Abigail's New Blog

[FoxyMoxie]

Yeah Carmelites are really focused on prayer and have a more mystic slant - so most third order Carmelites are single clergy or others that couldn't live in a community. It's something I've considered but it's not something I'd do if I had a house full of kids, there'd be no time for the level of committment you're expected to do.

It's not like a way of making yourself look fancy but not doing it, it's more like being a dispersed (ie not in a community) monk or nun. There are actual rules to follow and meetings to attend.

Edited to add that most religious orders (eg Franciscan, Jesuit, Carmelite, Augustinian etc etc) have a third order or lay membership. The intensity varies depending on the order, but generally it's a way for people who can't join a community for whatever reason to have a rule of life to follow outside the community - it's something the orders have come up with. However Abigail as usual makes it looks ridiculous.

I'm coming from an Anglican perspective (we don't have Jesuits but we have most orders that the RCC has) but it works the same as in the RCC.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Isn't she the one who compared being sent to daycare with being orphaned or abandoned?

Yup, that's her. She has to make Stay at home motherhood seem superior to anything her mother gave her in order to justify her lifestyle.

[anjulibai]

Yeah Carmelites are really focused on prayer and have a more mystic slant - so most third order Carmelites are single clergy or others that couldn't live in a community. It's something I've considered but it's not something I'd do if I had a house full of kids, there'd be no time for the level of committment you're expected to do.

It's not like a way of making yourself look fancy but not doing it, it's more like being a dispersed (ie not in a community) monk or nun. There are actual rules to follow and meetings to attend.

Edited to add that most religious orders (eg Franciscan, Jesuit, Carmelite, Augustinian etc etc) have a third order or lay membership. The intensity varies depending on the order, but generally it's a way for people who can't join a community for whatever reason to have a rule of life to follow outside the community - it's something the orders have come up with. However Abigail as usual makes it looks ridiculous.

I'm coming from an Anglican perspective (we don't have Jesuits but we have most orders that the RCC has) but it works the same as in the RCC.

I don't think Abigail makes it look ridiculous - I think she makes herself look ridiculous by talking about it so much but not completely following through.

[luv2run]

Yeah Carmelites are really focused on prayer and have a more mystic slant - so most third order Carmelites are single clergy or others that couldn't live in a community. It's something I've considered but it's not something I'd do if I had a house full of kids, there'd be no time for the level of committment you're expected to do.

It's not like a way of making yourself look fancy but not doing it, it's more like being a dispersed (ie not in a community) monk or nun. There are actual rules to follow and meetings to attend.

Edited to add that most religious orders (eg Franciscan, Jesuit, Carmelite, Augustinian etc etc) have a third order or lay membership. The intensity varies depending on the order, but generally it's a way for people who can't join a community for whatever reason to have a rule of life to follow outside the community - it's something the orders have come up with. However Abigail as usual makes it looks ridiculous.

I'm coming from an Anglican perspective (we don't have Jesuits but we have most orders that the RCC has) but it works the same as in the RCC.

I am a Secular Carmelite. I started my formation with Jon and Abigail. We were in the same community and the same classes for a few years. We made our Temporary Promises together.

It's not terribly difficult to be a Secular Carmelite and raise a family. I have six children as well, and will be making my Final Promise soon. You just have to make time for it, and make sure it doesn't keep you from your family too much. I do my prayers before my kids get up, for the most part. I make Community meetings, and have only missed if I'm sick or had a baby (had two while in Advanced Formation). The big thing that is stressed when considering becoming a OCDS is community. To be a part of it, and not just join and then bolt. Or only come when you want. Or to prayfully discern that this IS something God is calling you to, and that you can commit to.

The Constitutions have changed a bit since I started, but I know that they are stressing attendance. And that if you don't make it, or don't contact anyone as to why you can't come, then they will want to talk with you and see what they can do to help. They are pretty reasonable, I feel. They've had a lot of people come in, go through formation, make their Final Promise, then never show up again. They want to avoid that. Being a Secular Carmelite is not the same as our brothers and sisters in the convent or monastery. We are not called to take up Carmel on our own and just call ourselves Secular Carmelites. We are to use the gifts we've been given in our prayer life and those through our community and serve others. It's not us sitting on a hilltop, in silence, and telling everyone else to go away so we can contemplate God (although that's tempting when my two year old throws a fit). It's the mystical theology of the Carmelite order, adapted to our life in the world, through prayer and apostolic activity. For those of us who are raising families, the Order is more than fair to us not taking up an additional outside apostolate. They've encouraged me to bring my nursing infant on our annual retreats. Giving me a wonderfully large bedroom (weekend retreat) so that I can nurse my baby, or pump when I was still nursing but didn't bring her. The seminarians even moved their beer from the fridge so I could store my milk! (that was weird/funny all at the same time).

