Hate muslim ralley scared ask for 10 mil for protection

[2xx1xy1JD]

I agree. Of course, it's only a very small group of Muslims who reacts this way, but those Islamists are truly dangerous. And there are more than enough examples to show that they will kill people.

Just to name a few, Charlie Hebdo is one recent example, the deadly terror attack in Denmark this year (theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/15/copenhagen-shooting-bar-showered-bullets-witnesses), the fact that critical authors, journalists and cartoonists have to have 24/7 security protection and so on.

Whether or not it's a "very small group" depends in part on where you are.

In the United States and Canada, the ratio of extremists to normal law-abiding citizens is low. They exist, but they live in a multicultural, democratic society where freedom of speech is valued, so they are outliers.

By contrast, Pakistan still sentences those convicted of blasphemy to death. See http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... th-penalty In that context, a perfectly normal law abiding citizen may support killing those who insult their religion.

[Burris]

When people start to discuss that we shouldn't "provoke" Islamists or people who are threatened are to blame, I just want to scream.

My own view is a bit more...nuanced...than that: No one should be attempting to limit the freedom of anyone else - and especially not through threats and acts of violence. Those that do are without excuse, no matter what was the nature of the insult they faced.

When someone threatens to kill you, definitely take it seriously.

That said, when someone goes with a group of armed people to a mosque and deliberately provokes the worshipers there by doing one of those things that are anatema to their faith, he is begging for trouble. Again, some of his people were armed. Even if every Muslim at that particular mosque overtly opposes terrorism, some of them are going to be incredibly angry that a man showed up with his armed friends specifically to insult them at their place of worship. (Would he react calmly if a group of armed Muslims showed up outside his church with the most offensive signs they could find? Whatever happened to "doing to your neighbour as you'd have him do to you"?)

This idiot likely did collect a stack of threats - but what he did and how he did it were calculated to achieve that end specifically. He's the one who put his own family in danger - not by speaking his mind but by doing it in the most obnoxious way possible: The reaction he gets is not a byproduct of his speech, but the end-goal of it. He wanted this to happen. He expected it. He's attempting to raise money from it.

The fact he's even still alive is evidence in itself that the vast majority of Muslims at that mosque are non-violent. Even if there were just 20 adults armed with whatever implements they could find who rushed him and his friends before police arrived, he or others would be dead or close enough to it that no one would need to ask for copies of those death threats he receives (and again I have no doubt that he does receive death threats - although with the coverage this story is getting, the majority of those threats are probably from people who weren't on-site during his demonstration; people - likely the same few over and over - who make a profession out of attempting to speak on behalf of all Islam).

As for this claim two Muslims from that mosque tried to kill, link please.

[Trynn]

I could be halfway convinced to leave the guy to his fate for being a hateful bastard, but I couldn't justify the same thing for his family. However, I'd be more likely to send money for a police escort rather than whatever security measures this guy thinks they need, particularly since I'd never risk supporting this guy in his political career.

[Clementine]

As for this claim two Muslims from that mosque tried to kill, link please.

It was reported on CNN:

The Islamic Community Center of Phoenix is the mosque that Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi attended for a time. They're the men who drove from Arizona to a Dallas suburb to shoot up a Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest there. Both were killed by police early this month.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/29/us/mo ... n-contest/

[Burris]

It was reported on CNN:

The Islamic Community Center of Phoenix is the mosque that Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi attended for a time. They're the men who drove from Arizona to a Dallas suburb to shoot up a Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest there. Both were killed by police early this month.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/29/us/mo ... n-contest/

Misunderstood you: I thought you meant at the rally. (If there had been murder at the picket, the news everywhere would still be covering the event as a lead story.)

So this guy protested, armed, at the mosque where two men who had shot into a free speech event had once worshiped.

REALLY?

He is basically feigning surprise: 'Oh, my family feels unsafe now so I need $10 Million to turn my home into an armoured fortress - and, of course, to run for office. Aaaand if there's any left over I'll donate what remains to a children's hospital (because I am just that sort of guy).

