Confederate Flag

[ariel9]

I am late on this topic. As a Michigander in the lower more populated areas you do not see the confederate flags as much. I think you see it more when people perceive they are around others who will not punch them in the face. I mean who wants the apparel of a losing side, oh yeah Lions fans. Deeper than just a losing side it has an awful history. The Old South was not the same for everyone. People long for that time but fail to realize and more likely do not even care that the good life that they experience came at the expense of others :pull-hair:. Besides the longing for the old south, the confederate flag makes people feel unwelcome. I know that stereotypes are not the greatest but sometimes generalizations are quicker than getting to know someone. When normal sane people see the flag they are not thinking "Wow I bet they are proud of the south" they are thinking "Oh shit I am in the wrong place, how do I get out of here without becoming a CNN story" (I mean at least thats my inner monologue). As for those who think that the flag once stood for something honorable, it can mean whatever they would have liked it to mean but when white supremacists decided that it is their logo that kills whatever the original reason was. I do not care if it was " free cookies" when a symbol get linked to something horrific and historic, that is the new meaning.

[zebra #13]

I recall the shock I felt learning that an early draft of the Declaration of Independence read: Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Property. . . . And yet knew that it explained an awful lot that wasn't otherwise intelligible. . . .

In the state where I now reside, only 26% of the population owned slaves. 100% fought for that ownership. So, as is usual, the desire for ownership/profit, is named something else, or even the peckerwoods won't do it. The Patriot Game *always* involves some other poor wretch dying for the rich's right to be rich. Or get richer. So it got called "States' Rights." And the South lives out that fiction, even now. And the po' peckerwoods still support those that would eat them for dinner, came the need, without flinching.

And to set the record straight, my part of that state wasn't even 26%; and in 1861 voted to stop being part of that state, and fought on the side of the Union (for the most part). That were not any of the reasons why I came here, but it's surely one reason why I lurve it here. Almost Heaven, indeed.

edited for apostrophe

[GeoBQn]

Chicks on the Right shared this on Facebook, causing my African-American friends to face-palm.

[zebra #13]

Chicks on the Right shared this on Facebook, causing my African-American friends to face-palm.

Ah, jeepers, that was in my feed, too. But more of a :angry-banghead: than a face-palm. . . .

[roddma]

The truth is no one wins a war. 'What is war What is it good for? Absolutely nothing'."

[ophelia]

lol, I did not know that. Benjamin was a Jew so they probably figure he is in hell anyway.

I find it funny that fundies love Dietrich Bonhoeffer who was also (ALLEGEDLY) gay.

Was he? Never heard of that before...

[Johanna25]

My cousin re-posted that pyramid thing on FB. I thought of telling her that current thought is that the pyramids were not built by slave labor, but were public works projects, but I decided why bother. Can't convert the ignorant.

Most of the poor whites in the south were not supporters of the Confederacy (probably including many of these morons' ancestors); it was an oligarchy run by the rich planters. They had all the governors in their pockets, but several legislatures actually voted against secession, and had to be sent home and special (highly rigged) sessions called to vote for secession. The Confederacy fell due to internal dissent and desertion as much as military defeat. Many local areas (the mountaineers and coastal fishermen and small farmers) were in open rebellion. The Sons of Confederate veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy have done an outstanding propaganda job of selling their "Lost Cause" myth of an honorable, united, states-rights loving South. They've even re-written the textbooks in the North.

Even if you honor the flag as a symbol of your heritage, common decency should prompt you to consider the feelings it brings up in others. For African-Americans those associations are vile, so it needs to be retired to the museum.

[PennySycamore]

I have heard that the very northwesternmost counties in South Carolina (Oconee and Pickens) tried to secede from the state when SC seceded from the Union. I'd like to think that that is true being a Oconee County gal myself.

[SportsgalAnnie]

I have heard that the very northwesternmost counties in South Carolina (Oconee and Pickens) tried to secede from the state when SC seceded from the Union. I'd like to think that that is true being a Oconee County gal myself.

thats what happened with where i'm from

[Mama Mia]

Anybody in a solidly blue state who promotes the confederate flag with the excuse of " States Rights! " is a bald faced liar. They don't want their states to have more rights! They hate and despise the decisions their state governments make - generally pro- safety net, anti- discrimination, pro- equality. So when some idiot in California or Connecticut or Oregon proudly blasts some confederate flag = states rights meme on social media - call them out on it.

Personally, I'm all for more state rights - for MY state, I like having paid family leave and wide ranging anti- discrimination laws and expanded health coverage and higher environmental standards ( there are some policies I'd change of course ) . But the things I favor are all the things that the confederate flag wavers hate about the state. And, unfortunately, since more state rights in general mean other states would get screwed....state rights aren't a hill I'm willing to die on. ( unless we could actually form on our own Country, peacefully 8-) )

[RosyDaisy]

Here's some info about Winston Co. Alabama. It wanted to be left alone by both sides:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Winston]/URL]

[MatthewDuggar]

I saw something on the news about a video(s) going viral of people pulling up to houses, running out of their cars ripping down a confederate flag on display and then running back to the car and taking off. Apparently this is some sort of "challenge" to encourage others to do the same thing. I live in probably the whitest area of Florida and the video they showed as an example was of a black teen male doing this. (below) I'm so against the flag but I found this rather aggressive. Has anyone else heard of this?

https://youtu.be/f_a9yXEracU

[HarleyQuinn]

Why did I look at that Chicks on the Right facebook page? I hate myself now. :angry-banghead:

[FloraKitty35]

I saw something on the news about a video(s) going viral of people pulling up to houses, running out of their cars ripping down a confederate flag on display and then running back to the car and taking off. Apparently this is some sort of "challenge" to encourage others to do the same thing. I live in probably the whitest area of Florida and the video they showed as an example was of a black teen male doing this. (below) I'm so against the flag but I found this rather aggressive. Has anyone else heard of this?

https://youtu.be/f_a9yXEracU

I've heard of it. It sounds like a recipe for getting shot.

