Old Duggar Newspaper Articles

[lostfemme]

Bach, yeah the composer, had 20 kids by two marriages. 10 died in infancy or early childhood. 1 boy was mentally disabled.

Now, here's the interesting thing. Of the 10 surviving children, only one of his adult daughters and one son married and had children. The daughter had only one child who died young. The son had five children but only two survived. So from 20 children, Bach only achieved 2 grandchildren who reached adulthood.

I think it's very telling that Bach's children, maybe having seen the suffering of their mothers' loss of many infants and living among so many siblings, almost all decided to forgo children themselves. Most didn't even marry. Even the sons who became famous in their own right, and made good money, decided not to have children.

[An interesting aside - the greatest musical genius in the Bach home was supposedly his eldest daughter, Catharina, who helped her father compose and arrange music until he died. All of Bach's children played multiple instruments, the girls learned transcription and composition from their mothers. The girls were just as capable as the boys in contributing to the family income by playing and singing in their father's church, and weren't restricted to the "womanly arts" or constant pregnancies. One of the younger daughters knew Beethoven and might have taught him composition.

Sorry for the long note, but I become so enraged at the Duggars' tainted view of the past, that having 20 children was a blessing and that women didn't choose to remain single and pursue their own interests, even when they technically couldn't enter official professions.]

[feministxtian]

On my father's side, his mother was one of 14 children (pre WW1 Germany). His father was one of 12. They had TWO children (there was a rumor or 2 that my grandmother had abortions, but who knows). My Great Uncle (my grandmother's brother) and his wife had ONE child. She had 2 children. Those children had 2 children each. My dad's sister had 2 children. My generation were all born in the late 50's and 60's.

On my mother's side, I don't know that much about my grandparents, but they did have several siblings. My mother was the youngest of 4 children, 3 of whom survived into adulthood. Of the three, the only one to have a child was my mother. I was IT. I have three children. Of my three, two have children.

These were all German Catholic and Cuban Catholic families. They HAD to be doing something to prevent pregnancy...for example, my father was born in 1928 and his sister was born in 1934.

[sorchah]

On my father's side, his mother was one of 14 children (pre WW1 Germany). His father was one of 12. They had TWO children (there was a rumor or 2 that my grandmother had abortions, but who knows). My Great Uncle (my grandmother's brother) and his wife had ONE child. She had 2 children. Those children had 2 children each. My dad's sister had 2 children. My generation were all born in the late 50's and 60's.

On my mother's side, I don't know that much about my grandparents, but they did have several siblings. My mother was the youngest of 4 children, 3 of whom survived into adulthood. Of the three, the only one to have a child was my mother. I was IT. I have three children. Of my three, two have children.

These were all German Catholic and Cuban Catholic families. They HAD to be doing something to prevent pregnancy...for example, my father was born in 1928 and his sister was born in 1934.

Diaphragms.

[sorchah]

This is the earliest article I was able to find. I forgot where I heard JB talk about this before. Sounds bad.

Pair Wanted in Arkansas Robbery Captured

Tulsa World (OK) (Published as Tulsa World) - June 21, 1989Browse Issues

Author/Byline: APEdition: FINAL EDITIONSection: newsPage: a6

SPRINGDALE, Ark. (AP) - A man sought in the robbery of a Springdale auto dealership was apprehended by authorities in Delaware County, Okla., Tuesday following an intensive manhunt.

The man and a woman companion waived extradition to Arkansas and were jailed in Springdale, said Delaware County sheriff's Deputy Mike Wilkerson.

Wilkerson said Oklahoma authorities could not release the pair's names.

The woman was arrested following a Monday night car crash on U.S. 412 and the man, who escaped on foot, was arrested about 1 p.m. after an Oklahoma Highway Patrolman saw him trying to slip under the highway through a culvert, Wilkerson said.

Authorities launched the search after a man allegedly held up Consumer Auto Sales on U.S. 71 in Springdale about 10:30 p.m. Monday. Springdale police said the robber made off with some cash and a 1962 Chevrolet Nova.

Authorities said Arkansas State Police spotted the Nova heading west on U.S. 412 near Siloam Springs. Troopers chased the car about seven miles into Oklahoma before the car crashed and the woman was captured. A trooper's car also was damaged.