'Well yes, I knew (1) a former marine (2) wearing a "Fuck Islam" shirt showing up (3) armed (4) to commit what Muslims see as blasphemy (5) at what I consider to be a center of Islamist thought would provoke people to anger...uh, yeah, I knew they'd perceive me as a threat, especially after the hate-mail they themselves likely received when two of their members - well, actually, two men who "attended for a time" - went on a shooting spree not long ago. But hey, I did nothing at all wrong (except for showing up at their place of worship armed and with other armed people for what I claim is a peaceful protest). I can't understand why they would misinterpret my attempt to exercise free speech as a threat to their continued existence. I think it's because they're Muslim.'

From the article you linked:

The rally was to start about the same time evening prayers were taking place inside the center. The rally was to feature its own cartoon contest, similar to the one targeted in Texas.

"I think the whole thing, the cartoon contest especially, I think it's stupid and ridiculous," Ritzheimer said beforehand, "but it's what needs to take place in order to expose the true colors of Islam."

SERIOUSLY??? After doing that, this idiot tries to raise money 'for his family' because now they feel unsafe? No - they were pretty much unsafe the second this man learned how to kill people and the danger continues now that he's attempting to make a martyr of himself - and he'll take his family with him - for no other reason than "to expose the true colors of Islam."

Why the fuck would anyone part with even a cent of their money to support this jackass?

The ARMED rally was a stupid idea designed to piss people off. Now - and only now, supposedly - he's surprised that it worked? So surprised that he's scrambling to raise money for the protection of his family?

His prior attempts to sell hatred for his own benefit were an abysmal failure, but I'm sure that played no role at all in this fuckery.

[doggie]

really if it would not lower things to such peoples level go to a few of the churches that preach such hate and piss on a cross with Jesus on it right in front of it. just hide the wewe so you can't be seen exposing yourself. best a woman in a dress does it.

Hey maybe he can hire George Zimmerman as a body guard.

[snarkopolis]

Let's summarize. A bunch of white guys with guns have an I hate Islam rally in front of a mosque right before prayer service and "they" are the ones in danger ? :pink-shock:

If someone showed up in front of my house protesting me while armed with automatic weapons I would think that "I" should be the wounded (threatened) party. After all, wouldn't most sane people think that the mob out front is the danger (to me) not me?

[salex]

Don't forget to mention (it is often forgotten) that the Charlie Hebdo murderers also murdered four jews in the kosher store and after the attack in Copenhagen the killer murdered a jewish security guard outside the synagogue. I wonder what they did to "provoke" violence.

Jews seems to be just as "provoking" as Muhammad cartoonists in Europe.

Also the murders in the jewish museum in Brussels last summer, four dead, the killer Mehdi Nemmouche was a jihadist who had returned from Syria fighting for islamists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Mus ... m_shooting

Plus numerous attacks on a smaller scale and Malmö, once the jewish centre in Sweden, is soon judenrein after the attacks and threats the jews have to face.

When people start to discuss that we shouldn't "provoke" Islamists or people who are threatened are to blame, I just want to scream.

Meanwhile, in my area, there was an attack on the local Jewish Center and nearby Jewish retirement home last year. It was not committed by a jihadist, but by an aging KKK and White Supremist. He managed to kill 3 people at these locations, and was very disappointed, later, when he learned he had killed to Methodists and a Roman Catholic. http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/15/us/kansas ... -shooting/

[salex]

The pictures of the guys with guns outside the mosque troubles me for the following reasons:

It reminds me of old pictures of african militias in countries at war over the years, where an old pick up truck filled with men and boys all armed with high power guns roaming about to "enforce" something. It seems like a tiny thing could lead to mayhem.

