Kristina (of Keepsakes) Starting to Homeschool

[3_and_counting]

Fair enough. I asked because I know a woman who was raised in a conservative, homeschooling home and whose husband left her and came back. She didn't realize she was supposed to ask about STDs and caught one. Anyway I understand why you don't want to talk about your brother.

Completely other topic, but have you found that in the circles you run in, there are a lot of people defending the Duggars? Or are they upset that the Duggars covered up their son molesting small children? I'm actually surprised how many fairly mainstream Christians I know who are acting like it isn't a big deal for parents to cover up their son molesting children.

The Duggars...

Well, I believe that they did what was best for their son and their daughters as far as removing Josh from the home after it continued to happen, getting them professional counseling and setting boundaries in the home so that it would no longer take place. As far as the keeping it secret goes, I see it this way... What Josh did was absolutely wrong and yes, needed to be taken to the authorities, which they did. That officer decided that nothing was going to be done about it...so the family moved on, tried to heal. Everyone has skeletons in their closets that they don't go out advertising. This was something they were trying to move past. to forget about. As Jimbob said in the interview last night, the victims deserve to tell their story in their time. Because it was all in the same family, I do believe that keeping it to a minimum was what was best for those girls. Those girls are who I am thinking about in all of this. THEY shouldn't have had to deal with all of this in this way. I think that not a single person who outed the story for one second thought about those girls.

[formergothardite]

The Duggars...

Well, I believe that they did what was best for their son and their daughters as far as removing Josh from the home after it continued to happen, getting them professional counseling and setting boundaries in the home so that it would no longer take place. As far as the keeping it secret goes, I see it this way... What Josh did was absolutely wrong and yes, needed to be taken to the authorities, which they did. That officer decided that nothing was going to be done about it...so the family moved on, tried to heal. Everyone has skeletons in their closets that they don't go out advertising. This was something they were trying to move past. to forget about. As Jimbob said in the interview last night, the victims deserve to tell their story in their time. Because it was all in the same family, I do believe that keeping it to a minimum was what was best for those girls. Those girls are who I am thinking about in all of this. THEY shouldn't have had to deal with all of this in this way. I don't think not a single person that outed the story for one second thought about those girls.

Are Christians so awful that molesting children and hiding it is a common skeleton they have in their closets? I may be godless, but I don't have anything close to that. And I would be horrified if I discovered any of my godless friends did. I would not be calling it a "mistake" and acting like it is okay to cover up children being molested.

You realize that is all a lie, right? According to the police report, the parents were well aware that Josh was molesting his sisters. They did nothing for a year. They then shipped him off to an IBLP training center to not get counseling, but to instead do hard labor. After three months he is stuck back in the house with his victims, who didn't get any counseling at that time. His church wanted Jim Bob to get Josh real help, but instead he took him to a family friend who was a police officer(this is different than taking him into the police department so that the crime could be treated as a crime) so that the guy could lecture Josh. Several years later as they were getting ready to tape a show for Oprah, she was given evidence that Josh had molested his young sisters and his parents had not properly reported it. OPRAH, was the one who properly reported it, not Jim Bob and Michelle, and then there was a real investigation. Since the SOL was only three years Josh, Jim Bob, and Michelle could not be charged. But they all committed crimes that so many Christians are sort of waving away like it isn't a big deal.

Fundie Christians flocking to defend covering up child molesting all while claiming that children are a blessing makes me :angry-banghead: . It is easy to say children are a blessing, but it is clear that treating them that way is much harder. Practice what you preach.

[formergothardite]

If I got anything wrong in that about the Duggars, someone correct me. I haven't kept up with all the threads but I did read the police reports. I can quote parts of them for you Kristina if you think I am making this up. The Duggars lied and lots of Christians bought into that lie because they want to believe it is a liberal media attack, instead of facing the truth that this family committed horrible crimes and lucked out so they can't be charged for their crimes.

A three year SOL on molesting small children is a ridiculously short amount of time. They should be in jail.

