Jen Fishburne’s Daughter Natasha Epstein in Big Trouble

[DomWackTroll]

Simply put, he has some whacked out beliefs, but I don't think he's nearly as crazy as Jen was / is?

Really? I've seen so many online comments of his that reference his various mental illnesses and serious anger issues. I'm not talking about what others have said (which is plenty), but what has come straight from the horse's mouth. So I think of that and then I look at Sarai's really disturbing Facebook page and I think, "How on earth do these people even live together?" It doesn't matter that they agree on politics-- so did Mark and Jen (hell, they still do). Two people who are that egomaniacal and aggressive... Well, I just don't think they're going to make it.

[Palimpsest]

If Natasha is in jail, and Jen is going to scamper off on this travelling ministry with the new man in her life, who is caring for Natasha's child?

If she is married to Jeff Moore, he is only #3. I don't think she was married when she met Mark. "Wicked" but unmarried. She had an adulterous relationship during that marriage. Then there was interim husband whose name I cannot remember, and now Jeff.

Copying this from earlier in this thread:

From "Jen's Gems" blog, Jen's Story Part 1:

When Mark and I met, we were both living quite wicked lifestyles as unbelievers. We were both soldiers in the US Army stationed in Germany and we ran off to Denmark on a “Darling Denmark†tour to get married in 1985, just four months after we met. Getting married does not change a wicked lifestyle, however, and we continued on in our wickedness. One of the ways in which I was wicked was in committing adultery against my husband, and that sin led to a child, who was given up for adoption.

CND: I wish my memory was better but IIRC, Jen originally had custody of both Alaina and her son, but there was a huge custody battle and they went to live with Mark at some point. I don't think the details were ever public. Jen started complaining about not having seen any of her children for X amount of time a couple of years ago.

I'm confused. In that 9/5 FB post about Jen visiting Natasha in jail before she leaves the state, she says she hasn't seen her for 6 months. Why not, if she is such a devoted mother? It's not that she doesn't know where Natasha is - unless N. is refusing to see Jen too.

[Palimpsest]

Really? I've seen so many online comments of his that reference his various mental illnesses and serious anger issues. I'm not talking about what others have said (which is plenty), but what has come straight from the horse's mouth. So I think of that and then I look at Sarai's really disturbing Facebook page and I think, "How on earth do these people even live together?" It doesn't matter that they agree on politics-- so did Mark and Jen (hell, they still do). Two people who are that egomaniacal and aggressive... Well, I just don't think they're going to make it.

It is possible that Mark acts out less in public than Jen. Going by her account alone, the DV incidents were behind closed doors, and many of the confrontations at BCA were Jen alone. Mark supported her attempts at reconciliation with BCA and wrote or signed letters, certainly. However, I don't recollect accounts of him invading the "compound" and trying to interact with members as she did.

I abhor the way DPIAT and BCA treated the Epsteins, but there is no doubt that they are/were a hellish couple to deal with. I think they both have serious mental health issues. That is what I fault BCA for - trying to handle it by preaching womanly submission and prayer rather than advising secular treatment.

Mark's latest marriage with Sarai - phew! Crazy stuff. Also, how does his return to Judaism jive with Jen's unholy attraction to Kinism these days?

[PrairieGirl]

They really do "step out in faith", don't they?!

We are starting a travelling ministry but we don't yet have the means to travel!! Praise God!!

ETA Maybe Sparkling Lauren could pop over and join in the fun. She has a camper van and seems to be ready for a change.... :whistle:

Seriously, what the fuck is it with these fundies begging for trailers? It's almost like they feel they have really made it if they have a lousy trailer being pulled behind them. Do they not know that Jesus also traveled far and wide to minister to people, and he didn't need a trailer? Hell, I don't even think he had a donkey to ride! So maybe they should take a cue from Jesus and just walk all over while "serving".

And this whole Jen situation is fucked up. The fact that there are children involved in this mess breaks my heart.

[Howl]

Maybe they can work something out with the Rodriguez' RV. Praise God!

[apandaaries]

Simply put, he has some whacked out beliefs, but I don't think he's nearly as crazy as Jen was / is?

Uh, have you checked out his facebook page? Or his wife's page, which is under a version of his name? This guys's connection to reality is tenuous at best, but he's found the right group of people to support his paranoia.

