the Pearl's on "Marriage"

[fundyduddy]

I think I read somewhere a while back that the Pearl's children do not marry "legally", as in with a marriage certificate, but do so only before God through a religious ceremony only. Does anyone know if this is true and could possibly point me to a link? Maybe my brain cut the cheese and I am confusing them with someone else. If so, what is their reason for doing this? Is it some weird fundy anti-government thing?

[bananacat]

I know what you're talking about but I am also not 100% sure it is the Pearls. I think they do it this way to keep the wives trapped, because if they aren't legally married it's just that much harder for them to leave and to get the alimony or settlement that the need to survive. I'm sure they pretend that it's all about their dislike of the government, but it's really just a way to make women even more dependent and have fewer options if they leave. Luckily some states would view this is a common law marriage even if they don't register it, but I don't know what the law is like in the state that the Pearls live in.

[debrand]

it is the pearls and if you give me a second I will find the link

[Witsec6]

I know what you're talking about but I am also not 100% sure it is the Pearls. I think they do it this way to keep the wives trapped, because if they aren't legally married it's just that much harder for them to leave and to get the alimony or settlement that the need to survive. I'm sure they pretend that it's all about their dislike of the government, but it's really just a way to make women even more dependent and have fewer options if they leave. Luckily some states would view this is a common law marriage even if they don't register it, but I don't know what the law is like in the state that the Pearls live in.

I'm sure that's what it's about! I never knew that there were states that didn't acknowledge common law marriages (I'm from Canada).

It's a horrible practice.

[Kitchen Princess]

I'm in the middle of The Handmaid's Tale and I really got creeped out reading this:

~~I think they do it this way to keep the wives trapped, because if they aren't legally married it's just that much harder for them to leave and to get the alimony or settlement that the need to survive. ~~

[Bookworm]

It is the Pearls and the reason they give is because they don't want their speshul, holy marriages contaminated in the slightest bit by the evil government that also marries gay people. But yeah, I also think it's more about trapping the women.

[debrand]

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/ge ... trimony-2/

Until 1545, all marriages in medieval Europe, including Christian marriages, came under the jurisdiction of common law. Holy matrimony occurred when two adults declared themselves to be husband and wife and then consummated the marriage in a one flesh union. Self-declared marriages were recognized as valid, even in the absence of witnesses

.

To receive from the state a license to marry is to acknowledge the state’s authority over marriage. What it licenses, it can un-license. One person can go to that state and have their contract of marriage dissolved. Why? Because the two parties of the divorce signed away their rights to “until death do us part†when they received a state license. The state is not bound by the verbal covenant you made in church. The state, by our consent, has made itself higher than our sworn covenants, higher than the church—higher than the God who ordained marriage. It was not always so. It is now. All praise to the state supreme? I praise them not!

All of my children but one were married by private contract. They did not ask the state for permission to marry. I wrote a one-page covenant for them, something like a private contract, that stated their commitment to enter into holy matrimony according to Biblical precepts, a few of which were enumerated. The contractual part of the wedding consisted of their verbal pledges of marriage and their signing the pledge in front of all present. Parents also signed the pledge, committing to the union, and then siblings and friends signed it as well. In unison, all present pronounced them man and wife by the power vested in us from God. They later took a copy of the document to the courthouse and had it notarized and filed. They have never failed to gain equal status before the law as being legally married.

[ladypuglover]

Oh, I thought this was about the Pearls wanting husbands to beat their wives with plumbing line. I am so not going to go for that. :snooty:

Yes, I remember they won't let their adult children get legally married because then they would be the same as the gays. :roll: I think gay men and women wouldn't want a damn thing to do with the pearls and would be just fine having another thing not in common.

[hoipolloi]

Yes, it's allegedly about teh ebil gays. In reality, this is yet more evidence that Mike & Debi Pearl run a cult, and their nutcase children are full-fledged members.

