Ben Seewald Protector of womans virtue.

[CuttySark]

Good call. It is now headcanon that Onan had a nice younger brother who was single who married her, and they were so happy together he never took another wife. :D

Defrauder's right -- the Jewish interpretation (at least the one I got at Hebrew school!) is that Onan disobeyed God and was punished for his selfishness -- Onan didn't want his brother's line to continue, because then he'd end up with more of the inheritance.

And there was a third brother Biblically! (Genesis 38:1-30) But he was just a kid, so Judah (Onan's dad, older brother of Joseph of technicolor Dreamcoat fame) told Tamar that she wasn't going to marry him. She stayed in Judah's household until the kid was old enough, and Judah still wouldn't obey the law. This is huge, because having an heir would have been what gave Tamar economic stability. They didn't have much in the way of widow's pensions back then, so Judah was basically condemning his daughter in law to live under his charity forever.

Except Tamar was one hell of a baller, and she said 'screw this bull****.' She dressed in veils like a pagan temple prostitute, and she went and sat in the road where Judah walked. He saw her, propositioned her, and didn't recognize her because she kept her face veiled. He didn't have the money to pay her like she asked, so she got his signet as surety until he came back the next day.

SO Judah gets his thing done with the pretty call girl and wanders off home feeling all manly, until the next day -- he goes back with the fee to get his ring, and the prostitute's gone. No-one in the area's ever even heard of this girl.

Then a couple of months later, Tamar, his good little widowed daughter in law, turns up pregnant. Oops! He goes after her for being a slut and stuff, and she tells him that the owner of the signet is her babydaddy.

It's all very Maury Show for a bit, and finally Judah admits that he was a jerk, Tamar did the right thing, she's got an heir of his family line now, and let's all just forget this ever happened.

She ends up having male twins. One of them, Perez, is a direct ancestor of King David, and then, for the Christians, Jesus.

(Hi! First post. I've been lurking for literally years, but finally signed up just to reply to this one. ;) )

[VelociRapture]

I'm not Jewish so I could be mistaken, but I belive that's the Jewish interpretation. Onan's sin was disobeying god, it was not the seed spilling.

True story - I'm not even Jewish and that's how I've always viewed the story. God gave him an order. He disobeyed. So God got all smitey. :lol:

Defrauder's right -- the Jewish interpretation (at least the one I got at Hebrew school!) is that Onan disobeyed God and was punished for his selfishness -- Onan didn't want his brother's line to continue, because then he'd end up with more of the inheritance.

And there was a third brother Biblically! (Genesis 38:1-30) But he was just a kid, so Judah (Onan's dad, older brother of Joseph of technicolor Dreamcoat fame) told Tamar that she wasn't going to marry him. She stayed in Judah's household until the kid was old enough, and Judah still wouldn't obey the law. This is huge, because having an heir would have been what gave Tamar economic stability. They didn't have much in the way of widow's pensions back then, so Judah was basically condemning his daughter in law to live under his charity forever.

Except Tamar was one hell of a baller, and she said 'screw this bull****.' She dressed in veils like a pagan temple prostitute, and she went and sat in the road where Judah walked. He saw her, propositioned her, and didn't recognize her because she kept her face veiled. He didn't have the money to pay her like she asked, so she got his signet as surety until he came back the next day.

SO Judah gets his thing done with the pretty call girl and wanders off home feeling all manly, until the next day -- he goes back with the fee to get his ring, and the prostitute's gone. No-one in the area's ever even heard of this girl.

Then a couple of months later, Tamar, his good little widowed daughter in law, turns up pregnant. Oops! He goes after her for being a slut and stuff, and she tells him that the owner of the signet is her babydaddy.

It's all very Maury Show for a bit, and finally Judah admits that he was a jerk, Tamar did the right thing, she's got an heir of his family line now, and let's all just forget this ever happened.

She ends up having male twins. One of them, Perez, is a direct ancestor of King David, and then, for the Christians, Jesus.

(Hi! First post. I've been lurking for literally years, but finally signed up just to reply to this one. ;) )

I remember reading that part recently. My reaction was halfway between :popcorn2: and :wtf: .

My reaction to what Lot's daughters did was just pure :wtf: though. That shit is messed up!

