4th of July at Elissa and Joe Maxwells

[sparkles]

Steveovah and Teri raised Sarah with the idea that she would be a wife and mother. That's the only appropriate role they see for a woman and they probably raised her honestly expecting that would happen. However, the reality of her being a wife and mother is obviously a different thing. Because that means letting her go out from under their roof and their control, letting another man be in charge of their daughter. By the time Sarah was old enough for marriage, Steveovah had gone too far down the rabbithole and his need for total control had consumed him entirely. He needs total control of his children even when they are out of his home, and he wants to be absolutely sure that Sarah will marry a guy that meets his completely impossible and contradictory standards. He needs to control every aspect and that is why Sarah stays home, waiting, waiting, waiting.

Sarah is attractive and appears to be a sweet person. There has to have been guys interested in her but it's obvious that none of them have made it past Steve. The sad thing is that their fundie circle, most guys her age are already married with families, there's not many prospects out there now. Many here at FJ mention how the light has gone out of her eyes. I can't speak to it myself but I would not be surprised that Sarah has struggled with watching prospective suitors move on with their lives. She's got to have liked someone at some point and known that there was somebody interested in her only to get chased off. And here she is.

But when would she even have the opportunity meet someone? They aren't around long enough at conferences and they seem to be discouraged from speaking to men, at least without supervision, so if anything, her attraction would be based on what? The same thing, I guess, that initially attracts most of us unsaved souls…looks. So really, if that's the case, they're just as shallow as the rest of us (not that we are but you get where I'm going…). In any event, I can't see any of the women coming forward to propose a possible mate for dad to vet. Just isn't done. Steve would definitely have to be approached and since a potential husband isn't as malleable as a potential wife, he's probably vetoed more than one.

I think the chances of Sarah finding a mate from her age group are pretty slim. If anything, I can see a late-30s Sarah marrying a somewhat older widower with children and settling into more of a caretaker role and not necessarily a wifely one, with all of that messy sex stuff. She's so settled in her life now, it probably wouldn't be as difficult a transition.

[Justme]

Now they have Mary (19 in Aug) and Anna (23ish) who also need husbands. I think even the other funnies arr starting to wonder why none of the 3 daughters are married.

[Maggie Mae]

Steveovah and Teri raised Sarah with the idea that she would be a wife and mother. That's the only appropriate role they see for a woman and they probably raised her honestly expecting that would happen. However, the reality of her being a wife and mother is obviously a different thing. Because that means letting her go out from under their roof and their control, letting another man be in charge of their daughter. By the time Sarah was old enough for marriage, Steveovah had gone too far down the rabbithole and his need for total control had consumed him entirely. He needs total control of his children even when they are out of his home, and he wants to be absolutely sure that Sarah will marry a guy that meets his completely impossible and contradictory standards. He needs to control every aspect and that is why Sarah stays home, waiting, waiting, waiting.

Sarah is attractive and appears to be a sweet person. There has to have been guys interested in her but it's obvious that none of them have made it past Steve. The sad thing is that their fundie circle, most guys her age are already married with families, there's not many prospects out there now. Many here at FJ mention how the light has gone out of her eyes. I can't speak to it myself but I would not be surprised that Sarah has struggled with watching prospective suitors move on with their lives. She's got to have liked someone at some point and known that there was somebody interested in her only to get chased off. And here she is.

There might not have been any guys. It's been said before, but where would she meet someone?

The other thing (and this COULD be projecting) is that not every attractive girl gets asked out. Sometimes people get overlooked for whatever reason. It happens. It happens in regular schools, and it can certainly happen to the Maxwells who are interacting with the public less than the average Christian.

[nokidsmom]

But when would she even have the opportunity meet someone? They aren't around long enough at conferences and they seem to be discouraged from speaking to men, at least without supervision, so if anything, her attraction would be based on what? The same thing, I guess, that initially attracts most of us unsaved souls…looks. So really, if that's the case, they're just as shallow as the rest of us (not that we are but you get where I'm going…). In any event, I can't see any of the women coming forward to propose a possible mate for dad to vet. Just isn't done. Steve would definitely have to be approached and since a potential husband isn't as malleable as a potential wife, he's probably vetoed more than one.

