CA Vaccine Law - Pt 2 - Now W/arguments about everything!

[halcionne]

Ok so....

Kinda not sure where to start.

Looking up the word ghetto - I should not have used it.

I should say Vallejo is not rich and is dangerous. Is there a word for that?

I stated in last thread that there is a part of Vallejo that is so dangerous police won't even go there

Also I know wealth is relative.

Personally I do go to Vallejo- I have a season pass to six flags-

Some parts are nicer than others- sure- but no part of Vallejo is rich.

( if you have a better way into looking a quality of neighborhoods please let me know.but imma use schools)

I mentioned before that I view el ceritto as okayyyyy ( but the lowest place I would feel safe living). I said schools normally about a 6. This was just from house shopping on Zillow.

Well I actually looked it up on great schools

And city rating is a 5 but one school has a 9. (/so has a nice pocket)

Vallejo tho? Average is a 4 with no school better than

A 6 :(

So not all terrible- but trying to say its all wealthy people who arnt vaccinating isn't really fair.

So you're suggesting there's a lot of anti-vax sentiment in Vallejo. Why not provide some stats? I haven't looked it up and I'm not actually in this thread for vax wars, which is why I came in late and was behind.

You're coming off a little snooty (it could just be me; I'm sensitive about these things) about class issues and I wonder why you're so quick to defend higher income groups over lower ones. Here is where I admit that I have a fair amount of ...opinions about "rich folks," my personal definition of which is anyone with more income than me, which is everybody a job, since I'm unemployed. :lol: So yeah, I'm biased. Also, jmo, but I wouldn't consider a preschool teacher rich--omg I've just contradicted myself again :doh: --so now I'm wondering if you are maybe a little bit in denial (I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm sorry I'm not sure how to phrase this more nicely) about which income quintile you fall into around here. Funny story: I was born and raised on welfare, and for some ridiculous reason I thought my family was middle class until I was an adult and actually THOUGHT about it. Growing up on welfare is practically the definition of underclass, but "underclass" wasn't a term I heard much until 5 or 10 years ago.

I lived in Richmond, CA in the late 90s and Richmond has quite a reputation for crime, poverty, bad schools, etc, but there are nicer areas, too (the whole city is better now, I think, than it was 15 or so years ago). And Vallejo has waaay nicer areas, iirc, I'm not very familiar with Vallejo. I'm rambling again; you hit a nerve, that's all.

*btw Oakland is awesome and if you don't go because you're afraid of [social problem], you're missing out.

[happy atheist]

They're coming after adults now. http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces ... 20160SB792

Quit fearmongering, you asshole.

This bill, commencing September 1, 2016, would prohibit a day care center or a family day care home from employing any person who has not been immunized against influenza, pertussis, and measles. The bill would specify circumstances under which a person would be exempt from the immunization requirement, based on medical safety, current immunity, declining the influenza vaccination, or the date upon which he or she was hired, as specified. The bill would make conforming changes to provisions that set forth qualifications for day care center teachers and applicants for licensure as a family day care home. Because the bill would extend the application of a crime under the act, the bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

"They're coming after adults now!!!1!!1" makes it sound like they're hunting people down in the streets with vaccination guns, and giving them experimental medical treatments.

I've worked in day care and I had to be up to date on my vaccinations. I was also required to get a TB test. Big fucking whoop. I have no problem at all saying that people who work closely with vulnerable populations need to be vaccinated.

Do the world a favor and get the fuck out of healthcare.

[bekahdimples]

I totally didn't suggest that there was a lot of anti-vaxxer in Vallejo- I was given that statistic in the last thread.

And maybe I'm conflicted because I teach the children of extremely wealthy people.

[bekahdimples]

I totally didn't suggest that there was a lot of anti-vaxxer in Vallejo- I was given that statistic in the last thread.

And maybe I'm conflicted because I teach the children of extremely wealthy people.

I've been trying to say its not only the wealthy who don't vaccinate.

Why is that so hard admit?

And why is it okay to deny kids a non home based education when they are rich. Someone above was seriously saying its OK cause those family's are rich.