[Swamptribe]

Haven't read through this whole thing, but just want to point out, the flag everyone is getting so upset about is NOT the Confederate flag. It is Robert E. Lee's battleflag. (husband is a civil war buff). The confederate flag looks completely different. You'd think Southerners would bother to learn these things.

Just sayin.

[RosyDaisy]

I've heard of it. It sounds like a recipe for getting shot.

Yeah, do not try this. Where I live, I can guarantee that somebody will get shot.

[RosyDaisy]

Haven't read through this whole thing, but just want to point out, the flag everyone is getting so upset about is NOT the Confederate flag. It is Robert E. Lee's battleflag. (husband is a civil war buff). The confederate flag looks completely different. You'd think Southerners would bother to learn these things.

Just sayin.

True, but it makes no difference to me. It's still offensive.

[naatashamaru]

Many things:

The thing about only 5% of southern owners owning slaves in the south is actually wrong its much higher...probably closer to 50%...most people say the 5% because that's how many owned over 100 slaves...they haven't accounted for those that owned less as much as just one. They also have accounted for the fact that slaves dependent on their skill were loaned out to other owners...so yeah. Wayyy more people owning slaves than what they trying to say did.

I live in Stone Mountain, GA the birthplace of the resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan. When we came to America in the 1990s you couldn't go to the park at night if you were black because of all the damn Klan meetings. (im black btw). People want to get the flag taken down from the Park because the Park is kinda owned by a private company but also by the state who loaned it out to the company. The NAACP Atlanta chapter wants the confederate generals and their horses that were dynamited into the rock removed...that's a problem cuz 1) how and 2) no. That park gives over 1,000 jobs to young people in the area (including my fam and all my friends) and if you take away a major attraction...it will hurt the economy.

Living in Georgia i see the flag a lot ive also been in a debate in Southern Politics class over the fact that flag needs to go and is a disgrace to the south. I LOVE being southern and wouldn't live anywhere else, but frankly fuck that flag. Its disgusting and shouldn't be used ever. The Civil War was about state's rights to own slaves...

Im deeply annoyed by the flag and people defending it....ok end rant

[DowntownAbbey]

Aah, I had a long post about this and I lost it, so here's the tl;dr version:

The flag shouldn't be flown by the government because it's not an official flag that represents the US like the American flag, state flags, flags of the armed forces, etc. But the Confederate flag is in a special "what the fuck is wrong with you" don't fly category because rebellion, slavery, and racial division are not things a government should be promoting because...duh!

Confederate memorials/monuments should stay because they represent the fractures that remained in American society despite the end of the war. The Reconstruction period is already often overlooked by Americans, removing such reminders (even if they're not viewed by everyone as such now) would only serve to promote the "we had a civil war, but then slavery was illegal, and all Americans lived happily ever after" narrative.

[PennySycamore]

I do think they they should rename the street in from of Mother Emanuel AME Church to honor the Nine who were slain by Dylann Roof. IIRC, the street is currently named after John C Calhoun.

[bingbangboom]

Grew up fundie to fundie lite in the south. We studied the "war of northern aggression". I knew about slaves, that they exsisted, but my homeschooling books never linked the two. I was a junior in high school before realizing what the civil war was actually over.

That was the same history class where I was taught that many slave owners were kind and benevolent and helped heathen African people find civility and Jesus1!11!!!!

Ugh, thank God for my love of reading and my secular college education!

[roddma]

Whats a disgrace to all the US is these South hating individuals forget how the Indians were ran off their land and slavery just didnt start in 1860 America. Heck, at least 8 US presidents had slaves. And when the slaves were freed, they still werent' equal to whites.

True this flag doesnt need to be on gov buildings, but I can think of plenty of things that offend me more than a 150ish yr old flag.

Anyone can rewrite history to say what they want it to. For years, I believed what was taught in the books about the CIvil War. Unlike many people on the subject, I'm willing to hear other opinions. The South haters can just keep believing what they want. I can equally stereotype other regions.

[PennySycamore]

I'm not a Southern hater by any means although the regressive politics of my home state frequently drive me crazy. (James Pettigru said back in 1860 that SC was too small for a Republic and too large for an insane asylum. It's still true.) There is much to be proud of in Southern culture: fried chicken, biscuits, country ham, barbecue, Lane cakes, coconut cake, green beans cooked slowly with a bit of fatback, cheese grits and its variation shrimp and grits, good fresh SC peaches, Eudora Welty, William Faulkner, Flannery O'Connor, Mark Twain (born in Missouri of Tennessee parents), Carson McCullers, Zora Neale Hurston, Truman Capote, Tennessee Williams, Harper Lee, Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash, Elvis, the Allman Brothers, Janis Joplin, the Dixie Chicks, Trisha Yearwood, Jasper Johns, Jimmy Carter, Mary McCleod Bethune, Dr Martin Luther King. I could go on and on.

What the South cannot be proud of EVER is their history of enslaving African-Americans and bigotry towards people of color. That old Moonlight and Magnolias myth is just that -a myth. The gloriousness of the old South was ugly underneath.

[bingbangboom]

PennySycamore, you rascal! Thanks for defrauding me via delicious foods!

Now I'm off to eat all the biscuits and fried fatback!

[roddma]

Clinton is from Arkansas. As I said, blacks or other people of color weren't equal to whites no matter where you went in the country. Racism isn't absent in other parts of the country. Other regions criticize the South for racism while turning a blind eye to their own racism. .It is also easy to forget racism isnt just white against black.