Police said a vehicle the couple left at the car lot was traced to an armed robbery in Barstow, Calif. Authorities say the two will be questioned about armed robberies in Washington and Iowa.

Dealership owner Jim Bob Duggar said he took the couple to his house next to the car lot to use the phone. He said the man picked up the phone, put it down, pulled a pistol and said, "I guess we'll take the car."

He said he gave them the car keys.

Duggar said the couple tied him with strips of sheets in the garage and did not awaken his wife and son. He said they gagged him and told him they would call his wife in an hour to let him free. He managed to free himself in a few minutes and called authorities.

He said authorities found shells to a .357-caliber pistol in a 1986 Oldsmobile that the couple left on his lot. He also said they found a rifle and a shotgun in the trunk.

[MatthewDuggar]

They wrote about the robbery in their first book. It had a lot more detail, but I honestly cannot remember more than what is written here.

[halcionne]

It's hilarious to me (and lucky for the authorities) that the car was a 62 Nova. Those were fairly uncommon and distinctive-looking cars by the late 80s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet ... .931965.29

[SassyPants]

June 1989- Already PG with the twins. Josh would have been 15 mos old.

When did the miscarriage of Caleb occur?

If JB is to be believed, he was robbed at gun point and tied up in his own garage...so, a miscarriage d/t the use of BC (purportedly) causes you to take stalk and join a cult, but getting robbed at gun point, tied up and gagged has ?????????? kind of impact?????

Sounds like if they were using the pill, they may have not been using it correctly.

Josh 3/88

CALEB miscarriage

Twins 1/90

[halcionne]

June 1989- Already PG with the twins. Josh would have been 15 mos old.

When did the miscarriage of Caleb occur?

If JB is to be believed, he was robbed at gun point and tied up in his own garage...so, a miscarriage d/t the use of BC (purportedly) causes you to take stalk and join a cult, but getting robbed at gun point, tied up and gagged has ?????????? kind of impact?????

Sounds like if they were using the pill, they may have not been using it correctly.

Josh 3/88

CALEB miscarriage

Twins 1/90

My notes say J'Caleb miscarriage was in February 89, but I don't have a source. EDD September, but again no source.

[mebeforee]

I'm sure that the robbery did not help their mistrust toward strangers. I'm amazed that JB allowed a strange couple into his own house, or that he didn't have a phone at the dealership itself! He went next door to his house anytime he had to make a business call?

Honestly, I feel like being held up with a gun at all would be absolutely terrifying, but to also be tied up in your garage, especially with your wife and child asleep in the next room, would be probably one of the most traumatic experiences a person might have in their whole life. But since it turned out okay, I guess God just blessed them by not having something worse happen... and Satan used those robbers to teach them a lesson about not letting anyone except members of your secret club into your house.

[DaisyD]

"Duggar found her strategy in the scriptural proverb, "A soft answer turns away wrath." She's lived by it ever since. "When I whisper, the kids know they're really in trouble."

This is utterly terrifying. Picture her chin to her chest, glaring out of the top of her full on crazy eyes, whispering. .. :o

[Bethella]

I'm sure that the robbery did not help their mistrust toward strangers. I'm amazed that JB allowed a strange couple into his own house, or that he didn't have a phone at the dealership itself! He went next door to his house anytime he had to make a business call?

Honestly, I feel like being held up with a gun at all would be absolutely terrifying, but to also be tied up in your garage, especially with your wife and child asleep in the next room, would be probably one of the most traumatic experiences a person might have in their whole life. But since it turned out okay, I guess God just blessed them by not having something worse happen... and Satan used those robbers to teach them a lesson about not letting anyone except members of your secret club into your house.

I may be crazy but I thought they were running the dealership out of their front room, no separate building.

[FundieFarmer]

"Duggar found her strategy in the scriptural proverb, "A soft answer turns away wrath." She's lived by it ever since. "When I whisper, the kids know they're really in trouble."

This is utterly terrifying. Picture her chin to her chest, glaring out of the top of her full on crazy eyes, whispering. .. :o

Is there really that much of a difference if the intent is the same? Maybe not as loud, but...