I don't get it???

Everyone deserves an education.

[Snarkylark]

Quit fearmongering, you asshole.

"They're coming after adults now!!!1!!1" makes it sound like they're hunting people down in the streets with vaccination guns, and giving them experimental medical treatments.

I've worked in day care and I had to be up to date on my vaccinations. I was also required to get a TB test. Big fucking whoop. I have no problem at all saying that people who work closely with vulnerable populations need to be vaccinated.

Do the world a favor and get the fuck out of healthcare.

No, maybe that's how YOU interpreted it because you disagree with me and are trying to find fault with everything I say. Face it, there are people who still believe they should have rights when it comes to their healthcare. You have a right to your opinion, I have a right to mine.

[DarkAnts]

For now, maybe....you never know what will happen.

For all we know someone might bring up a Hittler reference again and not cite other people's published quotes.

For all we know, unicorns really do fart glitter that smells like gum drops.

[Terrie]

For now, maybe....you never know what will happen.

Very true. She could be killed by a clump of blue ice falling from an airplane as she walks out her door tomorrow. :roll:

[Terrie]

For all we know someone might bring up a Hittler reference again and not cite other people's published quotes.

For all we know, unicorns really do fart glitter that smells like gum drops.

Actual conversation from work. Hippo = horse in Greek Mythology. So this lead to the question of unicorn hippos. And how unicorns poop rainbows, but hippos spread their poop EVERYWHERE. Great mental image.

But, yeah, this thread occasionally makes me want to spread rainbows all over it. ;)

:gay-rainbow: :gay-rainbow: :gay-rainbow: :gay-rainbow:

[Snarkylark]

Very true. She could be killed by a clump of blue ice falling from an airplane as she walks out her door tomorrow. :roll:

Bills are modified all the time, things added or removed before they pass.

[nelliebelle1197]

No, maybe that's how YOU interpreted it because you disagree with me and are trying to find fault with everything I say. Face it, there are people who still believe they should have rights when it comes to their healthcare. You have a right to your opinion, I have a right to mine.

And why? Not all opinions are equal. And what your pea brain can't seem to understand is that this is about public health not healthcare. Your "rights" as an individual do not trump the rights of others to be safe from disease. You have yet to address the four or five questions I have asked you about the philosophical construct of the common good, handed down from the Greeks and Rousseau, in which lay the foundations of the concepts of both individual and collective rights in the U.S., and how that plays into your opinion, but you cannot address that.

That is actually the key and the key to the legislation that started this mess, not a bunch of random medical links, most of which you've not even bother to read.

[OkToBeTakei]

I didn't see a mask option. I'm confused because it states the worker can decline the flu vaccine if he or she provides a written statement declining it. I don't see how that's mandatory then but I'm not positive. Why even include it otherwise?

You can only wear a mask if it states clearly, VERY clearly (I read it said going straight for the forehead with sharpie was advisable...no link. Sorry.) FUCKWIT HERE. But for those who found that offensive they suggest ......F*CKWIT.

[FundieFarmer]

No, maybe that's how YOU interpreted it because you disagree with me and are trying to find fault with everything I say. Face it, there are people who still believe they should have rights when it comes to their healthcare. You have a right to your opinion, I have a right to mine.

To be fair to HA, you are fearmongering. You may not see it this way, but HA isn't the only one reading a "OMGZ THEYRE COMING TO GET US ALL !!11!!!!!1!!!" tone in your posts.

For now, maybe....you never know what will happen.

And yes, I know my quote isn't verbatim what you said, but that's the tone that's coming through.

And again, for the forty trillionth time, nobody said people shouldn't have the rights to make their own healthcare decisions (except for possibly you, who's against abortion). We're just advocating putting the community's needs over the individual's desires. There's a difference there.

Also, WalkingCatBed, I cried of laughter at your post. :clap:

[Petrel]

Those bunionectomies are sure controversial... :lol:

What?!? I was thinking tonsillectomies! How could you even go there? I'm reporting this post.