The response on my fakebook page (the one I set up to read the fundies we follow here without polluting my real facebook, and where I am friends with a variety of right wingers who were in "christian" groups I joined to look less stalkery) is filled with people thinking this was just great and should be taken to every mosque. Given that half these people also think the pope is the antichrist, how long until they are showing up with their constitutional carry guns outside any church/ mosque or synagogue they disagree with?

How long until we see anti abortion protestors standing outside the abortion providers with open carry guns?

I am not anti gun and suspect most of the people I know have guns, but I find the use of them to intimidate others publicly to be troubling on so many levels. I lived in Wichita and saw Dr. Tiller's clinic protested for years (blown up a couple of times) How much sooner would he have been murdered if this public carry mania had been going on back then?

[Clementine]

Meanwhile, in my area, there was an attack on the local Jewish Center and nearby Jewish retirement home last year. It was not committed by a jihadist, but by an aging KKK and White Supremist. He managed to kill 3 people at these locations, and was very disappointed, later, when he learned he had killed to Methodists and a Roman Catholic. http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/15/us/kansas ... -shooting/

I hope that nobody is defending him. "I don't agree with the murders, BUT you know..." like I have heard over and over again after the Charlie Hebdo murders.

[Clementine]

Misunderstood you: I thought you meant at the rally. (If there had been murder at the picket, the news everywhere would still be covering the event as a lead story.)

So this guy protested, armed, at the mosque where two men who had shot into a free speech event had once worshiped.

REALLY?

He is basically feigning surprise: 'Oh, my family feels unsafe now so I need $10 Million to turn my home into an armoured fortress - and, of course, to run for office. Aaaand if there's any left over I'll donate what remains to a children's hospital (because I am just that sort of guy).

'Well yes, I knew (1) a former marine (2) wearing a "Fuck Islam" shirt showing up (3) armed (4) to commit what Muslims see as blasphemy (5) at what I consider to be a center of Islamist thought would provoke people to anger...uh, yeah, I knew they'd perceive me as a threat, especially after the hate-mail they themselves likely received when two of their members - well, actually, two men who "attended for a time" - went on a shooting spree not long ago. But hey, I did nothing at all wrong (except for showing up at their place of worship armed and with other armed people for what I claim is a peaceful protest). I can't understand why they would misinterpret my attempt to exercise free speech as a threat to their continued existence. I think it's because they're Muslim.'

From the article you linked:

SERIOUSLY??? After doing that, this idiot tries to raise money 'for his family' because now they feel unsafe? No - they were pretty much unsafe the second this man learned how to kill people and the danger continues now that he's attempting to make a martyr of himself - and he'll take his family with him - for no other reason than "to expose the true colors of Islam."

Why the fuck would anyone part with even a cent of their money to support this jackass?

The ARMED rally was a stupid idea designed to piss people off. Now - and only now, supposedly - he's surprised that it worked? So surprised that he's scrambling to raise money for the protection of his family?

His prior attempts to sell hatred for his own benefit were an abysmal failure, but I'm sure that played no role at all in this fuckery.

I live in an area where the local mosque is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood, has a history of inviting speakers who spew hate about jews and gays, and the mosque has a lot of members and followers that openly support the Islamic State. The former imam got caught for trying to smuggle weapons to Syria and one of the former members is in jail for trying to commit a massacre at a Danish newspaper. So is the son in law of the former chairwoman.

Ironically, it is located in a very gay-friendly area where also a lot of jews live.

That mosque recently asked for more money for protection from the government.

I guess that I could say "Why the fuck would anyone part with even a cent of their money to support these jackasses?", but I don't, even though I am very much against what they do and who they support.

I leave it to the police, the security police and the authorities to deal with them and I do not want a private vigilante to do that or threaten them. Even though they do work hard to be disliked in a very liberal country.

[2xx1xy1JD]

An armed rally and a position of targeting ALL Muslims is hateful and threatening. At that point, it's not about freely expressing beliefs at all. The rally crossed the line into harassing and targeting people.