I think the chances of Sarah finding a mate from her age group are pretty slim. If anything, I can see a late-30s Sarah marrying a somewhat older widower with children and settling into more of a caretaker role and not necessarily a wifely one, with all of that messy sex stuff. She's so settled in her life now, it probably wouldn't be as difficult a transition.

Right, they are not at conferences long enough and then there's the gender segregation too that prevents real conversation so yeah, I think it would be based on looks for her. She's 33, I assume she's been considered marriageable at 18 so that's 15 years where she could have met / seen someone she likes or likes her. Maybe not now as much but perhaps earlier she might have had a chance to talk to someone before the cray cray really took hold of Steve. Who knows, but I think it very likely that more than one suitor approached Steve at least early on.

Agree, that if Sarah got married to an older man that wanted a caretaker rather than a wife, then it would not be a tough transition. But there's still the big challenge for Sarah to even get that kind of marriage in her life: her dad. I have serious doubts that Sarah will get out of Maxhell.

ETA: It's possible that there has been absolutely no one, that happens. I remember years ago reading an article about how some very attractive girls were not getting asked to prom and why that was. So that happens. But somehow I have this feeling and granted it's only a feeling that Sarah did have some potential suitors.

[salex]

In courtship, does it make a difference if she meets anyone? Isn't it all about the Dad's finding one another and introducing their kids. And I suspect with Steve there is some hypergamy stuff going on in his head. It is one thing for his boys to "marry beneath them" and bring their wives up to Maxwell standards, but what man would be equal to the holiness that Steve has instilled in his family. Wouldn't he be risking his daughters' souls to allow them to marry a man who might watch tv or a movie or want his children in sports! Better to keep them safe with him than risk losing control of their souls to an inferior man/family.

[HoneyBunny]

I don't honestly believe that any of the "girls" will get married. Sure, Anna and Mary are younger and so might have more chances but Sarah was younger once too, and it was never allowed to happen. But what seals the deal in my mind was what Teri posted one time (in a Corner, I think) about unmarried SAHDs and she said that her daughters can't imagine living anywhere else but that house if they never marry. Really? They're having those kinds of hopeless conversations? To me, that signaled that the mindset is not really about marriage but instead about living in perpetual sisterhood forever.

Sisterhood is actually an appropriate term. I've always felt that those three girls are living like nuns but without having made a personal choice to do so.

[Grimalkin]

Haha!!

Maybe Sarah will marry a kindly elderly man. Have a nice friendship with him and they will have a genuine fondness for each other. She would take good care of him, become a widow and be left with enough money to become self sufficient.

As far as kids smiling, I was working on a special teacher gift for my son's kindergarten class and took pictures of each kids individually. Most of the grimaced when asked to smile. One kid even said he didn't know how. He is a really cute kid. So they could just be happy kids who have not learned how to smile on demand.

[halcionne]

I've been poking at the Titus 2 about page on the wayback machine and don't see any mention of Sarah becoming her parents' personal cargiver for her instead of marrying (sorry for sloppy inaccurate reference; I wasn't quite awake when I read it a couple of pages back). Her bio consistently reports that she finished homeschool in 2000,has written 2/3/4 books and is the "photographer" of the family.

The Maxwells were even more beige back in 2006-2008 than they are now. I guess they got some color into the frumpers before completely abandoning them. :lol:

[nokidsmom]

In courtship, does it make a difference if she meets anyone? Isn't it all about the Dad's finding one another and introducing their kids. And I suspect with Steve there is some hypergamy stuff going on in his head. It is one thing for his boys to "marry beneath them" and bring their wives up to Maxwell standards, but what man would be equal to the holiness that Steve has instilled in his family. Wouldn't he be risking his daughters' souls to allow them to marry a man who might watch tv or a movie or want his children in sports! Better to keep them safe with him than risk losing control of their souls to an inferior man/family.

This what I really think is going on with Steve. I agree that Steve sees all his kids as marrying beneath them but at least the sons, along with heavy involvement from Steve no doubt, have the control to ensure the wives get up to the Maxhell standards. Can't do that with sons-in-law.

[Grimalkin]

I've been poking at the Titus 2 about page on the wayback machine and don't see any mention of Sarah becoming her parents' personal cargiver for her instead of marrying (sorry for sloppy inaccurate reference; I wasn't quite awake when I read it a couple of pages back). Her bio consistently reports that she finished homeschool in 2000,has written 2/3/4 books and is the "photographer" of the family.