[CloakNDagger]

Uh, have you checked out his facebook page? Or his wife's page, which is under a version of his name? This guys's connection to reality is tenuous at best, but he's found the right group of people to support his paranoia.

I'm not saying he isn't crazy, just that I wouldn't bet on divorce being inevitable.

[hoipolloi]

Mark and Jen make me think of two wildly spinning objects that, for a time, can be in proximity to each other but inevitably get forced apart, violently, as their individual spins continue on their self-destructive paths. The spinning has only gotten wilder & more destructive over the years. Their kids never had a chance.

[ViolaSebastian]

I'm not saying he isn't crazy, just that I wouldn't bet on divorce being inevitable.

Sure, there's always the possibility of a murder/suicide... :?

[DomWackTroll]

Well, Jen and Jeff already got into an accident...

facebook.com/Jensgems/timeline/story?ut=43&wstart=0&wend=1443682799&hash=1196141326265909070&pagefilter=3&pnref=story

...but luckily not one was hurt. Jen's broken foot is still "slowly healing" because she can't afford to go to a doctor. And now she's basically on the street. But it's okay, 'cause God told her to get rid of all her stuff. :roll:

[mirele]

I met Jen Fishburne on May 22 in Pensacola, when she recorded this video interview for a documentary on young earth creationist Kent Hovind's legal travails. I'm sitting off-screen, to Jen's left, on the floor. (Uncomfortable, but the coolest place in the room due to all the lights.)

[bBvideo 560,340:2kjxelyz]

[/bBvideo]

And her foot was broken then. If it were me, I'd be getting a doctor to look at it.

[Palimpsest]

Well, Jen and Jeff already got into an accident...

facebook.com/Jensgems/timeline/story?ut=43&wstart=0&wend=1443682799&hash=1196141326265909070&pagefilter=3&pnref=story

...but luckily not one was hurt. Jen's broken foot is still "slowly healing" because she can't afford to go to a doctor. And now she's basically on the street. But it's okay, 'cause God told her to get rid of all her stuff. :roll:

Direct quote: "Thank you, Jesus, for raining extra money on us and protecting us!" :roll:

[CloakNDagger]

Wow, time has not done her well. That video = shudders.

[DomWackTroll]

My daughter, Natasha, has court today. She is on trial for a murder related charge -- disposing of a corpse. She was offered ten years last month and she refused it. If she does not make a plea deal today, she will probably go to trial. I know she is trying to get off on a technicality, but her attorney is trying to make a deal of less than ten years. If she goes to trial, she is facing up to 20 years.

When asked about Natasha’s attorney:

Public. She had a really good private one, but she refused to follow his advice so he finally said he couldn't represent her any more. However, he continues to be my very close friend.

How that last tidbit is relevant is beyond me.

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10207854527748294?pnref=story

[hoipolloi]

When asked about Natasha’s attorney:

How that last tidbit is relevant is beyond me.

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10207854527748294?pnref=story

Somehow, anyone who's a "close friend" of Jen's strikes me as being bad for most other people, Natasha included.

[FundieWatcher]

If she had gotten 10 years, she would have done ~5 with good behavior credit right? But now she will likely get 20 and have to do ~10? She should took the deal. I mean I don't want to do 5 years either but it isn't looking good otherwise. ( I mean Steve whatshisface got a life sentence and did one year.So honestly who knows though.)

[treemom]

Direct quote: "Thank you, Jesus, for raining extra money on us and protecting us!" :roll:

Yeah, making it rain money is probably not something I would say in the same sentence as Jesus.

I know how the visual of Jesus making it rain money.

[DomWackTroll]

Thank you to all who are praying for my daughter. She took a plea deal for five years, and has credit for two years' time served. I am asking everyone to pray that this time would be when she comes to know Jesus, to know His deep love for her, and when she allows Him to radically change her heart.

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10207864496197499?pnref=story

Why would Natasha get credit for two years time served? She was just arrested for this crime in June, so how could she have served two years on it? Is it good behavior?

[Bbfamteam]

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10207864496197499?pnref=story

Why would Natasha get credit for two years time served? She was just arrested for this crime in June, so how could she have served two years on it? Is it good behavior?