[DaisyD]

I freely admit that I am a yeller. I found that if I didn't yell I was more likely to spank. So I yell. The whispering is like something out of a horror movie. I suppose if it works, then whatever, but it creeps me out.

[weirdemmaline]

My mom tried the whispering thing.

I discovered in a damn hurry that it was super damn easy to just walk away when she was whispering. She went right back to yelling.

[DeFrauder]

Bach, yeah the composer, had 20 kids by two marriages. 10 died in infancy or early childhood. 1 boy was mentally disabled. ......

]

Yes, that was just the norm. No vaccines. No anti-biotics. All kinds of parasites to catch. And no birth control. People were lucky to make it to adulthood and it must have been horrible to see all one's children die.

About Bach's children, though. Did they specifically state they were not having children on purpose? The only reliable way to do that back then was to be celibate. I wonder if it was an issue of fertility.

[Nic]

The Duggar answer for JB's anger issue isn't much better. Meechelle stated in article that she had the kids put their hands on JBs arm when he got heated as a way to calm him down.

Talk about raising little co-dependents.

[DeFrauder]

Wait. There was a song the children sang and the refrain was, "please vote for our Daddy"? And this was JimBobs campaign strategy? Oh god, it hurts. But, but, but...someone has to find footage.

Please vote for my Daddy! He is going to fight the eastern liberals! :lol:

[DeFrauder]

The fact that ALMOST ALL of the board forums have QUIVERFULL as topic titles, shows that *most* of the users of this board have a grasp that the Duggars and their ilk are having high numbers kids based on their beliefs.

So to say that the number of kids isn't the problem, but their ideology is, misses the whole point.

The Duggars have all the kids BECAUSE of their ideology.

There are more people than the Duggars who have large broods, and a minority of them have anything to do with Quiverfull. What I am saying is that big families were the norm right up into the 60s and 70s. They are still the norm in many parts of the world. Even in the United states there are many large families with a dozen kids. We all know WHY the Duggars choose to have a huge number of kids. I am just pointing out that we should be careful to criticize the ideology as opposed to the number of children. There is nothing wrong with babies being born. It is not that nice to say that the kids younger than Jinger should not exist.

[DeFrauder]

The thing about your three examples is that each of those kids of big families went on to become super famous and super wealthy. Mark states that he does not blame his upbringing for joining a gang. And really, his other siblings did not join gangs. Madonna's mother died so that might be why she feels as though she got less attn and is a special case. On the other hand, she is also well known to be a narcissist and they crave more attn no matter how much they get. MJ was weird but his father is known for being crazy and abusive. All three of these people chose to have larger than average families. The one thing each of these three have in common is that they were born in an era when b/c was not yet widely available.

Back "in the day" before b/c was available and socially acceptable, being from a big family was just a fact of life.

In some places, such as the U.K., the cost of living is so high that having large families (in the middle classes) is a status symbol.

[DeFrauder]

On my father's side, his mother was one of 14 children (pre WW1 Germany). His father was one of 12. They had TWO children (there was a rumor or 2 that my grandmother had abortions, but who knows). My Great Uncle (my grandmother's brother) and his wife had ONE child. She had 2 children. Those children had 2 children each. My dad's sister had 2 children. My generation were all born in the late 50's and 60's.

On my mother's side, I don't know that much about my grandparents, but they did have several siblings. My mother was the youngest of 4 children, 3 of whom survived into adulthood. Of the three, the only one to have a child was my mother. I was IT. I have three children. Of my three, two have children.

These were all German Catholic and Cuban Catholic families. They HAD to be doing something to prevent pregnancy...for example, my father was born in 1928 and his sister was born in 1934.

Abortion has been a thing since antiquity. It was really dangerous, but people managed to do it. There was also diaphragms available during that time period. They could use those super thick condoms made of rubber (apparently people didnt like those :-P ). And there was always the withdrawal method. Douching with lysol was popular. None of this stuff was that effective until the pill came out in the 1960s. But using these methods could help people avoid a large family---unless they were one of those women who can get pregnant too easily and there are a lot of those.

[Avalondaughter]

This might be an unpopular opinion :nenner:

I don't find the giant brood of children to be their main problem. I am not even sure that it is a problem except for the ideological reasons that they give for having all these kids.