ETA: How dark a crime does a person like the Duggars have to commit before the Christian(not all of course)community stands up and says "This is wrong on every level and we will not support this person anymore."? A 15 year old molesting a five year old isn't enough. His parents covering up the molestation to keep it from being charged isn't enough. How bad does it have to get before they will care? Before this I would think children being molested would be enough, but this shows me that it isn't. So I really do wonder how bad it has to get.

[Tiny Bubbles]

I've read the police reports and formergothardite's summary seems accurate to me. It's too bad that there are less accurate versions starting to circulate.

Welcome, Kristina.

[3_and_counting]

Are Christians so awful that molesting children and hiding it is a common skeleton they have in their closets? I may be godless, but I don't have anything close to that. And I would be horrified if I discovered any of my godless friends did. I would not be calling it a "mistake" and acting like it is okay to cover up children being molested.

You realize that is all a lie, right? According to the police report, the parents were well aware that Josh was molesting his sisters. They did nothing for a year. They then shipped him off to an IBLP training center to not get counseling, but to instead do hard labor. After three months he is stuck back in the house with his victims, who didn't get any counseling at that time. His church wanted Jim Bob to get Josh real help, but instead he took him to a family friend who was a police officer(this is different than taking him into the police department so that the crime could be treated as a crime) so that the guy could lecture Josh. Several years later as they were getting ready to tape a show for Oprah, she was given evidence that Josh had molested his young sisters and his parents had not properly reported it. OPRAH, was the one who properly reported it, not Jim Bob and Michelle, and then there was a real investigation. Since the SOL was only three years Josh, Jim Bob, and Michelle could not be charged. But they all committed crimes that so many Christians are sort of waving away like it isn't a big deal.

Fundie Christians flocking to defend covering up child molesting all while claiming that children are a blessing makes me :angry-banghead: . It is easy to say children are a blessing, but it is clear that treating them that way is much harder. Practice what you preach.

When I said skeletons, I meant the family, not Josh. The family, as in the girls, the parents, they just wanted to heal. I don't at all justify, or make light of what Josh did, he should have had to pay for it IMO. The parents did know, yes...but were trying to take measures to make it stop. They even said that when it first happened they chalked it up to puberty and had a talk with him...as it happened a second time they realized it was a bigger issue. When it continued to happen (over the course of that year) they then removed Josh from the home to get him some help. As I said before, there is no justifying it, it was wrong. I simply just said that I understand Jimbob and Michelle wanting to keep it secretive because of the girls. I have family members who have had things happen and only the family knows what has happened to them because they don't want anyone to know. Why are the Duggars so different than any other victim or victims family?

[Tiny Bubbles]

I just think it's hard to tell if their main interest was ever protecting/helping the girls. With the timing of it all, it appears more like they wanted to protect their television ministry.

[FakePigtails]

Kristina, do you at least understand that if something similar were to happen in your own family, the only correct response is to immediately remove the offender from the home and place them in professional care?

[3_and_counting]

Kristina, do you at least understand that if something similar were to happen in your own family, the only correct response is to immediately remove the offender from the home and place them in professional care?

I would absolutely remove them from the home. I'm not saying that I agree with them keeping Josh in their home when it happened. They should have sent him away with the first offense.

[formergothardite]

When I said skeletons, I meant the family, not Josh. The family, as in the girls, the parents, they just wanted to heal. I don't at all justify, or make light of what Josh did, he should have had to pay for it IMO. The parents did know, yes...but were trying to take measures to make it stop. They even said that when it first happened they chalked it up to puberty and had a talk with him...as it happened a second time they realized it was a bigger issue. When it continued to happen (over the course of that year) they then removed Josh from the home to get him some help. As I said before, there is no justifying it, it was wrong. I simply just said that I understand Jimbob and Michelle wanting to keep it secretive because of the girls. I have family members who have had things happen and only the family knows what has happened to them because they don't want anyone to know. Why are the Duggars so different than any other victim or victims family?

When I said I have nothing in my heathen past that comes close to the Duggars, I wasn't just meaning Josh, I meant Jim Bob and Michelle. They covered up children being molested. Are the Christians you know so awful that this isn't shocking to you? So shocking that you are revolted by this family?

