Elisabeth Elliot Dies at Age 88

[DomWackTroll]

“Elliot, the Christian author and speaker whose husband, Jim, was killed during their short-lived but legendary missionary work among unreached tribes in eastern Ecuador in the 1950s, passed away Sunday at 88, according to reports. She had been suffering from dementia.â€

christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/died-elisabeth-elliot-missionary-author-gates-of-splendor.html

[PrairieGirl]

I remember her book "Through Gates of Splendor" being very popular during my time in fundydom. I - along with every other person that I knew - had been gifted it at some point during our lives.

[DomWackTroll]

Here’s an interview with Tim Bayly in which she pulls the ol’ “my thriving, profitable career isn’t really a thriving, profitable careerâ€:

“The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the Church. And the wife is there to bless and support and help him. When women think that they've got to have a career of their own, or something else other than what a pastor's wife is normally supposed to do, I think it almost invariably leads to sorrow and breakdown in marriages.â€

And what she does may look like preaching, but oh, no, no, no!

“When I'm invited to speak in a church service on Sunday morning, I decline. If I am invited to speak in a mixed Sunday school class, for example, or a Sunday evening service, I will do so with one very clear understanding-that meeting (must) be under a man who is a leader and who then turns over to me for this limited period of time the podium… I just want it to be known that I'm not, in any way, trying to usurp authority; I'm simply testifying. So it is clearly understood that I am under the authority of this man who has just introduced me, and under the authority of this church. And it is for this limited time I am speaking.â€

baylyblog.com/blog/2015/06/woman-knows-not-her-time-elisabeth-elliot-1926-2015

[VVV]

Here’s an interview with Tim Bayly in which she pulls the ol’ “my thriving, profitable career isn’t really a thriving, profitable careerâ€:

“The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the Church. And the wife is there to bless and support and help him. When women think that they've got to have a career of their own, or something else other than what a pastor's wife is normally supposed to do, I think it almost invariably leads to sorrow and breakdown in marriages.â€

And what she does may look like preaching, but oh, no, no, no!

“When I'm invited to speak in a church service on Sunday morning, I decline. If I am invited to speak in a mixed Sunday school class, for example, or a Sunday evening service, I will do so with one very clear understanding-that meeting (must) be under a man who is a leader and who then turns over to me for this limited period of time the podium… I just want it to be known that I'm not, in any way, trying to usurp authority; I'm simply testifying. So it is clearly understood that I am under the authority of this man who has just introduced me, and under the authority of this church. And it is for this limited time I am speaking.â€

baylyblog.com/blog/2015/06/woman-knows-not-her-time-elisabeth-elliot-1926-2015

Those are some Olympics-worthy mental gymnastics.

[Cleopatra7]

Here’s an interview with Tim Bayly in which she pulls the ol’ “my thriving, profitable career isn’t really a thriving, profitable careerâ€:

“The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the Church. And the wife is there to bless and support and help him. When women think that they've got to have a career of their own, or something else other than what a pastor's wife is normally supposed to do, I think it almost invariably leads to sorrow and breakdown in marriages.â€

And what she does may look like preaching, but oh, no, no, no!

“When I'm invited to speak in a church service on Sunday morning, I decline. If I am invited to speak in a mixed Sunday school class, for example, or a Sunday evening service, I will do so with one very clear understanding-that meeting (must) be under a man who is a leader and who then turns over to me for this limited period of time the podium… I just want it to be known that I'm not, in any way, trying to usurp authority; I'm simply testifying. So it is clearly understood that I am under the authority of this man who has just introduced me, and under the authority of this church. And it is for this limited time I am speaking.â€

baylyblog.com/blog/2015/06/woman-knows-not-her-time-elisabeth-elliot-1926-2015

I'm always suspicious of women who make careers out of telling other women not to have careers. :shifty-kitty: :wtf:

[punkiepie]

Here’s an interview with Tim Bayly in which she pulls the ol’ “my thriving, profitable career isn’t really a thriving, profitable careerâ€:

“The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the Church. And the wife is there to bless and support and help him. When women think that they've got to have a career of their own, or something else other than what a pastor's wife is normally supposed to do, I think it almost invariably leads to sorrow and breakdown in marriages.â€

And what she does may look like preaching, but oh, no, no, no!