Reliable contraceptives only became available in the 1960s. Condoms were around for quite a while, but they were expensive and hard to get. It used to be the norm for people to have 8-12-16 children. Especially if there were twins involved. It was just a fact of life that women would have a large brood and possibly die from it. It was not that long ago that child birth came with a 30% risk of death. It still does in many parts of the world.

It was also the norm for half the kids to die as infants. Queen Anne, for example had 18 children that were either stillborn, or died in infancy. My own Grandma had 6 children and 3 lived to adulthood. My Great Grandmother had 12 children. Mormons continue to have huge families--as do some Catholics.

Michelle Duggard is normal in the amount of children that she has turned out--she just happens to be extra fertile than avg and has the benefit of vaccines and other healthcare advances that serve to keep her entire brood alive. If this was 1915 instead of 2015, she might have been down to 10-12 kids by now.

So my point is: There is nothing wrong with having so many kids (unless you literally are unable to feed them, but there seems to be enough tater tot casserole to go around). There is also nothing special about having 19 kids because a lot of women can manage giving birth to that many. It was the norm to have babies every 1 to 2 years for millennia. It is just no longer the NORM to not use contraceptives and avoid pregnancies. We forget really easy.

So yeah, I cant blame them for having so many children. Its what happens when you don't use contraceptives. Its just their ideology that is the problem.

:stir-pot: :popcorn2: :)

I don't know about parents from earlier eras being ignorant about birth control. Just because there was no pill doesn't mean mothers didn't want to avoid having more babies. Women used any number of methods (some more successful than others) to avoid having babies. They stuck sponges dipped in lard up their hoo-has. They douched with Lysol. They took abortifacient herbs (I think it was right here on FJ where I heard stories of great-grandmothers taking some kind of tea mean to "induce menstruation"). They had their men pull out. Throughout history women have not always simply accepted that they would have to accept every pregnancy that came along.

[MatthewDuggar]

I don't know about parents from earlier eras being ignorant about birth control. Just because there was no pill doesn't mean mothers didn't want to avoid having more babies. Women used any number of methods (some more successful than others) to avoid having babies. They stuck sponges dipped in lard up their hoo-has. They douched with Lysol. They took abortifacient herbs (I think it was right here on FJ where I heard stories of great-grandmothers taking some kind of tea mean to "induce menstruation"). They had their men pull out. Throughout history women have not always simply accepted that they would have to accept every pregnancy that came along.

I read a pioneer book that spoke about an underground newsletter that many women received that gave them recipes to make a cornstarch cone they would insert and they could also write away for some sort of rubber device that was a primitive IUD. All of this was illegal under the Comstock laws of the time that considered writing or speaking of birth control as "obscene".

[walegaja]

I read a pioneer book that spoke about an underground newsletter that many women received that gave them recipes to make a cornstarch cone they would insert and they could also write away for some sort of rubber device that was a primitive IUD. All of this was illegal under the Comstock laws of the time that considered writing or speaking of birth control as "obscene".

If we want to go back even further in history, the ancient Roman women used the contraceptive plant Silphium to extinction to try to control their family size. But contraception has been used since the dawn of civilization, some with moderate success. They even had lamb bladder or intestine condoms in medieval China - when conception was no longer viewed as a woman's responsibility. :)

[MatthewDuggar]

If we want to go back even further in history, the ancient Roman women used the contraceptive plant Silphium to extinction to try to control their family size. But contraception has been used since the dawn of civilization, some with moderate success. They even had lamb bladder or intestine condoms in medieval China - when conception was no longer viewed as a woman's responsibility. :)

Oh yes, that reminded that they mentioned using goat intestines for condoms. The women would prepare them by tying off one end and place one is a bowl of water by the bed just in case.

[roddma]

The thing is if Madonna Mark Wahlberg, Michael Jackson were /had been only kids , it would add fuel to the fire to only child stereotypes. Anyone who wants a a larger family has to consider individual needs of kids. Some will need more attention than others. Other kids will be more introverted and need their own space. I wasnt saying Mark or any of them blamed their upbringing. On the contrary Celine Dionne she got the most attention being the youngest of 14. There's only so much attention two parents can give multiple kids daily.