I don't know what the situation was with Jon and Abigail, but they disappeared for a long time. I moved communities a year after our Temporary Promise, only because it was a new community closer to me, and they meet at a better time for my husband. Who watches our kids. So I go when it's best for him. I know when we were all still in the same community, the commute was an issue for them. They usually had to bring all of their kids. We met in MD and they had moved to WV. I only heard through mutual friends after that they ended up in a new community somewhere else in MD that was closer to them.

So, sometimes when I hear about what's she's said about her journey in Carmel, I have to wonder if they called her and her husband out of their attendance. I know they have with others, so I'm sure that didn't go over well.

[FoxyMoxie]

In the UK there is just the one Anglican Carmelite order (along with a Cistercian men's order and a Cistercian-influenced women's order) so it is possibly more...concentrated here? Does that make sense? We have the Single Consecrated Life (equivalent to RC Consecrated Virgins but they just have to be single and can be divorced or widowed) but mostly third order groups seem to be akin to solitaries. Thanks for sharing your experiences - I don't know if it is the same for RC Carmelites here.

Anjulibai - sorry, you're right!

[anjulibai]

I am a Secular Carmelite. I started my formation with Jon and Abigail. We were in the same community and the same classes for a few years. We made our Temporary Promises together.

It's not terribly difficult to be a Secular Carmelite and raise a family. I have six children as well, and will be making my Final Promise soon. You just have to make time for it, and make sure it doesn't keep you from your family too much. I do my prayers before my kids get up, for the most part. I make Community meetings, and have only missed if I'm sick or had a baby (had two while in Advanced Formation). The big thing that is stressed when considering becoming a OCDS is community. To be a part of it, and not just join and then bolt. Or only come when you want. Or to prayfully discern that this IS something God is calling you to, and that you can commit to.

The Constitutions have changed a bit since I started, but I know that they are stressing attendance. And that if you don't make it, or don't contact anyone as to why you can't come, then they will want to talk with you and see what they can do to help. They are pretty reasonable, I feel. They've had a lot of people come in, go through formation, make their Final Promise, then never show up again. They want to avoid that. Being a Secular Carmelite is not the same as our brothers and sisters in the convent or monastery. We are not called to take up Carmel on our own and just call ourselves Secular Carmelites. We are to use the gifts we've been given in our prayer life and those through our community and serve others. It's not us sitting on a hilltop, in silence, and telling everyone else to go away so we can contemplate God (although that's tempting when my two year old throws a fit). It's the mystical theology of the Carmelite order, adapted to our life in the world, through prayer and apostolic activity. For those of us who are raising families, the Order is more than fair to us not taking up an additional outside apostolate. They've encouraged me to bring my nursing infant on our annual retreats. Giving me a wonderfully large bedroom (weekend retreat) so that I can nurse my baby, or pump when I was still nursing but didn't bring her. The seminarians even moved their beer from the fridge so I could store my milk! (that was weird/funny all at the same time).

I don't know what the situation was with Jon and Abigail, but they disappeared for a long time. I moved communities a year after our Temporary Promise, only because it was a new community closer to me, and they meet at a better time for my husband. Who watches our kids. So I go when it's best for him. I know when we were all still in the same community, the commute was an issue for them. They usually had to bring all of their kids. We met in MD and they had moved to WV. I only heard through mutual friends after that they ended up in a new community somewhere else in MD that was closer to them.

So, sometimes when I hear about what's she's said about her journey in Carmel, I have to wonder if they called her and her husband out of their attendance. I know they have with others, so I'm sure that didn't go over well.

Oh my goodness, an insider! Thanks for sharing the info, both about Abigail and the Carmelite Order.

[nausicaa]

So, necro-ing this thread to mention that according to her blog, Abigail is taking the bar in July to open an environmental law practice. 

Except, I thought that God told her to be an SAHM while her kids were young? And she might want to study up on correct capitalization before writing that bar essay. 

She started recycling seven months ago. So now she's an environmental activist and has run three environmental conferences. 

And as of January, she's still writing her novel. She creates memes for her own quotes. 

Her mom gave her a $200 Water Distiller from Amazon as a Christmas present. She knows poverty. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

23 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Her mom gave her a $200 Water Distiller from Amazon as a Christmas present. She knows poverty. 

The poverty. It looms large in Abigail's Alcove. She's even shopped at thrift stores, lived in apartments, and been car-less by choice.