My guess is that the two years credit will be given to her as offenders usually get double credit for time served. If she has been in jail 3 months that would have her start at 6 months into her sentence when she gets into prison. However if it is based on good behavior credits then she could possibly lose that time if she commits infractions while incarcerated. So she would serve 2.5 years of a 5 year sentence if my math is correct and she follows the rules.

[DomWackTroll]

Now Jen's decided that it's okay for women, specifically Jen, to "lead worship." Oh, and "camping" is the new "homeless."

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10207898228040774?pnref=story

[apandaaries]

Do yall really have nothing better to do with your life than to talk about other people?  How would you feel if everyone sat around talking about your family all over the Internet. Straight gossiping. No one likes a gossip, I don't care who or what religion you are. & if you got anything else to say about my family, you can say it to me in person bruh @DomWackTroll

ETA: I shall remove the personal information in the hopes that the writer will choose to edit his own post in the mean time. 

Sup, bruh?  The anger issues are clear but misdirected.  First step to keep your family off the internet is to KEEP THEM OFF THE INTERNET.  All these comments are public; everything we discuss here is out in the open elsewhere.  

It's really not cool to go threatening people online.  This thread is dedicated to a situation spun so far out of control that a life was lost, police involved, and families shattered. Online evidence can actually go pretty far these days.  Take a few deep breaths, step away from the computer, talk to someone with a calm head.  

Way too much of your family life has been spilled online.  It's not your fault, but how you deal with it is your responsibility.  We all know way too much because too much was exposed by others online.  People will have opinions so long as they have brains, and we are a cerebral group here at FJ.  You're going to need to find a way to cope with that without violence.  Right now, any potential employer could google your name and see your threatening comment and personal information exposed online.  Not a good long term plan, no matter how deep the pain is right now.  

I truly feel for you. You are not responsible for their actions or what they put online or elsewhere.  But this path isn't positive and comments like that will fuck you up for sure. It's time to back off, bruh. 

[Peas n carrots]

I'm sorry some of your family members have failed you so much Josh. I understand why you would be angry, but as @amandaaries said, it is misdirected.

If I were you I would consider editing or removing your threat to @DomWackTroll.

[Palimpsest]

I don't have much to add to what @‌amandaaries has already said so well and agree with @‌peas n carrots. 

I am also sorry that your family has gone through so much, Josh, and understand why you are angry about it being discussed on the internet .  However, threatening people is a very bad idea. 

[Lucky]

I'm late to this party but I found this discussion today and wanted to answer a few questions I saw earlier in the thread (in case anyone is still interested), and I wanted to say something to Josh as well.

Jen cheated on Mark during their marriage, got pregnant, and gave the child up for adoption (not Alicia).  Mark never really got over it, and she happily tortured him over his "inadequate" forgiveness of her sins.  

They brought that baggage to Doug and BCA, and from the beginning, Jen clinically fixated on Doug.  Mark noticed, and old feelings of distrust made him ragey.  Multiple attempts at counseling them were made and they failed.

After Jen was excommunicated, she began her infamous smear campaign that involved thousands of hours spent on writing articles/emails/letters and following Doug around the country on his speaking engagements, trying to force him to "reconcile" with her.  She neglected her children, and made the Doug fixation more obvious.  

Soon after they left, Jen cheated on Mark again (his name was Dorrington or something), and they divorced.  During that year, Jen became physically violent with Josh and lost custody of both him and Alicia.  Some of this was discussed on Jen's blog, but she deleted it.  Since then, many of her former supporters have called her out on her repeated infidelity and her Doug fixation, and she's turned on them.  

Shortly after this, she married Larry and Facebook has adequately documented how that relationship/divorce went.  

In short, this woman is a sociopath, an attention whore, and a giant drama queen.  She's also an embarrassment to anyone who takes seriously the cause of holding Doug Phillips accountable.  I believe her fixation with Doug still exists which is why she latched on to Lourdes and now Nolan.  She'll do anything to have an effect on Doug.

To Josh:  You and I corresponded for a while years ago on your mom's blog, and I'll repeat what I told you then.  NONE of this is your fault.  You were dragged into a horrible situation by your parents and were helpless to effect it.  You deserved better, both from them and from Doug.  The damage has left its footprints on you and Natasha, but you still have a chance to minimize it.  It's not too late for you.  You're very young.  Cut your losses, wash your hands of these toxic people, and build a new life centered around good values.  Many people stand ready to help you.