“When I'm invited to speak in a church service on Sunday morning, I decline. If I am invited to speak in a mixed Sunday school class, for example, or a Sunday evening service, I will do so with one very clear understanding-that meeting (must) be under a man who is a leader and who then turns over to me for this limited period of time the podium… I just want it to be known that I'm not, in any way, trying to usurp authority; I'm simply testifying. So it is clearly understood that I am under the authority of this man who has just introduced me, and under the authority of this church. And it is for this limited time I am speaking.â€

baylyblog.com/blog/2015/06/woman-knows-not-her-time-elisabeth-elliot-1926-2015

Fundie-lite author/speaker extraordinaire Beth Moore does the same rationalizing gymnastics. She says that she doesn't prevent men from coming to her conferences but she is not speaking to them, only the women: if the men learn something, great, but her intention is to teach only the women. Same thing for her books and bible studies. IMO, if she were really serious about the no preaching to men thing, she would make the conferences women only; but, the almighty dollar reigns!

[Pearl]

Ah, Elisabeth Elliot. I remember reading the story about her husband and finding it horrifying. Apparently, they were in love, but Jim felt that he was called to go to missions as a single man. So, they did not get married. Then, Jim kissed another woman and came to Elisabeth in shame. Finally, he wouldn't marry her until she learned the language of the tribe that they were going to minister too.

I was so mad at Jim Elliot when I read that book, I felt that he cheated on Elisabeth and then he was so demanding of her - making her jump through hoops before marrying him.

Looking back, I can see how much danger Elisabeth Elliot can be to women.

I think, now, that it is a danger for people to believe that just because the extremist lifestyle worked for them, that it doesn't mean that everyone should follow the same path. Even looking at the Bible, there were many different types of people that followed Jesus.

[FoxyMoxie]

I'm so frustrated by women like this. If they didn't swallow the don't-have-careers/don't-preach lines, they would be far happier in using their obvious talents (I may not care for the content but they're clearly good at what they do). IME of doing the whole mental gymnastics thing myself, it is so damn tiring.

[formergothardite]

She was really nice to me at EXCEL. So was her husband. But she has some fucked up beliefs and even back then I thought the story of her and Jim was strange. It was almost like he didn't really want to marry her. I think she really loved him, but I'm not sure about him.

[FoxyMoxie]

Definitely non-fundie friend - outspoken feminist lesbian priest - just shared her obit on the Gospel Coalition site on FB. Interesting because I didn't realise she had much of an impact on non-fundie/non-conservative Christians (friend is not conservative let alone fundie).

[Alcyone]

I feel a little sorry for her second and third husbands. She has been married to her third husband for over 35 years and yet she is still referred to by the name "Elliott", even though she was married to Jim Elliott for less than one tenth of that amount of time. One article I read today even said something along the lines of Mrs. Gren will be referred to hereafter as Elliott to "avoid confusion". Then, on FB, I saw that someone said that she was sad that Elisabeth had died but she was happy to think about how Jim would welcome her to heaven with open arms. No mention of her second husband, who is also presumably waiting for her in heaven and to whom she was married fairly briefly before his cancer death but still longer than she was married to Jim! It really makes me wonder if she used the name and the story, spinning a horrible, grizzly narrative into a romantic, selfless tale, to promote her long and lucrative career. Though I've seen and heard both her and her daughter speak in person and they seem pleasant enough, something about this whole thing really sits the wrong way with me.