The parents did not get Josh help. They sent him to an IBLP training center to do hard labor for three months. In no world is that treatment for molesting children multiple times. Are you justifying what the Duggar parents did? In your Christian world is it okay to cover up children being abused instead of treating it like a crime and getting immediate REAL help for all involved. Because that is what it sounds like you are saying. That abuse cover up is okay.

This article is wonderful when it comes to explain the hypocrisy of the Duggar family. She is a conservative Christian, just to let you know.

tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2015/05/why-the-duggar-abuse-scandal-matters/

Some of these girls had been sexually abused, some as young as 5. They were taken through a healing process to “forgive†their abuser. And then they were put on a TV show which had as its main premise that this family knows how to instill healthy sexuality into their kids.

It’s quite simple: the Duggar parents should either have been authentic about the abuse or, if they didn’t want to dredge it up publicly (a choice I completely understand and empathize with), then they should have turned down the show. That was their mistake; it was the minimization of the effects of abuse.

[3_and_counting]

When I said I have nothing in my heathen past that comes close to the Duggars, I wasn't just meaning Josh, I meant Jim Bob and Michelle. They covered up children being molested. Are the Christians you know so awful that this isn't shocking to you? So shocking that you are revolted by this family?

The parents did not get Josh help. They sent him to an IBLP training center to do hard labor for three months. In no world is that treatment for molesting children multiple times. Are you justifying what the Duggar parents did? In your Christian world is it okay to cover up children being abused instead of treating it like a crime and getting immediate REAL help for all involved. Because that is what it sounds like you are saying. That abuse cover up is okay.

This article is wonderful when it comes to explain the hypocrisy of the Duggar family. She is a conservative Christian, just to let you know.

tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2015/05/why-the-duggar-abuse-scandal-matters/

Some of these girls had been sexually abused, some as young as 5. They were taken through a healing process to “forgive†their abuser. And then they were put on a TV show which had as its main premise that this family knows how to instill healthy sexuality into their kids.

It’s quite simple: the Duggar parents should either have been authentic about the abuse or, if they didn’t want to dredge it up publicly (a choice I completely understand and empathize with), then they should have turned down the show. That was their mistake; it was the minimization of the effects of abuse.

No, abuse cover up is not okay. I'm not okay with it. I don't agree with the choice they made in not having Josh pay for it somehow. There should have been consequences for it. Personally, he got off way too easy just to work it out for the time from he was away. But as I said, I understand why they chose to keep it so secretive.

As far as the show, I agree...they shouldn't have done it if there were major problems in the family and things that you don't want to get out. I personally have never been major fans of the Duggars. I watched a time or two, but I disagree with them on some isssues.

[formergothardite]

Kristina, do you think the Duggar parents are also getting off too easily? They covered up abuse, didn't get any of their children help, kept it from being treated like a crime, are lying currently to try and spin this to make themselves look good, and when the investigation actually happened, they did not want to cooperate. You are right to think about the girls, but you, at least in your first post on the subject, didn't put the blame where it should be, on the shoulders of Jim Bob and Michelle. If that had not tried to cover this up, legally no one would have been able to access the information. Because of their cover up, this information was easily available if someone knew to look. They couldn't control Josh, but they could control their own actions and their actions eventually led to this being public knowledge. The verse "Be sure your sins will find you out." is very applicable here.

ETA: How are most people you know reacting to this? Do they say things like you said in your first post about this situation? Are they buying into Jim Bob and Michelle's lies without really researching what happened? I spent years as a Christian, but I don't remember people justifying covering up child abuse like I have recently seen among my Christian friends. So many posts about it being a "mistake" and Jim Bob and Michelle did their best and everyone has done bad things in the past, but very little outrage about the abuse of children being hidden to protect the abuser from punishment.

[3_and_counting]

Josh and I are actually the only ones that feels the way we do about it. Everyone else thinks the whole "he was only 14, he was a kid, he made a mistake" thing. Neither of us feel that way. We are more on the side of "he was 14, he knew better".