How's this working out for said kids? Well, their oldest child, Rebekah, "married" Gabriel Anast about 10 years ago. Many threads on the old board, and maybe some here, provide details about Gabe, his refusal to work so that he could sit on his arse at home, studying the Bible, while Rebekah & their now-7 kids are forced to live a hand-to-mouth existence.

Since New Mexico has not recognized common law marriages since 1860 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law ... ted_States), it's not clear what recourse Rebekah has.

[Austin]

Yes, it's allegedly about teh ebil gays. In reality, this is yet more evidence that Mike & Debi Pearl run a cult, and their nutcase children are full-fledged members.

How's this working out for said kids? Well, their oldest child, Rebekah, "married" Gabriel Anast about 10 years ago. Many threads on the old board, and maybe some here, provide details about Gabe, his refusal to work so that he could sit on his arse at home, studying the Bible, while Rebekah & their now-7 kids are forced to live a hand-to-mouth existence.

Since New Mexico has not recognized common law marriages since 1860 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law ... ted_States), it's not clear what recourse Rebekah has.

I wish CNN/Anderson Cooper would have taken a look at the Pearls' adult children. I wonder how that would have played on national TV, especially with Rebekah and her crazy-ass, bone-lazy husband. I think it's a fair question, as the Pearls claim to be parenting experts, and thousands/millions of people have read their books and believe their formula for producing a good result. I think those people (and the rest of us) deserve to know how everything worked out for the Pearl children.

[jockosmom]

I'm sure that's what it's about! I never knew that there were states that didn't acknowledge common law marriages (I'm from Canada).

It's a horrible practice.

I would think this kind of arrangement would fall under common law marriage. In Illinois, you aren't considered a common law marriage solely on the basis of having lived together, but if you put yourselves forward as a married couple to the community - refer to each other as "my husband" or "my wife", the woman uses the man's name, you have joint accounts together - then, after a period of so many years of this you are considered common law. I'm not sure what kind of rights you have under common law marriage, but I would think the woman would have some rights to the finances, especially if there are children from the union.

[hoipolloi]

I would think this kind of arrangement would fall under common law marriage. In Illinois, you aren't considered a common law marriage solely on the basis of having lived together, but if you put yourselves forward as a married couple to the community - refer to each other as "my husband" or "my wife", the woman uses the man's name, you have joint accounts together - then, after a period of so many years of this you are considered common law. I'm not sure what kind of rights you have under common law marriage, but I would think the woman would have some rights to the finances, especially if there are children from the union.

According to this Wikipedia article, common law marriages have not been allowed in Illinois since 1905: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law ... ted_States

[fundyduddy]

thanks for checking on this for me. I could have sworn I'd read it somewhere, but couldn't for the life of me find the link.

[hoipolloi]

I wish CNN/Anderson Cooper would have taken a look at the Pearls' adult children. I wonder how that would have played on national TV, especially with Rebekah and her crazy-ass, bone-lazy husband. I think it's a fair question, as the Pearls claim to be parenting experts, and thousands/millions of people have read their books and believe their formula for producing a good result. I think those people (and the rest of us) deserve to know how everything worked out for the Pearl children.

I'd love to see this kind of follow-up as well. They could focus on the wacked-out Anasts and then mention that the other daughters (don't know about the sons) are also not legally married. Get Mike on camera & ask him if it's better to have state-issued marriage licenses or grandchildren that are bastards with mothers who can't protect them in many ways.

[Guest Anonymous]

Rebekah was living without heat or power last year and claimed she and the kids were running around in circles to keep warm. And yet they have power for computers...

Gabriel gave me the boot on his urban exodus site, cause I advised someone to use a food thermometer to determine safe holding temps for food. I'm tempted to unplug my router and re sign up over there. He's coveting vehicles at the moment...

[gustava]

Any thoughts out there on why the Pearls allow their daughter to live as she does???