[DomWackTroll]

I feel a little sorry for her second and third husbands. She has been married to her third husband for over 35 years and yet she is still referred to by the name "Elliott", even though she was married to Jim Elliott for less than one tenth of that amount of time. One article I read today even said something along the lines of Mrs. Gren will be referred to hereafter as Elliott to "avoid confusion". Then, on FB, I saw that someone said that she was sad that Elisabeth had died but she was happy to think about how Jim would welcome her to heaven with open arms. No mention of her second husband, who is also presumably waiting for her in heaven and to whom she was married fairly briefly before his cancer death but still longer than she was married to Jim! It really makes me wonder if she used the name and the story, spinning a horrible, grizzly narrative into a romantic, selfless tale, to promote her long and lucrative career. Though I've seen and heard both her and her daughter speak in person and they seem pleasant enough, something about this whole thing really sits the wrong way with me.

You'd think someone like... oh, I don't know... Tim Bayly would have a teensy-weensy problem with this. Bayly is constantly ranting against "celebrity pastors," but it seems he is not completely immune to their charms. And a woman, at that!

[Alcyone]

Ah, Elisabeth Elliot. I remember reading the story about her husband and finding it horrifying. Apparently, they were in love, but Jim felt that he was called to go to missions as a single man. So, they did not get married. Then, Jim kissed another woman and came to Elisabeth in shame. Finally, he wouldn't marry her until she learned the language of the tribe that they were going to minister too.

I was so mad at Jim Elliot when I read that book, I felt that he cheated on Elisabeth and then he was so demanding of her - making her jump through hoops before marrying him.

Looking back, I can see how much danger Elisabeth Elliot can be to women.

I think, now, that it is a danger for people to believe that just because the extremist lifestyle worked for them, that it doesn't mean that everyone should follow the same path. Even looking at the Bible, there were many different types of people that followed Jesus.

I read their story long ago and I didn't remember the part about Jim kissing another girl but I got the same feeling you got about him not being as crazy about Elisabeth as she was about him. It did seem like he made her prove herself to him and perhaps even thought himself a bit superior to her.

[nelliebelle1197]

I remember reading about them when I was in IFB elementary/middle school years ago. Her stuff along with Corrie ten Boom and Catherine Marshall was about all we had in the library outside of theology and even Fox's Book of Martyrs (don't ask me how that got there!).

[hoipolloi]

She always struck me as an incredible hypocrite. Never understood why so many fundies worshipped her.

In a 1989 newsletter to the sheeple (elisabethelliot.org/newsletters2/jan.feb.1989.pdf), Elliot brags about how she made her kids sit down & shut up while she worked on "important" things:

When Valerie [Eliot's daughter] was Colleen's [Valerie's daughter] age, she had to learn to play quietly alone for a good portion of every day because I was occupied in Bible translation work or in teaching literacy and Bible classes in our home.

Once again, it's do as I say, not as I do.

And, big surprise, Eliot was a charter member of the first time obedience beat-your-kid school of thought (elisabethelliot.org/newsletters2/may.jun.1988.pdf):

After the first time or two of practice, spank after you've spoke once....One or two firm "paddles" on a small out-stretched hand are language that an under-two child understands very clearly.

What an awful woman.

[zebra #13]

I feel a little sorry for her second and third husbands. She has been married to her third husband for over 35 years and yet she is still referred to by the name "Elliott", even though she was married to Jim Elliott for less than one tenth of that amount of time. One article I read today even said something along the lines of Mrs. Gren will be referred to hereafter as Elliott to "avoid confusion". Then, on FB, I saw that someone said that she was sad that Elisabeth had died but she was happy to think about how Jim would welcome her to heaven with open arms. No mention of her second husband, who is also presumably waiting for her in heaven and to whom she was married fairly briefly before his cancer death but still longer than she was married to Jim! It really makes me wonder if she used the name and the story, spinning a horrible, grizzly narrative into a romantic, selfless tale, to promote her long and lucrative career. Though I've seen and heard both her and her daughter speak in person and they seem pleasant enough, something about this whole thing really sits the wrong way with me.