The Maxwells were even more beige back in 2006-2008 than they are now. I guess they got some color into the frumpers before completely abandoning them. :lol:

I read your last sentence as beige is the new black.

[anjulibai]

If the guys in the family could meet women they liked, Sarah certainly has had the opportunity to meet a guy she would like.

Didn't she do an interview with some other fundie blogger where she mentioned a few guys being interested but nothing came of it?

Sarah, when she was younger, would likely have been seen as a catch in their circles and I am sure there would have been a few headships who would have been happy to attach themselves to the Maxwells through their sons.

It's Steve's control issues and perhaps Sarah's own fears of intimacy that have prevented Sarah from marrying.

[Jana814]

I have to agree w/ an above post. I don't think Sarah will get married. Maybe Anna & Mary but I'm not sure.

[nokidsmom]

If the guys in the family could meet women they liked, Sarah certainly has had the opportunity to meet a guy she would like.

Didn't she do an interview with some other fundie blogger where she mentioned a few guys being interested but nothing came of it?

Sarah, when she was younger, would likely have been seen as a catch in their circles and I am sure there would have been a few headships who would have been happy to attach themselves to the Maxwells through their sons.

It's Steve's control issues and perhaps Sarah's own fears of intimacy that have prevented Sarah from marrying.

Re: the bold, this. Just as the Muncks were, at one point, enamored of the Maxwells enough to want to marry their daughter into the family so I think there were probably others who wanted to do the same thing. I can't help but wonder when Steve sent enough suitors packing, word got around even in their circles to other possible interested parties to not even try to approach him.

[snarkykitty]

Killing 3 birds with this post...

1.

I would think a jean jacket on the Fourth of July would be rather hot for a pregnant woman, don't you? Elissa is also wearing lipstick; granted, it's a pale pink -dare I say it?- almost nude, but it's still lipstick. Do any other of the Maxwell women wear lipstick? I know Teri doesn't wear any cosmetics, but do any of the daughters or daughters-in-law?

I was going to comment on how hot those long denim skirts must feel as well, especially since they go down to the ankles. They are the heavy denim, too. No slits or flaps to let any air circulate. That's a yeast infection waiting to happen!!

Sorry about the visual.. :disgust:

2.

Ruthann's has on one of NR Anna's ridiculous bib contraptions.

Can someone remind me what "Non Reversal Anna" means?

3. Lastly, the title of the blog post is "The Red, White and Blue." Sarah explained the significance of the colors red and while, but neglected to mention anything about the color blue:

"It’s when the color red becomes white. Isaiah 1:18 puts it well: “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.â€

[sparkles]

Can someone remind me what "Non Reversal Anna" means?

Anna Maxwell 1.0 is the first daughter born after Steve had his vasectomy reversed. Collectively, the post-reversal kids—Joseph, John, Anna, Jesse and Mary—are called the Reversals (duh). Great name for a band. Anna Maxwell 2.0 is Christopher's wife, called Anna Marie by the Maxwell clan. Because confusion and all that. Except not really. FJers came up with NR or Non-Reversal Anna for her instead.

[RebelYell]

"Non Reversal Anna" refers to Christopher's wife to distinguish her from the Real DNA[tm][/tm] Maxwell, Anna, who was one of the kids born to Steve and Teri after Steve's reverse vasectomy.

Edited for typo

Edited again to say Sparkles said it much better! :lol:

[Season of life...]

I've been poking at the Titus 2 about page on the wayback machine and don't see any mention of Sarah becoming her parents' personal cargiver for her instead of marrying (sorry for sloppy inaccurate reference; I wasn't quite awake when I read it a couple of pages back). Her bio consistently reports that she finished homeschool in 2000,has written 2/3/4 books and is the "photographer" of the family.

The Maxwells were even more beige back in 2006-2008 than they are now. I guess they got some color into the frumpers before completely abandoning them. :lol:

I wouldn't be surprised if that particular blurb was only up for a short time. My husband remembers my reaction, since I WTF'd out loud--not a typical reaction for me at the time. He read it as well, and we both were rather shocked that they would post her intention of eternal servitude (although I think Steve himself, possibly Teri, wrote the blurb). If later on the bio was changed to how she wants to marry, in God's timing, of course, then I just take that as them backtracking. We know Steve has no problem with changing things after receiving feedback. I wish I had a link, but as I don't I understand why there may be some doubt about what I say I saw on Sarah's bio. I will say, though, that it was that one or two sentence blurb that forever sent me down the fundie rabbit hole--I still remember how I felt after reading it, and I wasn't even the one with her foot caught in the Maxwell trap.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

It looks like Elissa has a beehive in the backyard (the white box-type thing). Hope she continues with her 4-Her ways! And I hope she lets her kid(s) be in 4-H.

