CA has mandatory vaccination/CA Bans Personal Belief Exemp

[SassyPants]

Did you miss the title of the thread? CA passed a bill REQUIRING children be fully vaxxed in order to attend school.

So you cannot HS, online school, get a private tutor or co-op school in CA without immunizations?

Please provide proof of such, thanks-

[keen23]

Did you miss the title of the thread? CA passed a bill REQUIRING children be fully vaxxed in order to attend school.

No, what California did was to get rid of the "Personal Belief" Exemption.

California now joins West Virginia and Mississippi as the only states without a personal-belief exemption for vaccines. Medical exemptions will still be available for children with serious health issues. When considering exemptions, doctors may take family medical history into account.

Parents now have to have a legitimate reason for refusing a vaccine. Beyond "my Mom group says vaccines are bad, so we aren't doing them." If you can convince your doctor to write you a medical exemption, you can still send your unvaccinated kids to school.

Personally, my kids are fully vaccinated. Oldest has had her 3 Gardisil shots. Middle will start those next year. We get flu shots every year. The kids get vaccinated on a traditional schedule. Never had any problems. There are many medical professionals in my family- nurses and doctors- and they also get their children vaccinated. My relative who's a high-risk OBGYN was the one who convinced me that Gardisil was a good thing, and she had both of her daughters get it (this relative also talked me out of getting Essure, because she didn't like the idea of having metal coils floating around inside you for the rest of your life).

[keen23]

So you cannot HS, online school, get a private tutor or co-op school in CA without immunizations?

Please provide proof of such, thanks-

No, you can, if you have a medical exemption. California has

California now joins West Virginia and Mississippi as the only states without a personal-belief exemption for vaccines. Medical exemptions will still be available for children with serious health issues. When considering exemptions, doctors may take family medical history into account.

[formergothardite]

Taken from another debate-

Vaccines or no vaccines it is about freedom to choose what you do to your body --- hell seems those that want forced vaccines are the same that scream the loudest about "choice" for abortions. Hypocrites! Last time I checked this was the USA but the greed and the government are trying to change that. Seems they're trying to repeat Nazi Germany -- how Hilter started the insanity--- healthcare. Be brave and check an honest history book. God bless the children.

Actually spanking makes more sense in this discussion. It is about parents personal choice to do something to their children.

And honestly since you recommended Ezzo's PFP without having remembered what it said or having actually followed his advice, I'm not sure I'm going to take your advice on anything, including what history books I should read.

If God really wanted to bless the children He could get rid off all those pesky diseases that He created.

[GeoBQn]

Taken from another debate-

Vaccines or no vaccines it is about freedom to choose what you do to your body --- hell seems those that want forced vaccines are the same that scream the loudest about "choice" for abortions. Hypocrites! Last time I checked this was the USA but the greed and the government are trying to change that. Seems they're trying to repeat Nazi Germany -- how Hilter started the insanity--- healthcare. Be brave and check an honest history book. God bless the children.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodwinsLaw

[EmmieJ]

Forced medical procedures are never a good thing. What kind of society are we in where one can terminate a fetus but can't choose whether or not to vaccinate without repercussions?

My son's school and a number of the students there have had to deal with the repercussions of the few parents who refused to vaccinate their kids, but their kids were allowed to attend public school anyway, with a break out of whooping cough being the most recent.

Unless parents will keep themselves and their children in a bubble, where they won't come into contact with others who might be seriously impacted by their un-vaccinated status - - then I think requiring every kid get standard vaccinations is fine.

[Snarkylark]

So you cannot HS, online school, get a private tutor or co-op school in CA without immunizations?

Please provide proof of such, thanks-

You know as well as I do that some of those options aren't going to be affordable, accessible, or realistic for everyone who opts out, correct? ESP for low income or families who need two incomes. And I believe co-op was excluded, iirc.

[Maggie Mae]

It's not like this is the first time the government of any country has required a vaccine prior to school. Didn't kids in the 50s line up for their vaccine? I've seen pictures of both kids in the US and Russia lined up, holding cards, shirt sleeves rolled up.