[ShepherdontheRock]

Speaking of Maury show bible drama, what about the Rachel, Leah, and Jacob love triangle/baby war? Ain't that some drama?

[Alicja]

Speaking of Maury show bible drama, what about the Rachel, Leah, and Jacob love triangle/baby war? Ain't that some drama?

That was fucked up. Why did Laban swap Rachel for Leah again?

[browncoatslytherin]

That was fucked up. Why did Laban swap Rachel for Leah again?

leah was older and not as pretty. she turned out to be a helluva lot more fertile, though.

[VelociRapture]

leah was older and not as pretty. she turned out to be a helluva lot more fertile, though.

That was only because God saw that Jacob favored Rachel over Leah, so he made Leah more fertile to punish Jacob. For some reason he thought it was super cool to punish Rachel as well, despite the situation not being her fault. I'm still trying to work that one out. :lol:

That was fucked up. Why did Laban swap Rachel for Leah again?

In Laban's culture, it was proper for the eldest daughter to be married off first. Leah was the elder of the two girls and was unmarried, so Laban simply swapped one for another and just didn't tell Jacob. Talk about douche moves!

[VelociRapture]

Can we also talk about how messed up it was for Sarah to tell Abraham to sleep with her servant so he could have a son - only to have her turn around ten years later, after she gave birth to Isaac, and demand that he turn them out into the fucking desert? And then he did turn his child and the child's mom out into the desert?!

I don't care how much the voice in the clouds tells you they'll be fine - that is Worst Father Material right there (along with, you know, attempting to sacrifice your other son)!

[browncoatslytherin]

That was only because God saw that Jacob favored Rachel over Leah, so he made Leah more fertile to punish Jacob. For some reason he thought it was super cool to punish Rachel as well, despite the situation not being her fault. I'm still trying to work that one out. :lol:

cuz it's always the fault of the womens dontchaknow. that hussy.

[formergothardite]

Defrauder's right -- the Jewish interpretation (at least the one I got at Hebrew school!) is that Onan disobeyed God and was punished for his selfishness -- Onan didn't want his brother's line to continue, because then he'd end up with more of the inheritance.

And there was a third brother Biblically! (Genesis 38:1-30) But he was just a kid, so Judah (Onan's dad, older brother of Joseph of technicolor Dreamcoat fame) told Tamar that she wasn't going to marry him. She stayed in Judah's household until the kid was old enough, and Judah still wouldn't obey the law. This is huge, because having an heir would have been what gave Tamar economic stability. They didn't have much in the way of widow's pensions back then, so Judah was basically condemning his daughter in law to live under his charity forever.

Except Tamar was one hell of a baller, and she said 'screw this bull****.' She dressed in veils like a pagan temple prostitute, and she went and sat in the road where Judah walked. He saw her, propositioned her, and didn't recognize her because she kept her face veiled. He didn't have the money to pay her like she asked, so she got his signet as surety until he came back the next day.

SO Judah gets his thing done with the pretty call girl and wanders off home feeling all manly, until the next day -- he goes back with the fee to get his ring, and the prostitute's gone. No-one in the area's ever even heard of this girl.

Then a couple of months later, Tamar, his good little widowed daughter in law, turns up pregnant. Oops! He goes after her for being a slut and stuff, and she tells him that the owner of the signet is her babydaddy.

It's all very Maury Show for a bit, and finally Judah admits that he was a jerk, Tamar did the right thing, she's got an heir of his family line now, and let's all just forget this ever happened.

She ends up having male twins. One of them, Perez, is a direct ancestor of King David, and then, for the Christians, Jesus.

(Hi! First post. I've been lurking for literally years, but finally signed up just to reply to this one. ;) )

This story made for some very odd sermons. :lol: Children's church only went till age 5 or 6 when I was a kid so the church would be full of children and the pastor would preach on this passage being very vague about "spilling seed", prostitution and getting pregnant by a father in law. I was like 14 when it dawned on me what actually happened in this story. :embarrassed:

[Alicja]

That was only because God saw that Jacob favored Rachel over Leah, so he made Leah more fertile to punish Jacob. For some reason he thought it was super cool to punish Rachel as well, despite the situation not being her fault. I'm still trying to work that one out. :lol:

In Laban's culture, it was proper for the eldest daughter to be married off first. Leah was the elder of the two girls and was unmarried, so Laban simply swapped one for another and just didn't tell Jacob. Talk about douche moves!