Don't get your hopes up. Some homeschool families form their own 4-H Club to avoid worldly influences.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

If the guys in the family could meet women they liked, Sarah certainly has had the opportunity to meet a guy she would like.

Didn't she do an interview with some other fundie blogger where she mentioned a few guys being interested but nothing came of it?

Sarah, when she was younger, would likely have been seen as a catch in their circles and I am sure there would have been a few headships who would have been happy to attach themselves to the Maxwells through their sons.

It's Steve's control issues and perhaps Sarah's own fears of intimacy that have prevented Sarah from marrying.

I'm pretty sure if Daddy said "Marry him" Sarah would and then would "do her duty" to get pregnant. She'd probably think about getting to have a second burrito when she was pregnant so she could forget what was going on above and within her though......Duty is duty.

[Jana814]

Completely agree w/ the above post!! If Steve told any of the girls "marry him" they would no matter what!!

[RecoveringFundie]

In response to the boys being able to find someone so surely the girls must have had opportunities. I disagree. I think the boys have the opportunity to "summon" a bride from some of their adoring fans. The girls would never be able to do that. We all know that they don't meet their future spouse in a normal, hang out fashion, so I doubt that even the boys had much of an opportunity to meet their future spouses in a normal way (I don't remember if they've stated how the older boys met their spouses). But the girls would certainly not have an opportunity to initiate starting a courtship---or even a potential courtship---they are 100% at the mercy of their father to meet someone. And that doesn't seem likely at all.

[kpmom]

In response to the boys being able to find someone so surely the girls must have had opportunities. I disagree. I think the boys have the opportunity to "summon" a bride from some of their adoring fans. The girls would never be able to do that. We all know that they don't meet their future spouse in a normal, hang out fashion, so I doubt that even the boys had much of an opportunity to meet their future spouses in a normal way (I don't remember if they've stated how the older boys met their spouses). But the girls would certainly not have an opportunity to initiate starting a courtship---or even a potential courtship---they are 100% at the mercy of their father to meet someone. And that doesn't seem likely at all.

Absolutely agree. The females cannot make the first move under any circumstances.

Two of the brothers met their spouses during the Maxwell traveling shows. Single adult men would not likely be present during these conferences, so the sisters wouldn't even have the chance to be noticed.

I did hope that some of the families at these conferences would have a brother, uncle or male church friend that they could tell about the Maxwell sisters. Who knows? Maybe they did get some interest in that way.

[Justme]

I would suspect there are many more fundie girls than boys. Boys are taught how to earn a living so they can support a family. They are given more freedom (generally). It's much easier for them to fly the nest. Girls are given a minimal education and taught being a wife and stay at home, homeschooling Mom is their only future. It's much harder for them to escape.

Boys choose who they want to court. Girls just have to sit and wait.

[rural juror]

I wonder about Jesse's marriage prospects too now that their tours appear to be over. If I recall correctly, both Chris and Joseph met their wives through fellowshipping during conferences (and Nathan met Melanie in church back when they were less insane). John seems to have wisely started a business that lets him travel alone quite a bit. But if Jesse's future is designing websites from the safely of the Maxwell compound, I wonder where he can meet a suitable fundie maiden.

[ADoyle90815]

I would suspect there are many more fundie girls than boys. Boys are taught how to earn a living so they can support a family. They are given more freedom (generally). It's much easier for them to fly the nest. Girls are given a minimal education and taught being a wife and stay at home, homeschooling Mom is their only future. It's much harder for them to escape.

Boys choose who they want to court. Girls just have to sit and wait.

It's easier for fundie boys to get married than it is for girls, since boys can make the first move by going to the father of the girl he wants to court. Girls have to wait until they're told that there's someone who is interested in a courtship, and who has been approved by Daddy. Girls are also given just a basic education so they can stay at home and homeschool their own children, so even if a girl really wanted to escape, she doesn't have the education to really make it on the outside.