It's annoying. I don't really need some random dude coming up to me at the gas station to ask if I have Christ in my life.

[MarcyMM]

Totally random question, but talking about annoying missionaries made me think of Mormons and now I'm wondering if fundies feel the same level of disdain for Mormonism that they do for Catholicism. Or does Mormonism get more of a pass because it started in the same way (I'm hugely simplifying here) that Protestantism did with breaking away from the established hierarchy?

I've wondered the same thing. Mormons also send their children on mandatory missions when they reach a certain age, don't they?