[zebra #13]

I have a friend who uses almond flour for everything. I think she has a bread recipe. Will ask.

thank you! Thank you!! THANK YOU!!! xox

[Snarkylark]

And why? Not all opinions are equal. And what your pea brain can't seem to understand is that this is about public health not healthcare. Your "rights" as an individual do not trump the rights of others to be safe from disease. You have yet to address the four or five questions I have asked you about the philosophical construct of the common good, handed down from the Greeks and Rousseau, in which lay the foundations of the concepts of both individual and collective rights in the U.S., and how that plays into your opinion, but you cannot address that.

That is actually the key and the key to the legislation that started this mess, not a bunch of random medical links, most of which you've not even bother to read.

I do understand the public health side of it, but I still don't agree with forcing vaccinations. I'm not sure what questions you're asking. I honestly don't remember seeing posts about Greeks, etc. but the thread moved fast and I must have missed it. I don't know anything about that. I'm not going to pretend that I do.

[DarkAnts]

Actual conversation from work. Hippo = horse in Greek Mythology. So this lead to the question of unicorn hippos. And how unicorns poop rainbows, but hippos spread their poop EVERYWHERE. Great mental image.

But, yeah, this thread occasionally makes me want to spread rainbows all over it. ;)

:gay-rainbow: :gay-rainbow: :gay-rainbow: :gay-rainbow:

You need this shirt! I have one and love it.

http://shirt.woot.com/offers/be-what-yo ... tlg_dgn_23

[Terrie]

SnarkyLark,

You also never answered my comments about the hygiene hypothesis and Autoimmune disorders, and current studies looking at Helminthic therapy. If you can't follow the conversation here, why the hell should we give any credit to your commentary on medical and/or legal issues, both of which are extremely complex fields?

[Walking Cat Bed]

No, maybe that's how YOU interpreted it because you disagree with me and are trying to find fault with everything I say. Face it, there are people who still believe they should have rights when it comes to their healthcare. You have a right to your opinion, I have a right to mine.

Other people interpreting information differently than you (incorrectly) interpret it is not fucking persecution or bullying.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I do understand the public health side of it, but I still don't agree with forcing vaccinations. I'm not sure what questions you're asking. I honestly don't remember seeing posts about Greeks, etc. but the thread moved fast and I must have missed it. I don't know anything about that. I'm not going to pretend that I do.

Are you joking? She's talking about philosophy not some random greek guy. Or better some greek guy called Socrates or Platon.

Jokes aside. Here to work in helthcare you have to take courses on professional ethics, we call those deontologia professionale, I think in the USA you also have them. Professional ethics include some basic philosophy in particular ethics so maybe you should know about "the Greeks" and Rousseau, and maybe you can use this knowledge to answer to those who question your professional ethics in relation to your job and your opinions.

[RosyDaisy]

My roommate's cat fights against going to the vet and getting his annual vaccines. Thus, vaccines cause tantrums.

My roommate's cat is also illiterate, because he is a cat. Thus, vaccines cause illiteracy.

Gee, my feline headship doesn't have tantrums, therefore, your wrong. Stop spreading false info......LOL!

[morfydd]

Going back a long way in the previous thread, Snarkylark posted this link: fee.org/freeman/detail/national-health-care-medicine-in-germany-1918-1945 and I had to comment (ok, rant) about it.

The premise is that national health care led to terrible things in the service of Naziism, with the clear implication that national health care will lead to Naziism here. The organization (Foundation foe Economic Education) is explicitly set up to argue against the social safety net in every form, and it's using some cheap rhetoric against Obamacare as it's in the news.

First, the article starts with a relatively non-controversial history of the German health care system - which was started in the 1880s and continues largely unchanged today AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HITLER. (Sorry for the caps, I've seen a few too many FB memes thinking Hitler started it.)