As far as Jimbob and Michelle go, I do think they are getting it easy. While they were protecting the victims, unfortunately...they were also protecting their offender. There is no win in this situation.

[Palimpsest]

Josh and I are actually the only ones that feels the way we do about it. Everyone else thinks the whole "he was only 14, he was a kid, he made a mistake" thing. Neither of us feel that way. We are more on the side of "he was 14, he knew better".

As far as Jimbob and Michelle go, I do think they are getting it easy. While they were protecting the victims, unfortunately...they were also protecting their offender. There is no win in this situation.

And this is why I feel hope for you and your Josh Carter. Apparently you do see that what the Duggars did was wrong - grudgingly as you put it.

But then you asked, "why are the Duggars different from other families?"

Oh, Kristina! Obviously the Duggars are different from other families because they got themselves on TV as perfect "Christian" parents and touted their parenting as the Christian way to go. With this sin and crime in their background. That is sick. And even more very sick that you are even asking this.

Here at FJ we watch many families who subscribe to very bad perverted "Christian" beliefs. We have watched and commented on families who tout Christian Fundamentalist beliefs in "discipline" as an excuse to beat their children to death.

We watch so-called Christian families and so-called Christian churches defend the perpetrators and vilify the victims ALL THE TIME! The Duggars are hardly unique in this perversion of Christianity and their refusal to accept secular help..

You think we are "obsessed" with you. Really, not so much. I worry do about you and your children. I worry about Sis. Julie and Jessica too, but think you are right not to comment on them.

Speaking for myself alone, I am far more worried about the evil that I see perpetrated in the name of the "Christian God." That goes way beyond you and your kids. Or your family. Or the Duggars. I look at the big picture.

Can you perhaps get over your self-involvement and FJ persecution complex for a minute and look at a few other threads on FJ?

Quite recent threads: Look at Recovering Grace. Look at Lourdes. At Karen. At the Stanleys. At the Jeubs. Read Spiritual Sounding Board and surf Patheos. Look at the multiple "Christian" leaders who are going down in flames. Look at the evils perpetrated in the name of your religion.

Then talk to your hubby, Josh Carter, to get clearance if you must, and get back to us with something less self-focused. I'd be interested in your/Josh's thoughtful as opposed to knee-jerk opinions.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Genuine question, I have one baby. How on earth do you have time to homeschool as well as look after the younger ones?

Maybe I just don't manage my time well (I am sitting down while he's napping for a little break!) but between swimming, baby Ryme time, gymbaroo and museum kids and play dates...my day is full. I honestly wouldn't have the time to homeschool as well as parent my baby in the enriched environment we are trying to ensure for him.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Oh and we have a cleaner every 2 weeks and a nanny once a week so I can stay on top of things and get a little me time. Seriously, how do you run your household as well?? I just don't get it.

[LilMissMetaphor]

How the heck does an almost-5-year-old not know all their numbers and the ABCs?! :angry-banghead: I don't want to sound like the obnoxious mom that brags about her kids, but man! My son is a year older than she is (362 days to be exact) and has already been reading for over a year (books like the "Frog and Toad" series, the Thornton Burgess animal books, Elsa Beskow, various kids' science books and this old set of "Young Explorers" books that National Geographic put out in the 70s) and we're about to start doing 2-digit addition and subtraction problems. How does Kloughweeigh not know things my son knew when he was 2??? :pink-shock:

I agree she's way behind. My son is two months older than Kloe. He does single-digit addition and subtraction, reads at a level 2 (https://icanread.com/levels), and comes home from JK talking about rectangular prisms and dodecahedrons.

Still has a hard time with his jacket zipper and pronouncing his Rs properly though, so, there's that.

[Letgo]

I agree she's way behind. My son is two months older than Kloe. He does single-digit addition and subtraction, reads at a level 2 (https://icanread.com/levels), and comes home from JK talking about rectangular prisms and dodecahedrons.

Still has a hard time with his jacket zipper and pronouncing his Rs properly though, so, there's that.