If you have a personal belief in not vaccinating, don't live in California and don't send your kid to a public school. Or get a medical exemption if you can. Those are your options. It's such a petty thing to complain about "Oh no, my government is making my child participate in preventative medicine!"

[OkToBeTakei]

An Ezzo loving Anti-vaxxer who is degreed medical professional (trademark)

Back away slowly now ...get ready to go out for dinner....comeback to see the developments/carnage :lol: That will be me.

[Snarkylark]

Actually spanking makes more sense in this discussion. It is about parents personal choice to do something to their children.

And honestly since you recommended Ezzo's PFP without having remembered what it said or having actually followed his advice, I'm not sure I'm going to take your advice on anything, including what history books I should read.

If God really wanted to bless the children He could get rid off all those pesky diseases that He created.

Spanking your child is still legal. So, parents have a CHOICE on how to discipline their child. No one is telling parents that they have to spank their child or that they can't, as long as there is no abuse.

I defended some of the tips I learned in PFP. I don't remember recommending it, as such. I'm not going to re-hash that again. If you want to know what I said then go back and read that thread. So because you don't agree with something I say or do then that means everything I say must be wrong?

[Snarkylark]

An Ezzo loving Anti-vaxxer who is degreed medical professional (trademark)

Back away slowly now ...get ready to go out for dinner....comeback to see the developments/carnage :lol: That will be me.

Where did I say I was Ezzo loving or an anti-vaxxer?

Medical procedures should not be forced or tied to rights. Period.

[Snarkylark]

Seatbelts can break your bones in a car accident. A seatbelt broke my right collarbone when I was a teenager. It was very painful, affected my schoolwork negatively, and took months to heal. It still aches sometimes. You know what I still do? PUT ON MY FUCKING SEATBELT. Because it's better to break your collarbone than your HEAD.

Wearing a seatbelt is not a medical procedure.

[formergothardite]

Where did I say I was Ezzo loving or an anti-vaxxer?

Medical procedures should not be forced or tied to rights. Period.

You were still saying Ezzo and BW gave good advice at the end of the thread.

Typically I agree that medical procedures should not be forced, but we are talking about children here. They don't usually get to choose and stuff gets forced on them all the time. There are some parents who would let their children die instead of providing a medical procedure and it seems like you are saying that should be allowed.

[Snarkylark]

You were still saying Ezzo and BW gave good advice at the end of the thread.

Typically I agree that medical procedures should not be forced, but we are talking about children here. They don't typically get to choose. There are some parents who would let their children die instead of providing a medical procedure and it seems like you are saying that should be allowed.

Ok, let's be honest here. How many of the disease we vaccinate for are always fatal or always cause disabilities? Are there some vaccines which the benefit of the vaccine outweighs the risk of the effects from contracting the disease? Certainly, and I think polio is one of those. BUT, that doesn't mean that the government should force everyone to get the vaccine. Perhaps watchful waiting and vaccinating if there is an OUTBREAK would be an option for some people? Same with pertussis. We know there have been outbreaks so efforts have been increased to make sure kids are covered. But for some of these vaccines to be part of a MANDATORY schedule is what I have a problem with. I don't feel it's necessary for newborns of healthy mothers to get vaccinated against Hep B. I don't think it's necessary for everyone to be given a flu shot every.single.year. And I don't think the gardasil vaccine should be mandatory, either. But if the government DECIDES they are, we won't have a choice. Do you see the problem here? And don't think it ends there. It won't.

[EmmieJ]

I'm really glad about this! I understand the personal rights argument, but I have two points:

...

For brevity, I snipped your quote but wanted to thank you for saying what I am thinking but could not express nearly so eloquently and completely.

[VelociRapture]

Taken from another debate-

Vaccines or no vaccines it is about freedom to choose what you do to your body --- hell seems those that want forced vaccines are the same that scream the loudest about "choice" for abortions. Hypocrites! Last time I checked this was the USA but the greed and the government are trying to change that. Seems they're trying to repeat Nazi Germany -- how Hilter started the insanity--- healthcare. Be brave and check an honest history book. God bless the children.