This idiot's efforts were also supremely counter-productive. He comes across as a bigoted fool. The iman comes across as incredibly reasonable and peaceful in contrast, and wins over some of those at the rally. His aggressive and hateful tone meant that any sort of dialogue or reasonable point was impossible.

If 2 people who had attended that mosque had been involved in the Texas shooting, that would be something to discuss. How involved with the mosque were they? Were they radicalized at that mosque or elsewhere? What is happening at that mosque that might push people toward or away from radicalism? The problem is that when you start off with blanket hatred from the get-go, you miss actually focusing on specific reasons for concern. It's not possible to make blanket statements about 1.6 billion people, so arguments that Islam in general is good or bad are nonsensical. Unfortunately, the discussion doesn't seem to rise above that level and specific questions don't get asked. If you think about the entire religion as either good or bad, you don't bother to look at trends. You don't bother to ask how they regard the views of Sayyid Qutb. You don't explore how the issue of jihad is treated within their own teachings and sermons. You don't find out if offensive hadiths are embraced. You don't distinguish between different sects within Islam, or find out how relationships between different sects are promoted.

[Clementine]

An armed rally and a position of targeting ALL Muslims is hateful and threatening. At that point, it's not about freely expressing beliefs at all. The rally crossed the line into harassing and targeting people.

This idiot's efforts were also supremely counter-productive. He comes across as a bigoted fool. The iman comes across as incredibly reasonable and peaceful in contrast, and wins over some of those at the rally. His aggressive and hateful tone meant that any sort of dialogue or reasonable point was impossible.

If 2 people who had attended that mosque had been involved in the Texas shooting, that would be something to discuss. How involved with the mosque were they? Were they radicalized at that mosque or elsewhere? What is happening at that mosque that might push people toward or away from radicalism? The problem is that when you start off with blanket hatred from the get-go, you miss actually focusing on specific reasons for concern. It's not possible to make blanket statements about 1.6 billion people, so arguments that Islam in general is good or bad are nonsensical. Unfortunately, the discussion doesn't seem to rise above that level and specific questions don't get asked. If you think about the entire religion as either good or bad, you don't bother to look at trends. You don't bother to ask how they regard the views of Sayyid Qutb. You don't explore how the issue of jihad is treated within their own teachings and sermons. You don't find out if offensive hadiths are embraced. You don't distinguish between different sects within Islam, or find out how relationships between different sects are promoted.

Was the demonstration legal? From a European view it seems crazy but your gun laws are very different. Was the police present?

The good thing when you let extremists freely express their view is that they come across like fools or reveal their hate. And I agree with everything you said btw. Still he and his family shouldn't be threatened for it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

A demonstration like with armed protesters would have been illegal in Canada, but in Arizona people have the right to guns so it may have been perfectly legal.

[latraviata]

I live in an area where the local mosque is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood, has a history of inviting speakers who spew hate about jews and gays, and the mosque has a lot of members and followers that openly support the Islamic State. The former imam got caught for trying to smuggle weapons to Syria and one of the former members is in jail for trying to commit a massacre at a Danish newspaper. So is the son in law of the former chairwoman.

Ironically, it is located in a very gay-friendly area where also a lot of jews live.

That mosque recently asked for more money for protection from the government.

I guess that I could say "Why the fuck would anyone part with even a cent of their money to support these jackasses?", but I don't, even though I am very much against what they do and who they support.

I leave it to the police, the security police and the authorities to deal with them and I do not want a private vigilante to do that or threaten them. Even though they do work hard to be disliked in a very liberal country.

http://swedenreport.org/2015/06/02/goodbye-sweden/

[Clementine]

http://swedenreport.org/2015/06/02/goodbye-sweden/

I know LaTraviata. It's a very scary situation we're in and it's obvious to anybody but our politicians that the things that we have prided ourself with, and that future generations worked so hard to achieve, are going down the drain. I am thinking about good free healthcare, social wellfare system and good free education system and a low crime rate. It's already kneeling and if something radical isn't done yesterday, it'll be gone in probably less than a decade.