Wow! I completely disagree that Kloe is behind. My kids started kindergarten at 6 because of having late summer and September birthdays. None of them could read before kindergarten and none could really even write his or her name very well. I don't think they could recognize all the letters and they certainly didn't know the sounds. They did know colors and shapes. I think they recognized the numbers 1-10, but not much more than that. One could barely count to 20. That child ended up with the lowest high school GPA of my three children, a 3.7. The other two were valedictorians, in the talented and gifted program, and took AP courses. They all graduated from college in four years or less. My point is that some children are just not ready or interested in "academics" at very young ages. Mine weren't and I didn't push it. They turned out just fine. They loved school, really enjoyed learning, and took off academically when they were ready.

[formergothardite]

Josh and I are actually the only ones that feels the way we do about it. Everyone else thinks the whole "he was only 14, he was a kid, he made a mistake" thing. Neither of us feel that way. We are more on the side of "he was 14, he knew better".

As far as Jimbob and Michelle go, I do think they are getting it easy. While they were protecting the victims, unfortunately...they were also protecting their offender. There is no win in this situation.

Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder why so many Christians flock to defend the Duggars. Do you have any idea? I don't think that these same people who are calling it a "mistake" and saying the parents are in the right would do that if it wasn't a conservative Christian family. My feeling is that the people defending them are so wrapped up in the Duggars as being a "good Christian family" that they don't want to admit that "good Christian families" commit horrible crimes and cover them up. You and Josh can see it, but there are so many people who are turning a blind eye to children being abused just because this family says all the "right" things.

I disagree that the Duggar parents were protecting the victims. From what I remember reading, someone correct me if I'm getting stuff wrong, the Duggar parents committed a crime too and if the SOL had been a couple years longer they would be facing jail time. I don't know their true intentions, but their actions put their daughters in more danger, it didn't protect them at all. It seems to me that Jim Bob and Michelle were looking out for themselves, not their kids. Wasn't Jim Bob running for office at this time and one of the things he said was that incest should be a capital crime? It would have made him look really bad and ruined any chance of him winning anything ever again if it had come out at that moment that his own son was molesting his young sisters.

[Tiny Bubbles]

The Duggars even back then were protecting their image and their brand at the expense of both Josh and his sisters. They had a shot at some real $$ through TLC and saw it about to slip thru their fingers when they learned about Josh's behavior.

I'm curious as to why, knowing their worldview as Christians, did they not understand this to be a test from their God? Why didn't they think "God is challenging us to see if we do the right thing", and turn away for a while from $$ and celebrity and take care of their family? The whole idea that someone can interpret God's will is inherently flawed, right?

Also, they may have been forced by the Arkansas FINA request to participate in treatment, but they certainly remain silent on all of that. There is surely more to this.

[fun2beme]

I'm not sure if this wanders too far off-topic but my question, as a non-parent, is what lengths do you go to in protecting your children, regardless of what they do? I am by no means excusing how JB & Michelle acted (it sickens me) but am genuinely curious as to how most parents would react if they found out their child did something wrong/criminal. I'm not referring to the Duggars specifically since their children included the victims and the offender, but in families where the victims are outside the family.

I recently read a book in which a father covered up a hit-and-run for his son. It was fiction but it made me wonder about the boundaries of what people will do for their children. There are some news stories about family members turning each other in (i.e., Unibomber) but most often, we see families in denial, like the mothers who wail "he's a good boy, he'd never hurt anyone" when their son was caught on tape beating someone.

Kristina - I hope you realize that the majority of the people here genuinely wish you well. I also made the comment about STDs for the same reasons as formergothardite, not to insinuate she's not intelligent but I grew up in a very conservative household and was shocked when I was in my 20s and realized how little I knew about sex. Best of luck.

[Joyleaf]

[tm][/tm]

What I hope to accomplish is being able to spend more quality time with my kids a little longer and, I can teach them up to a certain point. I don't see any reason why I shouldn't teach them if I am capable of doing so. I know when I will no longer be able. Believe me, my kids will get their education, and I want to take part in that even if it's just for a little while.