Oh for fuck's sake!

Abortion is a choice we defend because it only affects a small number of people - mainly, the fetus, the parents, and the Doctor. That's it! Those are the only people impacted directly! Argue all you want about how horrible it is - those are the only people who are directly impacted by the choice.

When a parent decides not to vaccinate - for whatever reason - their choice affects far more people than just their family. If you have a medical reason for opting out, that's fine - I would never argue that a child with a predisposition to having a bad reaction to a vaccine take that risk. . . . but if you're only opposition is because your parent group says it causes autism or because Jesus apparently told you so, that isn't ok. Because you're putting other children and people at risk. Herd immunity doesn't work if people who are medically able to get vaccinated don't do so.

So, to really make it simple for you:

Abortion - when a woman or couple decides this is the best option it does not have the ability to physically sicken or impact millions of people.

Vaccines - when a parent/parents decide not to vaccinate, it has the potential to spark an outbreak that could lead to illness or death for millions of people.

[Snarkylark]

Oh, and I am not saying that parents should be able to let their child die. But I don't think we're talking about that here. How many that got measles in the latest outbreak died or have lasting, permanent effects from the measles? We aren't talking about sudden death here in a developed country with access to excellent health care. The parents who deny their diabetic child insulin, yes. That's wrong and acutely fatal, and IMO not the same type of issue.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Oh for fuck's sake!

Abortion is a choice we defend because it only affects a small number of people - mainly, the fetus, the parents, and the Doctor. That's it! Those are the only people impacted directly! Argue all you want about how horrible it is - those are the only people who are directly impacted by the choice.

When a parent decides not to vaccinate - for whatever reason - their choice affects far more people than just their family. If you have a medical reason for opting out, that's fine - I would never argue that a child with a predisposition to having a bad reaction to a vaccine take that risk. . . . but if you're only opposition is because your parent group says it causes autism or because Jesus apparently told you so, that isn't ok. Because you're putting other children and people at risk. Herd immunity doesn't work if people who are medically able to get vaccinated don't do so.

So, to really make it simple for you:

Abortion - when a woman or couple decides this is the best option it does not have the ability to physically sicken or impact millions of people.

Vaccines - when a parent/parents decide not to vaccinate, it has the potential to spark an outbreak that could lead to illness or death for millions of people.

THIS.

Also, first of all, the study that said vaccines cause autism has been proved wrong time and time again, was done unethically and badly by a hack that lost his license, and has been discredited over and over again.

Furthermore, if the idea of having a child with autism is so awful to you that you would rather risk the life and health of your child and everyone around them, you're a disgusting ablist piece of shit.

[Snarkylark]

Oh for fuck's sake!

Abortion is a choice we defend because it only affects a small number of people - mainly, the fetus, the parents, and the Doctor. That's it! Those are the only people impacted directly! Argue all you want about how horrible it is - those are the only people who are directly impacted by the choice.

When a parent decides not to vaccinate - for whatever reason - their choice affects far more people than just their family. If you have a medical reason for opting out, that's fine - I would never argue that a child with a predisposition to having a bad reaction to a vaccine take that risk. . . . but if you're only opposition is because your parent group says it causes autism or because Jesus apparently told you so, that isn't ok. Because you're putting other children and people at risk. Herd immunity doesn't work if people who are medically able to get vaccinated don't do so.

So, to really make it simple for you:

Abortion - when a woman or couple decides this is the best option it does not have the ability to physically sicken or impact millions of people.

Vaccines - when a parent/parents decide not to vaccinate, it has the potential to spark an outbreak that could lead to illness or death for millions of people.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/

730,000 abortions performed in 2011, one year! That sounds like the death of millions to me....smh

[Snarkylark]

THIS.

Also, first of all, the study that said vaccines cause autism has been proved wrong time and time again, was done unethically and badly by a hack that lost his license, and has been discredited over and over again.