Ah, now I remember. JB isn't following that rule. Have you no shame, Boob? You can't just cherrypick the Bible and choose the parts you only like! :nenner:

[Alicja]

Can we also talk about how messed up it was for Sarah to tell Abraham to sleep with her servant so he could have a son - only to have her turn around ten years later, after she gave birth to Isaac, and demand that he turn them out into the fucking desert? And then he did turn his child and the child's mom out into the desert?!

I don't care how much the voice in the clouds tells you they'll be fine - that is Worst Father Material right there (along with, you know, attempting to sacrifice your other son)!

Sarah was his half-sister, apparently? Also, he pimped out Sarah to the Pharaoh in (Gen. 12:14-17) and (Gen. 12:18-20). Pharaoh only kicked them out when he found out Sarah was married. Talk about grifting.

[CuttySark]

As I understand it, Abraham lied to Pharaoh and told him Sarah was his sister, because he was worried that if he said she was his wife, Pharaoh would have him executed in order to take Sarah for himself. I'm pretty sure she's not actually related to him. At least no closer than a cousin, but that seems to have been par for the course back then. :shifty-kitty:

[Alicja]

As I understand it, Abraham lied to Pharaoh and told him Sarah was his sister, because he was worried that if he said she was his wife, Pharaoh would have him executed in order to take Sarah for himself. I'm pretty sure she's not actually related to him. At least no closer than a cousin, but that seems to have been par for the course back then. :shifty-kitty:

Abraham was the original grifter. No wonder where the Duggars get it :lol:

[ShepherdontheRock]

Ah, now I remember. JB isn't following that rule. Have you no shame, Boob? You can't just cherrypick the Bible and choose the parts you only like! :nenner:

Well, Jacob ended up better than boob. After stealing a blessing by pretending to be his brother, Esau, he ends up with Leah, then ends up with Rachel too, then gets to have sex with both their maidservants. And has a lot of kids.

Boob could have learned a thing or two from Jacob.

Guess that's why no Jacob Duggar.

[Trynn]

I always thought tod made Leah super fertile to make up for th fact that she was unloved, not to punish Jacob. If you read the bi me passage, she keeps saying "now that I've had sons, my husband will love me!"

[VelociRapture]

I always thought tod made Leah super fertile to make up for th fact that she was unloved, not to punish Jacob. If you read the bi me passage, she keeps saying "now that I've had sons, my husband will love me!"

I tend to think its a bit of both to be honest - to help make Leah feel better and to teach Jacob a lesson. It always struck me as such a stupid way of doing it though - Rachel didn't do anything wrong, so why should she be punished by not having children for so long?

[Alicja]

I tend to think its a bit of both to be honest - to help make Leah feel better and to teach Jacob a lesson. It always struck me as such a stupid way of doing it though - Rachel didn't do anything wrong, so why should she be punished by not having children for so long?

I think Rachel was punished because she was getting jealous of Leah having all of Jacob's children, and God thought that was a big no-no.

[VelociRapture]

I think Rachel was punished because she was getting jealous of Leah having all of Jacob's children, and God thought that was a big no-no.

Ugh. No offense to anyone here (seriously) - but God was such an asshole in the Old Testament! He didn't cause the initial problem (that was Laban's doing), but he exacerbated it by only letting Leah have kids - and then God is all surprised because Rachel is jealous?! Really?! :penguin-no:

[browncoatslytherin]

Ugh. No offense to anyone here (seriously) - but God was such an asshole in the Old Testament! He didn't cause the initial problem (that was Laban's doing), but he exacerbated it by only letting Leah have kids - and then God is all surprised because Rachel is jealous?! Really?! :penguin-no:

humans are humans, whodathunkit? besides, you know, an all-powerful being...

[Alicja]

Ugh. No offense to anyone here (seriously) - but God was such an asshole in the Old Testament! He didn't cause the initial problem (that was Laban's doing), but he exacerbated it by only letting Leah have kids - and then God is all surprised because Rachel is jealous?! Really?! :penguin-no:

He was a huge douche and for like, no reason whatsoever! Like, what the fuck, dude.