It's the *when* you become famous thang--Erica Jong was not married to Mr. Jong for long, but that is when (her second marriage) she got famous, so. . . . As a writer, I realized soon after my divorce that if I didn't want to be known by my first husband's name forever, I needed to find another. Quickly (I was doing a fair amount of publishing then). Got a lawyer, went to court and got a brand new name! (Didn't want to go back to my maiden name which was simply the name of the man my *mother* had married.) It was miserable. It was an amazingly gorgeous name, on badges, and lists--people would come up to me at meetings and tell me how beautiful it was. . . . But no computer ever got it right, my old friends urped, and I endured till my second marriage, where I quickly adopted the new name, and have lived with it twice as long without being married to him as I did married. Live. Learn.

[imokit]

She always struck me as an incredible hypocrite. Never understood why so many fundies worshipped her.

In a 1989 newsletter to the sheeple (elisabethelliot.org/newsletters2/jan.feb.1989.pdf), Elliot brags about how she made her kids sit down & shut up while she worked on "important" things:

Once again, it's do as I say, not as I do.

And, big surprise, Eliot was a charter member of the first time obedience beat-your-kid school of thought (elisabethelliot.org/newsletters2/may.jun.1988.pdf):

What an awful woman.

:pink-shock: In that article their is no concept of a child understand the command. If you're training a baby to come, and tell them to come once, before you start spanking them, how do they learn what that means? Surely it can't be disobedience unless the command is understood? :angry-banghead:

[DomWackTroll]

It’s funny that guys like Tim Bayly and RC Sproul Jr. hold this woman up as a beacon of biblical gender roles, because she turns them into flaming drama queens. Here’s RC Jr.’s memorial post:

“…I will confess that I have never been more intimidated by any woman… I may have never been more intimidated by any man, as much as I was intimidated by Elisabeth Elliot… I was literally trembling when I approached her… I sat down beside her and she gave me a gracious smile as I stammered out something like this: ‘Mrs. Elliott, I want to thank you. God has given us the means of grace by which we might be sanctified. He has given us prayer, the preaching of his word, and the sacraments, but apart from those great gifts there has been no one,’ and I lost control of my voice then as I do now, ‘there has been no one who has had a more profound impact in the sanctification of my wife than you…â€

rcsprouljr.com/jce/elisabeth-elliot/

[Jasmar]

The sanctification of his wife?? But, but...I thought it was his job to sanctify his wife! :o

Moron.

[DomWackTroll]

The sanctification of his wife?? But, but...I thought it was his job to sanctify his wife! :o

Moron.

Right. And isn't it dangerously feminist for Elisabeth to go around intimidating men like Junior? Whatever happened to a "meek and quiet spirit"?

[elizasc]

A number of my very mainstream friends of various denominations have posted her obit with kind words. So confused.

[DomWackTroll]

The way RC Jr. rebuts all my points on Facebook, you'd almost think he was reading Free Jinger rather than feeding the poor or something: “Elisabeth Elliot was an iron lady because she always remembered she was a little girl.â€

facebook.com/rcsprouljr/posts/830327667048763

Awwwww…

[salex]

The way RC Jr. rebuts all my points on Facebook, you'd almost think he was reading Free Jinger rather than feeding the poor or something: “Elisabeth Elliot was an iron lady because she always remembered she was a little girl.â€

WTF does he even mean by that? I went to read the whole post for context... but that was his whole post! :?

[salex]

WTF does he even mean by that? I went to read the whole post for context... but that was his whole post! :?

He calls his wife a "Prairie Muffin" which brings to mind cow pies and road apples.....

[DomWackTroll]

WTF does he even mean by that? I went to read the whole post for context... but that was his whole post! :?

It means that even if she spent her entire adult life earning lots of money from her CAREER-- writing, speaking, preaching, teaching both men and women, producing Christian videos, traveling the world-- deep inside she "identified" as a widdle housewife so it's all okay.