Furthermore, if the idea of having a child with autism is so awful to you that you would rather risk the life and health of your child and everyone around them, you're a disgusting ablist piece of shit.

Please show me where I said anything about autism or vaccines causing it. Thank you.

[formergothardite]

Hitler and abortion. :lol:

Snarkylark. are you okay with denying women the right to choose medical procedures they think are best for them and their family?

[SassyPants]

No, you can, if you have a medical exemption. California has

I know :) I was trying to get the member who made the comment to step back, re-read and think about what she posted.

The biggest complaint I see (I'm in CA) is the school piece. It seems that many of the anti-vaccine parents want the state to pay for schooling alternatives; trouble shoot the consequences.

[FundieFarmer]

Oh for fuck's sake!

Abortion is a choice we defend because it only affects a small number of people - mainly, the fetus, the parents, and the Doctor. That's it! Those are the only people impacted directly! Argue all you want about how horrible it is - those are the only people who are directly impacted by the choice.

When a parent decides not to vaccinate - for whatever reason - their choice affects far more people than just their family. If you have a medical reason for opting out, that's fine - I would never argue that a child with a predisposition to having a bad reaction to a vaccine take that risk. . . . but if you're only opposition is because your parent group says it causes autism or because Jesus apparently told you so, that isn't ok. Because you're putting other children and people at risk. Herd immunity doesn't work if people who are medically able to get vaccinated don't do so.

So, to really make it simple for you:

Abortion - when a woman or couple decides this is the best option it does not have the ability to physically sicken or impact millions of people.

Vaccines - when a parent/parents decide not to vaccinate, it has the potential to spark an outbreak that could lead to illness or death for millions of people.

:clap:

Thanks for saying that, VelociRapture. I was trying to figure out how to say it without it being nuts.

Bottom line, I don't give a flying fig what you do with your pregnancy-or-not situation. It doesn't affect me. I do care, however, if you come near me unvaccinated, because then you're infringing on my "right" to be healthy. If you want to do your thing and enact your "right" not to vaccinate, that's just fine. But if that's the case, you should be the one staying at home. Hinging the lives of others on the crazy and unsubstantiated fear you might have a negative reaction to a vaccine is just nutty to me.

OMG that abortion comment. I'm starting to second the leg-bumper theory. Anna Duggar is among us.

[EmmieJ]

Actually spanking makes more sense in this discussion. It is about parents personal choice to do something to their children.

And honestly since you recommended Ezzo's PFP without having remembered what it said or having actually followed his advice, I'm not sure I'm going to take your advice on anything, including what history books I should read.

If God really wanted to bless the children He could get rid off all those pesky diseases that He created.

If there is a God, maybe she is trying to do so, through scientists who have developed the vaccines we have today. Hmmmmmm.

[Georgiana]

When I had an abortion, there was 1 person medically impacted: me. No one else got sick. No one else was hurt.

Medically speaking, I had some tissue removed from my body removed that was making me sick. Just like in my tonsillectomy.

My friend's brother died of meningitis. I have seen people twisted and permanently disabled from polio. An infant died from exposure to measles from an unvaccinated child in a waiting room in Germany. Those people didn't have a say in the choice whether to vaccinate someone else or not, but that person's choice caused irreparable harm to them.

It's like drunk driving. I have the right to get drunk because that impacts only me. My liver, my choice. However, I do NOT have the right to get drunk and then engage in behavior that endangers others.

Living "naturally", all people have all freedoms. Without society, you could just murder someone and take their stuff without consequences. Except, of course, you would have to live in fear of people doing the same to you. People agree to sacrifice some of those freedoms for the benefits and security of a society, and the society itself determines which freedoms to restrict. Not vaccinating endangers others. You do not have the right to endanger others, and society can choose to protect itself from that behavior.

If you want that freedom, you can have it. You CAN go live off the grid or form your own colony. No one is stopping you. But if you want the benefits of a society you have to play by society's rules.