I am happy that the older generations in my family don't live to experience this, they would be heartbroken. We talk about moving to Denmark or Norway, if they will still take in Swedes by then.

[latraviata]

I know LaTraviata. It's a very scary situation we're in and it's obvious to anybody but our politicians that the things that we have prided ourself with, and that future generations worked so hard to achieve, are going down the drain. I am thinking about good free healthcare, social wellfare system and good free education system and a low crime rate. It's already kneeling and if something radical isn't done yesterday, it'll be gone in probably less than a decade.

I am happy that the older generations in my family don't live to experience this, they would be heartbroken. We talk about moving to Denmark or Norway, if they will still take in Swedes by then.

Clementine, everybody could have written exactly the same about the Netherlands, France, Germany and other west European countries, trust me.

This:

http://therightscoop.com/brigitte-gabri ... yed-badly/

[salex]

I hope that nobody is defending him. "I don't agree with the murders, BUT you know..." like I have heard over and over again after the Charlie Hebdo murders.

I have not heard any defense of him publically, however the white supremists and KKK are likely pleased at the attempt, but mocking of his failure.

I have heard people give halfhearted praise for the man who murdered Dr. Tiller in his church in Wichita, but they probably thought I'd agree.... I didn't.

[Clementine]

I have not heard any defense of him publically, however the white supremists and KKK are likely pleased at the attempt, but mocking of his failure.

I have heard people give halfhearted praise for the man who murdered Dr. Tiller in his church in Wichita, but they probably thought I'd agree.... I didn't.

I am surprised to hear that the KKK is still around. I thought it was a shameful historical movement that basically had died out.

[Clementine]

Clementine, everybody could have written exactly the same about the Netherlands, France, Germany and other west European countries, trust me.

This:

http://therightscoop.com/brigitte-gabri ... yed-badly/

I know. The big difference is that we are a small country, 9,5 millions, so any change will have a large impact and there are few people who are working and supporting the rest.

[DaisyD]

I haven't figured out multi-quote yet, so please bear with me.

On making blanket statements about a religion: This is how they think. It's why, when we criticize one fundi family, they whine that we are persecuting Christians as a whole. They can't differentiate one person from the whole.

Arizona gun laws: Currently if you are allowed to own a firearm, you are allowed to carry it concealed anywhere except, I think schools and bars (there may be other places that I don't remember). So any peaceful rally could potentially have hundreds of guns that you just don't see. This makes the waving around of the guns even more sensationalist at this "event". There was no need for it from a safety standpoint. This was a blatant attempt to make money. He is deluded enough to think (or maybe not) that enough people would praise his disgusting behavior and send him money that it was worth his family's lives. If someone killed him, of course, they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Was his behavior illegal? I'm not a lawyer, but being able to own a gun doesn't mean you can threaten people who aren't threatening you. Even if there was a terrorist faction at that mosque, not everyone there would be a threat. Which brings us back to not being to differentiate one from the whole.

Edited for spelling.

[DaisyD]

To restore a little faith in humanity.

http://reverbpress.com/news/phoenix-fil ... ker-rally/

[princessmahina]

I am surprised to hear that the KKK is still around. I thought it was a shameful historical movement that basically had died out.

Unfortunately not. When Obama was elected in 2008, membership to white supremacist groups like the KKK went way up. It's disgraceful.

[doggie]

well he is crying like a dugger who dropped a pickle. he is getting threats his identity has been hacked no one will interview him his gofundme account was killed. poor persecuted bigot. talk about not being able to think 5 seconds ahead.

[DGayle]

This guy wants more than just protection. He expects to make a profit off of it. When we have underfunded schools and empty food banks and access to medical care that won't bankrupt a person is still a challenge, he can go to hell for causing a hate-rally, for all I care. My priority is to see people fed and children educated, not for that man to be protected and profiting. We've got a finite amount of money to do things with. He's low on the priority list.