Then it starts talking about Social Darwinism's influence on the medical profession (and of course must include a backhand to Darwin himself, who would have been horrified by Social Darwinism). Yes, German scientists believed in Social Darwinism. So did American scientists. So did the British scientists, who came up with the whole idea. :lol:

However, note what we've stopped talking about? The health care system. Was it staffed by racist/SD jerks? Probably. But the article doesn't have anything to support that premise so it's very carefully elided.

Then it goes on to talk about atrocities in concentration camps. Those were terrible. Those were again, not the national health care system. Did the organizations and doctors in the national health care system support the Nazi racism and injure people because of that? Probably. But again, the article states nothing to support that.

There could be an interesting discussion about what happens to government-influenced organizations when the government goes batshit crazy, or when their science is overridden by ideology - and whether relative independence would help there. But that's really not what the article is interested in - it's interested in comparing Obamacare to Nazis to score political points.

BTW, Wikipedia tells me that FEE's former director of seminars is Gary North. Yeah, THAT Gary North, the Christian Reconstructionist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_North_(economist)

tl;dr: This article is a meandering propaganda piece from a right-wing propaganda factory staffed by everything that FJ hates. It's unclear what snarkylark thought it would add to the discussion. :wtf:

[Irishy]

DP met a 38 year old woman today through his job (health services) with an acquired brain injury from a dose of measles aged 10. Her mother told him how her perfect bubbly child almost died and has spent the rest of her life with profound intellectual disability.

That is all.

[happy atheist]

Going back a long way in the previous thread, Snarkylark posted this link: fee.org/freeman/detail/national-health-care-medicine-in-germany-1918-1945 and I had to comment (ok, rant) about it.

The premise is that national health care led to terrible things in the service of Naziism, with the clear implication that national health care will lead to Naziism here. The organization (Foundation foe Economic Education) is explicitly set up to argue against the social safety net in every form, and it's using some cheap rhetoric against Obamacare as it's in the news.

First, the article starts with a relatively non-controversial history of the German health care system - which was started in the 1880s and continues largely unchanged today AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HITLER. (Sorry for the caps, I've seen a few too many FB memes thinking Hitler started it.)

Then it starts talking about Social Darwinism's influence on the medical profession (and of course must include a backhand to Darwin himself, who would have been horrified by Social Darwinism). Yes, German scientists believed in Social Darwinism. So did American scientists. So did the British scientists, who came up with the whole idea. :lol:

However, note what we've stopped talking about? The health care system. Was it staffed by racist/SD jerks? Probably. But the article doesn't have anything to support that premise so it's very carefully elided.

Then it goes on to talk about atrocities in concentration camps. Those were terrible. Those were again, not the national health care system. Did the organizations and doctors in the national health care system support the Nazi racism and injure people because of that? Probably. But again, the article states nothing to support that.

There could be an interesting discussion about what happens to government-influenced organizations when the government goes batshit crazy, or when their science is overridden by ideology - and whether relative independence would help there. But that's really not what the article is interested in - it's interested in comparing Obamacare to Nazis to score political points.

BTW, Wikipedia tells me that FEE's former director of seminars is Gary North. Yeah, THAT Gary North, the Christian Reconstructionist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_North_(economist)

tl;dr: This article is a meandering propaganda piece from a right-wing propaganda factory staffed by everything that FJ hates. It's unclear what snarkylark thought it would add to the discussion. :wtf:

It's perfectly clear what snarkylark thought it would add to the discussion: fear and misinformation.

I bet you a donut that she comes back and claims that she didn't actually read this article, and never said that it was a reliable source.

[Terrie]

Non-socialist medicine in the US was no better than Germany. Even when we moved away from forced sterilization of "undesirables," we still heavily pushed (and in some quarters STILL push) "positive eugenics" where the "right" type of people are encouraged to breed over the "wrong" type of people. Just look at all the lamenting of how educated, well-to-do white people tend to have fewer kids than blue collar brown people if you think that's a complete relic of the past.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Gee, my feline headship doesn't have tantrums, therefore, your wrong. Stop spreading false info......LOL!

Well, your cat is WEIRD.

(My kitten -- the one you see there? Has been trying to convince me and my roommate that she CAN SO read. She's a book thief.)