[erunerune]

So, based on this quote:

Quote:

"All of my children but one were married by private contract. They did not ask the state for permission to marry. I wrote a one-page covenant for them, something like a private contract, that stated their commitment to enter into holy matrimony according to Biblical precepts, a few of which were enumerated. The contractual part of the wedding consisted of their verbal pledges of marriage and their signing the pledge in front of all present. Parents also signed the pledge, committing to the union, and then siblings and friends signed it as well. In unison, all present pronounced them man and wife by the power vested in us from God. They later took a copy of the document to the courthouse and had it notarized and filed. They have never failed to gain equal status before the law as being legally married"

It seems that what they do does technically qualify as a legal marriage? I mean, the courthouse is not refusing to file it as such, at least (based on the Pearls' account obviously, so no idea about veracity of the claim). I think they like to go about it in their cultish, maverick-y way for whatever made-up reasons they can think of, but if there is a notarized document on file at the (horror!) government offices they are either a) committing fraud or b) are legally married.

I am curious if such a roundabout way of validating one's marriage with the state would actually hold up in court were it to come to that, but if the state is accepting it as such then I would think they are as legally married as anyone who goes about getting a licentse in the normal, non-Pearl fashion.

So curious! :ugeek:

[Guest Anonymous]

Any thoughts out there on why the Pearls allow their daughter to live as she does???

She and Gabe are on an indian reservation. I'm not quite sure how they lied to get there...

I think now that Gabe has dominion over R its all good with BigDaddyP. What I've pieced together R&G get donations to survive and live 'debt' free. But they have all the time in the world (and power) to blog and run forums. At one point I remember her mentioning using old newspaper wrapped in rags as a sanitary pad. I mean WTF??? You can afford a computer and not a friggin kotex?

I also wonder about the daughter they don't speak about, the one that has a noncovenant marriage. Is she the sin in their camp?

Before I came to FJ I really thought I had an unhealthy preoccupation with the world of fundyness. I'd been tracking these rascals since the Duggars were at 15. You folks have opened up a whole new world of obsession for me.

[Daenerys]

If a contract has been drawn up and signed in front of witnesses, it may not be a 'marriage' but it may give her some legal recourse. Depending on what it said (which I would be VERY interested to know) she could sue him for breach of contract and subsequent loss of earnings etc.

[hoipolloi]

I also wonder about the daughter they don't speak about, the one that has a noncovenant marriage. Is she the sin in their camp?

At the time of the youngest daughter's (Shoshanna's) wedding, Mike Pearl wrote the following (nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2004/july/23/the-wedding/):

"None of my daughters or their husbands asked the state of Tennessee for permission to marry. They did not yoke themselves to government. It was a personal, private covenant, binding them together forever—until death."

So, I'm not sure who has the "non-convenant" marriage. Actually, the only daughter/child they haven't mentioned in the past year or more is Rebekah Anast; the other two -- Shalom Brand & Shoshanna Easling -- are regular features in the NGJ magazine, including articles & photos as are the two sons & their families.

The Anasts don't live in MikenDebi-ville, TN, where the other four sibs & their families live but a lack of proximity didn't seem to prevent Gabriel & Rebekah's participation in the NGJ enterprises several years ago.

[erunerune]

If a contract has been drawn up and signed in front of witnesses, it may not be a 'marriage' but it may give her some legal recourse. Depending on what it said (which I would be VERY interested to know) she could sue him for breach of contract and subsequent loss of earnings etc.

I agree with this -- I got married in another country (Jamaica) and I am sure that the marriage is on file somewhere in that country, but it would likely be hard to track down/prove if push came to shove. My husband and I returned to the US from our wedding with a marriage certificate that looks really, really home-made, but it worked fine for changing my name legally (social security card, passport, driver's license, etc.). As far as I know, our marriage is on file nowhere in the US apart from our say-so, yet has the same legal recognition as marriags performed in the states.

So the Pearls basically live in their own country, as far as I can tell. Crazytown.

[Guest Anonymous]

A ketubah is a Jewish marriage contract. Some of these documents can run into pages of property and financial issues. I used mine to successfully argue property issues in my civil divorce.

[debrand]

They have two sons. My bet is that one of the DIL's was unwilling to forgo a legal marriage.