More quality time? But at what cost for your kids?

You'll send them to school later, at a time when they'll have more trouble fitting in, at a time when the others already know each other for years and have found friends, at a time when the others have already settled in in the school environment and feel (for the most part) comfortable there and know their way around. This extra quality time for you will just make things harder for your kids.

And meeting a few other kids two times at week in their free time now won't help them with that nor dos it equal the experience of going to school - it doesn't replace going to school with their peers in any way.

[Childless]

The Duggars should have never agreed to be on tv because its wrong to pimp out your kids' private lives for money. That they had skeletons in their closet is beside the point. I think they're horrible parents for shoving their kids into the limelight without their consent and denying them the privacy they deserve.

[Buzzard]

Josh and I are actually the only ones that feels the way we do about it. Everyone else thinks the whole "he was only 14, he was a kid, he made a mistake" thing. Neither of us feel that way. We are more on the side of "he was 14, he knew better".

As far as Jimbob and Michelle go, I do think they are getting it easy. While they were protecting the victims, unfortunately...they were also protecting their offender. There is no win in this situation.

But thats just it, they werent protecting the victims. They allowed an abuser who had gone so far as to defeat their 'safeguards" to run amok in the home.

Let say this isnt a sex crime, lets say its a burglary. The first time a 14 year old comes to you and says "mom, I broke into the neighbors house. The back door was open and I looked around but didnt take anything." What do you do?

How about the second time? The third time?

I would argue that there should be no second time. Burglary, like molestation, is a crime. Is it a sin? Yup, but thats really not relevant. It is the job of a parent to protect all of their children and prevent all forms of harm to them.

Sitting a kid down at the kitchen table and saying "dont break into houses" is ludicrous. The child knows breaking into houses is wrong. Why is having the same conversation about molesting your sleeping sisters any better? Its not, and it only happened because Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar are all about Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar. This had nothing to do with the children.

[linnea27]

Wow! I completely disagree that Kloe is behind. My kids started kindergarten at 6 because of having late summer and September birthdays. None of them could read before kindergarten and none could really even write his or her name very well. I don't think they could recognize all the letters and they certainly didn't know the sounds. They did know colors and shapes. I think they recognized the numbers 1-10, but not much more than that. One could barely count to 20. That child ended up with the lowest high school GPA of my three children, a 3.7. The other two were valedictorians, in the talented and gifted program, and took AP courses. They all graduated from college in four years or less. My point is that some children are just not ready or interested in "academics" at very young ages. Mine weren't and I didn't push it. They turned out just fine. They loved school, really enjoyed learning, and took off academically when they were ready.

Completely agree. My son started kindergarten on time. He did not know how to read. He knew the alphabet and could multiply and divide but this wasn't anything we taught him, he just has a head for numbers (he couldn't do it on paper but if we have him a verbal word problem he could spit out a number almost instantly). He is in grade 1 now in a French Immersion school in a very privileged area where all of his peers' parents are doctors or lawyers or professors. Every time I see his teacher she tells me "he is so bright. SO bright" but he doesn't have a strong academic bent. He can speak French apparently better than amyone in the class and whip through his math assignments in seconds but is, and has always been, more interested in playing (and, to his teacher's dismay, distracting other kids once he is done his work) than he is learning new things, especially anything that comes from a book.

I am not a leg-humper. But to state that Kloe is behind and that may be Kristina's fault is silly, imho. I am not defending Kristina's right to homeschool as much as I am speaking out against 'mommy wars.' Kids are all different and to walk around saying "my kid did xyz and if your kid isn't then you didn't do enough to support them" chaps my ass like nothing else. A four-year-old's primary job should be playing and exploring the world around them, not being pressured to read or count to 50.

http://www.rif.org/us/literacy-resource ... ge-six.htm

[ILoveJellybeans]

In some countries, they don't even start teaching kids to read and write until they are 7, and they catch up as they can learn it quicker at that age. Reading and writing by the age of five isn't important and isn't a sign that you will have really bad grades for the rest of your school life.